From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Cdn-Firearms Digest Wednesday, March 10 1999 Volume 02 : Number 925 In this issue: Re: "HUNTING IS NOT A SPORT" Informal Poll ONT BEAR ASSN. MEETING Why Boycott UPS? We Ship ! Gun controls make impact - Calgary Sun - March 8, 1999 Re: The federales are annoyed... Re: "HUNTING IS NOT A SPORT" BAN ON HUNTING YOA : Well Done ! Anti-hunting foolishness Response as requested ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:08:50 -0600 From: "Jean-Francois Avon" Subject: Re: "HUNTING IS NOT A SPORT" On Mon, 8 Mar 1999 18:04:00 -0500, Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1 wrote: >Windsor Star E-address of this idiotic editor... : letters@win.southam.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:08:50 -0600 From: "Larry Going" Subject: Informal Poll An informal poll asks the question: "Should Saskatchewan have it's own Police Force?" It is felt by many firearms owners in the province that a provincial police force would be more flexible in the administration of Bill C-68. Visit the RFC Sask. Web Page and give your opinion. http://www3.sk.sympatico.ca/going/rfc/ Larry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:08:27 -0600 From: Donna Ferolie Subject: ONT BEAR ASSN. MEETING MEETING WITH THE ONTARIO BEAR HUNTING ASSOCIATION The President of the Ontario Bear Hunting Association asked to meet with me today to discuss what has transpired in the last few days. As it now stands the OFAH ( Ontario Federation of Anglers and Hunters ) and NOTO ( Northern Ontario Tourist Outfitters ) will be taking the Ontario Provincial Government to court in retaliation of the cancellation of the Ontario spring bear hunt. The Ontario Black Bear Association are currently exploring their options to take the Animal Rights Alliance organization to court based on economic loss as well as bogus statistical information disclosed to the provincial government ( and media ). **** RETRACTION ************ Ted Nugent is " sticking to his guns " and maintaining his position to boycott Canada. Donna Ferolie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:05:29 -0600 From: pc Subject: Why Boycott UPS? We Ship ! Mr. King as you can see by the various messages below there is a question of " who is propagating misinformation." UPS has shipped Firearms in Canada and probably still does [its been a long time since I used your service]. BTW not because of your obvious bias towards the RFC but because of your under handed tactic of pulling out of BC. [Remember that ?] and dumping scores of decent hardworking people on the unemployment lines for the rest of us to take care of. Ya I know just good corporate bottom line thinking right ! However why would anyone in their right mind use a company to ship in country something that they refuse to ship across the border ? Would you answer that one for me ? Especially when the majority of items all have to be serviced in the US anyway. I can tell you that I agree with every word that is written herein and that most of the people who write you and point out your bias are correct in what they say. I can further tell you that I have made it my personal business to alert everyone of my contacts world wide about your bias and have sent them personally everyone of the messages that have been posted regarding this bias and the ramifications thereof. As for the notorious untruth of the Chats well may I remind you that most of the businesses use the chats and Webs to stay in business. Are you try to tell us that all of you honest Corporate types are full of doo doo now ? Interesting statement Sir we all await your answer, by "all" I mean < http://www.angelfire.com/mb/ca/ >. This message sent "Without Prejudice" . The Truth Is Out There ! Research, Expose & Take it to the "People". Rod, Bugaresti NCBCS Prov. Coordinator BCCPD Member/Activist Web site @ http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/9460/index.html - ----------------------------------------------------------- "Non-cooperation with injustice is a sacred duty." - Mahatma Gandhi - ----------------------------------------------------------- "Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas?" -- Joseph Stalin -- - ----------------------------------------------------------- " FREEDOM " For those who Fought, Bled and Died For It " FREEDOM " has a FLAVOR THE PROTECTED will Never Know or Savor. - Anonymous - (found on Hill 406, by Counteract Force after a massacre "Fire Fight" Vietnam 1971.) ********************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:08:50 -0600 From: Randy Coombes Subject: Gun controls make impact - Calgary Sun - March 8, 1999 Gun controls make impact - Calgary Sun - March 8, 1999 It's an indication legislation has had positive impact on misuse of firearms By BILL KAUFMANN Alberta has reached a macabre watershed that might have something to tell us about gun control. For the first time since statistics were kept, the number of suicides by hanging in Alberta has eclipsed those committed by firearms. In fact, self-lynching has become the method of choice among all the avenues of ending it all among Albertans. In 1996, firearms accounted for 27.5% of suicides in Alberta compared to 25.3% with the rope. In 1997, that figure had reversed itself dramatically, with hanging claiming 32.4% of suicides -- leaving in its wake