From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest)
To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca
Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V2 #974
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Cdn-Firearms Digest Thursday, April 22 1999 Volume 02 : Number 974
In this issue:
FAC Denial
MCCRINDLE BLASTS GUN PROPONENT MP BREITKREUZ
re: AN OPEN LETTER TO GARRY BREITKREUZ, M.P.
CBC poll
Poll on RFC-Sask Web Site
Re: FAC Denial
Re: Liberals refuse to vote on Pankiw's Bill
Movie, music, guns not to blame for school shootings
Canadian Firearms Registry Records
Re: Denial
Auditor-General_Report_/_Rapport_du_Burea?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 06:26:26 -0600
From: Bert.van.Ingen
Subject: FAC Denial
A long time indispensable member of our hunt club has just been denied his
FAC! Despite the two professional references that were prepared to vouch
for his "non-violent" past the "goon"-in-charge chose to rule his
application out for "substance abuse:" Impaired driving implies that guy is
bad news with guns!
Of course this is going to make Canada much safer, now that there is an
angry man out there, with a operational farm and a trappers license, and
that can no longer own guns. He was notified of a forthcoming "prohibition
order" and a visit by police. Anyone denied a license obviously can not
possess dangerous killing sticks! Think this guy will ever buy a "hunting
license" again.? I don't need an answer.
He admits he goofed, but maintains that two apples does not make an orange.
If C68 is so wonderful what of the aboriginal community? Considerably
fewer of them will be allowed to own guns! Tell me, are there going to be
two laws, one for "them" and one for us ordinary white guys that stupidly
keep paying taxes!
Bert van Ingen, Manotick, Ontario
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A long time indispensable member of our hunt
club has just been denied his FAC! Despite the two professional references
that were prepared to vouch for his "non-violent" past the
"goon"-in-charge chose to rule his application out for "substance
abuse:" Impaired driving implies that guy is bad news with
guns!
Of course this is going to make Canada much
safer, now that there is an angry man out there, with a operational farm and a
trappers license, and that can no longer own guns. He was notified of a
forthcoming "prohibition order" and a visit by police. Anyone denied a
license obviously can not possess dangerous killing sticks! Think this guy
will ever buy a "hunting license" again.? I don't need an
answer.
He admits he goofed, but maintains that two
apples does not make an orange. If C68 is so wonderful what of the
aboriginal community? Considerably fewer of them will be allowed to own
guns! Tell me, are there going to be two laws, one for "them"
and one for us ordinary white guys that stupidly keep paying
taxes!
Bert van Ingen, Manotick,
Ontario
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 06:44:27 -0600
From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1"
Subject: MCCRINDLE BLASTS GUN PROPONENT MP BREITKREUZ
http://www.achilles.net/~pierre/notes.html
http://www.bourque.org/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 14:23:09 -0600
From: "Skeeter Abell-Smith"
Subject: re: AN OPEN LETTER TO GARRY BREITKREUZ, M.P.
The open letter attached requires a response.
Many are missing the fact that there were several bombs in the school in
Colorado. If those bombs had been set off during an assembly, how many of
the 400 some students would have been killed? More than 13? If they
had not been able to get shotguns, would they have not built the bombs?
Shotguns are a technology more than 100 years old. These shootings at
schools are very recent problem which must be related to other factors,
especially since access to firearms by kids has been getting harder, not
easier. There is even a law banning guns within about 1500 feet (500 metres)
of the schools.
On the other hand, crime rates are dropping faster in states with concealed
carry (for law abiding citizens with training) than in states where
firearms are more restricted or even banned (as with handguns in
Washington DC, which has one of the highest murder rates in the US.
Vermont on the other hand allows nearly anyone to carry and has lower
crime rates than Saskatchewan.
The author makes it clear in his letter that he approaches the topic from
the view of hating firearms, often referred to as "hoplophobia", or fear
of those "better armed". Hoplophobes tend to view others and themselves
as not trustworthy. Those of us who support the rights of the law-abiding
to vote, have access to alcohol _and_ cars, possess firearms, and safely
use flammable fuels, dangerous chemicals, and potentially harmful
drugs are far more trusting of ourselves _and_ _of_ _others_.
If a law against _murder_ doesn't stop these suicidal nuts, then another
gun law isn't going to help much.
