From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V2 #973 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Cdn-Firearms Digest Wednesday, April 21 1999 Volume 02 : Number 973 In this issue: forms availability Kathleen Roussel Contact re: CPIC Re: Import/Export Permits Errors on those rare little registration cards Conversion kits - Call to dealers Feb 14, '95 Shenanigans Re: Bazooka for sale [CFD V2 #971] regarding Paul Martin Re: FAC Colorado tragedy - CNN poll - who's responsible? BREITKREUZ NEWS RELEASE - APR 20/99 Contact number "GUN REGISTRY LOWEST PRIORITY" Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V2 #971 Re: Albert Frohike Incorrect Registration certificate Denver 25 Re: Registration - restricted ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 06:10:58 -0600 From: Wardrop Subject: forms availability I was in my local postal outlet looking for tax forms which I was told were not available as someone in the government was on strike and ... Anyway, as usual I was requesting various firearm registration and after getting somewhere over 2500 over the past couple of months to mail in, I was told today that I could only now get one form (the clerk at this postal outlet didn't know me from Adam). I tried all the usual ruses to no avail. He told me he had received a pretty clear directive from his masters to now limit forms to one and only one per customer. Even if I came back later he could not give me a second form of any kind. I asked him what I was to do once I submitted the Application to Acquire and Possess ... and then needed a form to register my first firearm. He then told me the directive told him to tell me to contact the CFC for all subsequent forms. Seems that they are being distracted from the pure and efficient registration of all firearms. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 06:11:33 -0600 From: Sheldon Clare Subject: Kathleen Roussel Contact Kathleen Roussel of the CFC can be reached at 1-800-731-4000, local 2002. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 06:12:30 -0600 From: "Barry Glasgow" Subject: re: CPIC Don Clarke was speculating if he might be paranoid in thinking that the cops can red-flag drivers because of known gun registrations - well, believe it. About a year ago, I was in registering a transaction with the Carp OPP (who, incidentally, are very courteous and professional) and the firearms officer mentioned that the system was already bringing up handgun registration info when officers ran plates. Of course, how individual officers treat and react to that sort of information is up to those individuals but it does make you wonder how it all plays out in those jurisdictions where it has been shown that police abuse their authority as it pertains to "gun control". Imagine though, for a minute, an ideal world where police computers popped up a warning that read (instead of "Registered gun owner") "Gun owning criminal"...... Barry Glasgow Woodlawn, Ont. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 06:12:24 -0600 From: Dave Tomlinson Subject: Re: Import/Export Permits >In conversation with my contacts at Brownells last week I found out the >following. As of last Monday (12th) all firearms, firearms parts, >ammunition and ammunition components, including dummy cartridges, >riflescopes, especially those built to mil-spec, WILL REQUIRE AN EXPORT >PERMIT FROM THE US STATE DEPT. In order to obtain this permit, an IMPORT >PERMIT from the country whence the order originated is REQUIRED. It is >anticipated that the export permit will take 2 1/2 weeks to process. >They are free but companies will be charging for the paperwork, >something like $5.00 per $100.00 value of order. I believe there will be >3 classes of import permits issued by Canada, one of which will be a >dealer permit of sorts, BUT I have not had this confirmed yet. I also do >not know how long they will take to process. >This is a result of ITAR and OAS agreements, Thank you Lord Axworthy and >Slick Willie. The NFA has been quietly working on this problem for several months. We hope to get an agreement that shipments to Canadian dealers do not require a US export permit. There are signs that this may actually come to pass, but it is still uncertain. David A Tomlinson National President, NFA ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 06:12:17 -0600 From: "Barry Glasgow" Subject: Errors on those rare little registration cards Peter Kearns related his breathless encounter with one of those mythical CFC registration cards - the giddiness of the experience marred by the fact that the registrars had sullied the rare document with information that they had fabricated. I was disheartened to learn that the good Mr. Kearns' innocent eyes had to endure the illegal desecration of such a sought- after and valuable "get out of jail" card - made all the more unbearable by the fact that it appears as though these disrespectful individuals have done this with other firearms that have passed through the hands of dear Mr. Kearns. I had the opportunity to register as "receiver-only" one of Mr. Kearns' receivers and the local registrar had indicated "N/A" in the boxes designated as TYPE and ACTION. But it appears as though the employees at the CFR are blessed with the ability to predict the future for they overruled the opinion of a police officer who had personally examined the receiver and replaced the "N/A"s with "RI" and "SA". Far be it from me to ever consider building a bolt-action handgun with this receiver, the CFR know better. Now if only they could only use these wonderful powers to predict the actions of the nation's criminals. Curiously enough, these powers fell short by failing to predict the number of shots I might take with my future firearm - so I suspect that they need a little fine tuning before criminals are subjected to them. Barry Glasgow Woodlawn, Ont. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 06:11:27 -0600 From: Jean Hogue Subject: Conversion kits - Call to dealers I agree a Ruger .22 LR handgun would likely be more accurate -- but the conversion kit for say a CZ-75 provides the fun of still shooting with the CZ and would not be subject to the CFC TAN and assorted shenanigans. One dealer I contacted told me that he cannot obtain the Kadet conversion kit for a 1983 CZ-75 (no firing pin safety). Can another dealer out there have better luck ? -- please respond privately. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 06:11:11 -0600 From: "The Gayders" Subject: Feb 14, '95 Shenanigans Just had a call from a good friend. Seems that way back in August of '94 he bought and applied to register a short barelled hangun. He later recieved and filed his registration certificate from the mounties. About two weeks ago he followed our group's suggestion to carefully check over all firearm related papers and certificates for errors. When my friend checked over his registration for the pistol, guess what date of registration they had put on it.... February 15, 1995 !!! They are attempting to screw him out of being grandfathered for SBHs by twenty-four hours!!!! He is trying to put this situation right. Luckily he still has his application to register dated Aug of '94. Check your paperwork! Encourage others to do the same! JAG ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 06:12:11 -0600 From: "Jean-Francois Avon" Subject: Re: Bazooka for sale [CFD V2 #971] On Tue, 20 Apr 1999 06:02:06 -0600, in CFD V2 #971 wrote: >Subject: Bazooka for sale > > I'm going to be selling a demilitarized M-20 Super Bazooka with >tripod and shield. It has a pin welded at both ends and a round hole >tastefully cut into the one side. [snip] Am I being clueless here or do I understand that a simple piece of metal tube has to be "de-activated" ? Since a bazooka tube is, AFAIK, only a launch tube with very little mechanism, since all the engineering-intensive lays in the munition itself, why bother to de-activate a simple thin metal tube? I would understand on, possibly, deactivating the ignition hardware and the aiming hardware, but the _tube_ ? I would appreciate if any of you made me less clueless... Ciao jfa Moderator's Note: It does not have to make sense, its government policy. DJP ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 06:11:05 -0600 From: Paul Chicoine <701506@ican.net> Subject: regarding Paul Martin Someone raised the issue of writing to Paul Martin, most likely the next leader of the Liberal Party. True email is easy to delete and a piece of paper letter hangs around a bit more. You can write if you like and you can fax. Convert your email to a paper fax by using the following url, its called Fax the Feds. http://www.net-efx.com/faxfeds/how.html Paul Chicoine ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 06:10:47 -0600 From: Bruce Mills Subject: Re: FAC Um. sorry, but if I remember correctly, you *can't* apply for a FAC anymore because the paperwork for it not longer exists. You would have to apply for a FP/AL. I would recommend that you hang onto your FAC until it expires, and even then your are "deemed" to have a FP/AL until 2003. With any luck, we'll have the rascals in Ottawa out long before then. Bruce Hamilton, Ont. > Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 06:01:53 -0600 > From: "Robin Leech" > Subject: Re: FAC > > Put in for a new one now. You will not receive it for at least 4-6 months, > and it will be good for 5 years from the date of issue. > > Robin Leech > > - -----Original Message----- > From: ROSEN > Date: Monday, April 19, 1999 5:26 AM > Subject: FAC > > >I HAVE A FAC THAT EXPIRES IN 2001. SHOULD I LEAVE WELL ENOUGH ALONE OR > >SHOULD I PUT A NEW APPLICATION IN? > >THANKS DANNY CMCDR@PATHCOM.COM ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 06:11:22 -0600 From: briandrader@canada.com Subject: Colorado tragedy - CNN poll - who's responsible? You've probably heard about the recent mass murder in a Colorado school. Apparently two or three former students ran amok with a variety of weapons, including firearms and improvised grenades. Approximately 25 people were killed. CNN appears to be using this as a reason to campaign for still more firearm laws in Colorado, despite the fact that mass murder and the construction of improvised grenades are illegal pretty much everywhere. They have begun a poll at http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/1998/schools/poll/ asking "Who or what is most responsible for school violence?". The answers do not include "deranged criminals who would perpetrate their crimes with or without firearms" but rather choose to blame kids, parents, schools, the media, access to guns, all of the above, or none of the above. In any event, you may wish to vote. CNN has also started a message board section pertaining to violence in schools. The story is at http://www.cnn.com It has been reported that an armed community policeman was in full time attendence at the school, but apparently there was no effective armed intervention to oppose this senseless rampage. A single armed teacher could have ended this tragedy, but a dozen new gun laws wouldn't have affected things one bit. Even in prison, criminals can find weapons. Police can't be everywhere, nor should they be. It's time for citizens to play a role in their own protection. Regards, Brian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 06:11:42 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: BREITKREUZ NEWS RELEASE - APR 20/99 http://www.reform.ca/breitkreuzgpress/fire38.