From owner-cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mon Mar 2 22:35:50 1998 Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 22:20:35 -0600 From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V2 #239 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Content-Length: 24148 X-Lines: 552 Status: RO Cdn-Firearms Digest Monday, March 2 1998 Volume 02 : Number 239 In this issue: FW: The February 27 Political Pannel Dave Tomlinson on ESR http://www.cpa-acp.ca/ Re: A T & T support for anti-firearms groups Century International Arms: Canadian Orders AT&T Canada's position on Firearms Control Re: If you want peace you have to be ready for war AT&T and CDF Scapegoat AT&T funding political advocacy Demonization of Firearms Here is another case of unsafe storage CFC 1911 web site Government can't stop Hackers News From the U.K. - Part I ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 11:06:45 -0600 From: "Young, Rick" Subject: FW: The February 27 Political Pannel The following e-mail went to the CBC supper hour news program "First Edition" and was triggered by a comment made by regular participant Harry Flemming with reference to NS Tory Leader John Hamm's announcement last week that he would not participate in the implementation of C68 if elected. ________________________________________________________________ > Harry Flemming's comment that the implementation of the long gun > registry should not be a provincial concern because " it doesn't cost > them anything" clearly illustrates why Harry is a political columnist > rather than an accountant. > > The Province pays for policing and employs the Chief Provincial > Firearms Officer and his staff. These are the agencies which will be > stuck with trying to administer this boondoggle. Ottawa is not known > for being quick to cover shortfalls when one of their new, improved, > better ideas costs more than they originally estimated - downloading > was one of the primary contibutors to a balanced budget. So you can > place a pretty safe bet that the Provincial coffers will suffer due to > implementation of this measure. And even if by some miracle it does > stay within budget, where in the name of all that's Holy do you think > the Federal money to pay for this comes from but your pocket and mine, > Harry??? > > Four provinces and a territorial government took Ottawa to court over > this legislation, a pretty good indication that there are significant > questions to be answered before many millions of tax dollars are > wasted on another "feel good" scheme. While we await the outcome, get > some new batteries for your calculator, Harry, and perhaps see if you > can enroll in a course on "Budgeting for Politicians in the 21st > Century". > > Rick Young > Lower Sackville, N.S. > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 11:06:45 -0600 From: dhammond@cadvision.com (Dave Hammond) Subject: Dave Tomlinson on ESR >To: cdn-firearms-chat@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca >From: dhammond@cadvision.com (Dave Hammond) >Subject: Dave Tomlinson on ESR > > >>Enter Stage Right - March 1998 >> >>The March 1998 edition of Enter Stage Right is out now. You check it out at >> >> >>**This month's issue** >> >>Canada's National Firearms Association president David A. Tomlinson >>ruminates about logical firearms control | Joseph Kellard discusses medical >>savings accounts as one solution for Medicare >> >>Enter Stage Right >>http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/3078/ > DH ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 13:08:41 -0600 (CST) From: "Skeeter Abell-Smith" Subject: http://www.cpa-acp.ca/ } Those of you who are interested in what the Canadian Police Association } is doing about C-68, and C-16, look at this site. Very Interesting. } } } } [Moderator: Look under Legislation/Briefs to Government/C-68 } Regulations. HTB] I looked at http://www.cpa-acp.ca/leg/briefs/firearmsregs.97e.html ("Brief to the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights on the Draft Regulations on Firearms -- November 27, 1997") and found these quotes: "We remain convinced that registration of firearms in Canada will produce important police officer and public safety consequences but integrity dictates that we make clear that such benefits pale in comparison to cheaper yet attainable improvements such as a properly timed sample extraction DNA Data Bank or targeted parole reform measures." "...while not denying the consequent benefit from firearms registration, it remains crystal clear that firearms registration does not justify any reduction in current operational policing expenditures. Put bluntly, cops on the street provide greater public safety benefit than registration of firearms." "The Government has made progress in parole reform, High Risk Offenders and DNA Search Warrants although much more is required in these areas, all of which has been identified and all of which would be more cost effective than firearms registration insofar as public safety is concerned." "Until such time as there is confirmation of federal financial coverage of all firearms registration costs, priority justification of such a program is suspect." "From the outset, the CPA has identified two fundamental parameters to any registration system if police officer and public safety claims are to be justified. First is a system with the capacity to identify to a dispatched patrol officer the presence of firearms linked to a named individual. We believe the registration system currently envisaged to contain this need. The second requirement is a system that gives like firearms information to a patrol officer based on a dispatched address. In 1995 our Association identified this critical need to then Justice Minster Rock who specifically confirmed that the firearms registration system would contain such a capacity. Indeed, this deficiency within the planning of the existent bureaucracy led to the creation of the Firearms Users Group. Now, some two years later, we still await confirmation that the registration capacity promised by Mr. Rock is a part of the firearms registration system enacted by Bill C-68. If this full address reference capacity is absent then not only is this a contradiction of a specific promise but a defect so large as to compromise the entire firearms registration system. The Minister needs to address this still unanswered question." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 14:49:02 -0600 From: "John E. Stevens" Subject: Re: A T & T support for anti-firearms groups A friend of mine (firearms owner and user of AT&T) spoke with AT&T this morning to cancel their service. He was told, in no uncertain terms, that AT&T did not support anti gun groups. The Toronto story was factually incorrect and that they were preparing a rebutal. The AT&T rep went to great lenght to deny any such contributions. When asked if they might consider demonstrate their true stance by contributing to the support of the firearms community, maybe a direct contribution to NFA or the C68 challenge. The reply was "I'm not at liberty to discuss such issues". AT&T is feeling the surge of reaction. Good Stuff ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 14:49:10 -0600 From: Subject: Century International Arms: Canadian Orders Does anyone know if Canadians can order ammunition from Century Arms in the U.S. I've checked out their website and have been unable to find any information about Canadian orders. Is there a particular phone number or address for Canadian orders? S.F. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 14:49:15 -0600 From: "Jason Hayes" Subject: AT&T Canada's position on Firearms Control It has recently come to my attention that AT&T (both the parent company and AT&T Canada) have supported to, and continue to support groups known to promote anti-civil rights / anti-firearms theories and laws (notably the Coalition for Gun Control and Bill C-68 in Canada and Handgun Control Incorporated in the USA). Could your company please provide some evidence to either support or discredit this rumor. If your company has not specifically contributed to these groups, please inform me if your company has a specific policy or stand on the issue of gun control. As a subscriber to AT&T's services, I feel it is imperative that I am informed of AT&T's postion on this topic. Your response to this query will play a large role in my chosing a long distance provider. I believe it will also drive the decisions of thousands of Canadian firearms owners. Please make your reply to hayes@pris.bc.ca and provide a "CC" to Cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca. Thank you for your time and attention to this matter Jason Hayes ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 14:49:28 -0600 From: dons@cadabratech.com (Don Shesnicky) Subject: Re: If you want peace you have to be ready for war > What has the government done to "prepare us for war"? They have > established handy lists of gunowners for invaders to address. They have > discouraged private ownership of firearms and marksmanship. Absolutely true, you do have to ready for war, in fact not being ready and strong can lead to war. On a similar note, if this country ever goes to war again I'd be the first to tell young people to hide in the hills. Canada has pretty much dismantled their military and made it top heavy with bureaucrats who will sacrifice people's lives. The one interesting feature of the nature of people is that moods change and these politicians that sacrificed our military for political gain may end up being dragged through the streets in chains. If they ever are, I hope they look into the crowd, to the left and about about two rows deep, I'll be the guy doubled over laughing his gonads off... Don ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 14:49:33 -0600 From: starwind@ibm.net Subject: AT&T and CDF Some have written that AT&T Foundation gives to the Benton Foundation which then gives to the Children's Defence Foundation [CDF]. While I will assume that this is true, AT&T Foundation also DIRECTLY gives money to CDF; USD$75,000 in EACH of 1994, 1995, and 1996. I was NOT able to find CDF on the 1997 recipient list. As Skeeter pointed out, CDF is rather anti-gun, and definitely uses skewed statistics [I would REALLY REALLY like to know how ANYONE can justify classifying 18 and 19 year olds as "children"!!]. SW. - -- Starwind System Administrator, Khijol starwind@ibm.net Moderator, CWEWAF-L Co-Founder, Canadian Women Educating Women About Firearms ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 16:11:16 -0600 From: mtoma Subject: Scapegoat Just a guess on what the new scapegoat is: it is your sensitive 90s kind of guy, white angle saxon male. Mike Toma ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 16:11:43 -0600 From: "Barry Glasgow" Subject: AT&T funding political advocacy to: the Toronto Star 980302 cc: Eva Innes (AT&T Canada) subject: AT&T funding political advocacy In a letter to the Toronto Star ombudsman, Eva Innes, Director of Corporate Communications for AT&T demanded a retraction for an article written by John Powers claiming that AT&T was funding anti-firearms coalitions. She claimed that his observations are factually incorrect while plugging AT&T as "a national telecommunications provider, offering long distance, data and Internet services to Canadians from coast-to- coast". Apparently, this is meant to convince us that AT&T, unlike other large corporations, stays away from partisan politics. Ms. Innes also stated that AT&T Canada is only one-third American owned - attempting to distance her company from its American counterpart so as to disassociate it from any objectionable conduct on the part of the parent