From - Thu Nov 12 11:48:39 1998 Received: from broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca [198.169.128.1]) by skatter.USask.Ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA05749; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 16:47:57 -0600 (CST) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA08859; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 16:37:46 -0600 Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 16:37:46 -0600 Message-Id: <199811112237.QAA08859@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca> X-Authentication-Warning: broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca: majordomo set sender to owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca using -f From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V2 #691 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Status: O X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 360c873d00008742 Cdn-Firearms Digest Wednesday, November 11 1998 Volume 02 : Number 692 In this issue: PETITION - DES DROITS DE PROPRIETE COMMUNIQUE - Le 10 novembre 1998 Alienating vs. Recruiting STOPPING THE TRAFFIC, FAC approval suspension until Jan '99 Y2K, social unrest and guns ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 16:37:04 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: PETITION - DES DROITS DE PROPRIETE PETITION A LA CHAMBRE DES COMMUNES DU CANADA REUNIE EN PARLEMENT NOUS, SOUSSIGNES, CITOYENS DU CANADA, attirons l'attention de la Chambre sur le fait : QUE le 10 decembre 1948, l'Assemblee des Nations Unies a approuve la Declaration universelle des droits de l'homme dont l'article 17 qui dit ceci : (1) Toute personne, aussi bien seule qu'en collectivite, a droit a la propriete. (2) Nul ne peut etre arbitrairement prive de sa propriete. Le gouvernement federal n'a pas respecte pleinement l'article 17; QUE l'expert en matiere constitutionnelle, le professeur Peter Hogg, a ecrit que l'omission des droits de propriete de l'article 7 de la Charte des droits et libertes en reduit considerablement la portee. Cela signifie que l'article 7 ne prevoit aucune garantie d'indemnisation ou ni aucune procedure equitable en cas de prise d'un bien par le gouvernement. Cela signifie que l'article 7 n'offre aucune garantie de traitement equitable par les tribunaux ou les autorites qui possedent des pouvoirs sur les interets purement economiques des particuliers ou des organisations. Il en resulte un article 7 ou il faut interpreter la liberte comme ne comprenant pas la propriete, ni la liberte contractuelle ni, en bref, la liberte economique; QUE l'auteur de renom, Ayn Rand, a ecrit que le droit a la vie est la source de tous les droits et que le droit de propriete contribue a leur mise en oeuvre. Sans le droit de propriete, aucun autre droit n'est possible; PAR CONSEQUENT, vos petitionnaires demandent au Parlement d'appuyer le projet de loi d'initiative parlementaire C-452 qui a ete presente par le depute de Yorkton-Melville afin de renforcer la protection des droits de propriete dans la Declaration canadienne des droits et plus precisement de garantir a toute personne (1) le droit a la jouissance de ses biens, (2) le droit de ne pas etre privee de ses biens sans avoir eu la possibilite d'etre entendue lors d'une audition impartiale, sans que le montant de l'indemnite ne soit etabli de maniere impartiale et paye dans un delai raisonnable apres la depossession du bien, et (3) le droit de s'adresser a un tribunal si ses droits de propriete n'ont pas ete respectes. Signature (Pas de lettres moulees) Adresse (Adresse postale complete) 1. -------------------- _________________________________ ____________________________________ 2. _________________________________ ____________________________________ 3. _________________________________ ____________________________________ 4 _________________________________ ____________________________________ 5.-------------------- _________________________________ ____________________________________ 6. _________________________________ ____________________________________ 7. -------------------- _________________________________ ____________________________________ 8. _________________________________ ____________________________________ 9.-------------------- _________________________________ ____________________________________ 10. _________________________________ ____________________________________ 11.-------------------- _________________________________ ____________________________________ 12. _________________________________ ____________________________________ 13.-------------------- _________________________________ ____________________________________ 14. _________________________________ ____________________________________ 15.-------------------- _________________________________ ____________________________________ 16. _________________________________ ____________________________________ 17.-------------------- _________________________________ ____________________________________ 18. _________________________________ ____________________________________ 19.-------------------- _________________________________ ____________________________________ 20. _________________________________ ____________________________________ 21.-------------------- _________________________________ ____________________________________ 22. _________________________________ ____________________________________ 23.-------------------- _________________________________ ____________________________________ 24. _________________________________ ____________________________________ 25.