From owner-cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mon Mar 16 17:16:10 1998 Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 16:51:54 -0600 From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V2 #269 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Content-Length: 20720 X-Lines: 525 Status: RO Cdn-Firearms Digest Monday, March 16 1998 Volume 02 : Number 269 In this issue: LIABILITY INSURANCE -- INDIVIDUALS OR CLUBS re:Unpublished Letter to Toronto Star Letter to Anne Re: UPS Brokerage Replica's Re: IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT Police and Pepper spray Re: Get Involved CFC comments on AR-15 and L1A1 status False figures/polls AR-15 Lower Receiver Re: Reform leader poaching ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 06:58:56 -0600 From: "David A. Tomlinson, NFA" Subject: LIABILITY INSURANCE -- INDIVIDUALS OR CLUBS As spring arrives, clubs and individuals start heading out to the shooting range. That raises the annual questions: Where do I buy liability insurance to cover my -- or my club's -- shooting activities? How do I get the most "bang for the buck"? If you are asking that question, you should know some FACTS about the NFA Liability Insurance [NFALI] program. It is a very good one, offering $5,000,000 coverage at VERY good rates. The "insurance year" runs from midnight on the morning of 01 Dec 97 to NFALI costs $4.75 per person covered per year, and is available to any member of the NFA -- in several ways. Insurance bought AS A CLUB usually requires the club to affiliate with the organization offering the insurance. Therefore, the "total" cost is the cost per member of affiliating with that organization PLUS the cost of the insurance -- or, if the organization does not TELL you the cost of the insurance but "buries" it in a TOTAL fee per member, then THAT is the "total" cost. If a club buys its insurance WITHOUT affiliating with a larger organization that offers insurance, the club often pays MORE in "total" cost -- for insurance only -- than it would for NFALI plus affiliation with the NFA. A club can affiliate with the NFA (Cost: $3 per member per year). Then the club can buy NFALI to cover all its members, at a cost of $4.75 per member per year. TOTAL cost -- affiliation PLUS insurance -- is only $7.75 per person per year. So a club with only 10 members can buy $5,000,000 coverage - -- including $2,000,000 directors and employees liability insurance -- for a TOTAL cost of $77.50 per year. The NFA does NOT require a list of members covered. That is a significant economy. If 10 members quit or move away, and 12 join up,you only have to send in an extra 2 X $7.75 = $15.50 to cover your 12 new members. The other 10 memberships "transfer" automatically. Your two new members are automatically covered. Just send in $7.75 for each in a reasonable time. Does your club hold shoots, or have guests, or let in one-day-only "temporary" members who are just there to sight in? NFALI covers them all - -- at a cost of $1 per person covered -- for the day, or for the duration of the shoot (up to 14 days). That has a side effect -- collecting $1 each time the person shows up as a "guest" or "occasional shooter" often persuades that 'freeloading" person to JOIN the club. It is a painless persuader -- "Hey, it's not US, it's just an insurance requirement!" NFALI coverage was designed by the NFA -- and we KNOW what you want, and what you need, and what will be helpful for your club. Similarly, an individual can take out a membership as an individual, and the "total" cost is then the cost of membership PLUS the cost of the insurance - -- or, if the organization does not TELL you the cost of the insurance but "buries" it in a TOTAL fee per member, then THAT is the "total" cost. An NFA "regular" membership costs $30 per year. Add $4.75 for the insurance, and the TOTAL cost is $4.75 per year. An NFA "family" membership costs $40 per year. Add 3 X $4.75 to insure you, your wife and your son, and the TOTAL cost is $54.25 per year. An NFA "business" membership costs $50 per year. Add 4 X $4.75 per year to insure you, and three of your employees, and the TOTAL cost is $69 per year. So -- WHAT does that $5,000,000 coverage actually COVER you for? KNOW what you are buying. In a recent hilarious case, the insurer initially refused to pay off because the insurance policy only covered accidents with shotguns of "12 gauge or smaller." The accident involved a 20 gauge -- and the insurer thought that 20 gauge was LARGER than 12 gauge! It got sorted out -- but the insured people had been completely unaware of that clause -- or that their 10-gauge shooters were NOT covered -- for many years. Buy your insurance from the NFA, and you get a COMPLETE COPY OF THE INSURANCE POLICY. What you SEE is what you get -- so you always know EXACTLY what your coverage is, and HOW IT WORKS. NFALI covers you for $5,000,000 for each incident. It covers the club for ALL of the club's activities -- including dances. If an individual has other insurance, it adds $5,000,000 coverage