From owner-cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sun Apr 19 21:37:39 1998 Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 21:19:01 -0600 From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V2 #352 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Content-Length: 22904 X-Lines: 530 Status: RO Cdn-Firearms Digest Sunday, April 19 1998 Volume 02 : Number 352 In this issue: York Region firearms officer gets 90 days in jail! firearms instructor and examiner.B.C. The Canadian Civil Liberties Association FW: NFA fund raising Importing a SIG Re: Short Barrel Shotguns CILA Re: ar-15 and co. INDOOR AMMUNITION Re: Calculating CFC Personnel costs SAR-8 Re: Customs problems and how to deal with them... Re: Letter from Lott on his new book ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 17:55:23 -0600 From: Chris Subject: York Region firearms officer gets 90 days in jail! A York Region police officer who made almost $2,000 selling guns turned over to the force by the public has been jailed 90 days for breach of trust in what the judge called "a sad day" for policing. You can read about Constable Douglas Hunt in the April 15, 1998 Toronto Star newspaper. Paul Mullin, the Toronto firearms registrar who was also charged in a guns for cash scheme is scheduled to stand trial on April 29, 1998. Mullin is facing 50+ charges. Right on! its about time these judges made an example of these corrupt cops. The conviction of Douglas Hunt hunt is a precedent setting, and will hopefully help convict Paul Mullin at his up coming trial. Bye bye Hunt. Mr. Mullin your next! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 17:55:55 -0600 From: dumech@mail.island.net (Alex Storimans.) Subject: firearms instructor and examiner.B.C. Does any one know how I can get my firearms instructor and examiner certificate in B.C., and the steps leading to this? I have my F.A.C. Thanks Alex Storimans QualicumBeach B.C. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 20:10:53 -0600 From: "Marc Thibault" Subject: The Canadian Civil Liberties Association Thinking I might want to join up, I took a look at the Canadian Civil Liberties Association (CCLA) web site. I figured they'd be an ally. What I found was an organization dedicated to the protection of politically correct ideas. They're pretty strong on free speech, curbing the police, and privacy (but I couldn't find their position on civil use of crypto). In other words, the CCLA are ready for any fight where they can depend on the Canadian media for support. A boo at their list of contributors would be interesting. They protest mightily the OPP raid of an urban couple's home and various Customs abuses of anti-porn laws, but not a word about Marstar, Vidal or Kearns. On C-68, they're with us on the issue of excessive police powers but "On the substantive issue of regulating firearms, the Canadian Civil Liberties Association adopts a position of neutrality. In our view, the right to possess firearms does not qualify as one of the fundamental freedoms of the democratic system. Thus, whatever the positive or negative features of this bill may be, we do not believe that gun control legislation is inherently objectionable on civil liberties grounds." Why they adopt this position (which is anything but neutral) on the preeminent right that protects all the others is beyond me. The CCLA seem to think that civil liberties stop being important when you have to fight for them. In any case, the CCLA are no friends of ours. Pity. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 06:02:06 -0600 From: Stuart Reid Subject: FW: NFA fund raising Money: someone once told me there is few problems money can't fix, this may or may not be true, but when it comes to politics I'll bet it's probably true. About 2 years ago I started to build composite stocks after seeing what was available south of the border. It's taken quite a while to design my system of manufacture, but I believe I am producing a top quality blank at a below average price.I have a number of gunsmiths using my stocks in the Edmonton area and seem to be getting good response . Ok enough background now on with my proposal. I am looking to assemble enough help to put together a kick ass hunting gun and raffle it off across the country through the NFA. I have spoken to Dave about this and he will support it but the NFA does not have the time to do the leg work. The whole idea behind this is donations and volunteers so there is no input cost to the