From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V2 #921 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Cdn-Firearms Digest Sunday, March 7 1999 Volume 02 : Number 921 In this issue: PAL/FAC re: self defense and CCW in Canada REC - Australia Field & Game Bulletin Board Re: In Defense of Hunting ( Mr. Sellout ) Re: Brinks / Canadian Carry Law re: Permits to Carry Re: Firearms Seizures Re: SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL GUN DEALER TODAY !!!!!!!! One last Try UPS Reloading Cheryl Crowe Re: Heidi Rathjen to speak in Eastern Townships of Quebec Wood Monitors Saskatchewan Wildlife Federation Resolution Re: LUFA MEETING IN FORT MACLEOD duplicate digest numbers (repeat and skipped numbers) Re: HAVE YOU HUGGED YOU DEALER TODAY ? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 08:16:12 -0600 From: "Rod McBeath" Subject: PAL/FAC As you and some others may recall, I've been going through this. The provincial firearms office in Edmonton is adamant your licence is indeed a PAL. The CFC is equally adamant your licence is an FAC. When the CFC does a search for your name in their system, using your number, they either have to go in through the FAC side, or the PAL side (went through this AGAIN yesterday). If they search for you in the PAL side (if you have letters starting your series of numbers), they will not find you. If they search on the FAC side, they will find you. The interesting part of this search yesterday came because I wanted to check where to return my card due to bleached photo and confirmation of FAC. CFC doesn't want me to return it to them. They feel it should go to the PFO. They transferred me to the PFO where I was on hold for 15 or 20 minutes, whereby the initials came to stand for something completely different in my mind... (Please F*** Off). I would say that without legal confirmation (ie- a letter from the legal department) we both have PAL's. I don't know what the NFA would have to say, even if we did get "legal" confirmation. By the way, there is some little snot monitoring us who likes to send out real nasty notes concerning this. Don't worry, little snot, I'm not giving up like you wanted... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 08:15:22 -0600 From: David A Tomlinson Subject: re: self defense and CCW in Canada >The current provisions of the Firearms Act /Criminal Code of Canada >have provision to issue a permit to an individual to carry a restricted >firearm for self defense. >If anyone has a lot of money to contribute to the program, >I'm sure you could talk the NFA into assisting with a >precedent-setting case on this topic using the SCC Morgenthaler >(spelling?) case law. In both cases, the challenge is/would be >about illusory/impossible to acquire permits. DAT has discussed >this before... That is in progress. We had to wait until C-68 became law, as a precedent under the previous Act would have quickly expired. David A Tomlinson National President, NFA ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 08:15:32 -0600 From: SSAA Subject: REC - Australia Field & Game Bulletin Board http://www.ozhunting.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi will take you to the Bulletin Board of Field and Game Australia. Why not visit and make your statement on the many issues listed?? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 08:15:16 -0600 From: Jim Powlesland Subject: Re: In Defense of Hunting ( Mr. Sellout ) On Fri, 5 Mar 1999, Mark Hughes wrote: > Well, I've had enough of Mr. Swan...with "Friends" like him.. > who needs any more enemies? Dr. Swan, a hunter and pyschologist, has written one of best defenses of hunting in decades and you regard him as an enemy. Sad. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 08:16:21 -0600 From: "The Ryans" Subject: Re: Brinks / Canadian Carry Law With regards the armored car guys and the armed guards. The guns are registered to the company in the same way that a Police Officer's firearms are the property of the Police Department. Note that the reason the companies still have the short barreled handguns is that they are grandfathered. Generally the -rent-a-cops (god I hate that term) who work as armored car guards and armed security officers do firearms training at least every six months, The frequency depends on the company. A lot of the guys who do the job are college grads from various law and security programs. With regards to the guy who made the newspapers a short time ago in Toronto for having a jacket with no insignia over his uniform shirt resulting in an armed takedown by the Toronto Police, I can say with certainty that he has been fired. The reason is that the Toronto Police would have reported the incident to the Ontario Provincial Police who administer all private security firms in Ontario under the Private Investigators and Security Guards Act. The O.P.P. registrar would then have talked with the company owner about the incident e.g. threatened the owner of the security company with the loss of his license under the Private Investigators and Security Guards Act of Ontario if the owner did not discipline the employee. The reason why there are very little problems with the armored car guys and the armed guards, if they screw up then they are looking at collecting EI with no second chances. - ---------- One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be endangered in a hundred engagements. One