[snip address]
Cc:
Hon. Preston Manning, Leader Reform party of Canada
Mr. Pierre Bourque (Bourque Newswatch)
The Montreal Gazette, Letters to the Editor
Mr. Jim Duff, CIQC AM600, Montreal, Qc
Mr Garry Breitkreuz, MP
"One cannot have a right to life without the right to defend it
with deadly force." -- me
cdn-firearms.ml.org is gone... Check out:
http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html
} Wednesday, April 21
}
} AN OPEN LETTER TO GARRY BREITKREUZ, M.P. (Yorkton-Melville)
}
} http://www.reform.ca/breitkreuzgpress/fire38.html
} http://InsideDenver.com/news/0420aas00.shtml
}
} Mr. Breitkreuz,
} The two above links are very pertinent to the spirit and content of
} this e-mail. The first is a link to your very own press release, as
} issued just today and copied from "Bourque Newswatch" (http://www.bourque.org } ) and the second is of a news report (taken some
} hours later from the same site) covering the gruesome details
} of this afternoon's Columbine High School massacre in Colorado.
}
} The Reform party's stance on Canadian gun control is quite well
} known and no surprise when viewed alongside the remainder of the
} party's entire platform. It was bad enough that your party supports
} citizen's movements against the fully enacted and official gun
} law but you couldn't have picked a worse day to trot out your silly
} little poll which purports to show that most Canadians oppose any
} law requiring the compulsory registration of firearms in Canada.
}
} I absolutely DESPISE any firearms. I admit that there is a certain
} need for them in such cases as military applications, law
} enforcement and aboriginal hunting in remote areas of Canada...
} THAT'S ALL!!! Now, I know that I would be dreaming if I were to
} expect anyone to successfully enact a law prohibiting the ownership
} or use of any firearm (with the exception of law enforcement,
} the military and aboriginals) but I would and DO heartily endorse
} a law that could possibly prevent even one senseless and violent
} death by merely requiring people to register their legal firearms.
}
} Oh sure, arguments have been put forward stating that there is no
} "proof" that the law would actually stop or prevent a crime
} involving a firearm. Some others are saying that the law is a
} violation of their constitutional rights (I suspect these people have been
} watching WAY too much American TV). Of course, there's even some
} saying that the actual cost of registering their firearms
} represents a serious financial setback or hardship.
}
} All of these excuses are just that... EXCUSES. If any Canadian
} is a registered owner of a legal firearm, for whatever sick purposes they
} may serve, he/she really should have nothing at all to worry about.
} Firearm owners are "supposed" to be responsible, sober and
} thoughtful of others in the care, use and storage of their
} firearms and ammunition. Why then would such upstanding and moral
} individuals balk at going along with a law that not only makes
} the above requirements mandatory but would also put up a form of
} barrier to those who would use firearms for illegal purposes.
}
} I will say this much Mr. Breitkreuz, if it were entirely up to me,
} I would make the law go even further and require registered firearm
} owners to mandatorily lock up their guns in federally operated
} regional repositories around the country. Whenever someone would
} have a hunting permit or a legal chit for a firing range, he/she
} would go to the repository where their weapon is stored and sign it
} out for a pre-agreed amount of time. Should the firearm owner fail
} to return the gun(s) by the limit time/date, an arrest warrant
} would be issued and the person charged with illegal ownership, use or
} storage.
}
} Now, I know you're saying the same old thing: "This would not fully
} stop someone from commiting a crime if they really wanted to
} commit one..." or "Criminals that want guns can get guns." While
} this is only partly true, the fact remains that the solution can as
} easily examined and calculated as grade school arithmetic: If you
} enact a law or laws that restrict the ownership, use and storage, if
} you (for now at least) enact a law requiring people to merely register
} their firearms, it is a start. You are effectively making firearms
} gradually more and more difficult to obtain.
}
} Why don't we look at firearm ownership like a luxury tax. Specifically
} let us equate it to tobacco taxes. In order to gradually
} discourage people from smoking, we raise the taxes. How about looking
} at it from the government-run automobile insurance
} departments' perspective. Experts have shown that younger drivers are
} more often involved in automotive accidents following such
} things as joy-riding, drug/alcohol abuse or just plain immaturity.
} The solution? Of course, raise insurance premiums for younger aged
} or beginning drivers' demographics to make driving less accessible
} to those who would tend to be irresponsible.
}
} The existing gun law is, in my opinion, but a minuscule step in the
} PROPER direction. Just how many times must Canada's
} gun-toting yahoos have to read about tragedies such as what occured
} in Colorado today before realizing that the ONLY way to keep
} guns out of the hands of people who would do harm to others is to make
} it even less desirable to own one. I'll tell you who fully
} realizes... Parents and friends of such massacres as Colorado, Ecole
} Polytechnique in Montreal and many, many others too
} painful and numerous to list here.
