From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Cdn-Firearms Digest Saturday, February 27 1999 Volume 02 : Number 906 In this issue: New Government Policy Sarah Brady Interview on ABC News online ANNOUNCEMNET Several things RE: PAL and FAC Re: Registrar records Nouveau site/New technical HYPOCRETiens, convicts and rifles Re: Two Deactivated and Deregistered Firearms Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V2 #902 Timor is a poor example Y2K and Self Defence Re: Global TV News Broadcast, February 18,1999 Specific Postings by DAT The Facade of Global Gun Control Re: Self Defence ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 07:23:35 -0600 From: "James Bachynsky" Subject: New Government Policy "We can have a political debate, one should at least accept the truth of the figures that are given. One should not try to falsify the debate by creating figures that are not truthful, not valid." Paul Martin quoted in the 26 Feb 99 National Post, as he discusses critisism of his budget. Are the Liberals turning over a new leaf, or does this advice only apply to opponents? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 07:23:10 -0600 From: "Tom Zinck" Subject: Sarah Brady Interview on ABC News online Hello. check this out : http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/chat_990226brady.html Tom Zinck : NFA, OHA, ARRA, Reform, JPFO http://www.comnet.ca/~tzinck " I came to Ottawa in November with the firm belief that the only people in this country who should have guns are police officers and soldiers" - -Alan Rock, "Taking Aim on Guns" Maclean's, April 25, 1994, pg.12 "Non-cooperation with injustice is a sacred duty." - Mahatma Gandhi - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 07:23:15 -0600 From: rmcreat@istar.ca (Michelle Traver) Subject: ANNOUNCEMNET The BC Wildlife Federation & Lower Mainland Region BCWF host their 2nd Annual FUNdraiser! Saturday, March 13, 1999 Doors open at 6:00 pm Tickets are $35.00 individual, $65.00 for two, $260.00 for a table of 8 6:30 pm ... Reception ... Dinner ... Auction ... Prizes The Sheraton Guildford Hotel 15296 - 104th Ave. Surrey, BC Contact Albert Wood at 604-940-0042 or at 604-533-2293 Michelle Traver SSAC, HACS, NFA NCBCS Spokesman http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/9460/index.html 604-253-3311 fax 604-255-2202 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 07:24:41 -0600 From: "ross" Subject: Several things 1) Any opinion emanating from the politcial lawyers of the CFC are just that opinions they cannot interpret the laws only judges can (ask DAT on this) so Rousells opionions mean zilch 2) As for the womens shelters... now the will reap what they have sown... perhaps feeling even more vulnerable during Y2K will smarten them up... we as firearms owners are not their enemy 3)My level of open contempt for things liberal rises each day 4) My contempt for Joe Clark and his arrogance about the united right will insure I never vote for him 5)Valin is still an idiot 6 i predict big trouble ahead come Sept 9/99 and the imposition of sopme sort of emergency powers the Chretch is itching to use it and we gun opwners will be the target. wait and see 7Thinking about sending Annie a larger bowl for her haircuts... the one she uses now is too tight and affects her judgment. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 07:24:32 -0600 From: "Ted Carron" Subject: RE: PAL and FAC Mr Nachaj wrote ...... ....snip ... > ........ I spoke to Kathleen Roussel this past saturday in Hull. It is > of her > opinion that the CFC can issue PAl instead of FAC for those that > requested a FAC before Dec.1st. ...... > ....snip ... There are some points that I believe have been raised before; 1 - the fee for the FAC was lower than the PAL, and the law states that the fee must be paid. 2 - the PAL cancels your present FAC, which is a contract, you did not ask for this, so are they going to refund your money for your unused FAC time ?Of more immediate concern is what happens to all your ATT permits being processed with your FAC number, when the CFC cancels your FAC, does it screw you up there ? 3 - without the proper grandfathered PAL, you are a criminal according to the law, they cannot make law. Wonder what would happen if people started turning themselves in to thier local police station and asked to be locked up ? If carefully prepared, might make a great precident of a court case. Regards T Carron ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 07:23:55 -0600 From: rmcreat@istar.ca (Michelle Traver) Subject: Re: Registrar records >It has been interesting to read about the handling of the records kept by >gun shops after they go out of business. Nice to hear that in some cases, >some police force actually looked at them..., I might add here (unless the time frame has been changed) the fact that government considers any information older than 5 years to be obsolete. Therefor, in addition to these questions, what happens to the 'obsolete information'? Is this another reason why the government needs firearms owners to "re-register" the restricted firearms they own? Michelle Traver SSAC, HACS, NFA NCBCS Spokesman http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/9460/index.html 604-253-3311 fax 604-255-2202 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 07:25:26 -0600 From: "Editions H&L" Subject: Nouveau site/New technical Monsieur, Nous vous faisons parvenir ce petit message pour vous annoncer la = parution de notre recent site. voici son url : www.users.skynet.be/HL-Editions/index.html Nous vous en souhaitons bonne visite. Sir, We forward you this message to make you aware of our new site relating to firearms. Its url : www.users.skynet.be/HL-Editions/index.html We wish you a good visit ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 07:25:26 -0600 From: "Hans Gruber" Subject: HYPOCRETiens, convicts and rifles What hypocrites! I watched on CBC this morning how the Baffin Correctional Centre is arming convicts with high-powered rifles so that they can go out for "traditional" hunting. For the rest of us, don't forget to dot the i's and cross the t's on PAPER or we will be subject to prohibition orders and confiscation. Yet you can do a violent crime (one example cited in the report) and you get free ammo and leave out of the "joint." Hello, Annie! Shake your head! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 07:24:10 -0600 From: Peter Kearns Subject: Re: Two Deactivated and Deregistered Firearms Pter Kearns wrote: I personally inspected and approved the two firearms referred to by Robin, and can confirm they met ALL the provisions of National Firearms Manual Memorandum D-19-13-2 appendix "D" (Recently promoted to corporal) Cyr is clearly demonstrating that some federal bureaucrats are in fact arrogant, incompetent, (and in this case) incredibly stupid. He signed the original letter stating the deactivated arms were deregistered, and now almost a year later he is inventing his very own laws. I wrote in a previous letter to the CFR relating to another deactivated arm, "if you choose to enter a "ghost gun" into your already screwed up registry, I don't care. You may have any opinion you wish, but the law is that when a firearm is deactivated it no longer falls under firearms regulations, as it is no longer a firearm by legal definition. I have no intention of retrieving the arm mentioned from my customer, and no intention of furnishing you with my customer's address." I personally commend Robin for expressing his views to Cyr, and both DAT and myself would thoroughly enjoy popping the corporal's bubble in court, (if he is stupid enough to pursue this matter.) regards, Peter Kearns > Simon says: Give them some rope, and they will cheerfully hang themselves without help from us! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 07:23:39 -0600 From: MEHLaw@aol.com Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V2 #902 In a message dated 2/26/99 7:52:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, owner-cdn- firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca writes: << No finer lawyer weasel words (apologies to C.M. - Q.C.) were ever spoken, not even by Bill Clinton. Ahem! In Maine, at any rate, we hold that our President is unequaled in lying, subterfuge and weasel-wording, to say nothing of his compulsion to be dishonest Best regards to you, Maurice E. Hebert >> ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 07:25:53 -0600 From: "Rick Lowe" Subject: Timor is a poor example The Gaynors said: >I don't know if this was posted already, but it bears repeating... > >>From The Toronto Sun, Feb 8, 1999 >- ---BEGIN--- >Timor Civilians Get Arms > >JAKARTA, Indonesia (AP) - Indonesia's armed forces have begun handing out >weapons to some civilian recruits in the disputed territory of East Timor >to counter secession-minded rebels. >- ---END-- > >Makes me wonder what makes the citizens of Timor more better or more >trustworthy than Canadians... I don't think is the kind of example you had in mind... Timor was invaded and occupied by Indonesia immediately after they were given their independance, back in about 1974, I believe. The Indonesian military has suppressed and oppressed the Timorese and any ability they hope to have for self determination. Their record here is no better than that of the Chinese. Presumably, they intend to stay there as long as occupation means control of Timor's petroleum resources. The "citizens of Timor" who were armed by Indonesian authority were almost certainly not Timorese - they were probably the Indonesians the government has been settling in those areas to control Timor and the Timorese. Any "trustworthy" Timorese is probably an opportunist working hand in glove with an occupying enemy and probably does need firearms and bodyguards to keep himself alive. This is what APEC is all about, although we in Canada don't like to talk about this much as we're making lots of money partnering our petroleum industry and technical knowledge with Indonesia while they loot Timor's resources. At any rate, it's hardly an example of people being allowed to possess firearms to guarantee their safety and freedom. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 07:23:21 -0600 From: "The Gayders" Subject: Y2K and Self Defence I hate to harp, but here is more evidence indicating Y2K will have an impact on the Canadian gun control debate. This came from Canon Horold Percy's column "Sharing the Joy" in Vol. 125 (March) of the Anglican Journal (Canada). The political stance of this national newsletter is usually slightly to the Left of Mao Tsetung. I read it to see what our saintly socialists are up to. "It (Y2K) could be either a hiccup or a hurricane. Because of this uncertainty the Y2K issue is the subject of much everyday conversation, and many people are seriously thinking about what they should be doing to be properly prepared. Some are ignoring the issue, hoping it will go away. Others are talking about withdrawing their money from the bank, burying food supplies and buying rifles! With the popular imagination so focussed on the issue, I think