-------------------- _________________________________ ____________________________________ Nota : Seul l'original des signatures et des adresses manuscrites est accepte. Tous les signataires doivent indiquer leur adresse. La petition ne doit pas comporter de marques d'effacement, de signatures biffees ni de modifications au texte. Pour etre valable, chaque petition doit compter au moins 25 signatures. L'objet de la petition doit etre explique sur chaque feuille de signatures et d'adresses. VEUILLEZ RETOURNER SANS AFFRANCHISSEMENT POSTAL A VOTRE DEPUTE, CHAMBRE DES COMMUNES, OTTAWA, K1A 0A6, OU A : GARRY BREITKREUZ, DEPUTE DE YORKTON-MELVILLE, EDIFICE WELLINGTON, PIECE 252, CHAMBRE DES COMMUNES, OTTAWA (ONT.) K1A 0A6. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 16:37:12 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: COMMUNIQUE - Le 10 novembre 1998 COMMUNIQUE Le 10 novembre 1998 Pour diffusion immediate L'ENREGISTREMENT DES ARMES A FEU EMPIETE SUR LE DROIT A LA VIE PRIVEE ET MET EN PERIL LA SECURITE DE MILLIONS DE GENS Yorkton - Aujourd'hui, Garry Breitkreuz, depute de Yorkton-Melville, a exprime publiquement ses preoccupations concernant la protection de la vie privee et la securite de tous les Canadiens, en particulier des sept millions de proprietaires d'armes a feu respectueux de la loi. < Depuis le 9 juillet, j'ai depose quatre plaintes aupres du Commissaire a la protection de la vie privee. Le gouvernement semble resolu a faire entrer en vigueur le projet de loi C-68, la Loi sur les armes a feu, le 1er decembre. Je pense qu'il n'est que juste que les honnetes citoyens soient pleinement informes de la menace que cela represente pour leur vie privee et leur securite - la securite de leur famille, de leur foyer et de leurs biens >, a declare Breitkreuz. Les questions que Breitkreuz a pose aux Commissaire a la protection de la vie privee sont les suivantes : * 9 juillet 1998 - Des mesures de protection de la vie privee sont-elles prevues dans le nouveau systeme de delivrance de permis pour les armes a feu? * 22 juillet 1998 - La vie privee et la securite des proprietaires d'armes a feu sont-elles menacees par les < verificateurs > volontaires? * 17 aout 1998 - La securite informatique du Bureau d'enregistrement des armes a feu. * 30 octobre 1998 - La protection de la vie privee mise en peril par les formulaires d'enregistrement des armes a feu a retourner par la poste. Le Commissaire a la protection de la vie privee a accuse reception des plaintes de Breitkreuz mais n'y a pas encore repondu. < Le temps nous presse >, a declare Breitkreuz. < Il nous reste moins d'un mois avant l'entree en vigueur de cette mesure, et des millions de Canadiens ont besoin de savoir si la Charte et la Loi sur la protection de la vie privee vont proteger ou non leurs droits a la vie privee. > En 1984, la Cour supreme du Canada avait declare que la garantie contre les fouilles, les perquisitions ou les saisies abusives prevue a l'article 8 de la Charte des droits et libertes nous permettait de croire a une protection raisonnable de la vie privee. (Chapitre 45.4(b) >From Property to Privacy, Constitutional Law of Canada, Third Edition, par le professeur Peter W. Hogg). < Le fait est que la vie privee et la securite de millions de personnes qui possedent des armes a feu n'etait aucunement menacee jusqu'a l'adoption du projet de loi C-68. Est-ce que l'un ou l'autre des points sur la protection de la vie privee que j'ai abordes dans mes quatre lettres empiete sur le droit d'une personne a des attentes raisonnables en matiere de respect de la vie privee? > a demande Breitkreuz. Dans le rapport annuel de 1996-1997 qu'il a depose au Parlement, le Commissaire a la protection de la vie privee a declare que puisque les reglements sur les armes a feu donnent peu de details, il semble maintenant que seules la forme et la schematique du processus fourniront les reponses, mais il sera beaucoup trop tard pour assurer une protection juridique. Breitkreuz a conclu sur ces mots : < En plus d'exprimer des preoccupations dans mes lettres, j'ai demande au Commissaire a la protection de la vie privee si les preoccupations qu'il avait lui-meme exprimees en 1997 avaient ete reglees de facon satisfaisante par le gouvernement. Bon nombre d'honnetes citoyens craignent beaucoup pour leur securite. Des millions d'autres sont en danger sans meme le savoir. Il est temps que des reponses soient donnees. > - - 30 - Pour obtenir des copies des lettres, s'adresser a : Yorkton : (306) 782-3309 Ottawa : (613) 992-4394 courriel : breitg@parl.gc.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 16:37:17 -0600 From: BChow2or81@aol.com Subject: Alienating vs. Recruiting In CFDv2-682, D.McI. wrote: > alienating people while doing it won't win any converts to our cause. ............... will it change C68? >Lets focus on the real problem, the politicians, and let the working people do what they have to do; >they are neither part of the problem nor part of the solution. Hear, Hear! The need is urgent - I feel it more and more keenly every day when I realize the deadline is fast approaching. Let's unite the forces who should be fighting C-68 and keep our noses (of every shape and size) to the grindstone. If we don't, the CLOG will do it for us. We must vote 'em out before they have that chance! Bud. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 16:37:30 -0600 From: "Jean-Francois Avon" Subject: STOPPING THE TRAFFIC, This text was scanned, OCRed, re-formated from narrow columns to regular width text and spell checked. Errors might have happened during this process long process. For exact content, please refer to the original version published by the CFC. Ciao JFA ================ Begin article =============== INSIGHT, the Newsletter of the Canadian Firearms Center, Issue 4-fall 1998. Page one article: STOPPING THE TRAFFIC The illegal trafficking of firearms has become a major concern in Countries around the world. In Canada, the problem is particularly Serious in large urban centres such as Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver. As a key source of firearms used in organized crime, underground trafficking networks give drug dealers, bikers, street gangs and the Mob an advantage over both citizens and police. In 1994, a special firearms smuggling work group was set up to examine the problem and suggest ways of dealing with it. The group's recommendations led to greater controls over importing and exporting in the Firearms Act, and to new and separate pen~alties for smuggling and trafficking in the Criminal Code. To Support these legislative initiatives, a core group consisting of representatives from the Department of Justice, Revenue Canada Customs, the RCMP and the provinces, was set-up in 1997. A major goal of this group has been to develop the strategy to target criminals by exchanging information and co-operating with enforcement agencies in Canada and the United States. "The make, model, serial number and other information on a gun found at a crime scene can help catch the criminal who used it" Says Bob Holmes, the manager of the core group. "If Police officers want to make the most of this information, they have to be able to share it across national and provincial borders." In Holmes' view, the new requirement for the registration of common rifles and shotguns, combined with a new, fully automated registration system, can't help but be a valuable tool for helping police track the illegal movement of firearms. "Studies show that half of all the handguns and other restricted firearms recovered at crime scenes are registered and can be traced back to their original owner. Now it will be much easier to trace the source of non-restricted rifles and shotguns as well," says Holmes, noting that these make up the majority of firearms used in crime. Moreover, under the new law, criminals who use firearms to commit I of 10 of the most serious crimes now get heavier sentences. "Heavier sentences with clearly defined prohibitions give of the core group. police the tools and incentives to interrupt the flow of guns to the underworld," says Holmes. "This balance of enforcement action with legitimate controls is paramount for public safety." This is especially important now that illegally acquired firearms are being used more quickly for crimes. Whereas it used to take about five years for such a weapon to be used in a crime, Holmes estimates that this time has fallen to just a few months. Worse still, many of these weapons are either inexpensive STOPPING continued on page 2 STOPPING continued from page 1 "throwaways" or very sophisticated, even military, firearms. The initiative is already showing results in British Columbia, says Staff Sergeant Bill Carver, who represents the B.C. Association of Chiefs of Police at the core group. He says that the new enforcement policies and strategies have led to a "significant increase" over the past year in the ability of B.C. police to trace crime guns back to their source, even when that source is out of the country. "Our focus is crime gun enforcement so this is clearly a valuable investigative tool for us," says Carver. "Anything that gets crime guns off the streets will win support from us." Inspector Bob Frolic represents Ontario at the core group. "The criminals who are trafficking in illegal firearms do not recognize borders," says Frolic. "As such, the sharing of information is of the utmost importance in the enforcement of our firearms legislation. We cannot operate in a vacuum." In Ontario, the police must report all firearms that come into their possession. As a result, the Ontario Provincial Weapons Enforcement Unit now has more than 83,000 handguns, rifles and shotguns in its firearms database, which it can use for analysis. For Holmes, knowledge is power, and sharing information keeps another kind of power out of the hands of criminals. "Mao used to say that power comes from the barrel of a gun. Criminals shouldn't have that power over the rest of us." Recognizing the significance of illicit trafficking and its connections to increased levels of violent crime, other countries are beginning to follow Canada's example. They agree that the key to combating the problem is more co-operation among the various government agencies to support law enforcement. Through several different international fora, such as the Organization of American States (OAS), the G8 Economic Summit and the United Nations, initiatives are being developed to foster high levels of co-operation to successfully investigate, detain and prosecute criminal traffickers. Canada's experience has enabled us to play a strong role in the development of these initiatives. =================== end of article ==================== Jean-Francois Avon, B.Sc. Physics, Montreal, Canada DePompadour, Societe d'Importation Ltee Limoges fine porcelain and french crystal JFA Technologies, R&D physicists & engineers Instrumentation & control, LabView programming PGP keys: http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html PGP ID:C58ADD0D:529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891 PGP ID:5B51964D:152ACCBCD4A481B0 254011193237822C ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 16:37:36 -0600 From: "Jean-Francois Avon" Subject: FAC approval suspension until Jan '99 Hi! Tell me I'm a twit and I won't argue... :-) Anyhow, I did not