NFA., there must be enough people with varying background to pull this off with no one person having to put out too much time or funds. With all revenue going to the NFA. 1. I will donate one stock per year as long as we can keep this going. I will also bed and paint 2. some one to donate an action 3. some one that can donate a barrel 4. I've spoken to couple dealers in Edmonton they are willing to donate various parts scope, rings, bases , recoil pads, etc. 5. I've spoken to a couple gun smiths and they are willing to do the chambering work and various other parts of the project 6. somebody out there must know a printer that is a shooter or has a soft spot for us, that could print posters or raffle tickets 7. tickets could be distributed through provincial NFA or other volunteers. 8. There is probably a photographer in the crowd that could shoot the gun when finished. So this is my idea for raising money for the fight, I would like to hear from any one interested in helping out, with time or parts, One gun I did for a friend was a 10/22 but I built a natural finish carbon fiber stock for it and then clear coated it 6 times so you could see the black cross hatch pattern of the carbon fiber. We then had an air brush mural of a saber tooth gopher done on each side of the stock. I was thinking of something like this for the raffle gun with the NFA crest on one side and the gopher on the other, a one of one gun. This particular gun has drawn a lot of attention at the few guns show I have attended to promote my stocks. The older crowd thought it was cute in a gopher killing sort of way and the young one's though it was just plain cool. Most of us can pass up a raffle ticket but lets see dad pass on one with the young shooter tugging on his sleeve for his first gopher gun. P.S. Any and all spelling and type o's are my own not the computers fault, i don't blame inanimate objects for my own shortcomings. Any input would be most welcome. Stuart fibergls@oanet.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 12:05:37 -0600 From: taylor_buckner@sympatico.ca Subject: Importing a SIG This question came to me privately but the return address did not work, so I am responding to it in the Digest. >I am a Canadian citizen currently living in Texas. I have purchased a >SIG P226, .357 handgun & would like to know if it is legal to bring this >back to Canada with me or if Canadian Customs will confiscate it at the >border. I have been in the USA for 4 years & am enjoying the freedome >of competitive shooting down here. Any thoughts on this brand & model >for legalities in Canada? Or shall I sell it if I ever decide to move >back to Canada? If your SIG has the standard 4.4" barrel it is over the 4.14" minimum, so would be legal from this point of view. If it has only 10 round magazines it would be legal from this point of view also. The 15 round magazine is legally considered to be a "prohibited weapon" with up to a 10 year prison sentence for possession. There is a _lot_ of paperwork, export clearance from BATF in the U.S., import clearance from Foreign Affairs in Canada, you will have to get a Firearms Acquisition Certificate which takes a course or exam and a minimum of 28 days, you will probably have to join a club. There will be customs brokers fees, GST and PST (taxes), etc. I imported a fairly expensive pistol ($1500) and the paperwork and taxes came to $500. So, it is possible, but it might be easier to sell it there, get your FAC in Canada, join a club, and buy another one here. Depending on the province that will take from 6 months to a year (including the wait to get the paperwork for the gun so you can pick it up from the dealer, probably the same length of time if you import) but you will save some money and a _lot_ of frustration. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 18:26:57 -0600 From: David A Tomlinson Subject: Re: Short Barrel Shotguns >I have seen comments on the digest which say that it is illegal to shorten the barrel of a shotgun. NO. Shortening the barrel of ANY unrestricted firearm to less than 18" converts the FIREARM into a "prohibited weapon." Shortening the barrel of a CENTERFIRE SEMI-AUTOMATIC unrestricted firearm to less than 18.5" but MORE than 18" converts the FIREARM into a "restricted weapon" which must be registered. Outside those limitations, you can do what you want. Dave Tomlinson, NFA ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 18:27:17 -0600 From: drg@linetap.com Subject: CILA Last night I attended