From owner-cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sun Mar 1 15:31:51 1998 Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 15:17:18 -0600 From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V2 #237 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Content-Length: 23635 X-Lines: 618 Status: RO Cdn-Firearms Digest Sunday, March 1 1998 Volume 02 : Number 237 In this issue: Re: We are (or at least I) are being watched Labeled Treasonous? Re: Paladin AT&T C-7 accuracy Fwd: Warning!!! Be carefull to answer ads for "gun wanted" Firearm Publications Moving to Calgary Alberta Message from the moderator Glentel Re: FAL Sunday morning... Re: AT&T Canada C-68 ---Very confusing Flaming nuances credit cards Simon Jester If you want peace you have to be ready for war. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 23:17:43 -0600 From: rmcreat@istar.ca (BC NFA) Subject: Re: We are (or at least I) are being watched >There have been several posts lately on the subject of banned books. I >do not know about banned books, but I do know that in this post 1984 >world, the powers that be do pay attention to what we read. (snip) >Many years ago I subscribed to an English magazine called Combat and >Survival. (about 10 years ago, for one year). > >The SIU had a copy of the Visa receipt for the subscription payment. > >>>From this there are several conclusions you can draw: > > - Visa gives out confidential information (snip) >Malcolm Indeed they do; openly and with your blessing according to the contract. The card belongs to Visa. As stated in the contract you sign (or just by using the card), the transferance of information by the use of this card belongs to the owner of the card. This is the same with every other card issuer whether it be Visa or Zellers or whoever. The selling of information is a very profitable secondary industry. I say again, I wonder what really got Eaton's out of the jam they were in? Michelle Traver NFA-BC SSAC ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 23:17:48 -0600 From: Mkhughe Subject: Labeled Treasonous? Peter Cronhelm wrote; Thats a laugh considering that lots of people in Quebec are openly advocating separation. What does one have to do in Canada to be labeled treasonous? Dare I say it? Be a Firearms owner likely, we seem to be the only "group" openly demonized in this country! I feel like a goat and I _do_ want to escape ;-) Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 23:17:41 -0600 From: rmcreat@istar.ca (BC NFA) Subject: Re: Paladin >Interesting to read the stuff about Palladin.Has anyone had problems with >customs when dealing with NIC Lawenforcement Supplys? Books of interest are >their auto-conversion manuals. Pretty much the same, many are the same titles that you find in Paladin and Delta. Michelle Traver NFA-BC SSAC ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 23:17:48 -0600 From: sparkplug@adss.on.ca Subject: AT&T Howdy; It would seem that some of our favourite Con-Lib "banks" (prob still on the RFC list) are in bed with Ms Innes of AT&T on this one. Looks like we might have a multi-bird stone within our grasp. There are no alternative banks (except, perhaps the new Aboriginal one) but there are alternative long distance providers. Spoke with her the other day and she read the same prepared statement that is appearing here. Hmmmmmmmmmmm Rick Hardy NFA Regional Coordinator "Actively Resisting Social Re-engineering in Upper Canada" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 23:17:49 -0600 From: JBachyn797 Subject: C-7 accuracy As a military competitive rifle shooter I find it somewhat strange that some people on this list consider the C-7 to be inaccurate. For the record, the C-7 is the most accurate service rifle that the Canadian military has ever used. I will not make any claims about it being the best service rifle in the world, but as far as practical accuracy is concerned, there are very few better rifles. Using off the rack, issued rifles with issued ammo, military shooters expect to be able to group 2MOA or better. Service rifle matches require shooters to hold at least this to score HPS and there are no shortages of perfect scores to be had. For those Albertans on the list, you can see this first hand in Edmonton this summer, as the Garrison Shooting club will be hosting the APRA service rifle matches. Exact dates will be anounced once finalized. Civilian competitors will be welcome. J Bachynsky ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 23:17:36 -0600 From: "=^..^=" Subject: Fwd: Warning!!! Be carefull to answer ads for "gun wanted" Date: Thu, 26 Feb 98 17:59:43 PST From: Norm Frei Subject: Warning!!! Be carefull answering ads for "gun wanted" Curt wrote: >>>>>>>> sniped>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm 15, so I don't think that I'd be granted a permit... again, "any way" around that? I'd be willing to toss in an extra couple hundred if we could work something out....>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Believe me folks when I say that this scenario is by no means out of the norm. SSAC has at least one a day coming in with the same kind of story, even though there is video and audio surveillance in store. I personally asked a couple of the people; "Are you not afraid that I would turn you in because what you are proposing to me is a conspiracy to commit a crime", by law I am obliged to report it to the proper authority ASAP. In both cases they just shrugged their shoulders and said SO WHAT !, If I got busted, I would be on the street in an hour anyway so who gives a S*^T. So much for the Liberals great crime control ! Rod. Focus :"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms. . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." --Thomas Jefferson's-- 1774. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 23:21:39 -0600 From: SharpshotX Subject: Firearm Publications At my last visit to my local 7-11 (Surrey B.C), I noticed that they had no magazines relating to firearms, or shooting sports (other than one issue of Field & Stream). I did notice that they had plenty issues of: Hustler, PlayBoy, High Times (a pro-marijuana publication), and many other senseless rags. I asked politely why they did not sell G&A, Shooting Times, etc., and they replied that their supplier did not stock these particular books because of a "violence issue". A half block down the street, my neighbourhood Safeway's magazine rack was also absent of these mags. The Customer Service clerk told me that it was not Safeways policy to sell publications which endorsed violence or weapons. Possibly it was my menacing appearance, ( 5'10"/ 160/ black jacket with a Glock patch embroidered on the breast), or maybe it was a major case firearm retardation. If anyone else on the digest, who lives in a big city has experienced similar censorship, let me know! "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud General Introduction to Psychoanalyisis. Safe Shootin Mark P ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 23:22:10 -0600 From: Wardrop Subject: Moving to Calgary Alberta There is a good chance I will be moving to Calgary this summer and need info on shooting ranges (handgun and long gun/indoor and outdoor) and hunting opportunities. In doing my research on what its like to live in Calgary, I have not been able to find a single shred of information, or contact, on shooting or hunting in the area in any of the usual 'moving to ...', tourism literature, newspapers etc. I had kinda hoped that one of the plusses of moving to Reform country -- beyond my vote counting for something -- was that this sort of thing would be everyday, or at least get an honorable mention somewhere. If anyone can help me get started on the right foot contact me by e-mail. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 00:00:52 -0600 From: taylor_buckner@sympatico.ca Subject: Message from the moderator The number of submissions to the CFD is now approaching 100 per day. In order to keep from inundating readers with this volume of e-mail I have had to start being a bit more selective in the items posted to the Digest. One example: Everyone who wrote to AT&T got the same response from AT&T. I only forwarded the first one, not the next five, to the Digest. Another example: Replies which do not add anything substantive clutter up the Digest. When someone sends a posting that quotes 20 lines of a previous posting, and then says the equivalent of "right on" or "I agree" it will not be forwarded. A third example: It is acceptable to let the readers know -once- that you have an item for sale or are in a specific business. Postings containing repeat promotions of a business will not be forwarded to the Digest. I have been deleting signature blocks when they are excessively long, especially if the poster has sent several posts the same day. As a general rule of thumb, signature blocks that are longer than the submission will be deleted. It would help if they were not included in the first place. Nifty quotes in signature blocks will be left alone once or twice, after that they will be deleted as everyone has read them. PLEASE, avoid sending in "Quoted Printable," HTML, or base-64. Submissions in these formats cannot be read by many subscribers, and they take an excessive amount of time to clean. For first time posters: Please do not use the "reply" function of your e-mail program. This has the effect of sending the entire Digest back to me. Sometimes, after a lot of searching, I can find the new posting and edit out the rest of the Digest, sometimes I can't find it. Rather, send a "new" message to "copy" the sentence or two you are referring to and "paste" it in your "new" message, then add your comment. Finally, please do not insult or put-down other posters. One may certainly disagree with ideas, but flame wars will not be tolerated. If a poster attacks another the other will be allowed one reply - that's it. No third party flames, no counter-replies. This is an information Digest, not a venue for word-slingers. Thank you all for your cooperation, interest, and submissions. Sincerely, Taylor Buckner, Moderator, Canadian Firearms Digest E-mail Research Papers ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 06:46:06 -0600 From: Jim Davies Subject: Glentel On Fri, 27 Feb 1998, Cdn-Firearms Digest wrote: > The N.F.A. has a partnership with Glentel. According to my info, the > N.F.A. gets a 3% rebate on all money you spend on Glentel long > distance. If you pay $50 for long distance calls, the N.F.A. gets > $1.50. It may not sound like much, but it adds up. If only 1000 > members switched to Glentel, the N.F.A. could see $900 per month (if > the members each spent an average of $30 per month on LD). [snip] How about some info for those who may already have a Glentel account, but wish to point it towards the NFA? Jim Davies ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 08:16:29 -0600 From: "David A. Tomlinson, NFA" Subject: Re: FAL >A friend wants to know if this can be imported into Canada? >STG Austrian FAL Kit: $165 (includes all parts except receiver) Apparently yes. Will send copy of Customs letter confirming that interpretation Monday to the snailmail address you gave. >>L1A1 Reciever (metric) $209.95 L1A1 receivers are NOT metric. They are all inch. Apparently no. The situation of the FN FAL rifle is incredibly complex, and it is affected by several overlapping and contradictory laws and Orders in Council. The "receiver" IS the firearm, while no other part IS a "firearm" under Canadian law. Dave Tomlinson, NFA ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 08:17:01 -0600 From: "David A. Tomlinson, NFA" Subject: Sunday morning... 