who knows not the enemy but knows himself will sometimes be victorious sometimes meet defeat. One who knows neither the enemy nor himself will invariably be defeated in every engagement. SUN-TZU 512 BC ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 08:16:02 -0600 From: "ross" Subject: re: Permits to Carry about 6 months ago while I worked in a Police Cellblock as a Guard, several of the inmates threatened to kill myself, and one in particular threatened to go after my family and daughter. In spite of a Detective being present when these threats were made, he developed a case of amnesia once he found out I made a formal request for a permit to carry. Of course his amnesia did not prevent him from laying uttering death threat charges against the puke, and using my statement of the incident which he asked that I write out. Of course he got the perp a few more weeks at the penal colony. Guess what folks some of them are out. People I have guraded are walking around free. It appears we do not have the right to self defense, the RCMP a SGT Foran sent a nice letter saying NYET... no permit... no need yadayyada yada. Of course when asked if they will be there when the bad boys go on a rampage, i got some non sensical answer. Its okay to protect insured cash, but not okay to protect your life or that of your family. Must be Liberal policy, cause it sure dont make any sense. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 08:15:02 -0600 From: dongres Subject: Re: Firearms Seizures > > > Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 07:37:52 -0600 > From: "R. Boswell" > Subject: Firearm Siezures > > Hi to all: I have an acquaintance who has recently had all his > firearms seized. The circumstance surrounding the seizure are > questionable at best. They were in a locked room in his house. > However the local RCMP kicked the door in during a search and seized > all his firearms. He was charged with some storage violations. > However he retained a lawyer and his lawyer has presented enough > resistance that after some couple of months the crown prosecutor has > stayed proceeding. This may appear as though he won however he is out > $1800.00 in legal fees. Does anyone know if he can recover those > legal fees bases on fact that his property was wrongfully seized. > Incidentally his guns will be delivered to his house next week by the > RCMP. > Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca He has $6,000 limit in Small Claims Court. That should cover the $1,800 and other expenses and damages he occured. He has to make a detailed list of damages and loses, material and time. In Small Claims the filing fee is only $50 or $60 which he gets back (if he wins) and you don't need a lawyer of course. I believe he would be paid out of court. The government won't go to court for $3,000. But then again this is Liberal Government. ;-} I had no problem to get cheques from major telephone company and also Toronto computer reseller. Didn't sue government yet, but I'm getting ready unless I get my F.A.C. soon. I hate trivial suit but this is nothing trivial. The PROBLEM is, if not challeneged, it'll be repeated. The best defence is offence. Ed "Saipan" D. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 08:17:07 -0600 From: Marstar Canada Subject: Re: SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL GUN DEALER TODAY !!!!!!!! Good morning Donna; I find your statement very interesting, not too long ago you advocated boycotting certain firms, ours among them, now you say support them.... Are we now forgiven for our great sin of verifying our own inventories and can, once again, sell to "local dealers" so they in turn can continue to earn a living ?? Your boycott has been quite effective when it comes to our Canadian trade, many dealers and individuals have followed your suggestions and not purchased from us. How does that help these smaller dealer stay in bussiness ?? Sincerely John John St. Amour Marstar Canada Fax: (613) 678-2359 marstar@hawk.igs.net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 08:16:55 -0600 From: "Young, Rick" Subject: One last Try Despite not being able to get a posting through to the digest since last summer, I'll make one last college try. 1) A 91 year old man and his 78 year old wife were beaten senseless here in Halifax last week...I believe the man is still in hospital with his injuries...after a home invasion. Rather than continually saying "let us protect you", isn't it about bloody time our supposed servants fessed up to the politically-incorrect fact that they can do SFA to protect us, and that their job is really to pick up the pieces after the fact??? Seems to me that providing the elderly or infirmed with confiscated (preferably from REAL versus paper criminals) or surplus police firearms and some training would be much more beneficial to society than a several hundred million dollar pharse! 2) Concerning the long periods between billing your credit card and providing the service (i.e. a registration certificate), are there not some regulations in place about the maximum accepatble time between the two events taking place? Might be worth checking into as another loose rivet in the Titanic. 