From owner-cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Fri May 8 15:49:44 1998 Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 15:30:32 -0600 From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V2 #383 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Content-Length: 22459 X-Lines: 584 Status: RO Cdn-Firearms Digest Friday, May 8 1998 Volume 02 : Number 383 In this issue: re: the facts of life... A reply from Brisbane ABC Evening News - May 4/98 Fw: Dear Editor Re: Worthington's 30 Apr column Here we go again Re: Federal Income tax if C-68 were a dead horse Re: Dauphin Gun Show Gun control popularity polls Peter Worthington Column Re: Police selling guns Re: Documentation Transporting Restricted Firearms [Fwd: Guns for sale] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 19:00:58 -0600 From: "David J. Wiebe" Subject: re: the facts of life... John Fowler wrote: >>Call, e-mail, fax or write your respective MPs NOW!! >Why? Don't waste your time or energy. Do something productive. Work >for a change in government. Will you guys NEVER learn the facts of life? The idea is to make each dirt suckin' liberal scumbag suffer for every indignity that they impose on us. Even if it only means that they go through an extra roll of fax paper or clear a bunch of messages from their machines. Annoy them. Just let them know that they are displeasing some of their constituents. Maybe, just maybe, by the time another "confidence vote" comes around, *someone* will have listened (and evolved gonads). David J. Wiebe DJWiebe@msn.ca DavidJW@istar.ca [Moderator: Hermaphrodites turning into men would be a first for evolution. HTB] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 05:03:24 -0600 From: Ken Pisichko Subject: A reply from Brisbane ABC Evening News - May 4/98 Here is the letter and the reply from ABC..... - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 15:23:01 +1000 From: Robert Johnston To: Ken Pisichko Subject: Re: Brisbane ABC Evening News - May 4/98 Ken Pisichko wrote: > > To: Mr. John Cameron, QSLD ABC News Director > > Hello from Canada, > > Several minutes ago I received both pleasing and regrettable news about > your TV news shown on Monday evening. > > I was pleased to hear of your broadcasting a shooting competition at > Belmont ranges. I know such activities are legal in Australia. I only wish > I could be shooting with the Australians at that range just like I did in > the 1970s when I lived in Australia. > > I was disheartened to learn about alleged anti-gun "propaganda" when > someone used a picture of an illegal-in-Australia semi-automatic military > rifle. I wonder why the ABC would resort to this type of yellow > journalism? When I watched the ABC I thought quite highly of it. The news > was factual and non-sensational. > > Now apparently things have changed. Was the photo of the > illegal-in-Australia rifle meant to provoke ant-gun sentiment? Was it > because of ignorance? Or did someone in production have an agenda? One > would think that with your resources the ABC could have easily scanned a > target shooter's kit and used that as a backdrop - after all I understand > the news item was not broadcast "live". > > Lets call a spade, a spade. This really smacks of yellow journalism and > really looks like an attempt to provoke anti-sporting rifle sentiment. > After all, this is the type of shooting that is done in the Commonwealth > Games and in the Olympics. It is not as if someone was "shooting fish in a > barrel", or as if someone was skinning an animal alive, or as if there was > a live cock fight going on - all of which are reprehensible activities. > This was a sporting event that had a negative shroud cast on it by the > introduction of extraneous, and irrelevant backdrop that had no place in > Australian (or Canadian for that matter) civilian shooting competitions. > > Thanks for your time. Perhaps you will have the time to reply. I know that > you are a busy man, but......... > > Regards, > > Ken Pisichko, Ph.D. Dear Dr Pisichko, Thank you for your correspondence regarding the ABC's coverage of the proposal to use Crown land leases for sporting shooters. As Online Editor, I have responsibility for the editorial content of our online news service. However I did forward a copy of your note to my colleagues in TV News. As you point out, ABC News did show an assault rifle in the graphic behind our newsreader. This was a mistake, and the graphic artist responsible has been told that those weapons should not be linked to stories about sporting shooters. I am advised that ABC TV News has been in contact with the Sporting Shooters Association to clarify the issue, and hope to arrange with them an opportunity to film sporting shooters with their legal weapons so we can show correct shootage in future, when covering stories about sporting shooters. Thank you for your interest in writing. Bob Johnston, Editor, ABC News Online. (for ABC TV News). ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 05:03:15 -0600 From: "W. Jon McCormick" Subject: Fw: Dear Editor - ---------- > From: W. Jon McCormick > To: 100 Mile Free Press > Subject: Dear Editor > Date: Thursday, May 07, 1998 7:59 PM > > May 7, 1998 > > > Proposed Firearms Registry > > > > Responsible firearms owners agree with your recent editorial, "Responsible > gun owners must distance themselves from the paranoia." They are doing > that in the form of the National Firearms Association which has offered a > constructive alternative to the government's costly registration program. > The NFA's is a simplified system that provides recognition of honest, > law-biding citizens. Regrettably it received a government rejection. > In place of the NFA's program the government has devised a complicated and > unworkable registration process that is doomed. The Liberal government has > spent almost 100 million dollars with a bulging staff and has yet to > register a firearm. > The problem is that any registry is a duplication of what already exists. > Handguns have been registered for decades and require special owner > permits. Shotguns and rifles are registered at the time of purchase. No > one can legally purchase any firearm without extensive investigation by a > law enforcement agency. There are millions of firearms in this country and > they can not be identified solely by a number. So, why a registry? > The Liberal government was being heavily criticized by voters to do > something about rising crime. Allan Rock had a relative killed by a > firearm. Put the two together and you have the present legislation. > Street cops know that the legislation will not curb violence and will not > remove any firearms from illicit users. The Ontario Attorney General has > notified Ottawa that his government will not take time and resources from > law enforcement for implementation of Bill C-68. Numerous other provinces > and territories have joined in this rejection. Presently Alberta's court > challenge is waiting a decision. Lawyers are in the wings waiting for the > Bill's passage with challenges to the Canadian Charter of Rights. > Distancing ourselves from the paranoia? You bet! > The legislation is unworkable and will cost taxpayers hundreds of millions > of dollars before the law is finally repealed by our highest court. > > W. Jon McCormick > Lone Butte > > 395-3516 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 05:03:16 -0600 From: lundgard@ccinet.ab.ca Subject: Re: Worthington's 30 Apr column >PETER WORTHINGTON'S column of April 30 focused on a letter written last snip >Firearms were classified as "involved in crime" if they were directly or >indirectly linked with an offence. Hence, the police might have taken the >firearms from the basement of a drug dealer upon his arrest. Whether or not >they were actually used in a crime, the firearms would have been shown as >recovered in criminal circumstance. The RCMP reported a different set of >figures simply because it limited its analysis to cases where recovered >firearms were actually used in crime. If the police never had possession of the firearms, how can the firearms be "recovered" by the police at a crime scene? >The RCMP reported a different set of >figures simply because it limited its analysis to cases where recovered >firearms were actually used in crime So in effect, the inflated numbers published by the Justice department were firearms found at a crime scene but were not involved with the crime, right! Then why were these inflated numbers portrayed as being "involved in crime"? This is very much like counting all of the knives in a restraunt as being involved when a stabbing occurs in a restraunt.... snip lundgard@ccinet.ab.ca Peace River, Alberta, Canada ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 05:03:42 -0600 From: rmcreat@istar.ca (BC NFA) Subject: Here we go again Once again the BC AG is going to have a Firearms Amnesty starting the 11th of May. Again, no questions asked. Never mind the camera system aimed at you, that won't be used against you. sarcasm mode off; We had the Provincial Liberal convention here in the lower mainland last week. Over-all, it appeared to be more of an NDP bashing session than anything else. Very little of what they were all about or where the party stood. Anybody else have any luck? On another note; Here is an interesting scenerio. I had a customer purchase his first restricted firearm about two weeks ago now. He took his receipt with all pertinant information to his firearms officer for the registration process. His firearms officer told him he would not allow him to have restricted firearms and was going to reject his application. When this man called to tell me there was a problem, I suggested we give the registration form a week to get to Ottawa then call. A week went by, FRAS may have it, they aren't telling (whether they actually know or not is the real question). I called Corp. Fraser in Langley (the Firearms Officer) to find out what the problem was. He told me he was going to reject this application for restricted firearms registration becuase, in his opinion, this man should not be allowed to own restricted firearms. He has no objection to him owning hunting rifles and shotguns. I asked him if the new law had been put into force already without my knowing? He said "no". I told him that what he was suggesting is part of the new regulations and that if they were not in effect then there was something about the current law that I was unaware of and that I should be aware of; what he was telling me makes me question the validity of any FAC issued to date. He then said that he could only offer his suggestions to Ottawa for them to make their decision which he would have to abide by. There are rumors of firearms officers being instructed to delay and discourage first time restricted registrations as much as possible. The lesson here is the tactic to discourage. I think this 'new' firearms officer has turned the page of events a little too quickly. Yes, this man has been told about Cc 337. Michelle Traver SSAC NFA-BC rmcreat@istar.