From owner-cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sat May 2 22:16:44 1998 Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 21:58:50 -0600 From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V2 #372 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Content-Length: 22986 X-Lines: 576 Status: RO Cdn-Firearms Digest Saturday, May 2 1998 Volume 02 : Number 372 In this issue: CHRISTIE BLATCHFORD's Toronto Sun article Congratulate Peter Worthington Re: Firearm units prohibited from selling guns? Re: 89mm S&W bbl on AR15 TAINTED BLOOD SCANDAL Public Forum with M. P. Liberals Re: Firearm units prohibited from selling guns? Possession -only license RE: Need more Lieberal JOKES Ontario Police Services Act; Firearms Re: Liberal Sheep [none] Quotes Guest Speaker ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 13:07:10 -0600 From: Don Clarke Subject: CHRISTIE BLATCHFORD's Toronto Sun article May 2, 1998 Stories conflict in deputy's gun case By CHRISTIE BLATCHFORD "Toronto Police Deputy Chief Steve Reesor may have told internal affairs investigators he was a member of a gun club in the belief that would have allowed him to legally transport a firearm he was selling and given him a way out of a potentially difficult situation" For the rest of the article, go to Worth reading! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 13:07:12 -0600 From: Karl Schrader Subject: Congratulate Peter Worthington Article by Peter Worthington ===================== Toronto Sun, May 1,1998 Finally there is a journalist who has the guts to print the truth. I think it would be appropriate to send him a short congratulatory e-mail even if it will clog up his e-mail for a few days. If not everyone on this digest takes the few minutes to do this, we might as well resign to this monstrosity of a law. He apparantly does not have an individual e-mail address, however, if you use : editor@sunpub.com (Peter Worthington) it should reach him Please, go to it !! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 13:07:04 -0600 From: David A Tomlinson Subject: Re: Firearm units prohibited from selling guns? >While reading Ms. Blatchford's column in the Toronto Sun, "No Easy Answers >in Gun Unit Probe," I noticed a line that she wrote: "The law prohibits >police officers from using firearms units to sell their weapons." >Anyone know exactly what law she refers to? Is this in the criminal code, >or is it a provincial law? Police here in BC will auction off recovered >stolen goods, and collect part of the proceeds. There is no such law. Like so many of the "officials" of our Liberal government, the person who gave that information to the reporter lied, telling the reporter that a politician's POLICY was actually a LAW. Dave Tomlinson, NFA ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 13:07:05 -0600 From: David A Tomlinson Subject: Re: 89mm S&W bbl on AR15 >Perhaps you recall me asking you previously about registering an S&W 89mm >bbl to my AR15. You sent me an e-mail about it on 16 Jan, 1998. In it, >you were kind enough to include a detailed description of how it could be >attached and what kind of machining would be required. >I faxed it to Virginia at [local police] Firearms, as you suggested, and >demanded that my barrel be registered to my AR15. I did that on 20 Jan, >1998. I have requested, since then, a couple of times, about the >progress of that registration. >This week, I requested several times about that progress and demanded an >answer. I got one yesterday. Virginia has called RCMP. She spoke to >Const. Larry Cyr, @ (613) 998-6366. He has apparently told her that, >since "the conversion is not feasible", I will have to provide a working >firearm with that barrel included, and then have it "verified" by the >Centre for Forensic Science. She also said that they were very >backlogged, about a year, and they would have to keep my gun for the >year, while they "verified" my conversion. In your letter to CFR/FRAS, ask for details of Cst. Larry Cyr's training in the noble art of gunsmithing. If he has none, his comment that the conversion is "not feasible" can be translated as "I do not know how to do it -- but then, what do I know?" >I recognize that this is just bullshit stalling and I won't stand for >it. I will not phone Const. Cyr, because I am not going to waste my time >talking with a jackass, and paying long distance charges along with >it. Very wise. The CFR/FRAS boys ALWAYS want to deal with sticky problems by phone, and should NEVER be allowed to do that. What they say verbally is not worth the paper it is not written on -- SO GET IT IN WRITING, ON LETTERHEAD, AND SIGNED. Do NOT deal with CFR/FRAS in any way other than IN WRITING. > I intend to write to them and demand that they >register my barrel. I will also demand a written response, either saying >"Yes", or explaining why they will not register. I will demand that they >quote the criminal code to me, about why they cannot register. I also >will demand that they quote the criminal code about the "feasibility" and >"verification" nonsense. Go to Virginia, and fill out an Application to Register for your AR-15, showing the barrel length and calibre you want it to have. That then becomes YOUR Application to Register, over YOUR signature, which they must either accept or reject IN WRITING. >Any suggestions about exactly who to write, what to quote, and any other >ideas would be most welcome. I plan to write this letter within the next >few days. I know you're a busy guy, but I hope you can help me with >this. I