3) The "give up your short barreled" letters are flying fast and furious...we received one for one of our club guns recently. A HK P9S...now there's a slipshod piece of criminal junk if there ever was one. And in use at a gun club yet....well, that just has to be up to some deviant purpose! There are times I wish I was 100 years old, so my period of having to put up with this crap would be drawing to a close and I would have been around to enjoy my freedom while such a thing still existed! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 08:15:12 -0600 From: Gordon Hitchen Subject: UPS Been checking around into the possibility of a new computer or Upgrade this spring! When cretien gives me back some of my money! One question I ask is how are they shipped. Inevitably this is countered by why do you want to know ! Gives me a chance to explain. Sor far IBM has assured me they can and will ship by Puralator. I was pleasantly surprised that the Sales person already knew why I asked! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 08:17:04 -0600 From: Jim Szpajcher Subject: Reloading Cheryl Crowe Here is a note I sent to the Lethbridge Herald regarding Cheryl Crowe's February 27, 1999 column. From: Jim Szpajcher Subject: Re: Reloading Cheryl Crowe - February 27, 1999 Sirs: I read with interest Cheryl Crowe's column of February 27, 1999. It is a shame that someone with so little grasp of history is allowed to show it so blatantly. She says that Canada does not have a tradition of gun ownership. I beg to differ. This great country, including our province was settled by people who saw firearms ownership as something no different from any other tool. I challenge Ms. Crowe to find any mixed farmer today without a firearm on the place. Her derogatory comment about "glorification of little dime-novel sociopaths with big guns " does great injustice to Susan Nattrass and all of our other great target and sport shooters. As to "not really enough to justify burying shotguns in the backyard now", can she explain why I would register my Rifles and Shotguns when my wife and I, as well as several other shooters that I am aware of, have received letters from the R.C.M.P. that guns we legally acquired and registered have to be surrendered by November 30th, 1999 with no compensation? Jim Szpajcher ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 08:15:36 -0600 From: David A Tomlinson Subject: Re: Heidi Rathjen to speak in Eastern Townships of Quebec OPPORTUNITY... >Anti-gun Lobbyist speaks at Bishop's > Lennoxville (AD) > To mark of > International Women's > Day, the Status of > Women Committee of > Bishop's University is > hosting guest speaker > Heidi Rathjen, Co- > founder of the Coalition > for Gun Control and the > Quebec Coalition for > Tobacco Control. > After organizing a > mass memorial service, > she set to work on a peti- > tion calling for stricter > gun laws. Co-founding > the Coalition for Gun > Control with Wendy > Cukier in 1990, the two > were instrumental in se- > curing new tough federal > gun control legislation > known as Bill C-68. > In 1996, Rathjen was > recruited by the Quebec > health care network to > co-found and direct the > campaigns of the Quebec > Coalition for Tobacco > Control with Louis > Gauvin. In June of 1998, > Quebec's National > Assembly unanimously > passed the Tobacco Act, > legislation which con- > tains every measure ad- > vocated by the coalition. > "We don't want to ban > tobacco," said Rathjen in > an interview with the > Gazette in June of 1998. > "We just want to put it on > a level consistent with its > dangers. It represents a > risk to public health. > Rathjen received an > honorary doctorate from > Concordia University in > 1997 and from Laval > University in 1996. She > received the Prix de Ia > Justice from the > Government of Quebec in > 1996 and was named one > of l00 Canadians to Watch > by Maclean's magazine in > 1997. She was also named, > along with Wendy Cukier, > Women of the Year in > 1992 by Chatelaine. > Rathjen will be speaking > in Bishop Williams Hall, > located on the second floor > of the Johnson Building, > on March 11 at 7:30 p.m. > Her talk will focus on > being a young woman in > the political environment. > Refreshments will be > served following the > speech. David A Tomlinson National President, NFA ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 08:16:27 -0600 From: "R. Boswell" Subject: Wood Monitors Ross: You suggest that this proposed program is stupid. I can tell you we here in British Columbia have a program called wilderness watch. It is a program that is operated by the British Columbia Wildlife Federation. Clubs who belong to this organization use volunteer club members to patrol the bush in their local areas. There are rigid guidelines that have to be followed. In areas where this program is in use it has had an impact on poaching and vandalism to logging company equipment. Most logging companies are supportive of this program by providing donated funding and in some cases have donated 4x4 trucks to clubs who participate. The patrol members have no power of arrest, and are there only to record and report. Before you condemn this program do some research. The people who take part in this program could be compared to the block watch program. Poachers are thieves.The are illegally stealing your game and they do not do anything to enhance the image the public has of hunters, We have a bumper sticker that says Poachers are not Hunters - They're Thieves. If you are interested I can provide you with the details of how this program works in BC. Cheers Bob Boswell