From owner-cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mon May 18 08:57:18 1998 Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 08:25:34 -0600 From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V2 #404 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Content-Length: 22315 X-Lines: 554 Status: RO Cdn-Firearms Digest Monday, May 18 1998 Volume 02 : Number 404 In this issue: IPSC in the news Vipers CFDv2-399 CCW permits More fun than we can stand Re: Survey:March on Parliament Hill Ignorance of Bill C-68 22 SEP 98 RALLY IN OTTAWA AUSTRALIAN One Nation Party Gun Policy Rocky on the rocks Fw: BCWF ALERT Moderator's farewell ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 08:23:24 -0600 From: Kevin Watson Subject: IPSC in the news IPSC about to come under fire in the US. Kevin Watson, NFA Ontario. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 08:24:10 -0600 From: someoneelse@somewhereelse Subject: Vipers Someone@somewhere said: >the DOJ only accepts data (information) which supports their political position? >the DOJ rejects any data (information) which contradicts their position? >From bitter experience, I have to add, "so do family and friends, since most of them are passive and always politically correct". [Moderator: But we don't choose our family, and they are under no legal obligation to be honest. HTB] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 08:24:12 -0600 From: BChow2or81 Subject: CFDv2-399 CCW permits >In almost every state in the US that allows CCW, CCW permit holders MUST complete a safety course .... The latest Shooting Times magazine has a good article by Dick Metcalf on this question. See June 1998, p.24, and cont'd on pp.26, 28, 30 & 31. I noted 1 error - he included Washington State in both CCW & non-CCW States, when in fact it has issued CCWs for years. Unhappily, it has recently cancelled CCWs for Canadians (non-residents of the State). Looks like retaliation for our appalling treatment of Americans, but I don't know the real motivation for the move. We're still allowed to transport & carry to hunt and to compete (and maybe to train, but I haven't checked that out yet).... Bud. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 08:24:14 -0600 From: BChow2or81 Subject: More fun than we can stand DAT said: >C-68 is going to be FUN. Aesop said : > Some boys were throwing stones at frogs in a pond. An old frog got up on a lily-pad and said, "Why are you doing this?" "Because it's fun", cried the boys. Said the old frog, "It may be fun for you, but it's not fun for us!" And so it may be with the long-suffering [beep]-owners. The legal eagles will have fun, but if govt acts as it has undoubtedly planned, [beep]-owners surely won't! They'll be picked off one by one, with confiscations, litigation, plea-bargaining, fines, publicity, and other unmentionable forms of harassment. How many can stand all that, mentally and financially - with all their families and life-long friends, ever politically correct, shunning them? So, it behooves all people to go in swinging and not rest until C-68 is struck down (with C-17 etc. too) which means getting ACTIVE in every constituency to change arrogant or frightened or self-serving "representatives" to others who can understand what's going on and what needs to be done. See you there, and it won't be in the pond. Bud. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 08:24:54 -0600 From: "Brian J. Given" Subject: Re: Survey:March on Parliament Hill >Questions : >1. Do you think that it would be good idea to hold a FED UP II > Rally in Ottawa ? Yes No YES >2. Will you support the FED UP II Rally on Sept. 22 in Ottawa? > (Financially/Personally/Organizationally) Yes No YES > My only reservation is with regard to the numbers. Last time the unofficial RCMP count was 13,000 but the Citizen reported 6,000. It will be important to get real committments so that our support does not appear to have diminished. It will also be important to have an effective way of counting the turnout so that the media can't lowball us again. You can count on me to be there. As a researcher who has done work with shooters I would also be willing to help with the media work. Onward! Brian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 08:25:08 -0600 From: Karl Schrader Subject: Ignorance of Bill C-68 Re.: Widespread ignorance of C-68 =========================== Referring to the excellent posting of John Lemay in CFD # 399, which points out that the general public is blissfully unaware of what is in store for our country if C-68 is not repealed and replaced with a sensible and practical gun-control system. Now, if somebody has the ability to set up a web-page, explaining the dangerous precedent set by Bill C-68, this webpage should be labelled in such a way that a search engine can find it under several different categories for people who not normally are very concerned with guns. We can preach here until the cows come home. Anybody on this digest is aware of the insidiousness of C-68, We have to reach the average citizen who is normally to pre- occupied to keep his job and who has "neither the time nor the inclination" ( a phrase used by my M.P., a certain David Pratt, Liberal, replying to my correspondence ) to recognize the inherent danger of Bill C-68. I hope, I am not preaching into a vacuum even here. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 08:25:10 -0600 From: David A Tomlinson Subject: 22 SEP 98 RALLY IN OTTAWA It is vitally important that every member of the firearms community and that every media outlet be AWARE of the 22 Sep 98 rally well before it comes to Ottawa. This rally is a repeat of the 22 Sep 94 rally four years ago -- the one the federal Liberals ignored when they rammed the defective Bill C-68 firearms control legislation throught Parliament. This rally is a rousing statement by the firearms community, telling anyone with eyes or ears that we in the firearms community are a huge voting bloc, and that WE ARE NOT SATISFIED WITH THE PERFORMANCE OF OUR EMPLOYEES -- The Liberal MPs and their Leader. Peter C Newman wrote a book on how the Canadian voter's attitude changed from 1985 to 1995 -- "from deference to defiance." More and more Canadian voters are fed up with Ottawa's descent into debt and the foolishness of the Parties that led us into that financial swamp -- with Ottawa's constant drive to "control" every aspect of the voter's life -- and with Ottawa's increasing tendency to use coercion instead of leadership. This rally will be a demonstration of how Chretien has been unable to reverse that trend toward contempt for his Party's arrogance, ignorance and incompetence. David A Tomlinson National President National Firearms Association (403)439-1394, fax (403)439-4091 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 08:25:16 -0600 From: ALERT (via Dat) Subject: AUSTRALIAN One Nation Party Gun Policy NFA COMMENT: Note how militancy and activism result in COURTSHIP of the firearms community by polliticians. ACCEPTANCE of abuse does not have that effect -- it merely encourages MORE abuse of the firearms community by politicians and their minions. This is a classic effect of political ACTIVISM. Study it, and then ARRANGE FOR YOUR TICKETS TO OTTAWA FOR THE 22 SEP 98 RALLY. Remember -- the Reform Party Leader, Conservative Party Leader and NDP Leader ALL issued letters on Party letterhead, signed by the Leader, COURTING the firearms community vote in the LAST federal election. We are already politically important -- and the bigger the 22 Sep rally, the more IMPORTANT we will become in the eyes of politicians. The TRUE power of the firearms community lies in how many votes the politicans BELIEVE we control. A huge rally will make them think like this: "If they can get this many people to actually COME TO OTTAWA and STAND UP IN PUBLIC for what they want -- if they can ORGANIZE this many people -- Oh, Lord, think about how many voters they have who could not afford to come, or could not get time off work, or were too busy to come... THIS IS AN ORGANIZED VOTING BLOC, AND IT'S A BIG ONE, AND I WANT TO HAVE THEM VOTING FOR MY PARTY." That is what pulled Pauline Hanson (below) on side. THINK about it. Dave Tomlinson, NFA _____________________________________________ State News Hanson's guns for life The Sunday Mail PAULINE Hanson's One Nation Party has pledged to scrap tough national gun laws and reinstate access to semi-automatic and military-style weapons. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 08:25:18 -0600 From: Jim Davies Subject: Rocky on the rocks For those participating in the death watch of a well known lieberal icon, the following excerpts from Canoe may be of interest. Funny how bullies never seem to learn, repeating their tactics until they antagonize a group powerful enough to strike back effectively. THE WORM IN THE LIBERAL PARTY By MICHAEL HARRIS.. The Sun's national affairs columnist. I am told that federal Health Minister Rocky Bubonic vented his anger at Hep C spokesmen this week after his disgraceful health ministers' meeting ended in the usual wormy rhetoric and nothing more. Using language these victims of dirty government blood found offensive, the minister apparently berated them... [the following]  description of him offered by Jeremy Beaty, president of the Hepatitis C Society. Make book on it: These words are Rocky Bubonic's political epitaph:"... But now we are seeing his true colors. Where is he coming from? What sort of a minister is he? What sort of a person is he?"  Good politicians listen. Power-proud Liberals dictate, bully, and ignore. Fortunately, the truth keeps percolating to the surface. Now Rocky Bubonic has another major fact to drown like an unwanted kitten. ...Have the ruling Grits become such bloodless technocrats, such neo-secular politicians, that they have lost the ability to even see the utter moral bankruptcy of Rocky Bubonic's Hep C policy?   ...Read the Wasteland Rocky and reflect awhile.   [Moderator: It has often been said that "Gun Control" is a litmus test for politicians. Those willing to embrace nonsensical "gun control" propositions will also do other stupid things that will eventually get them un-elected. Rock may rage at all of his supposed enemies, but the public is beginning to wonder. HTB] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 08:25:27 -0600 From: "W. Jon McCormick" Subject: Fw: BCWF ALERT Sunday May 17 For your information. Hope you will spread the word to combat this new campaign. Jon - ---------- > From: Holdstock, John > To: John Holdstock > Subject: BCWF ALERT > Date: Friday, May 15, 1998 7:55 AM > > Western Canada Wilderness Committee has announced that they will begin a new > campaign to ban grizzly bear hunting in British Columbia. This new campaign > will not be a referendum, such as they used in their last attempt to ban all > bear hunting in this province. Anthony Marr stated that they will mail out > cards to the public and ask them to indicate their opposition to grizzly > bear hunting and send one copy in to Premier Clark, with a second copy going > back to WCWC and a third copy to be given to a friend. Marr intends to kick > off the campaign on Tuesday, May 19th at Nelson, with a second meeting in > Kelowna on Thursday, May 21st. He indicated that he would proceed up the > Interior from there. During an interview on CBC radio, Marr said that he > hoped to solicit support from hunters, many of whom he felt would support > WCWC's program. > > This of course is just a new ploy for an old agenda. I would hope that all > hunters are knowledgeable enough about the issues these days not to be > swayed by the emotional arguments and questionable figures undoubtedly > ensue. > > One of the things that becomes clear when you listen to the rhetoric of many > of the preservationist groups is that they have tied grizzlies into the > logging issue. If they can make grizzlies a big enough icon and get them > completely protected, they will use that as a lever to set up "grizzly > sanctuaries" and through that close down logging as well as any other > resource use in that area. That has become apparent in their tactics to stop > logging in the mid-coast area. > > The B.C. Wildlife Federation intends to fight this battle right down the > line. We need to get the facts and figures out to the general public and > show them why hunting, whether it is for deer or grizzlies is a valuable and > necessary part of modern wildlife management. The danger is that it is > always difficult to counter emotional arguments with reason and logic. > > It would be helpful if members would keep the Federation office informed > about what is happening in their area, in order that we can track the > campaign. Newspaper clippings would be helpful, along with information on > meetings being set up. The Federation's fax number is 604 533-1592. > > Following is a letter that is being sent out initially to all MLAs in the > province and to our clubs. > > GRIZZLY BEAR UPDATE > > What is really happening with grizzly bears in British Columbia? Are they > actually declining as some organizations would have the public believe or in > fact are they stable or even increasing throughout their current range? > > To begin with, the last estimates derived by the provincial wildlife branch > determined that there are 10,000 to 13,000 grizzly bears in this province. > These are province-wide estimates from the wildlife biologists working for > the Ministry of Environment, Lands and Parks. There is no question that > these figures are conservative. They are also out of date, and the province > is currently updating the grizzly bear estimates based on new findings. Over > the past several years, the province has spent millions of dollars from the > Forest Renewal fund, inventorying bears. Professional wildlife biologists, > doing inventory work with grizzlies, are invariably finding higher > populations than the previous estimates indicated. The so-called > preservationist or anti-hunting groups will argue that there “could be” as > few as 6,000, or even 4,000 grizzlies living in British Columbia. These > numbers have no basis in fact and are being perpetuated by some individuals > and organizations to further their own agendas of anti-hunting and > anti-logging. These alarmist estimates were flatly refuted by grizzly bear > scientists and experts at the 2nd meeting of the Grizzly Bear Conservation > Strategy Group stakeholders’ meeting in November 1997. As the preliminary > findings of the intensive FRBC funded bear inventories are showing, the > current estimate will either be upheld or even increased. > Some well meaning people seem to believe that if the province eliminates all > hunting of grizzlies that the bears will prosper and live in peace with man. > This is not only untrue, it is also dangerous for both the bears and humans. > Hunting of bears has the tendency to remove the more aggressive bears from > the population. Numerous studies as well as practical experience has shown > that if there is no hunting component to bear management, these large > carnivores will increasingly learn to become more aggressive. The result > will be more human/bear conflict. More bear caused injuries, less human > tolerance for bears and an increased incidence in destroying "nuisance" or > "problem" bears in this province. > > This may not immediately impact someone living in greater Vancouver, but for > those people who live, work or recreate in the interior of British Columbia > it is of serious concern. Workers’ Compensation Board staff in the northeast > part of the province report that they have seen a 50% increase in bear > encounters over the past five years. We are already seeing more bear/human > interactions and more Parks closures due to bear encounters. If bear > encounters continue to increase in B.C., we will see more Parks and Forest > Service recreation areas closed for longer periods of time simply because of > the problem of personal liability law suits. > > Another aspect of the preservationists' plan is to use their attack on > grizzly hunting to stop resource extraction in British Columbia. They