ON TOP of any other insurance coverage, or gives $5,000,000 coverage where there is NO other insurance. NFALI covers every insured person -- whether insured through the club, or directly as an NFA regular, family or business member -- for all hunting, archery on a range, and fishing. The coverage is THERE when the accident happened in Canada -- or the continental US. If insured through a club, the insured person is covered when shooting at the home range or when shooting at any other range if the club sanctions that shooting. If insured directly, the insured person is covered when shooting at ANY target range. Club coverage includes $100,000 coverage for damage to rented premises caused by negligence -- such as fire damage caused by a cigarette after the annual dance. Club coverage includes $2,000,000 coverage for damage caused by wrongful, though not criminal acts by its Directors or Executive. Club coverage includes coverage of volunteers and employees. Club coverage offers FREE coverage of a co-insured -- such as the range owner. Please note that the ENTIRE $4.75 per person goes to the insurer (Gan, formerly known as Simcoe Erie). The NFA gets NO percentage of that, and NO kickbacks. Because we do it that way, the insurance fee is NOT TAXABLE, and you pay NO GST on it -- OR on your NFA membership fees. Providing the full copy of the insurance policy is something that the NFA does. We send you a photocopy of the ENTIRE insurance policy, and the NFA pays the extra cost of making those copies and mailing them. We think it is that important to TELL you EXACTLY what you are buying. OK, now take a look at your own coverage -- and the coverage you are buying through your club. Run a comparison -- which is better coverage? Which costs less when you look at the TOTAL cost? Which organization gives you the best information on WHAT it is you have bought? And don't forget this: As an NFA member or member of an NFA-affiliatted club, you are part of a BIG, TOUGH ORGANIZATION that FIGHTS for you. Be part of the hammer, not just another nail. JOIN THE NFA. Dave Tomlinson, NFA ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 07:36:00 -0600 From: "Barry Glasgow" Subject: re:Unpublished Letter to Toronto Star to: the Toronto Star cc: Garry Breitkreuz (MP) Canadian Firearms Digest In message "Unpublished Letter to Toronto Star", the Canadian Firearms Digest wrote; >[Moderator: Apparently the Toronto Star is having difficulty in publishing >this letter. HTB] > > March 13, 1998 >The Editor >The Toronto Star >1 page sent via Fax: (416) 869-4328 > >Dear Editor: > >Re: "SPOUSAL ABUSE INQUIRY Gun law would raise alarms" - March 13, 1998 > [snip] > >The truth is spending hundreds of millions on registering more than 18 >million legally-owned firearms is just diverting tax dollars from programs >that would do far more good - programs such as women's crisis centres, >family counseling, financial counseling, emergency services, community >policing, and victim's health and treatment programs. > [snip] > >Garry Breitkreuz, MP >Yorkton-Melville. Aside from Mr. Breitkreuz's excellent points regarding the tremendous costs and lack of benefit in universal registration, I would like to point out how ironic it was to see the same womens' groups who helped push for such misguided legislation rejected in their bid to get funding from Toronto City Council to keep a woman's shelter going while the same council saw fit to give $50,000 to the Coalition for Gun Control to pay well-known shyster Clayton Ruby to fight our constitutional challenge to Bill C-68 (a fight that Mr. Ruby apparently felt so strongly about that he said it would be pro bono). Barry Glasgow Woodlawn, Ont. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 08:47:28 -0600 From: Karl Schrader Subject: Letter to Anne Anne McLellan, M.P. Minister of Justice House of Commons Ottawa, Ontario K1A 0A6 Re.: Self Defense - ---------------------------- Dear Ms. McLellan: Would you please be kind enough to outline to me and several friends the legal procedure to be followed in case of a violent home invasion ? We established the response time of the local police force to be appr. 15-20 minutes, if there is an opportunity to make a call to them. If, however, there is no chance to make that call to the police, what would be the appropriate way to deal with that situation in a legal way ? Since the law requires that all our hunting arms have to be securely stored and locked up and the ammunition for them is to be stored separately and also locked up, there will be no possibility to have timely access to them in order to be able to defend ourselves. We realize that you are extremely busy, in order to save valuable time, you could delegate someone in your Department who is competent and knowledgeable and who also has signing authority, to provide us with a reply. In anticipation of your response, we remain sincerely ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 09:23:05 -0600 From: "John E. Stevens" Subject: Re: UPS Brokerage At 06:44 AM 3/16/98 -0600, Rick Lowe