Duncan BC ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 08:16:07 -0600 From: Murray Grismer Subject: Saskatchewan Wildlife Federation Resolution The following resolution was brought forward and carried at the recent Saskatchewan Wildlife Federation Convention held in Lloydminister Sk. on Feb. 20/'99. This resolution won the Andy Rankin Award as the best resolution at convention for that year. RCMP - Region 6 WHEREAS the opposition to Bill C-68 continues to grow, and WHEREAS several provinces, including Saskatchewan, have opted out of enforcement and administration of the bill, and WHEREAS the federal government intends to use the RCMP to enforce C-68 in spite of overwhelming opposition to this legislation in Saskatchewan, BE IT RESOLVED that the Saskatchewan Wildlife Federation recommend that the Government of Saskatchewan replace the RCMP with a provincial police force that is more accountable to the people of Saskatchewan. Note: Be it known that this resolution is not a criticism of the RCMP or the excellent services they provide. *** This resolution was sold to delegates on the issue of accountability. The SWF believes that the people of Saskatchewan would be better served by police who are directly accountable to the people of Saskatchewan, rather than the Solicitor General and PMO. The SWF fully support the Executive and membership of the Saskatchewan Federation of Police Officers. The resolution is believed to have been carried unanimous. *** ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 08:15:27 -0600 From: Gordon Subject: Re: LUFA MEETING IN FORT MACLEOD I hope someone anask them exactly what they have done so far in this regard! I have searched high and low but cannot find any evidence of attempts to educate the public in general or the Firearms Community in particular! Yet having over $80,000.00 in their fightig fund from memberships alone plus the income from what appears to be a highly successful retail business so there is probably in excess of $100,000.00 dollars of Firearms Community money sitting idle apparently. My interest should be apparent! Why is this moneynot being poured into the fight now! Accepting their apparent Policy to "Do Nothing" about registration other than ignore it and become criminalized on 1st Jan.2003, surely the money could at least be used in a campaign to educate the public at large of the dangers to everyone of the People Controlling Bill C68. The squirelling away of these money's from thier intended use could easily be misconstrued! Perhaps , when the NFA, CILA etc win this battle thei unused fund will simply vanish as administrative expenses? So Please anyone attending this meeting in Fort McLeod, TRY and find out some concrete facts about what this Organization is actually accomplishing! Meanwhile I will try and have one of my adult kids living in the area attend if they are not working! Gordon ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 20:50:35 -0600 (CST) From: "Skeeter Abell-Smith" Subject: duplicate digest numbers (repeat and skipped numbers) } I just noticed that I got 3 CFDs with the same issue number. I also } found out that the content of each was different. For the last while } I've been deleting CFDs with the same number, figuring that my ISP was } sending duplicates. } } Is it possible to give each CFD a different issue number? } } Thanks The duplicate numbering is caused by a bug in the majordomo software that assembles the digests and numbers them, automatically. We have tried to fix it, but it seems to have a lot to do with, among other things, how busy the free-net computer is. Even with a fast system and T1 internet access, there is a heavy load produced by issuing just one digest. (34,000 Bytes times 3,000 editions would be about 100 MegaBytes of data, and take about 7 minutes to push across a T1 line.) When I see two or more digests with the same issue number I have to manually adjust the value. I hope this explains the often bizarre numbering of the digests. (The numbers are always adjusted for the archives.) Skeeter Abell-Smith owner/moderator cdn-firearms ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 06:49:02 -0600 From: "PERRY'S GUNSHOP" Subject: Re: HAVE YOU HUGGED YOU DEALER TODAY ? Leave it to Donna to crusade for the dealers when I start bxxxxing to her about loss of income. Thanks to Donna from all dealers. I know you've been running around telling people to buy supplies whether they need them or not, because I've just had a surge of shooters buying shot and wads that I know they don't need for a couple of months. I hope shooters and hunters across the country are picking up a little something they may need down the road from their local dealers today. Bob Lickacz mentioned that his support is "limited to those shops who did not sleep with the Liberals by providing verifiers." Thanks to you too, Bob. I definitely would not sleep with a Liberal. In fact I find the thought revolting. But, dealers have had to choose the route that they thought was best for their businesses. Each and every one of them need support now. Thanks one and all. I am still pressing on to try and get the government to run the verificationprogram themselves as they promised. Their volunteer idea is not working for them or us. Maybe that is why they persist. Me, Jane ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V2 #921 **********************************