}
} Mr. Breitkreuz, it is more and more obvious to so many Canadian
} voters that the Reform party is a regional party of the West (and
} only a segment of that!) but please remember that it is not the
} "Old West" and while it still enrages me beyond description to
} observe the utter waste of such massacres as viewed on the news
} today, I will remind you that the Americans always
} melodramatically fall back on their own constitutional rights to
} bear arms and that, as Canadians, we MUST sharply veer away from
} that sentimental claptrap. We are every bit as vulnerable to similar
} massacres... Witness, if you will, the Ottawa transit Corporation
} shootings just weeks ago.
}
} Sincerely,
}
} Peter McCrindle
}
}
} CC:
} Hon. Preston Manning, Leader Reform party of Canada
} Mr. Pierre Bourque (Bourque Newswatch)
} The Montreal Gazette, Letters to the Editor
} Mr. Jim Duff, CIQC AM600, Montreal, Qc
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 06:15:57 -0600
From: briandrader@canada.com
Subject: CBC poll
Do you think that the U.S. should have stricter gun laws? Vote at
http://www.newsworld.cbc.ca/cgi-bin/templates/view.cgi?/news/1999/04/21/
massacre990421#tally
Both of the killers in the Littleton, Colorado massacre had prior felony
convictions, and thus under existing U.S. laws they could not have acquired
firearms legally. Nor could they have legally constructed the propane-tank
fuel/air explosives or the pipe bombs, for that matter.
Regards,
Brian
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 06:16:02 -0600
From: "Larry Going"
Subject: Poll on RFC-Sask Web Site
The RFC-Sask. Web Site asked the question:
"Do you believe the government will eventually attempt to confiscate all
privately owned firearms?"
(of 146 respondents)
97% Yes
0% No
3% Not Sure
A new poll asks:
"Would you buy a rifle or shotgun, knowing you now have to register it?"
RFC Sask. Web Page:
http://www3.sk.sympatico.ca/going/rfc/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 06:15:51 -0600
From: Gordon
Subject: Re: FAC Denial
there is already two versions of this law and only certain areas it is enforced in!
Ask your Solicitor General!
Bert.van.Ingen@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca wrote:
> A long time indispensable member of our hunt club has just been denied his
> FAC! ...,
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 06:16:07 -0600
From: dongres
Subject: Re: Liberals refuse to vote on Pankiw's Bill
> OTTAWA: Liberal MPs have refused to allow Parliament a vote on a bill by
> Reform MP, Dr. Jim Pankiw, which would have ensured that individuals who use
> a firearm in the commission of an offence are given longer jail sentences.
> The so called "10-20-life law" provides that anyone convicted of a violent
> crime would receive additional jail time of; 10 years for using a gun, 20 if
> the weapon is discharged, and life if someone - other than the offender or
> an accomplice - is injured.
This would be one time when I have to agree with Liberals, very reluctantly. Why should we
give criminals any signals that they'll get off much easier when they chop someone to
pieces or drag a person behind a vehicle until dead, or throw someone out the window,
poison a whole neighbourhood. Just because they don't use firearm? I just cannot see the
logic behind Pankiw's Bill. The subliminal message really is that people who use (have)
firearms are the worst kind. "Potentially" most dangerous and have to be dealt with in
very special way - criminals or not.
Ed "Saipan" D.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 06:16:17 -0600
From: Lorne Gunter
Subject: Movie, music, guns not to blame for school shootings
to appear in the Edmonton Journal Thursday April 22, 1999
Jack Thompson wants the entertainment, video game and pornography
industries to pay a $130 million for the shooting deaths a
year-and-a-half ago of Jessica James, Kayce Steger and Nicole Hadley at
Heath High School in Paducah, Kentucky.
Thompson, a Florida lawyer, insists the violent video games Doom, Quake
and Mortal Kombat trained the girls' murderer, 14-year-old Michael
Carneal, to kill, while the 1995 movie "The Basketball Diaries"
encouraged him to think shooting his classmates would make him popular.
And Internet pornography? Well, Thompson asserts, it taught Carneal to
associate sex and violence. So Thompson, on behalf of the dead girls'
parents, is suing the makers and distributors of The Basketball Diaries,
which features a dream sequence in which star Leonardo DiCaprio pulls a
shotgun from under his coat and blasts away at a teacher and several
classmates.
He and his clients are also suing video game makers Nintendo, Sega and
Sony, and a pair of porn peddlers.