renew my FAC when I should have. My FAC expired more than five years ago. But I thought, in for a penny, in for a buck, so yesterday, I went to an SQ office to get the forms. I was told by the SQ officer that 'they' had phoned the 'the peoples in charge', and they said yes when I asked them 'In Ottawa?' that Ottawa decreed that they would not proceed/study FAC demands until at least next January. Is that legal? Please answer promptly for I'd like to give the paperwork a good shove... Ciao jfa Jean-Francois Avon, Pierrefonds (Montreal), Canada > One of the biggest crime against humanity: to propagate the mind-virus concept named _The_Original_Sin_. > Reality Is, it is NOT optional. PGP keys: http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html PGP ID:C58ADD0D:529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891 PGP ID:5B51964D:152ACCBCD4A481B0 254011193237822C ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 16:37:43 -0600 From: "Jean-Francois Avon" Subject: Y2K, social unrest and guns On Tue, 10 Nov 1998 06:44:57 -0600, Cdn-Firearms Digest wrote: >Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 19:27:35 -0600 >From: mtoma >Subject: registry computers > >A new report suggests that the gov't has not done nearly enough to fix >the y2k problems in the computers it uses to track information on such >things as welfare payments, tax returns, etc. Is it too wishful to hope >that the firearms registry will also fall victim to the y2k bug? My clueless 2 cents... If a new application is developped, it is most likely to be Y2K-proof because it is developped with modern tools. OTOH, the data from the old database has to be transferred before 31 dec 1999 (or even before 9/9/99 since this date was historically often used as a code for data purge or archiving) since it is likely that the old system was not Y2K-proofed. Now, you have to realize that the Y2K bug *will* bring social unrest. Some peoples with some banks or financial institutions *will* loose a lot of money. There *will* be problems with suppliers or clients. And some of theses *will* disrupt business-as-usual in a *big* way. Many businesses will be forced to go back to paper-type administration techniques like in the pre- computer era. The worst part of the problem will come from imbedded microcontrollers that control production equipment. Theses devices, if having imbedded within their chips, date information that is not Y2K-proof will stop entire production lines. Theses Y2K problems are very difficult to spot and not easy to fix. Delivery delays will rip apart the whole flow of goods and money, causing major social unrest. Many peoples truly fear a complete halt of the social fabric and an ensuing total mayhem. Some others, with more confidence in human nature think that there *will* be problems but that peoples will stick together, that notwithstanding isolated instances of media-bred panic, Reason will prevail. I tend to agree with them. This is, IMO, the best hope for C68. History has shown that when there is nothing to wake up peoples, they don't; and that when the alarm goes off, the natural tendency is to hit the snooze button... There will be *so much* troubles following the Y2K crash that the govt will have better things to do. They will scramble to seize firearms but the honest citizen will not let it's means of protection go away and will become highly suspicious of anybody asking for it's surrendering. >From something that I read last year, which is thus quite obsolete, at the time, only 3 millions lines of the 17(?) millions lines of computer code of the tax code has been reviewed, and it took seven years to do so. The US govt planned to hire massively to fix the tax code, but many peoples said that it was not possible to do so since you just cannot hire more peoples, they have to be co-ordinated and integrated and that the nature of the project was far more complex than that. In essence, they proposed to throw money and mental arms at the problem but apparently, they could not find enough brains to fix the problem in time. Don't be surprized if you see a flat tax being decreted by surprize. It's their only true way out IM-clueless-O. Don't be surprized that peoples on the net go crazy about Y2K while the population is kept totally ignorant of the situation. Nobody want to admit they have no ideas of what will happen. As far as I know, a 'popular' bank here is likely to _not_ be ready (actually, it might be ready itself but since bank data is not a static entity, since it is living and breathing entity, it always depends on about fifteen other data feeds constantly interacting with it. A single bug in a single data feed could mess up _everything_ *big time* ! ). Also, as far as I checked, Hydro-Quebec is taking the problem *very seriously* since 1996, so I don't think we'll run out of power. As for your guns, you might unfortunately come to the terrible point where you will have to use it in self-defence. The likeliness of this is small, fortunately, but still possible and much more possible than in 'ordinary life'. Ciao jfa Jean-Francois Avon, Pierrefonds (Montreal), Canada Unregistered Firearms in the hands of honest citizens: Liberty's Teeth Strong Cryptographic tools in the hands of honest citizens: Liberty's Voice He who beats his sword into a ploughshare will get coerced to plow for those who don't... PGP keys: http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html PGP ID:C58ADD0D:529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891 PGP ID:5B51964D:152ACCBCD4A481B0 254011193237822C ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V2 #692 **********************************