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 06:11:37 -0600 From: Sheldon Clare Subject: Contact number The new contact number for Mr. Steve Hitchcock of the Attorney General of BC's Firearms Office is 250-356-6841. To save long distance charges, this number can be reached by dialing 1-800-387-6121 and asking for it. Steve is alway happy to answer question about the Firearms Safety Education Training Course. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 06:11:56 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: "GUN REGISTRY LOWEST PRIORITY" NEWS RELEASE April 20, 1999 For Immediate Release SURVEY SAYS, "GUN REGISTRY THE LOWEST JUSTICE PRIORITY FOR THE PEOPLE" "It's time tax dollars were spent on the people's priorities instead of pet, political projects." Paradise, Nova Scotia - This evening at a rally in this community, Garry Breitkreuz, MP for Yorkton-Melville, released results of a national poll conducted for him earlier this month. "This poll provided statistical confirmation of something people were telling me for a long time," said Breitkreuz. "I only wish the Liberals would listen to the people for a change. Then your hard-earned tax dollars would be going to the real criminal justice priorities instead of pet political projects." Between March 20 - April 3, 1999, Feedback Research Corporation asked 1,500 respondents the following questions in a national telephone poll. The survey results are accurate to within * 2.7%, 19 times out of 20. "As you may know, the federal government is planning to spend between $50 to $60 million a year to implement the new firearm registration system. Some people say that the implementation of the firearm registry system will improve public safety by reducing crime, while others say that this money would be better spent by fighting crime more directly. In your opinion, if the federal government were to spend between $50 and $60 million a year to fight crime, how much priority would you like to see put on each of the following areas: Please answer using a scale of 1 to 10 where 1 is 'very low priority' and 10 is 'very high priority'. How about .....(READ and ROTATE)." (1) 90% - Adopting tougher sentences for violent criminals and repeat offenders (90% of respondents ranked this measure priority 6 and above) (2) 88% - Improving family violence intervention programs and women's crisis centres (88% of respondents ranked this measure priority 6 and above) (3) 86% - Strengthening the Young Offenders program (86% of respondents ranked this measure priority 6 and above) (4) 83% - Improving community policing and crime prevention programs 83% of respondents ranked this measure priority 6 and above) (5) 82% - Fighting organized crime and biker gangs (82% of respondents ranked this measure priority 6 and above) (6) 78% - Putting more police officers on streets and highways (78% of respondents ranked this measure priority 6 and above) (7) 54% - Ensuring that all rifles and shotguns are registered 54% of respondents ranked this measure priority 6 and above) For more information, please call: Yorkton Office: (306) 782-3309 Ottawa Office: (613) 992-4394 e-mail: breitg0@parl.gc.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 06:10:42 -0600 From: "Richard M. Pisko" Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V2 #971 I have been searching the past Digest issues for the answer to my problem, but I can't find anything directly related; although the discussions on SBHGs and Schedule 3s comes close. Maybe DAT has an authoritative opinion? I have been issued a PAL/FAC with the AB99xxxxxxx number that does not have my grandfathered prohibited firearm status mentioned on the back. In a phone call today from Kathleen Roussell, I was told, in spite of applying before December 1998, and having the AB-99 etc. number, that I really have a PAL. She quoted Section 126 (of the Criminal Code?) and said that I should have the back of it corrected. I should: send for a Schedule 3 (from the CFO of Alberta), fill out the grandfather information, and send the form back. (With or without the FAC/PAL is apparently up to the CFO.) If I don't, I will supposedly have problems qualifying for grandfathered status when it becomes time to renew my PAL/FAC, and/or re-registering my FN, H&K, and/or buying anything new from the (former) OIC 13 list. She can't issue a covering "grandfather" letter from her office. There was no answer, that I remember, to my question about the old restricted weapon certificates along with the firearms being sufficient to grandfather me at some future time, but I was left with the impression that I had better do things _now_. The green slips are dated 910606 to 921008, if I am reading them correctly, but I have actually had at least one qualifying rifle since about 1977. In Canada since 1987 (declared at the border, much paperwork). What are the advantages or dangers in: a) doing as she suggested for the FAC/PAL b) sending my purple PAL look-alike