4:22 AM -- Small cat begins the wakeup process -- mewing, followed by digging, followed by blissful happiness as she kneads my bared shoulder. 5:00 AM -- Up, washed, cat fed breakfast, at work on email with coffee and peanut-buttered croissant. 36 messages to deal with -- since 10:00 PM last night. AAUUuuuughhh! Legal information, political information, technical information... 6:30 AM -- Emails all dealt with, list of NFA publications and addresses to mail them to compiled, new postings to CFD completed, time to enter next stage. Now to get dressed, load car, and head out for Calgary to deliver a talk to the APRA -- a rifle association -- and confer with other interested Calgarians. This is the third weekend in a row where I am away on NFA business -- and my wife is getting fed up with it -- again. Still? Does anybody want this job? There is no pay, but it does give excellent ways to strain your marriage, tire you out, and enjoy the stress of being in the forefront of a major, long-term battle with the federal government. Dave Tomlinson, NFA FOCUS: Victory, dammit, VICTORY! Nothing less is acceptable. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 13:40:57 -0600 From: Ross K Anderson Subject: Re: AT&T > > It would seem that some of our favourite Con-Lib "banks" (prob still > on the RFC list) are in bed with Ms Innes of AT&T on this one. > Looks like we might have a multi-bird stone within our grasp. In competition with the banks are credit unions. I questioned one such credit union here in Vancouver and got the following response: ********** Thank you for your question regarding Citizens Bank of Canada. Citizens Bank of Canada has no financial/promotional involvement in any political party at any level. Should you have any further questions please call us toll free, 24 hours a day at 1-888-708-7800. Sincerely, Stephen Midgley Internet and Product Manager Citizens Bank of Canada ***************** - -- Ross K Anderson Delta BC ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 13:45:15 -0600 From: mtoma Subject: Canada It is not often I praise Canada as a great place to be. It is when you consider what is available in the 3rd world. I would also be first to agree that politically when it comes to property rights, (gun rights) and invasions of privacy, we are fast spirling downwards to a 3rd world tyranny. That fight to preserve what we have is not over yet. We currently have the gun bans of England and Australia fresh in our minds. If the members of the gun culture in Canada roll over on any ban coming to this country, we are lost. That must not happen. Registration must not happen. On the political front we must put Reform in Government. Subversively we must openly defy C68 and all attempts to register firearms. Compliance with a bad law is a legal issue (imaginary) not a moral issue. Cheers Mike Toma ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 13:45:18 -0600 From: Karl Schrader Subject: C-68 ---Very confusing Did everybody copy and print the analysis by David Tomlinson in CFD # 226 re. "Transfer of a firearm under C-68" ?? ================================================= Has everybody who has a liberal MP written to that MP, told him/her, that he is totally confused , has enclosed the above analysis and ask for clarification ?? Since we all have to follow the letter of the law, that letter of the law should make at least some sense. If we do not inform our MP's about what they voted for without reading it, nobody will !! ================================================ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 22:30:01 -0600 From: BChow2or81 Subject: Flaming nuances It suddenly occurred to me, after reading the recent flaming exchanges, that - in the words of the Lord High Everything Else in "Mikado" - you are right and he is right and everyone is right........ I respectfully suggest that no harm was meant on either side, and that the misunderstandings can be blamed on the very difficult nuances of English grammar and spelling. As in the recent exchange, the difference between a singular and a plural can be a slip of the finger or brain, and not a deliberate barb. Even for native Anglophones, English is one the hardest languages to master and most of us never really do. We should therefore ask to have clarification of anything which seems offensive at first glance, if it still does after re- reading it a few times. (Unless of course it originated at the XXX or the YYY which we all know are NOT our friends!) If we think a correspondent is NOT a native Anglophone, we should be even more careful. They have a very tough time with English and it's amazing so many do as well as they do! Just my Looney's worth. Bud ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 11:35:14 -0600 From: mtoma Subject: credit cards If you keep your credit card maxed out or nearly so, buying gun related stuff of course, thieves will not be able to use it should they get a hold of it. Mike Toma [Moderator: That sounds a lot like the Liberal's policy of keeping the national debt so large that if any other party gets ahold of the government they won't be able to use it. HTB] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 15:17:05 -0600 From: Ron McCutcheon Subject: Simon Jester >I heard Simon Jester was present during one of the "rah - rah - rah" >sessions this group was having. In order to be any use, Simon has to keep his head down. Ron McCutcheon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 15:17:13 -0600 From: Alan Harper Subject: If you want peace you have to be ready for war. I just read a posting that made me see red, Lieberal red. - -Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 23:27:13 -0600 - -From: Joseph Lockhart - -Subject: Prime Minister Jean Chretien in Winnipeg - -On Friday the 13th, Prime Minister Jean Chretien made a comment in front - -of school student here in Winnipeg. When he was challenged by eight youths - -carrying anti-war placards he stated: - -"If you want peace you have to be ready for war." - -"The best way to have peace is to make everybody respect the United Nations." - -Now, do you understand the implications of that last - -statement? 