have > no concerns with bear/human conflicts, because they believe that large areas > of the province should be set aside as bear sanctuaries, where there would > be extremely limited human access. This would mean a reduction in resource > use such as forest harvesting or mining, and severe limits on commercial or > public recreational use. This would put more pressure on the already > overtaxed provincial economy and put pressure on remaining resource > management areas > > Preservationist groups have tried to convince the general public that forest > harvesting is detrimental to grizzly bear survival. Bear researcher, Gary > Shelton, in his excellent book, “Bear Attacks – The deadly truth’, notes > that forest harvesting activity can actually increase bear populations in > the wetter ecosystem of the province because of the forage created. Even in > the East Kootenays, which has been logged and heavily roaded over the years, > grizzly populations are certainly stable, if not increasing. Forest > harvesting if done to modern standards does not decrease bear populations. > The real danger to grizzly bear populations is the destruction of vital > habitat. The bears would be better served if the environmental organizations > that spend their time trying to force personal anti-hunting philosophies on > the rest of the province would expend their energies toward more positive > endeavours, such as purchasing wildlife habitat and supporting scientific > wildlife management policies in British Columbia. > > GRIZZLY BEAR FACT SHEET > > Estimated population: (Province of British Columbia) > 1978 8,000 > 1998 10,000 to 13,000 > This does not necessarily indicate that the grizzly population has increased > by this amount in the 20 years, but may reflect the results of increased > inventory work. > > Grizzly bear harvest: > Hunting licences sold – approximately 1,800 each year. > Legal harvest – 212 bears in 1997. (Resident & non-resident hunters). > Conservation Officer kills re problem bears – approximately 50 bears per > year. > Estimated unreported kills – 90 bears per year. > Total grizzly bear mortality – approximately 350 bears per year. > Sustainable mortality level – 3.8% to 8% (Based on the population estimate > of 13,000 bears, this means that an minimum mortality level would be 494 > bears.) > > Flathead Grizzly bear study: > This study has been ongoing since 1978. The initial population estimate in > 1987 was 95 grizzlies. Research has shown that there has been a yearly net > growth in this population of 8%. Although official Ministry estimates have > not been changed, it is now believed by researchers that the population in > the study area is at capacity, which is approximately 170 bears. > > For further information, please contact the B.C. Wildlife Federation. > > Phone: 604 533-2293 > Fax: 604 533-1592 > e-mail: bcwf@istar.ca > > > > John B. Holdstock > jholdsto@bctree.com > The world is run by those who show up. > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 08:25:20 -0600 From: taylor_buckner@sympatico.ca Subject: Moderator's farewell My wife and I have bought a house in Vermont and will be moving there before the end of June. Since I feel it is inappropriate for an American living in the U.S. to be the moderator of the "Canadian" firearms Digest I would like to invite you to become the Moderator. If you would like to do it, please apply to Skeeter . I have loved this job, have edited almost 500 Digests, have come to feel connected with the Canadian Recreational Firearms community in a very intimate way. There is no better way to keep your fingers on the pulse of the RFC than to be Moderator of the Digest. I will continue in the position until a new Moderator is chosen, or until 1 June 1998. Unfortunately the logistics of moving, buying and selling houses, dealing with the BATF for the importation of firearms, has come to occupy much of my time. I will be sending the Digest a list of firearms for sale which for one reason or another are not allowed in the U.S., and if any are of interest I'll hope to hear from you. Although no place is perfect, I had a dream one night that the government trusted me to be a responsible firearms owner, that taxes had fallen by half, and that the language I spoke did not need to be regulated. When I woke up I realized that this dream was unlikely to come true in Quebec, Canada. I have loved living in Canada for 31 years, I love my home and farm in the Eastern Townships of Quebec, I have no personal conflicts with anyone in my environment, but I have come to realize that I belive in individual, rather than collective rights, that government does not "need" to be so intrusive, and that I can make better use of my limited funds than the government can. I sense, from reading the submission to the Digest, a new optimism about defeating C-68. I hope it will happen. I worry that the CfGC will stage (yet another!) weepy press conference on the morning of the September 22 "Fed Up" rally to steal press coverage. You might want to think of how to counter this. So, friends, this is my farewell. If you think you would be a good Moderator, and it is an important job, please let Skeeter know. Best regards to all, Taylor. Taylor Buckner, Moderator, Canadian Firearms Digest E-mail Research Papers ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V2 #404 **********************************