the annual general meeting of the Burlington Rifle and Revolver club ( over 1100 members) where we heard a presentation from The Canadian Institute for Legislative Action ( CILA). At the conclusion of the presentation, unanimous support was given this new organization by those attending. It was also brought to light that the NFA does not support this new initiative. I would be very interested to hear from anyone in the NFA why support has been withheld . Don Goodbrand drg@linetap.com [Moderator: Civil and reasoned responses only, please. HTB] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 18:27:18 -0600 From: David A Tomlinson Subject: Re: ar-15 and co. >I have a question pertaining to the banning of AR-15s, CAR-15s and >XM-15s. I have been hearing that the different makes will be banned at >different times. I was wondering if this information is valid, and if >so whether or not you know which would be banned first, and possibly >the dates assigned as of yet. The form that they are using is to ban "the firearm of the design commonly known as ________ and every variant or modified version thereof." They SAID in their publications that the determining factor in choosing which firearms to outlaw was a LIST of characteristics, each giving a point score. Too high a point score, and they would outlaw the firearm. For example, a bayonet lug, pistol grip and semi-auto mechanism were all "point counters," regarded as good grounds for moving a firearm toward its outlawing. The US tried banning firearms by using clear identifiers. The manufacturers responded by changing minor points and re-identifying the firearm. Result - -- hopeless confusion. Our Canadian "experts" tried to find a way around that. They used the formula given above, listing the "parent" firearm "design" and following it with a PARTIAL list of IDENTIFIED "variants." The result is hopeless confusion, because they did NOT state what RELATIONSHIP made one firearm a "variant" of another. The NFA analyzed their position by backtracking. We took THEIR lists of "variants" and studied HOW the "variants" were related to the "parent" firearm. The results were frightening -- nearly every firearm in Canada is a "prohibited weapon" by the rules that they used. What were those rules? There were four. 1. A firearm which is mechanically similar (NOT identical) to the "parent" firearm, but is made by a different manufacturer in a different country to use a different cartridge and is NOT similar in appearance to the "parent" firearm IS a "variant." 2. A firearm which is similar in outer appearance (NOT identical) to the "parent" firearm, but is made by a different manufacturer in a different country to use a different cartridge and is NOT mechanically similar to the "parent" firearm IS a "variant." 3. The term "variant" can run backward in time, with an EARLIER firearm being classified as a "variant" of a firearm that was developed LATER. 4. Any "variant" of a listed "variant" is a "variant" of the "parent" firearm. Therefore, under their rules, A. An 8X57mm 10-shot long semi-auto rifle made in Yugoslavia is a "variant" of a 7.62X39mm 30-shot semi-auto short rifle made in the former USSR. B. A .22 rimfire blowback-action rifle made in Italy is a "variant" of the same 7.62X39mm semi-auto short rifle, although it weighs only half as much and is only similar in outside appearance, not mehanically. C. The earlier Armalite AR-15 rifle is a "variant" of the later Colt M-16 military rifle. D. All .22 Mossberg semi-auto rifles are "prohibited weapons" today -- although no one is currently enforcing that law. There are excellent grounds to believe that every .22 Mossberg semi-auto rifle in Canada is a "prohibited weapon" under the law as it stands TODAY, because a rifle which is mechanically identical to the Mossberg .22, and which was made in the same factory in the same country to shoot the same cartridges as the Mossberg, has already been classified as a "parent" and a "prohibited weapon" by one of those outlawing Orders in Council. That is a FACT -- but the result of their "outlawing" effort is so ridiculous that no one is ENFORCING it. BUT -- just because is it not being ENFORCED, do NOT fall into the trap of thinking that it is not the LAW. Today. Dave Tomlinson, NFA ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 18:27:21 -0600 From: David A Tomlinson Subject: INDOOR AMMUNITION One of the worst problems that we have concerns shooting ranges for city dwellers. Another is the near-death of shooting in winter months on outdoor ranges. The "easy" solution is the indoor range, often INSIDE the city. The main problems are: 1. Heating: Air is usually heated, then swept from the firing point to the far end of the range, then pushed out of the building -- still warm. Cold air is drawn in to replace it, and that makes heating bills higher than a kite in winter. 