corporation. Ms. Innes' refutes Mr. Powers' claim that AT&T made a "grant to fund a campaign to ban firearms" by explaining that it was "in fact, support for two groups, the Advertising Council and the Benton Foundation. The funding provided to these two organizations is targeted at the Coalition for America's Children - 350 non-profit organizations all focused on improving the lot of children in the US. All the AT&T funding is directed specifically at initiatives to improve the lives of children. The Coalition for America's Children is a neutral organization that does not support any specific legislative proposals." This statement relies on the omission of important facts that would obviously disprove it. The Coalition's member groups are responsible for a number of political initiatives aimed at undermining the wants and needs of millions of good citizens. >From New Gun Week, December, 1996; The Coalition was organized by the M.G. Fund, which was founded and is chaired by Marjorie Benton, also a trustee of the Benton Foundation and a National Committee member of Handgun Control Inc. The Coalition shares office space with the Benton Foundation, which provides them with staff and resource support from its Washington, DC, office. Five of the Coalition's seven-member executive Committee also are Handgun Control Inc., or Coalition to Stop Handgun Violence members. Ten of its 19 steering committee members are Handgun Control Inc., or Coalition to Stop Handgun Violence members, and over 20 national level organization members are members of HCI. Such groups are notorious for hiding behind "the children" in order to promote various social agendas. Under the guise of child welfare, groups like Handgun Control Inc. and the Children's Defense Fund have banded together in a campaign to ban all legally owned firearms. The Children's Defense Fund also expends considerable effort and money in its campaign to fight tough legislation aimed at deterring habitual and increasingly violent young offenders. Internet websites devoted to promoting these agendas do so by publishing false and misleading information and tips on how to effectively use mass communications (including the media) to promote this campaign. These sites were effectively tied together when President Clinton issued a public service announcement describing the partnership between the national Ad Council, the Coalition for America's Children and the Benton Foundation and a website at www.kidscampaigns.org that completes a government-sponsored link between these affiliated organizations. Not coincidentally, the campaign was kicked off as public opposition to Clinton's anti-firearms legislation began to mount. Put differently, the groups within the Coalition are fighting legislation that is known to work and targets criminals while it pushes for prohibitions against non-criminals that have already proven themselves worse than ineffective. The Ad Council website tells us that "People motivated by The Advertising Council's ads can connect with the Benton Foundation's Kids Campaigns, a state-of-the-art communications Hub that consists of the world wide web site, a toll-free telephone hotline, and fax-on-demand services. The Hub will offer how-to information, resources, volunteer opportunities and will connect concerned adults with the Coalition for America's Children, a nonpartisan alliance of 350 national, state and local nonprofit organizations working for kids nationwide. This program was made possible by a generous grant from the AT&T Foundation. AT&T also will provide the expertise of its people and technology to help translate awareness into action on behalf of the nation's children." With taxpayers' money and a huge helping hand from AT&T, a public misinformation campaign of immense proportions is being waged against a public who remain, as usual, unaware of the hidden agendas and the collaborations involved. So the question for Canada's 7 million responsible gun owners, and those of us concerned about how lightly young criminals are treated, is; why should we help fund, through our long distance subscriptions, a company that is instrumental in helping groups organize this subversive attack on legal, responsible firearms ownership and laws intended to crack down on criminal violence? Despite AT&T Canada's attempts to downplay all this, it is important for Canadian consumers to be aware of it and to reserve the right to say "No thanks" the next time a friendly AT&T representative tries to solicit their business. For current subscribers, the competitive nature of the business should make switching to another carrier (possibly one that is totally Canadian) rather attractive - especially after analyzing facts not seen in AT&T's TV ads. With 35-40% of Canadian households owning firearms and a sizeable number of additional households expressing dismay and concern over the mishandling of young criminals, this lost might hopefully persuade corporations to avoid dabbling in partisan politics. Barry Glasgow Woodlawn, Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 16:11:45 -0600 From: Ben Timms Subject: Demonization of Firearms In the past few issues there has been discussion of demonization of firearms owners from the media and Liberal political groups. We share the same fate in the US. Let me relate a term coined by a friend: Despised Minority: The despised minority is found in every society, and is comprised of that group of people who, for real or imagined characteristics, are deemed outcast. This concept has been applied to firearms owners, hunters and fishers, and users of tobacco products in the recent past. In previous decades, it has applied to communists, pacifists, union organizers, citizens of enemy countries during wartime, and immigrants from any country in sufficient concentrations. It can be applied to any class or group which can be singled out and represented as inferior or undesirable. The despised minority is expected to bear the burden of society in silence or at least, tacit acquiescence. The reversal of the majority opinion requires tremendous effort from within, e.g. the civil rights movement, or forces external to the society such as invasion. The concept is so thoroughly ingrained in society that no further explanation should be necessary. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 20:05:57 -0500 From: rmcreat@istar.ca (BC NFA) Subject: Here is another case of unsafe storage >From Richmond BC; A man returning from a hunting trip was faced with an angry and drunk wife who became violent towards him. He left the house, ran to the Richmond RCMP to get help. The RCMP went to the house while keeping him at the station, found the firearms he had told them about. Manipulated a statement from his wife while under the enfluence of alcohol. Charged him with asualt which, in theory, gave them premise to charge him with unsafe storage. His wife has since made statement that she was pressured into making statement against her husband and that she infact has no memory of him attacking her at all. He is proceeding with his defense case against the RCMP. Michelle Traver NFA-BC SSAC ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 22:20:15 -0600 From: mtoma Subject: CFC How long do you think it will take the CFC to expand and become armed and possess powers of enforcement similar to the BATF? Just a nasty thought, Mike Toma ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 22:20:26 -0600 From: Howard & Sharon Sims Subject: 1911 web site I cannot access the 1911 web site that was in the digest a few weeks ago. I believe it was larque_tagets.com/. Can anyone verify its URL. Thanks Howard ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 22:20:28 -0600 From: red rambo Subject: Government can't stop Hackers If USA Government can't stop hackers, how can the Rock system stop them. We might as well publish our valuables on the Internet they would be safer....... See the writeup on How to handle Hackers ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 22:20:32 -0600 From: Larry Luzny Subject: News From the U.K. - Part I UK News Electronic Telegraph Friday 27 February 1998 Issue 1008 Huntsmen and landowners unite in protest MORE than 5,000 beacons were lit across Britain last night as blood sport supporters and landowners protested against government policy on the countryside. The first fires were lit at 6.10pm in the Outer Hebrides and were followed at two-minute intervals by relays of beacons ending in London at 6.30pm. Thousands of hunt members gathered at key sites to express opposition to the Foster Bill seeking the abolition of foxhunting. They were joined by landowners concerned about plans to extend rights of access to private land and housebuilding, and farmers suffering from the beef-on-the-bone ban and the strong pound. The bonfire protest was intended to highlight Sunday's Countryside March in London, which is expected to attract 150,000 people. More than 200 beacons were lit in the countryside around the Worcester seat of the Labour backbencher Michael Foster, whose private member's Bill would ban hunting with dogs. The final beacon to be lit was on land belonging to the Duke of Westminster in Grosvenor Gardens, in the West End of London. One of the highest beacons was on the Old Man of Coniston, in the Lake District. Members of the Coniston Foxhounds scaled the peak with firewood yesterday morning in preparation for the event. In Berkshire, a farmer did not bother to build a beacon and simply set fire to a barn. But farmworkers in the same county who wanted to light their beacon were banned from doing so because it had been built on government property. The men, employed on an experimental farm owned by the Institute for Animal Health, at Compton, had to abandon their protest after they were warned by the institute's management that it would be a political act. Last night the Countryside Alliance, organisers of both events, asked people opposed to foxhunting to stay away from the Countryside March. Its spokesman, Janet George, said: "If those who are anti-hunting or support a statutory right to roam want a Countryside March, there's nothing to stop them organising one for themselves." Yesterday, the Prime Minister said it was "ludicrous" to suggest that lovers of the countryside necessarily supported hunting. "There are very many people who love the countryside, only a few of whom take part in hunting," he said. Mr Blair said he accepted that blood sports raised deeply held feelings in many people, but they should not be allowed to detract from the real issues of rebuilding rural services and creating a "fair and decent society". He went on to list a series of measures taken to help rural communities: £85 million for hill and livestock farmers; £70 million for farmers affected by the BSE crisis; an extra £447 million for schools in shire areas; the setting up of a Food Standards Agency to increase confidence in British products; the Ministry of Defence doubling of its purchases of British beef; and the creation of rural development agencies to boost economic development and regeneration in rural areas. The Agriculture Minister, Jack Cunningham, indicated that no extra parliamentary time would be made for the Foster Bill. But he warned of legislation enforcing the "right to roam" if landowners failed to agree a voluntary code for access to private land. Support for the protests came from the naturalist David Bellamy. He criticised town dwellers who were prepared to eat battery-produced hens and turkeys, yet "pointed the finger of scorn" at those who made a living out of rural pursuits. "They want other people to do their dirty work," he said. ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V2 #239 **********************************