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 05:03:54 -0600 From: "Jean-Francois Avon" Subject: Re: Federal Income tax - ------------ excerpts from CFD V2#382--------------- Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 19:00:55 -0600 From: Howard & Sharon Sims Subject: Federal Income tax [snip] ...Toronto business man started legal action against rev-can, court file #T-3025-93, for stealling his property in the 1970's because he refused to pay illegal federal income tax. On November 28-1997 the workers from rev-can paid this guy the $20 million he had demanded. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- I Infoseek-ed for "#T-3025-93" and got that URL: It's worth a quick look... :-) Ciao jfa ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 05:03:56 -0600 From: kdesolla@cyberus.ca (Keith P. de Solla) Subject: if C-68 were a dead horse > > Dakota tribal wisdom says that when you discover you are riding a dead > horse, the best strategy is to dismount. > > However, in government they often try other strategies with dead > horses, including the following; > > 1. Buying a bigger whip. > 2. Changing riders. > 3. Saying things like "This is the way we have always ridden this horse" > 4. Appointing a committee to study the horse. > 5. Arranging to visit other sites to see how they ride dead horses. > 6. Appointing a study group to revive the dead horse. > 7. Increasing the standards required to ride dead horses. > 8. Creating a training session to increase their riding ability. > 9. Pass legislation declaring that "This horse is not dead." > 10. Blaming the horse's parents. > 11. Harnessing several dead horses together for increased speed. > 12. Declaring that "No horse is too dead to beat." > 13. Provide additional funding to increase the horse's performance. > 14. Do a Cost Analysis Study to see if contractors can ride it cheaper. > 15. Declare the horse is "better, faster and cheaper" dead. > 16. Form a committee to find uses for dead horses. > 17. Revisit the performance requirements for horses. > 18. Say this horse was procured with cost as an independent variable. > 19. Blame the horse farm on which it was born. > 20. Promote the dead horse to a supervisory position. > > > Keith P. de Solla, P.Eng - NFA Field Officer kdesolla@cyberus.ca http://www.cyberus.ca/~kdesolla/eohc.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 05:03:58 -0600 From: Tom Cohoe Subject: Re: Dauphin Gun Show Bud Melless wrote: >>Inkey's the Mayor of Dauphin, Manitoba.<< Not any more. He's now the Reform MP for Dauphin-Swan River. Tom Cohoe ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 05:04:00 -0600 From: WERNER BURGHARDT Subject: Gun control popularity polls >Anne Mclellan says %80 percent of Canadians are in favour gun registration >and gun control. I doubt that is true, but if it was; Who Cares? Since >when are the rights of one group at the mercy of a larger group? As a >Supreme Court Justice recently said; "Five people in a life raft cannot, as >an act of democracy, vote in favour of eating the sixth." She is right "Gun control" not Law c68, and there is a big difference. The Oldtimer. Werner ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 05:04:03 -0600 From: loachman@netcom.ca Subject: Peter Worthington Column Peter Worthington's column of 7 May 1998, entitled "Guns and crime: Statistics skewed", was, for the most part, excellent, and I thank him for it. Firearms owners have been trying to get this message out for years, with little success. I do, however, take exception to his statement that "assault rifles and fully automatic weapons should be banned, not just registered. It should be a crime to even possess these warlike weapons that feed perverted machoism." There are approximately 4,400 legally owned fully automatic firearms in private hands in Canada. Not one of them has EVER been used in a crime. The owners take their security very, very seriously indeed. "Perverted machoism"? No basis in fact for that statement, which insults a group of the most level-headed, honest, and law-abiding citizens imaginable. Don't believe that assessment? Then go and apply for a Firearms Acquistion Certificate and see what is involved in this process. I have a lot of respect for Mr Worthington. I enjoy his columns immensely. Occasionally, as in this instance, I don't agree with him 100%. It's a pity that one small statement detracted from an otherwise outstanding column. Mark L Horstead Newmarket, Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 15:29:37 -0600 From: Dave Kratky Subject: Re: Police selling guns > Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 04:54:51 -0600 > From: Charles Lee > Subject: Firearm units prohibited from selling guns? > Anyone know exactly what law she refers to? Is this in the criminal code, > or is it a provincial law? Police here in BC will auction off recovered > why they also can't sell the firearms that they "recover" at public > auctions. Apart from the political incorrectness, I see no legal reason > why they cannot do so. After all, owning and acquiring firearms are still > legal, you would still need an FAC, and the police will make some money. A while ago, there was a plot afoot amounst the police forces to sell their old revolvers to civilians, and to police forces in other countries (This was the Toronto cops) MASSIVE "public" (ex. Politicos) protest/outcry against the police putting more "guns onto our streets!" And how crime would skyrocket and blah blah blah. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 15:29:46 -0600 From: David A Tomlinson Subject: Re: Documentation Transporting Restricted Firearms > I was wondering it you could clear up this question for me. When >transporting a restricted firearm to an approved gun club what >documentation must I have with me and do I require the originals or will >photocopies do? 1. A PHOTOCOPY of your Permit to Carry (issued annually) OR Permit to Transport (one-shot trips), AND 2. a PHOTOCOPY of the registration certificate for the firearm. The laws refer to you as the "holder" of such a document -- but do NOT require you to carry it around, or even to PROVE that you are a "holder" at any given time. Your photocopy should be enough for any police officer who wants to check. NEVER let the original of any such document out of your hands. If you must show it (as you must, if a police officer requests that you do), hang onto it like grim death. It is YOUR document, and it cannot legally be taken from you unless it is formally seized. The law says that you must HAVE the original document -- but NOT that you must be able to produce it on demand. Because that type of document is so valuable to you -- and because loss or destruction of it is so serious -- you should keep it in your safety deposit box or safe, and carry PHOTOCOPIES. NEVER let the police or anyone else get their hands on the original of any green registration certificate. It is your PROOF that the firearm is registered, and you do not want some careless person to "lose" it. ALWAYS carry, use and if necessary surrender PHOTOCOPIES. Dave Tomlinson, NFA Simon Jester says, "What terrible person peed on Jean Chretien's shoe? Ooops -- It was me!" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 15:30:05 -0600 From: "Dave Kratky (Marauder)" Subject: [Fwd: Guns for sale] My appologies to anyone trying to reach me re: Guns for sale recently. Email address and phone # change. Anyhow: I am moving in 2-3 weeks, and must be rid of these guns one way or another by that time. No reasonable offer will be refused! Please note that all over 5 round magazines are pinned to only hold 5 rounds. Size (ex. 30 rounder) is given for reference. International Harvester M1 Garand - Semi-auto, .30-06. Excellent+ condition. One of the few firearms allowed to have an over 5 round magazine! Comes with sling, brass, dies, stripper clips, grenade launcher w. sight, as well as a very nice long chrome dress bayonet w. green scabard in virtually new condition. (USMC I was told) General Motors M1 Cabine - Semi-auto, .30 Cabine. Excellent condition, 19" barrel (Unrestricted). No flash supressor or bayonet lug. Close combat sights. (Was told this gun was used by the west German police force.) Have at least 5 magazines (15 rounders. some 5's and a 30) likely more. Also comes with sling, brass, and over 200 rounds of ammunition. Norinco M14 - Excellent gun, only 200 rounds fired. Comes with nicely done up fibreglass stock, extra plain fibreglass stock, scope mount, weaver rings, Tasco 3x12x40 scope, sling, dies, manual & cleaning kit. Have at least 3 Mags. (1 20 rounder, 2 5 rounders.) Seems very accurate. Norinco SKS - Semi-Auto, 7.62x39. Fixed 5 round magazine. Excellent condition, requires new trigger spring. Synthetic folding stock, bayonet, AK-74 style muzzle break, also some brass. Norinco SKS - Semi-Auto, 7.62x39. Fixed 5 round magazine. Like new condition. Synthetic folding stock, blade bayonet, muzzle break and bipod. Appears unfired. Norinco SKS-D - Semi-Auto, 7.62x39. Takes AK-47 magazines. Nice sporter stock, no bayonet lug. Comes with at least 2 30 round magazines. Maverick Model 88 12 Guage Shotgun - Pump, 3". 32" barrel. Excellent condition. Maverick Model 88 12 Guage Shotgun - Pump, 3". Needs new barrel. Egyptian Hakim - Semi-auto, 8mm Mauser. Very good condition. 10 Round box magazine. Swedish Lundgerman - Semi-Auto, 6.5x55 swede. Metal in excellent condition, modified pisol grip stock. Stock requires repair, but is fireable in currrent condition. 10 round box magazine. Swedish Mauser (1910) - Bolt action, 6.5x55 Swede. Excellent + condition. Bolt in this one almost looks chromed. Really sweet gun, shoots like a charm. 5 round fixed magazine. Russian M-91/30 - Bolt action, 7.62x54R. Very good condition. 5 round fixed magazine. CZ52/57 - Semi-Auto, 7.62x39. Pretty near mint condition. Never seen one of these guns in this kind of shape before. At least 1 10 round box magazine. Saxon 150 pound crossbow. Light, compact, and accurate. Other stuff ~~~~~~~ Exact replica of a CAR-16 assault rifle. Fires 8mm blanks. Select fire. Quite the realistic little gun. Aluminum with plastic hardware. Very good condition, needs a new hammer. MP5 Replica, soft air. All plasic. American flak jacket, 2 US steel helmets, one with chin strap & new cover, other w. faded cover, chin strap. Bushnell Lytespeed 400 laser range finding binoculars. (Sweet) RCBS Partner single stage reloading kit. Press, powder measure, case holders, lube tray, speer manual, hornady trimmer and tumbler. Approx 900 rounds of .308 Nato ball & 900 rounds of 7.62x39 ball. If interested, please email me back privately. Thanks - -- Dave Kratky o/o VAM Computers. (519) 940-3097 ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V2 #383 **********************************