am also going to bring this up with my MP, ****** *************,, who I >will see on Monday night. Good. Dragging in MPs always gives CFR/FRAS headaches. Dave Tomlinson, NFA ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 13:07:07 -0600 From: David A Tomlinson Subject: TAINTED BLOOD SCANDAL The tainted blood scandal is a problem with long legs. It will haunt the federal Liberals until the next federal election, and it will AFFECT the next federal election -- AGAINST the Liberals. ANY ISSUE THAT HELPS TO DEFEAT LIBERAL MPS IS AN ISSUE THAT BRINGS US ALLIES IN OUR BATTLE TO ELIMINATE CHRETIEN-ROCK'S BILL C-68. Therefore, it is in OUR interest to keep THIS issue alive and well for a long, long time. Therefore, it is up to the entire firearms community to PREVENT this issue from being lost and forgotten. It is our duty to comment on it CONTINUOUSLY - -- from now until election day. We must keep this issue HOT, and SUPPORT our new allies in the fight to eject Liberal MPs from Ottawa. WRITE LETTERS TO THE EDITOR ON THIS SUBJECT -- REPEATEDLY. Do NOT stop writing, or condemning the crass and criminal behavior of the Liberals. THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED: 1. The federal government took over the medical system -- including the blood supply -- from the provinces (who are, according to the Constitution, supposed to control those areas) by taking control of the MONEY supply and forcing the provinces to act in ways chosen by the federal government. They violated the Constitution, and that was a major cause of what happened -- because there was then only ONE decision to be made for the entire SYSTEM, not ten as each province decided for itself. The ONE decision turned out BADLY. 2. It was known, very early, that deadly diseases could be transmitted through tainted blood. The federal government decided to IGNORE the problem. That was NEGLIGENCE. 3. Soon, it became known that blood could be SCREENED, eliminating the problem. The federal government refused to put up the necessary funds to do that, and the problem became one of CRIMINAL NEGLIGENCE. 4. Many, many people got deadly diseases from blood transfusions that were supposed to help them. The CRIMINAL NEGLIGENCE began causing deaths and permanently disabling patients. 5. Having created an entire generation of the sick -- patients who would NOT have BECOME sick if not for the government's CRIMINAL NEGLIGENCE -- the federal government refused to pay compensation to the people it had injured. 6. FORCED to pay compensation, the Liberals insisted on paying the LEAST they thought they could get away with to the FEWEST injured people -- the Chretien-Rock "minimum solution." That is ABUSE OF THE SICK. 7. Liberal MPs protested that their Leader, Jean Chretien, was being unfair and unreasonable. Chretien forced them to choose between supporting Chretien and forcing a federal election -- and it was apparently made clear to all Liberal MPs that if they voted against Chretien's policy, they would not be allowed to run in the next federal election as Liberals. 8. One hundred per cent of all Liberal MPs held their noses and voted for the Chretien-Rock "minimum solution." Given the choice of voting to pay for their government's CRIMINAL NEGLIGENCE or voting to protect their own nice jobs as MPs, they chose to protect THEMSELVES rather than the people that they 'represented" in Parliament. Every one of them agreed to ABUSE OF THE SICK -- in order to protect their own salaries. And that was WRONG. 9. The federal Liberal Party has now PROVED that will NOT represent the people. It will act -- as every Liberal MP in Ottawa just has -- by obeying the ORDERS of Jean Chretien. Our country is not a representative democracy any longer -- it is a dictatorship run by Jean Chretien. Votes in the House are CONTROLLED by Jean Chretien -- CONSCIENCE has no part in our government. That is a sad, ugly story -- and one that FEW Canadians understand. The more Canadians who DO understand it, the more Canadians who will HELP US to vote the Liberals out of office in the next federal election. Chretien and Rock are 20th-century politicians who still believe -- against all evidence -- that all Canadians have a short attention span. They still believe that they can abuse us -- and any other large group of Canadian voters -- without paying a penalty. We -- the firearms community, and all the people made sick by our federal government's ABUSE OF THE SICK -- will quickly forget what we were angry about, once our all-wise Liberal government has made its decision into LAW. We are not smart enough to continue to fight once we have LOST. They are WRONG. We are 21st-century Canadians, watching the Chretien-Rock display of arrogance, ignorance and incompetence. We are NOT buying their pathetic excuses for abusive firearms control OR abusive medical decisions. We DO know what they HAVE DONE, ARE DOING, and PLAN TO DO TO OUR FUTURE. We do not -- and WILL not -- forget the injuries that they have inflicted upon us. We will work hard to prevent any OTHER Canadian's forgetting just how BADLY this Chretien-Rock Axis has treated the firearms community, the sick, and Canadians generally. We can -- and WILL -- run our political campaign to persuade ALL Canadians to remember the ACTIONS of Chretien, Rock and every Liberal Party MP -- right up to the day they put their ballots into the ballot box. We will NOT let this new and important demonstration of Liberal arrogance be forgotten. We WILL bring it up -- over and OVER and OVER AGAIN -- FROM NOW UNTIL THE NEXT