firearms at 19.7%. For one veteran suicide watchdog, the flux in figures are a unmistakable reflection of firearms storage regulations that make it more difficult, particularly for youths in despair, to exit with a bullet. "What we're seeing is stricter enforcement of gun- control legislation," says Gerry Harrington of the Calgary Suicide Information and Education Centre. The tide from trigger to rope has been shifting since the early 1990s, when authorities began more frequently charging families with improper firearms storage, says Harrington. If true, it's an indication gun-control legislation has had a positive, quantifiable impact on the misuse of firearms. But as critics of Bill C-68 can point out, that gun storage legislation dates back to 1978 -- suggesting no stronger legislation is needed. And they can also emphasize, as Harrington does, the fact the suicidal are simply turning to other methods once our much-maligned muskets are muzzled. The number of suicides in Alberta remains at around 400 a year. There's no way you can ban anything to do with hanging. Kaufmann can be reached at 250-4128. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:08:55 -0600 From: Peter Kearns Subject: Re: The federales are annoyed... It appears that information and statements about Kustoms and other federal agencies published by myself and others on the internet are (apparently) really annoying and upsetting their management types. In fact they even called in their legal counsels to try and figure out how to muzzle me! You can't legally stop people telling the truth. The Digest is monitored and closely scrutinized by our civil servants, AND THEY ARE LEARNING TO FEAR THE INFORMATION AND ADVICE BEING DISSEMINATED. Some of you may have considered some of my statements outrageous or inflamatory in the past, but I can tell you now that most statements made were made as bait for Kustoms and (perhaps) the RCMP and other feds. They swallowed the bait, and now you all know why some of the incidents recounted here were written the way they were. (For the kustoms monitor who collects all my submissions, please make sure you don't lose any as you will be presenting them in court..... (We know you have them...) Any incident described on these pages is definitely investigated by whatever federal department is accused, and the feds then try to bury, or cover over any appearance of unethical or criminal acts by their employees. Of course we, (DAT and myself) feed them exactly what we wish them to know, (including some misinformation.) We have recently uncovered some very interesting legal grounds that we know cannot be defended by Kustoms, relating to the Montreal Seizures and a couple of more recent ones. We can prove that federal employees acted completely illegally and outside the protection of the Customs Act! For our federal monitors: WATCH THIS SPACE BOYS, AND YOU WILL LEARN WHICH OF YOUR PEOPLE DON'T OBEY THE LAWS LIKE THE REST OF US, AND GET TO PAY FOR THEIR ACTIONS! I am now under orders from DAT not to show ANY cards until the hand is played. So we will keep the various legal manoeuvers private until they are actually used. Remember listers, if you submit anything to the Digest your name will appear on a report somewhere, but who the hell cares anyway!! (As DAT says,) "It is better they fear and respect us than regard us with contempt." Remember feds, keep writing the memo's and please make sure you spell my name correctly, and see if you can improve your grammar. regards, Peter Kearns Simon says: I guess the above counts as a single digit salute to our masters in Ottawa. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:08:50 -0600 From: "Jean-Francois Avon" Subject: Re: "HUNTING IS NOT A SPORT" Regarding your article: HUNTING IS NOT A SPORT (quoted below) Your letter describes the archetypal idiotic hunter in his archetypal idiotic youth raised up by idiotic parents... First, which non-idiotic parents would let a fourteen years old child go unsupervised with a gun? I learned to shoot at age 6, but did not go hunting on my own before the legal age, e.g. 16. And before age 16, I had plenty of time to learn how not to waste game meat, how to gut game and prepare it, how to be safe with a gun, how to interpret Nature, how to respect Nature, etc. I followed my father in his hunts since age six. My mother, who taught my father to hunt, followed her own father in his hunts since age fourteen. My grand'pa was a farmer who hunted for supplementary food and income, as was all of his family, 13 members of them. Anybody in my family wasting killed game would get blamed for it. And by family, I mean over 100 hunters, men and women. Anybody killing an animal does so only if one can recover it (on big game hunts, most of us carry walkie talkie just in case some help is required to bring a catch out of the woods) Speaking of which, life on a farm means you get confronted with death on a regular basis. Looking at a dying deer would never occur to me. This is as idiotic as it is cruel. I would shoot it to death ASAP. One day, I saw a cat get very severely crushed by a car; I simply pulled out my pocketknife and finished it quickly. In my book, it was simple compassion. So, you could ask, where did I learned about compassion for animals? Have you ever witnessed the slaughtering of pigs? First time I did was at age five. It