wrote: >I don't know how UPS does their brokerage now, but I doubt it is 10% of any >value - if that package had $10,000 worth of electronic components, I doubt >the importer is willingly going to pay $1,000 in brokerage for an entry that >takes five minutes to write. > >Irrespective of how UPS calculates their brokerage, they are very >unscrupulous, even if what they do is legal. [snipped - extensive description of UPS brokerage practices and competencies] Rick's comments confirm all the things I have experienced concerning UPS as well as those things I have been told by a number of customs officers. My understanding is that UPS has been warned numerous times about the possibilities for loosing their license. Seems they never quite go over the edge. My approach has been to simply tell US vendors that my order is conditional upon their use of a courier/broker other than UPS. And it is surprising how many companies are stopping the use of UPS. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 12:20:09 -0600 From: SBKracer Subject: Replica's > >»Replicas are becoming prohibited in order to help prevent their > >»use in the commission of criminal offences. Despite the fact > >»that replica firearms cannot cause physical harm, they are no > >»less terrifying to look at for the victim of a robbery. I > >»would add that they have a limited number of legitimate uses, > >»such as firearm safety instruction and use in television or > >»film production, all of which will be exempted from the > >»prohibition. In addition to this, deaths have occurred where > >»police were unable to determine that the firearm in question > >»was merely a replica and shot the person holding the replica > >»and pointing it at them. > > An interesting concept. Anything that drives criminals AWAY from "replicas" > is guaranteed to drive them TOWARD real guns. The latter part of the above > paragraph is the REAL reason -- the police would rather have good PR than > bad PR -- even if it DOES drive criminals to use REAL guns. -- Dave > Tomlinson, NFA This posting on replicas is almost unbelievable. I guess this means the end of all those plastic guns for kids. Speaking of which what exactly is the definition of a replica? When I was a kids we used to make "guns" out of plywood. Cut out the general outline and then paint it green and black. Would that count as a replica? Would it be TERRIFYING to a potential victim? Actually victims wouldn't be so terrified if they were allowed to carry guns of their own. Peter Cronhelm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 12:20:19 -0600 From: Karen & Jerrold Lundgard Subject: Re: IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT Re: IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT At 06:28 AM 3/16/98 -0600, David A. Tomlinson wrote: >The NFA is proud and pleased to announce that all NFA Liability Insurance is >increased -- from $2 million to $5 million coverage, effective 01 Dec 97 -- >at no extra charge to those who have already bought it, or to those who will >buy it this year. >The included directors and officers liability is increased from $1 million >to $2 million. > >Readers: We would appreciate your spreading this good news around. > >David A. Tomlinson >National President, NFA Apparently the insurance company has re assessed the risk of those who own firearms and have discovered firearms owners are a much lower risk group than some would like the public to believe. Jerrold lundgard@ccinet.ab.ca Peace River, Alberta, Canada ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 12:20:26 -0600 From: SBKracer Subject: Police and Pepper spray Article in the Sunday Calgary Sun: Apparently Calgary Police are no longer allowed to spray perps more than once even if it was not totally effective on the first try. They are also not allowed to spray anyone with a potential respritory ailment and they have to be aware of who or what is downwind when using their spray. Favourite quotes from the article: "It's so easy to decide whats best for police to do in volatile life or death situations when on is safely tucked in a nice office." "Maybe cops should start packing questionaires along with them so they can ask someone lunging at them waving fists or a knife a few quick health questions." Peter Cronhelm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 14:25:51 -0600 From: "Marcia Little" Subject: Re: Get Involved Again the governments attempt at control backfires . In Dec. Went in to buy a Ruger 10/22 and realized my F.A.C had expired a week earlier. Having not kept up with what was happening I was in for quite a surprise. Now the process takes ten times longer and cost 5 to 10 times more In the meantime I've bought 3 handguns and 1 rifle, joined the local fish and game joined the N.F.A and am becoming more and more involved by the minute Having dealt with the Gov. in the past and knowing many people who work? for them I know how there narrow. little minds try to work. More laws, more rules, more paper I have met a great number of people lately who are getting involved and beginning to read between the lines Remember what happened with the G.S.T More people work for cash now then ever before ; what I've noticed in the past several years are more contractors and a huge increase in home owners who. want to pay cash and nothing but '' to hell with the govt.'' is what I hear. Remember they started it The underground economy flourishes as it will with firearms. As usual the whole mess backfires in their faces ( no pun intended ) well maybe. Still haven't bought that 22 .. Dave B.C. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 14:26:02 -0600 From: Norm Frei Subject: CFC comments on AR-15 and L1A1 status Had this passed to me, might be of interest to those who own an AR15 or L1A1 I see it only took CFC a month and a half to reply to a simple question. Guess the "system" is backlogged. :)) »To: Canadian Firearms Centre »Subject: current status »Date: February 2, 1998 03:21 » »Can the registered owner of an AR-15 or L1A1 take them to a shooting range » Date: 16 Mar 1998 13:50:00 -0500 From: "Centre Firearms, Canadian" Subject: current status Dear Sir/Madam: Thank you for your question with respect to transporting an AR-15 and an L1A1 to a range for target shooting. The AR-15 is a restricted firearm. At present, in order to transport it to a range, you would require a carry permit, issued under Part III of the Criminal Code. As of October 1, 1998, when the Firearms Act comes into force, the carry permit will no longer exist and you will need to apply for an authorization to transport under the Act. The process will be very similar to that for obtaining a carry permit. The L1A1 is a prohibited firearm, which was grandfathered to its owners when it became prohibited. Again, at present, carry permits are issued for transport to a shooting range. As of October 1, 1998, it will be possible to transport these firearms for target shooting or competition purposes on an occasional basis. This is made possible by the Special Authority to Possess Regulations, which are expected to be made shortly by Parliament. Yours truly, Kathleen Roussel Communications Group Canadian Firearms Centre ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 14:26:04 -0600 From: "L.J. Brooks" Subject: False figures/polls I was just reading an article by columnist Claire Hoy and in it he mentions an upcoming documentry about public opinion polls. The documentry is by John Kastner its titled "Ask a Silly Question" and is going to be on CBC's Witness program, Thursday 19 Mar at 8:00 PM. This documentry features an interview with Liberal pollster, Michael Marzolini, who states, "that many polls are skewed because their questions are often manipulated to get the desired replies". This statement kind of goes hand-in-hand with the recent revelation that the Dept of Jusrice misinterpeted RCMP homicide figures. Also makes you wonder about all of these polls that show Canadians are in favour of gun-control. The rest of the article deals with polls and Jean Charest jumping ship. It can be found at Anyway, sounds like a program that might be worth while watching. Check your local listings! L.J. Brooks Winnipeg, MB l.j.brooks@usa.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 14:26:18 -0600 From: Kent Seymour Subject: AR-15 Lower Receiver I have been comtemplating purchasing an AR-15, but due to financial considerations have not been able to afford a complete firearm. In CFD-Digest 268 David talked about purchasing just the lower receiver and then purchasing the rest at a later date. Are there any dealers out there who will sell just the lower receiver and at what price. Anybody have an AR-15 used for sale? [Moderator: Please reply directly to Kent Seymour. HTB] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 16:51:49 -0600 From: Kyle and Barbara Berry Subject: Re: Reform leader poaching The story reported here is basicly correct. Jack Weisgeber and a friend were driving in Jack's truck, spotted a deer and the friend took a shot at it from the road side. The deer was also on private farm land and not a "deer" at all, but a decoy watched by the local Conservation Officer. Appropriate charges have been laid against the two gentlemen. Jack Weisgerber WAS the Legislative leader of the provincial Reform party until it collapsed under poor leadership (not Jack's). Weisgerber had been sitting as an independent long before the "deer" incident, as Norm reported in CFD #268. The charges have once again made the news because Jack has declined the nomination as Speaker of the Provincial Legislature because of this difficulty. Local wags are having a great time with this one. The best one I saw in the local papers concerned the Christmas decorations one business had put up on its roof. It was a series of large cutouts of Santa and his reindeer. In commenting on the decoration, one local figured, to be really complete, it needed the addition of a Weisgerber and friend stalking the plywood reindeer. ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V2 #269 **********************************