FEDERAL ELECTION. REGARDLESS of what happens next -- and it may well be that they WILL be forced to pay more compensation -- we must keep alive the knowledge of how they TRIED to handle it. The Liberals -- every single Liberal MP -- PROVED that they believe in ABUSE OF THE SICK. Every single Liberal MP proved that - -- by voting for the Chretien-Rock "minimum solution" when they KNEW it was legally and morally WRONG. The Liberals cannot be trusted with control of health care. The Liberal agenda is to protect Liberals, not the sick. KEEP THAT MESSAGE OUT THERE, KEEP IT ACTIVE, AND PUSH IT RIGHT UP TO ELECTION DAY. It will win us a LOT of votes. Dave Tomlinson, NFA ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 13:07:05 -0600 From: Alan Harper Subject: Public Forum with M. P. There is a public forum, in the constituency of Scarboro Southwest in Toronto. Tom Wappel is the M. P. It is Monday evening @ 1930. That's May 4, 1998. The location is Robert Service Senior Public School. That's on the south side of Danforth Road, between Midland and Brimley. Mr. Wappel has said repeatedly, that C-68 is a done deal and that nobody is interested in discussing it any more. I would like to see some gun owners show up and dispute this. See you there. Al. ==============Colt - the Ultimate in point & click hardware========= = Al Harper, email - ce331@freenet.toronto.on.ca = = Box 51027, Eglinton Square, Scarboro, Ontario, Canada M1L 4T2 = ===="Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum" Appius Claudius the Blind, 281 BC=== ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 16:31:48 -0600 From: taylor_buckner@sympatico.ca Subject: Liberals What does a Liberal say if you blow in his/her ear? "Thanks for the refill." Taylor Buckner E-mail Research Papers: ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 18:31:07 -0600 From: rmcreat@istar.ca (BC NFA) Subject: Re: Firearm units prohibited from selling guns? >While reading Ms. Blatchford's column in the Toronto Sun, "No Easy Answers >in Gun Unit Probe," I noticed a line that she wrote: "The law prohibits >police officers from using firearms units to sell their weapons." > >Anyone know exactly what law she refers to? Is this in the criminal code, >or is it a provincial law? (snip) >Any thoughts? > >********************* >Charles Lee >olyar15@rogers.wave.ca Two possibilities come to mind; 1. She has inside information from the Federal Government that we (in the RFC) don't have; or 2. A misunderstanding as to exactly which firearms are referred to. The firearms issued to them or the firearms confiscated from anyone other than a police officer. Michelle Traver SSAC NFA-BC rmcreat@istar.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 18:30:56 -0600 From: lundgard@ccinet.ab.ca Subject: Possession -only license I recently received a pamphlet from the CFC. Under the topic Possession-Only License it states: "If you already have firearms and don't plan to get more you will apply for a possession-only license. This license authorizes possession of the firearms you already own and will allow you to borrow similar firearms." There is no provisio any where in this document which asks the reader to refer to the criminal code so I can safely assume I can "borrow" or "rent" firearms as in some instances a possession-only license is also an acquistion license according to this document. Of course all firearms are similar to the extent they fire a bullet down a barrel at a target. Jerrold ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 18:31:13 -0600 From: Fred Davis Subject: RE: Need more Lieberal JOKES > > Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 04:55:19 -0600 > From: Don Clarke > Subject: Need more Lieberal JOKES [big snip] A Liberal, ANY Liberal as we have seen this past week, *IS* a joke. The only thing a BIGGER joke than a Lieberal is the sheeple that voted them in! :-( (Admittedly, a MINORITY of the population, thanks to our flawed parliamentary system). Fred ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 18:31:15 -0600 From: Don Clarke Subject: Ontario Police Services Act; Firearms Charles asks; > From: Charles Lee > Subject: Firearm units prohibited from selling guns? > > While reading Ms. Blatchford's column in the Toronto Sun, "No Easy Answers > in Gun Unit Probe," I noticed a line that she wrote: "The law prohibits > police officers from using firearms units to sell their weapons." > Anyone know exactly what law she refers to? I scanned this from my copy of the Ontario May/96 publication "The Police Services Act and Related Regulations and Statutes". Notice, this copy was prepared for training purposes only. The authoritative text is set out in the official volumes. ***************************************** Firearms 134.