there is a good opportunity here for practical ministry." Amen, Canon. Praise the Lord, and pass the ammunition. This is incredible! Note how he does not slam the idea of purchasing firearms! Also, in today's Y2KNewswire (USA) public e-mail alert there are the following stories: * Gun sales on the rise; police departments and civilians getting defensively armed for Y2K * Pepper spray selling by the case * Are these self-defense sales a good thing or a bad thing? * Mossberg is cranking up factories for anticipated Y2K home defense sales * How will more guns affect Y2K? * Could they both be right? Find it all at: http://www.y2knewswire.com/19990226.htm JAG ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 07:23:24 -0600 From: Ron Hofman Subject: Re: Global TV News Broadcast, February 18,1999 > TERRY ROBINSON: (Gun Retailer): These are histories of violence, break > and enter, theft, drug, convictions. Over time, we can demonstrate the > benefits of public safety, people might think twice about their objection > to the registration process. > Is this the same "Terry Robinson" of SIR fame in Winnipeg (the mail-order store)??? If so, NO, NO, a THOUSAND TIMES NO!!! I WILL NO LONGER SHOP IN HIS STORE!!!! I do NOT agree to SELL, BARTER, TRADE my *freedom* for some namby-pamby, pie-in-the-sky principle called PUBLIC SAFETY. The line "We'll make this country MORE SAFE, but we'll just take away just a little of your freedom in return!" is getting darn stale!!! Ron ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 07:24:52 -0600 From: dons@cadabratech.com (Don Shesnicky) Subject: Specific Postings by DAT I've added a fair number of listings to my page of "Specific Postings by DAT that may be of Interest", top page is at: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/dat/dat_top.html There's some pretty good reading in here on a number of topics. I've added some General Law, Customs, Ranges and a General Firearms section. I won't post these anymore as the list is getting quite long and I'll be adding some more this weekend but here is the list from that page: Of General Interest v02n267.txt Reform - NFA - Firearms Community History v01n761.txt "Gun-Free Zones" v02n049.txt Armed Rebellion -- In CANADA!??! [1/2] v02n049.txt Armed Rebellion -- In CANADA!??! [2/2] Firearms (Also See - The Mauser Series in this Page) v02n087.txt Ignition sources for firearms propellants (1 of 2) v02n087.txt Ignition sources for firearms propellants (2 of 2) v02n167.html Weapons through the ages I v02n167.html Weapons through the ages II v02n167.html Weapons through the ages III v02n168.html The firearm in society I v02n168.html The firearm in society II v02n181.html Full and Semi-automatic Firearms, Part I v02n181.html Full and Semi-automatic Firearms, Part II Ranges v02n172.html Report on Burnaby Ranges I v02n173.html Report on Burnaby Ranges II v02n173.html Report on Burnaby Ranges III General Law v01n939.txt Re: Basics in Canadian Law v01n940.txt Re: Basics in Canadian Law (Part 2 of 2) v01n941.txt Basics in Canadial Law II (Part 2 of 2) v01n941.txt Basics in Canadial Law II (Part 1 of 2) v01n943.txt Basics of Canadian Law III Part 1 of 2) v01n943.txt Basics of Canadian Law III Part 1 of 2) The Customs Series (What to Do If You Have Items Stuck in Customs) v02n250.txt Re: Customs v02n255.txt Re: Customs demand v01n810.txt Re: AR-15 and SKS parts detained by Customs v02n211.html Customs Crash in Montreal (1/3) v02n212.html Customs Crash in Montreal (2/3) v02n212.html Customs Crash in Montreal (3/3) v01n662 Customs/Surete Scandal The Mauser Series v01n884.txt Mauser Rifles v01n882.txt The Marvelous Mauser 98 v01n976.txt More on the Mauser K98k -- Problems! (1 of 2) v01n977.txt More on the Mauser K98k -- Problems! (2 of 2) .end. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 07:24:05 -0600 From: Mid North Publishing Subject: The Facade of Global Gun Control PRESS RELEASE from Midnorth Publishing (Feb.21,1999) THE FACADE OF GLOBAL GUN CONTROL Little known to Canadians is the fact that the Chretien liberals are working secretly via UN sponsored workshops to sell an unworkable global gun control proposal backed by the doomed Canadian Firearms Act model. Canada is attempting to take the lead for a group of 55 nations under the guise of targeting the illicit manufacturing and trafficking of firearms; but the real objective as pointed out in a report by a Canadian woman from St. Joseph's Island, Ontario is to create roadblocks for law-abiding sport shooters. Donna Ferolie who attended the recent workshop in Vienna reports that while the government of Canada claims to recognize the rights of the sport shooting community the position put forward at this UN workshop is shrouded in loose definitions that leave the door wide open to in fact erode the rights of law-abiding firearm owners. While some nations interpret the protocol of these discussions to be centred on trans-organized crime, others, including Canada, are bent on bringing the focus to the level of individuals. In addition, Canada does not propose to scrutinize state to state transfers of firearms despite the fact that such transfers are often responsible for military firearms finding there way into the hands of rebel groups that commit heinous crimes to humanity. Without regard for the cost implications Canada is pushing for global firearm tracking schemes that seem to assume that funding would be limitless; this despite the fact that at home, the unworkable Canada Firearms Act, barely into its first stage of implementation, has already cost Canadian taxpayers over $650million in direct government expenditures and countless millions in lost tourism and related business. In addition, Canada is advocating a system of import and export licencing, record keeping and data sharing that is not supported by feasibility studies. Again costs seem of no concern to this government and the risks associated with data security are not even on the table for discussion. Some of the countries party to the discussions have serious concerns with the affordability of proposals and with their right to self determination but Canada with the support of other nations such as Germany and Japan are pushing their agenda despite this. In concluding her report, Donna Ferolie states that Canadians deserve answers to the following questions: 1) In the Canadian paper submitted to the UN workshop in Buenos Aires, Argentina the recommendation was made to target firearms that are of "criminal interest". We need to know exactly what this means? 2) Also in the Buenos Aires submission by Canada it was pointed out that the information and statistics used in the paper came from "Canadian NGO's." We are entitled to know exactly which NGO's were consulted? 3) A fundamental tenet of the UN Firearms Workshop discussions is that "the illicit manufacture of firearms" is a serious problem. Apart from the issue of "illicit trafficking" of firearms we are entitled to know just what research and/or criminal convictions have revealed that "illicit manufacturing" is such a global problem? 4) If the Canadian government is truly concerned with the global problem of illicit trafficking in firearms then why, pray tell, doesn't the government of Canada crack down on a certain well know centre of smuggling on the Canadian border along the St. Lawrence River? Doesn't it make sense that Canada should choke its own snakes before going off and preaching to the world! 5) Has the government of Canada done any feasibility studies including cost estimates for the various global restrictions being advocated such as special marking to provide for tracking of firearms? 6) Why is the government of Canada recommending the exemption of country to country firearms transfers while it is a well know fact that such transfers are often at the root of the problem of the illegal distribution of military weapons? 7) It is confirmed from Canada Customs that merely four out of every one hundred containers are searched before entry into Canada. The question is, why has the government of Canada cut back and laid off 232 Customs investigators? Wouldn't it make sense for the government of Canada to provide additional resources for Customs at Canadian border points if it is truly serious about the illicit trafficking of firearms? 8) Given that the Foreign Affairs Dept. is so fervent in pushing its global firearms control agenda then why doesn't this effort get appropriate public exposure? Could it be that this Dept. revels in behind closed door negotiating manoeuvers and has as its hidden agenda the gradual erosion of the rights of the sport shooting community? END ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 07:23:50 -0600 From: dongres Subject: Re: Self Defence > Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 19:53:10 -0600 > From: "The Gayders" > Subject: Y2K and Self Defence > > Justified or not, people are starting to worry about the possibility of > disruptions in services caused by "Y2K", the "Milenium Bug"..., > > EXCELLENT point. But I have to say that it's not true that most people support "gun control". At least not on public forums where people have the time to think it over (unlike phone-in "polls") but also have more detailed information (no matter how incomplete) I raised the self-defence question couple of times in my Nine Myths of Gun Control and since March last year no one even tried to contest in any way in public forum. It appears some people are less inclined to object to selfdefence after few examples of real life situation are raised, like for instance the L.A. riot as well as individual home invasions. I raised the question of selfdefence on the international level as well. I asked if the person believes that Resistance of the partizans of the war past should have their firearms registered (threfore confiscated and possibly being executed), it made people think real hard. Perhaps less than one percent would say that such situation wouldn't happen again. Actually, I heard it only once from a 24 year old. But it's true that this is not "Canadian" thing to do. Not aloud & public anyway, but I can see it's very firmly on everyone's mind. Now, the estimate of 20 million firearms in Canada. It's MUCH underestimated. I know there are very many people who don't hunt, are not gun club members, and don't have F.A.C. (and don't want any) but they have guns who they swear they will never "pull out" till "they really need them" and I would guess there those who won't even say that, just keeping it to themself. One can only make a wild guess how many firearms are in Canada - and what the people, who don't want to go out on a branch, really think of self-defence. I know someone who's wife doesn't even know he has a firearm, because of her views formed by TV mostly. I would go as far as saying there are firearms in possibly all households, including that of gun control advocates', whether they admitt it or not. Number of firearms is larger than the total population and belief in self-defence is very much alive and well. Ed 'Saipan' D. /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V2 #906 **********************************