yells like nothing else. And nothing could make you forget the sound of that animal that knows it gonna die, nor the sound it makes while it is bleeding to death. Death is part of life but we, in our sanitized and shrinked-wrapped society love to think that the pork chop, the chicken breast of the beef T-bone in our plate never was a living being, never had to suffer death for us. Same applies to carrots. Speaking of which, one hindu master once said "with carrots, they don't yell as much..." which interestingly comes down to 'how much it bothers us' rather than to "thou shalt not kill"... As far as I know, nobody in our family has repudiated knives nor eating pork chops. I remember the first pig that I've seen slaughtered, and I sentimentally realize that today, a Laidlaw Supermarket warehouse is built over the site. It makes me shed a few tears... As for feeding bears with hunters, remember that they are already fed with a few hikers and campers each year... I would suggest that the first one to be sent as game for the bears are the ones who hunted and killed without using the meat. Maybe that would put the poor author out of his misery, his eternal guilt of having been an idiot for wasting Nature, and is past judgment errors about mixing up the cause and effect, i.e. guns and his own-volition driven idiotic trigger-pulling finger. Jean-Francois Avon, Pierrefonds, QC On Mon, 8 Mar 1999 18:04:00 -0500, Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1 wrote: > >PUBLICATION: Windsor Star >DATE: 99.03.08 >EDITION: FINAL >SECTION: EDITORIAL >PAGE: A6 >COLUMN: LLOYD BROWN-JOHN >BYLINE: Lloyd Brown-John >SOURCE: Windsor Star >ILLUSTRATION: LLOYD BROWN-JOHN political science professor. His column >appears every other Monday. > >Hunting is not a sport > >It was a classic shot. The deer was grazing the meadow. I knew the meadow >was there as I'd climbed that mountain many times in those wonderful, >joyous, years of youth. >A broad expanse of grassland where once large firs had grown, but now, after >logging and a couple of fires, it was an expanse of grass, firewood and >charred stumps. >I had fringed the meadow from the east side downwind. And there it was, >almost too close. Head down: munching away. >I backed into the deeper trees and skirted along the edge of the meadow >until I was lined up about 30 meters from the deer. It may have sensed my >presence as it lifted its head. >I waited -- hey, I was only 14 and had all the time in the world -- fondling >my old .303 rifle from the Second World War. >The deer returned to its munching and I eased between two trees and then lay >behind a rotten snag. I flipped up the sight and looked down the barrel. >I had three guns. The old .303 my uncle had given me. For me, the was >real manhood. After all, my other two guns were only .22s. One of the .22s, >a single shot, was sawed-off and could be hidden up the sleeve of a coat. My >other .22 was my pride and joy, a repeater with a scope. >They were all used for killing deadly squirrels, crows and marmots. But the >.303 was real power and when I packed it through the bush I knew I was >looking for big game or whatever else moved. >The deer's head remained down and I sighted my shot just back of the right >eye. Bwham! -- the recoil darn near tore my shoulder out as I'd forgotten >the thick jacket and hadn't pressed the fully to my shoulder. Hey, I >was just a kid! >I suppose the deer sensed the motion because its head came up and it took >about one pace when my bullet tore through its neck. It leapt, leapt again, >then staggered, its front legs collapsed as it buckled to the ground. >I yelled, "got you, you . . . " as I ran toward the struggling animal. I was >proud, I was 14 and a man! >querying eyes >The animal gasped and gasped some more as I approached it. The blood oozed >from the tear in its neck. Great shot -- right through the centre of the >neck that now lay with its attached head on the grass of the meadow. Its >hind legs collapsed and thrashed. The breathing continued and the big brown >eyes looked at me -- deeply, querying, penetrating. "Why did you do this to >me?" >The animal breathed again, its eyes still engaging my mind. "Why did you >shoot me, whatever have I done to you?" I turned. I couldn't face those eyes >and those imputed thoughts. I cradled my , turned and walked back into >the trees. >Years later, Simon Fraser University was built on the site of my first big >kill and I've often wondered if the ghost of that animal still haunts its >halls of academia. >I never, ever, shot any of my guns again. I told my dad about it and he >congratulated me but then asked the question, so where's the meat? >I hadn't killed for the meat, although we certainly could have used it. I >had killed for the sport. The thrill of the hunt. The victory over some >inoffensive, harmless probably dumb (although I wondered about myself at >that point) animal. >I detest guns. And I have very, very, little sympathy for those who claim >that a spring bear hunt is somehow essential. Essential to what? My uncle >killed a bear and the meat was coarse and greasy, albeit, that was an >autumn, pre-hibernation bear. >In Ontario, some of the those who call themselves "hunters" even use dogs to >pursue their poor quarry. Oh mighty beer-swillers of the wild, using dogs >sounds like a real man's sport! >I can see some value in