2. Lead pollution: The heating problem is CAUSED by lead pollution, because the lead that enters the air when firing [airborne lead, which can be inhaled] MUST be swept away from the shooter, and CANNOT be recycled unless the air is carefully cleaned FIRST. Pushing the lead-contaminated air out of the building dumps airborne lead all over the area around the used-air exhaust vents. Under modern environmental law, the person, business or club responsible for polluting the area with lead is responsible for cleaning the soil of all lead pollution -- an expensive project. 3. Other toxic materials -- including lead -- come out of the primers in cartridges -- a smaller but still serious problem. We confidently expect that our Liberal government will USE the "pollution problem" to shut down ranges right and left as soon as Bill C-68 comes into force. Ranges will be shut down for too much lead in the air indoors, too much lead in the air outdoors, too much lead on the floor indoors, and too much lead fallout on the ground outdoors. Toxic primer products will be cited as contributing to the "unacceptable" pollution. We expect that our Liberal government will soon require "cleaning" of the indoor range's air BEFORE venting it, an expensive and capital-requiring cost to each existing indoor range. The solution to the linked heating and lead pollution, fortunately, is already here. Many manufacturers are now producing ammuntion that is lead-free and non-toxic. The first solution was Speer's TMJ bullet, and Federal's Nyclad. TMJ is Total Metal Jacket -- no lead is exposed, but there is lead inside the jacket. Nyclad is the same, but with a nylon coat all around the lead instead of one made of bullet jacket material. The government will respond by requiring removal of all spent bullets. That will be used to shut down OUTDOOR ranges in order to remove the "lead pollution" in the form of encapsulated lead. Primers, traditionally, have contained lead styphnate -- another lead pollutant. Now makers are shifting to the use of Dianol -- which contains NO lead. Remington TEMC Lead-Lokt, Winchester Unleaded and CCI Clean-Fire primers all use Dianol instead of lead styphnate.. The next step was to create bullets that do not even CONTAIN lead. The new bullets are designed to break up easily, designed for reduced pentetration, and designed to end the pollution problems of conventional bullets. The breakup and reduced penetration design factors make it possible to create indoor ranges that require simpler and cheaper backstops. The breakup characteristics prevent splashback and richochet when using metal targets. Blount, Delta, Federal, Longbow, Remington and Winchester are now all making ammunition with Dianol primers and the new "frangible" (easy breakup) pollution-free bullets. Delta bullets are pressed powdered copper. Winchester's are made with Delta's earlier bullet design, using an injection molded combination of powdered copper and tungsten mixed with a nylon polymer to hold it together. Both make cartridges using Winchester's lead-free Dianol primers, and those cartridges are polution free. Longbow ammo is similar to the Winchester, using Dianol primers, but Longbow uses a bullet that is 92 per cent copper and 8 per cent poymer binding agent. Federal Ballisticlean CQT [Close Quarters Training] ammo is presently only sold to law enforcement agencies. The bullet core is made of twisted strands of zinc, and is contained in a "normal" bullet jacket. Federal also has a "civilian" version with a jacketed zinc-core bullet. Remington's Disintegrator ammo uses pressed-iron-powder bullets with electroplated copper jackets and Remington lead-free Dianol primers. Blount's Lawman ZNT [Zinc Non Toxic] cartridges use bullets use a copper jacket containing a brittle cast-zinc core [alloyed with small quantities of aluminum and magnesium], and use a lead-free CCI Clean-Fire primer. NRA testing indicates that these new cartridges are accurate and feed reliably. While they are only available in common handgun calibers so far, this is clearly the beginning of an important new wave in ammunition technology. GET