--(l) This section applies to firearms that are in the possession of a police force because they have been found, turned in or seized. Safe-keeping, return to owner (2) The chief of police shall ensure that firearms are securely stored, and that they are returned to their owners if there is a court order or other legal requirement to that effect. Destruction (3) If all possible court proceedings relating to a firearm have been completed or the time for them has expired and there is no court order or other legal requirement governing how the firearm is to be dealt with, the chief of police shall ensure that it is destroyed promptly, unless subsection (4) applies. Firearm of special interest (4) If the chief of police considers the firearm unique, an antique, or of educational or historical value, he or she shall notifies the Director of the Centre of Forensic Sciences. Idem (5) If the Director indicates, within three months of receiving notice, that the firearm is required for the Centre's collection, the chief of police shall ensure that it is transferred there. Idem (6) If the Director indicates that the firearm is not required for the Centre's collection or fails to respond within three months of receiving notice, the chief of police shall ensure that the firearm is destroyed promptly. Disposal otherwise than by destruction (7) The chief of police may dispose of a firearm to which subsection (6) applies otherwise than by having it destroyed if he or she first obtains the Solicitor General's approval of the method of disposal. Register of firearms (8) The chief of police shall ensure that the police force keeps a register of firearms and that the following rules are followed: 1. Every firearm's description and location shall be recorded. 2. When a firearm ceases to be in the possession of the board or of a member of the police force, full particulars shall be recorded, including the name of the person who disposed of it and the date and method of disposal. 3. If the firearm is returned to its owner, his or her name, address and telephone number shall also be recorded. 4. On or before the 31st day of January in each year, a statement shall be filed with the Commission listing the firearms that have come into the possession of the police force during the preceding calendar year, indicating which firearms are still being retained and which have been disposed of' and giving the particulars of disposition. R.S.O. 1990, c. P.15, s.134. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 18:31:27 -0600 From: Alan Harper Subject: Re: Liberal Sheep > In the last two weeks I have personally seen the results of Liberal > mindset developed and firmly established within the skulls of his MPs by > our Prime Minister. I went to a townhall meeting set up by Andy Mitchell MP > Parry Sound - Muskoka who is also Minister of Parks. > This meeting was attended by only ten people up to the time my son and I > left. Your mention of 10 people attending sounds like the public forums my MP has in Toronto. I know lots of gun owners right here, in my riding, who refuse to attend a public meeting. Apathy rules. Why should an MP listen to a single voice like myself or you? 100 voices, yes, but one constituent? He knows where his bread is buttered. People don't even vote for their MP. They vote for the party they like. They make up their mind from some 10 second blurb on TV. They like the way a guy looks or the way he dresses (the party leader that is). They vote for the party. That's why the party is identified on the ballot. They should raise the voting age to 35, or administer a superficiality test. Bye. Al. ==============Colt - the Ultimate in point & click hardware========= = Al Harper, email - ce331@freenet.toronto.on.ca = = Box 51027, Eglinton Square, Scarboro, Ontario, Canada M1L 4T2 = ===="Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum" Appius Claudius the Blind, 281 BC=== ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 18:31:33 -0600 From: Mac McBride Subject: [none] Subject; Liberals Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca I caught your email on the gun digest. I am reminded by the "cleaning" remarks of the problems that occurred a few years back when a noted Liberal politician died. His party wanted to give him a big funeral, but after trying all the local undertakers they had to admit that they had a problem. Because of his many years with his snout in the public trough, it seems that the expired Liberal was literally too much to handle. There just wasn't a big enough coffin available. The problem was solved by a local reform party undertaker. He gave the Liberal an enema and buried him in a shoe box. Mac ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 18:31:41 -0600 From: "fin" Subject: Quotes Some interesting quotes from my friend, John Gayder. >From the Queen of freedom, Ayn Rand. There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible to live without breaking laws Atlas Shrugged To paraphrase Lavrenti Beria, Stalin's Chief of the NKVD,---Show me a gun owner, I'll find the crime. Was it Benjamin Franklin who said: "Your book is the epitome of logic and fact. I suggest you get out of France as fast as you can?" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 21:58:38 -0600 From: Jim Davies Subject: Guest Speaker > Pape Revolver Club recently held it's Annual Dinner in Toronto. The guest > speaker was Richard Beurling. He spoke about his brother, George "Buzz" > Beurling. > > Buzz Beurling was a very skillful pilot in WWII. He flew Spitfires in > Malta for a period of 5 months in 1942. Despite being outnumbered by the > German planes, at a ratio of 8 to 1 minimum, up to 20 to 1, Buzz shot > down 29 German planes. > IMO, If Buzz Beurling had been left alone to carry on his war he would have been on of the top aces from WW2. Apparently on of his pastimes when not on ops was hunting rats with his issue revolver, in 38 S&W. Anyone who hunts *anything* sucessfully with that caliber would have a good grasp of external ballistics. Maybe this was why he believed in getting close, whether using the 38 or the 20mm. At any rate, he was a unique individual who did not fit in the passive-canadian mold. Definately not lieberal MP material. ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V2 #372 **********************************