'MAKE' everybody respect the United Nations? - -When the RCMP comes to get your guns, you'll know who gave the orders. I agree with Mr. Lockhart. You don't 'MAKE' someone respect a third party. Respect has to be earned, and it only goes to the party who earned it. I think FearlessLeader should read the dictionary. How about that first statement, though. "If you want peace you have to be ready for war." That is an exact translation of my sig file statement, "Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum". Hey, FearlessLeader, are you reading my mail? Actually, it a very old and famous quote. I have traced it as far back as Appius Claudius the Blind, who quoted it in the Roman Senate in 281 BC. It undoubtedly goes back far into pre-history, because it is a common sense evaluation of human nature. If a nation is prepared to fight (equipped, trained & willing), it would be foolish to attack that nation. The Nazis decided not to fight Switzerland for that very reason. (Also, the 9mm Parabellum cartridge got its name from that quote.) Let's look at the peace movement in the 30's. It was world wide and much bigger than the movement in the 60's. The various governments of the world decided to use it to disarm their citizens. It's called GUN CONTROL. Norway had full registration of all firearms. The Nazis walked into the offices of the central registry, gathered all the files, then gathered all the guns in private hands. Result: minimal resistance from the conquered people. Denmark had full registration of all firearms, including banning of all handguns. The Nazis walked into the offices of the central registry, gathered all the files, then gathered all the guns in private hands. Result: minimal resistance from the conquered people. Britain was well on the way to banning private ownership of firearms. Result: here's an account from a man who was there. I used to work with him. He escaped from Dunkirk, with his rifle (soldiers are trained not to lose their rifles) and was subsequently placed on guard on the cliffs of Dover. They had no equipment to speak of. That was left in Dunkirk. He still had his rifle, so they gave him 5 rounds of ammo, half a magazine. Men were stationed every 100 yards along the cliffs. Some only had a single shot shotgun or a rook rifle. Some only had a pitchfork. Imagine trying to stop Rommel with a pitchfork! Except for the Channel, there was nothing to stop the Nazis. (The man went on to be captured at Tobruk and spent the war in an Austrian POW camp). Now, in Canada, FearlessLeader tells us that our panacea is full registration in a central registry for all firearms. What has the government done to "prepare us for war"? They have established handy lists of gunowners for invaders to address. They have discouraged private ownership of firearms and marksmanship. They have sent inadequately armed and trained people to die in hell-holes like Rwanda, Somalia & Bosnia. Our government situates our soldiers between 2 armed camps of people, who are itching to kill each other, and orders our people not to load their weapons. It is the height of hypocrisy for FearlessLeader to quote Appius Claudius, when party policy is the exact opposite. The central registry information will be abused. Why do I know that? Because it happens all the time. Unsrupulous persons, who have access to that info, will pass it on to the wrong people, human nature being what it is. Hackers will get into the database. Why do I know that? Because it happens all the time. Even the Pentagon is not immune, or the defense strongholds of NORAD. NOBODY can predict the future. There will be a crisis sometime in the future, when we don't want our citizens records to fall into the hands of an invader. I don't know when that will be, but it will happen sometime, if we put those records together in a central registry. We are doomed to repeat the stupid mistakes of the past, unless we learn from them. Gun control is a stupid mistake, dating from the 30's. Another stupid mistake is to think that warfare is a thing of the past. Remember, if you seek peace, prepare for war! Let's keep our guns and ammo. Let's have them dispersed and unrecorded. Let's tell our politicians what we expect from them. Let's treat our criminals like criminals. Do we really want armed robbers, with lengthy records of recidivism, back out on our streets? I say, let them find their marble orchard, let the groundhogs bring their mail. That's the way I'd run the country, anyway. Bye. Al. ===================Status symbol for the 90's - a FULL-TIME JOB===== = Al Harper, email - ce331@freenet.toronto.on.ca = = Box 51027, Eglinton Square, Scarboro, Ontario, Canada M1L 4T2 = ===="Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum" Appius Claudius the Blind, 281 BC=== ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V2 #237 **********************************