MORE INFORMATION AND SPREAD IT. Blount Inc, Box 856, LEWISTON ID 83501, USA -- 9mm and .40 S&W, with .38 Spl and .45 ACP coming. Also coming, aluminum-cased Blazer ammo with their ZNT bullets. Delta Frangible Ammunition, Box 2350, STAFFORD VA, USA -- 9mm, .38 Spl, .357 mag, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP Federal Cartridge Co, 900 Ehlen Dr, ANOKA MN 55303, USA -- .22 LR, .380 ACP, .38 Spl, 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP Longbow Inc, Box 624, BURNS FLAT OK 7362, USA -- .380 ACP, .38 Spl, .357 Mag, .357 SIG, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, .223 Rem, 308 Win, 7.62X39mm, and 12-gauge saboted slug Remington Arms, Box 700, MADISON NC 27025, USA -- 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP Winchester/Olin Corp, 427 N Shamrock St, EAST ALTON IL 62024, USA -- .38 Spl, 9mm, and .40 S&W. with .45 ACP and .223 coming -- for law enforcement customres only. Also coming, the SuperClean NT line for ALL shooters, using a jacketed tin-core bullet and Dianol primer, in 9mm, .38 Spl, .40 S&W and .45 ACP OK, get off your rump and FIND OUT MORE about this important new wave. It can save your range from being destroyed before you can take corrective measures. OUR LIBERAL GOVERNMENT IS HOSTILE. IT IS TRYING TO "REGULATE" THE FIREARMS COMMUNITY OUT OF EXISTENCE. THE "POLLUTION ISSUE" IS GOING TO BE USED TO DESTROY RANGES. GET READY FOR IT -- OR LOSE YOUR RANGE. Dave Tomlinson, NFA ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 18:27:24 -0600 From: Bill Farion Subject: Re: Calculating CFC Personnel costs Hi: If you can find an operating Federal Building or UI office, they should have a postings of jobs in the Civil Service. Since the salaries are usually the same across the position, a reasonable estimate of salaries can be made. The rule of thumb for overhead is double the salary. I used this system to calculate project costs in industry. Thks Bill (;-) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 18:27:27 -0600 From: "Mark Pearson" Subject: SAR-8 Are the Springfield Armoury SAR series of rifles prohibited, or restricted in Canada? I'm guessing since they are clones of the HK G3, and FN FAL, they are prohibited. I'd appreciate someone clarifying their status. Happy Shooting, Mark P. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 21:19:00 -0600 From: David A Tomlinson Subject: Re: Customs problems and how to deal with them... >I tried to do a search on the firearms site for your exact posting >instructing dealers how to approach this problem but I was unsuccessfull >because I couldn't remember the official government number of >the customs notice. I want to get this info out to these businesses >not only to help them out but to speed up some stuff I have on >order with them. Can you help me out here? There were three postings on Customs Notice N-177 and a Notice to Importers dated 1988. Send me a snailmail address and I'll send you the package on Customs handling. Include this so I know what you are talking about -- I get a LOT of email. The NFA asks for a donation of $3 to cover the expense, but will send this even if you can't afford that, as many people include a little extra to cover the poor. Dave Tomlinson, NFA ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 21:18:32 -0600 From: Tom Cohoe Subject: Re: Letter from Lott on his new book > "John Lott destroys the politically correct argument that arming law > abiding citizens will have a harmful effect on their safety. There is no > doubt that criminals prefer to prey upon the unprepared. This book will > arm those who read it with the important facts they need in order to decide > where they stand on the gun control issue."-Dale Gulbrantson, executive > director, Illinois Police Association, Inc. > > "This book will - or should - cause those who almost reflexively support > the limitation of guns in the name of reducing crime to rethink their > positions."-Steve Shavell, Professor of Law, Harvard Law School > > Book is available for $16.10 from Amazon.com or barnesandnoble.com: Well here is an idea. Perhaps we should send copies of this book to some influential people. Newspaper editors and columnists come to mind. If the NFA or some other group will organize this, I'll donate $200.00 to the project. We should be able to get a large order direct from the publisher for considerably less. Wadaya'll think? Tom Cohoe ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V2 #352 **********************************