to the CFO for "correction" (Will that mean I will receive a "genuine" PAL which cancels my unexpired FAC?) c) waiting until Dec 2000 to re-register my currently prohibited or restricted firearms, and have them verified. d) waiting to the last possible moment for everything. For the long guns (now prohibited), will I be able to get a special ATT (JUS 788 EF) to test fire them without a new PAL? Also a related question that I forgot to ask her: e) on the OIC 13 prohibited list, long arms, what does grandfathered status allow you to legally buy, only the same make and model; or could I get a Steyr AUG commercial version? Especially if I elect to keep my current FAC/PAL look-alike. Sorry not to have asked her all the appropriate questions for your information and comments. I was not at my work desk, and did not have access to my prepared queries, computer, and note taking tape machine. I know I didn't ask her what this amnesty covers, and I did have some questions on that, too. Respectfully, Richard Pisko ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 06:10:54 -0600 From: Peter Kearns Subject: Re: Albert Frohike To the moderator: I received a threat from the above individual relating to what may be a parcel or package bomb, which he claims to have sent to my store. I have contacted the RCMP (who tend to regard these kind of things seriously) and will keep you posted about what happens over the next few days. This person is obviously seriously deranged and since you posted the first message, (thank you) at least three other subscribers have contacted me who have been subjected to threats, profanity and "mail bombings" by this moron. He lives in Kamloops and is apparently daring someone to do something about him. (I guess he found the person who will!) If you publish this message I would like to add that we have his address and a lot of other details if his other victims wish to prosecute him as well. I will be attending a meeting tomorrow with the RCMP and from what I understand this clown won't be doing much computer harassment in future. If anyone is doing any research into computer harassment I will happily forward all of Frohikes messages which clearly demonstrate his escalating demntia, as he is a classic case. It appears that some of the other victims retained his messages complete with electronic ID and will be happy to forward them and their statements to the police. I guess we all risk angering lunatics like Frohike because we either write or say something the sick mind doesn't like. Unfortunately for him he chose to try and muzzle me, and that was a bad move......... Oh dear....... regards, Peter Kearns Simon says: In his latest threat Frohike claims he will plug my e-mail solid with fraudulent subscriptions to various forums. (One he really seems to like is Jock-Strip) I wonder if that says something about him? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 06:12:39 -0600 From: "Tom Zinck" Subject: Incorrect Registration certificate Hello. I suggest that you send a copy of the certificate to the NFA (call them at : 403-439-4091) and to Reform MP Gary Breitkreuz at 613-992-4394 (or 1-800-667-6606) It is important to point out to the Public that certificates are being issued with incorrect information. This certificate means that you are in illegal possession of a non-registered restricted firearm. - -Tom ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 06:11:16 -0600 From: "Rick Kokiw" Subject: Denver 25 The tragedy before us on the screen tonight was of 25 young lives wasted away. In this case as has been the same in the past, illegal guns were used. Proponents of gun registration will hold their banners high insisting that this is but one more reason to have gun registration. Automatic firearms are not legally possessed in most of the USA nor in Canada except with special permits to bonafide collectors. Much the same as a few years ago a small child's life was terminated in Winnipeg with a sawed-off shotgun stashed indiscretely by a careless parent, again an illegal gun was used which could have no other purpose than to commit a crime. This shooting in Denver was with illegal guns by known youth gang members with perhaps only the intention of having their minute of fame regardless of the outcome. Gun control cannot eliminate crime, it only fosters it whereby the criminal feels he has the upperhand as opposed to an unarmed public. My heart goes out to the parents who lost cherished loved ones. My anger is to those parents that let their children commit this offense by their neglect. Rick Kokiw ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 06:25:05 -0600 From: "WP" Subject: Re: Registration - restricted Immediately prior to December 1st I purchased a pistol through the then correct proceedures. It is now April 21, 1999 and I have yet to see the traditional "green slip" or its replacement. Is this normal? What recourse do I have? I was then given the temporary to get it home and the nice lady at the local police station, who by the way I sadly miss dealing with because they were so darn cooperative. even added it to my conveyance permit. In addition I have mis-placed a registration certificate and am interested in how I can get get a replacement. I would appreciate any information you could provide. W.Petrishen Responsible: 1.Citizen 2.Parent 3.Firearms Owner 4.NFA DONOR & 5.Reform Party Member. ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V2 #973 **********************************