hunting game for food. But to dignify hunting as a >"sport" is really beyond comprehension. >Guns don't kill animals. Often it's the dimwits behind the guns that do the >damage. Where's the sport in hunting if the hunted have no opportunity to >kill in return? >If we need a bear hunt, why not stake out a few "hunters" so the bears have >a chance to earn some trophies. > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:05:16 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: BAN ON HUNTING Ban on hunting could trigger more poaching -- [The Edmonton Journal - Tue 09 Mar 1999] PUBLICATION The Edmonton Journal DATE Tue 09 Mar 1999 SECTION/CATEGORY Letters PAGE NUMBER A13 BYLINE J.L. Feindel HEADLINE: Ban on hunting could trigger more poaching Would the government yield to public pressure to ban hunting ("Hunters becoming an endangered species," Journal, Feb. 28)? Although the number of hunters in Alberta has been decreasing, to ban hunting likely will not cause people to put away their guns and leave the deer alone. Not only will this cause an uproar among hunters, it may increase poaching. If this legislation should take effect, there will no longer be a maximum number of animals that a hunter can kill, and many will try to take advantage of this situation. The government will find itself with another problem in need of a solution. People will not stop hunting because the Alberta government has set legislation, just like some people do not let drinking stop them from driving. As for the new Bill C-68 on gun control, it may discourage new hunters, but this is not necessarily a bad thing. It also helps protect families from the anguish of the loss of a loved one to gun accidents. This, of course, is caused by gun owners failing to store their guns properly. Registering firearms should not be seen as a violation of rights, but as a precaution against accidents and improper use. Hunting is very much alive in Alberta and the rest of Canada, and although numbers may be decreasing, I do not think hunters should worry about a ban being implemented any time soon. J.L. Feindel Sherwood Park ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:05:19 -0600 From: "Tom Zinck" Subject: YOA : Well Done ! Letter to the Editor I would like to congradulate Minister McLellan for her replacement to the Young Offenders Act!! It is sorely needed. What I have not heard from her office, is how much money will be spent to implement the new Youth Criminal Justice Act ? If she is willing to spend $500 Million for the failing Firearms Act, I am sure that there will be lots of money for new social workers, police officers and the support personal needed for this new inititive. As they say in Hollywood : SHOW ME THE MONEY ! Tom Zinck Nepean (phone number for verification purposes only) 613-231-9011 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:05:06 -0600 From: "Barry Glasgow" Subject: Anti-hunting foolishness to: Windsor Star cc: Canadian Firearms Digest subject: Hunting is not a sport I read Lloyd Brown-John's uninformed article against hunting and guns and couldn't believe how ill-informed someone - especially a man with a hunting upbringing - could be. It appears that his father and uncle had failed him on several counts. We are taught early on never to shoot at a deer's head as it is an extremely small target and constantly moves. The heart and lung shot is a far safer bet and death is very quick. Mr. Brown-John excuses that missing the deer's head was caused by its seeing the recoil movement and subsequently dodging the bullet. This is, of course, pure and utter nonsense and speaks volumes about Mr. Brown-John's lack of knowledge on the subject of firearms. But most telling of all is the reason he gives for shooting the deer in the first place. He says he killed it for sport and this has been against the law since game laws came into being. Sure, there is thrill in the hunt but only sadistic people kill just for the sake of killing. Mr. Brown-John was apparently never taught this lesson (though decent folk usually come by this knowledge on their own) and has since held the firearms he formerly cherished to blame for his gross indiscretion. And now he's taking it a step farther by labelling hunters as beer-swilling dimwits who are not sporting because the animal has no chance of killing in return. I derive much excitement from the hunt and get many other things from it as well but I'll be damned if I'll feel obligated to explain them to the likes of Mr. Brown-John or put up with his condescending and bigotted slurs. He has his own demons to wrestle with. Barry Glasgow Woodlawn, Ontario 613-832-2449 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:05:10 -0600 From: "Rick King" Subject: Response as requested Mr. Bugaresti, Your comments and views are understood and I respect your opinions. Unfortunately, I do not have the time nor the inclination to engage in the style or substance of your rhetoric via email. Should you wish to discuss UPS policies as they pertain to your interests please feel free to call me directly at the number below. All the best in your future endeavours. Rick King. http://www.ups.com Legal and Public Affairs 400 - 6285 Northam Drive Mississauga, ON L4V 1X5 905.676.6913 tel 905.676.6035 fax ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V2 #925 **********************************