Expect the pressure for such solutions to the horror of school shootings
to increase after the Littleton, Colorado massacre Tuesday, especially
given the possible connection between the black trench coats warn
constantly by Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, the killers in Littleton,
and the one worn by DiCaprio in Diaries.
While all murders are tragic, we find the murder of vibrant, hope-filled
youths especially difficult to understand. So look for more calls to
clean up the entertainment industry, to reduce violence in movies and
television, to tame rock and rap lyrics, to ban Marilyn Manson.
And, of course, look for more demands for gun control.
The New York Times editorialized that the shootings were "a grim
reminder that guns are still too readily available." And Mark DeAntonio,
a Los Angeles psychiatrist, told the Associated Press, "The biggest
difference between adolescents now and adolescents 20 years ago is the
incredible access to firearms."
But both the anti-entertainment and anti-gun crowds are wrong.
If anything, adolescent access to guns has been declining for 70 years,
as North Americans have moved from farms and small towns, where guns are
common as tools and recreation equipment, to cities.
Of the hundreds of students at Columbine High, many dozens would have
had ready access to firearms, yet didn't bring their guns to school and
start assassinating their fellows. Hundreds would have listened to the
same songs, watched the same movies, played the same games, without
being transformed into psychotics.
The true solutions will not be quick or easy. They are the reaffirmation
of adult authority, especially parental authority, and the rebuilding of
family and community.
What was Michael Carneal, the shooter in Kentucky, doing routinely
viewing Internet pornography? He was 14. And what was he doing watching
The Basketball Diaries over and over again? Or playing Doom for hour
upon hour? Where were his parents?
Lawyer Thompson claims entertainment moguls made Carneal a killer
"without teaching him any of the constraints or responsibilities needed
to inhibit such a killing capacity." But aren't those parental and
community tasks?
In three of the five major school shootings of the past two years, the
killers have come from broken homes.
But not Kip Kinkell, who killed two and wounded 22 in Springfield,
Oregon last year. His parents were devoted to him. So devoted they tried
to explain away his history of mental instability and run-ins with
police. So devoted they tried to "love him out" of his problems, rather
than confront him. So devoted his father, who opposed gun ownership,
even bought him the three weapons he used in the hope that would snap
him out of his obsession with violence and talk of killing.
In Colorado, Kentucky, Oregon; Jonesboro, Arkansas and Pearl,
Mississippi - in all five cases - the killers were social outcasts whose
obsessions with unreality were noticed, but unchallenged, by parents,
school officials and community members.
Many divorced or too-busy parents are too tired to discipline their
children and fear the loss of love if they do. Schools fear law suits.
And no one in the community corrects the actions of others' children,
and would get an earful from the parents' if they dared.
But until parents stop divorcing freely, stop abandoning their children
to "caregivers" or no care, stop glossing over anti-social behaviour,
and start regularly joining in activities and discussions with their
kids, while also supporting the efforts of schools and other parents (in
return for support in their own efforts), no amount of censorship or gun
control will stop school shootings.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 06:16:25 -0600
From: Richard Green
Subject: Canadian Firearms Registry Records
In response to a request under the Privacy Act, the CFR mailed (in only 34
days - not bad) a verification of the registration information for a
restricted revolver. The information was identical to that on the
registration certificate (green card) issued in 1977 except for the model,
which is listed as "Top Break Hammerless" on the registration certificate
and is now "Safety Hammer Automatic" in the CFR files.
This revolver does not have any safety that I can find. Puzzling. Maybe
someone who is familiar with Iver Johnson revolvers can explain?
Richard Green
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 06:16:29 -0600
From: MJ
Subject: Re: Denial
Of course the "traditional" double standard between aboriginals and OWG's
will continue to be maintained by the fed govt with gun control just like
they have with the British North America Act for the past few hundred
years. Heck it's a bureaucratic tradition in Canada --- divide and conquer.
MJ
At 06:26 21/04/99 -0600, you wrote:
> If C68 is so wonderful what of the aboriginal community? Considerably
>fewer of them will be allowed to own guns! Tell me, are there going to be
>two laws, one for "them" and one for us ordinary white guys that stupidly
>keep paying taxes!
>Bert van Ingen, Manotick, Ontario
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 06:16:36 -0600
From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1"
Subject: Auditor-General_Report_/_Rapport_du_Burea?
> The April 1999 report from the Office of the Auditor-General of Canada was
> tabled in the House of Commons on April 20, 1999. You may access this
> report at the following Internet address:
> http://www.oag-bvg.gc.ca/domino/reports.nsf/html/99menu_e.html . This
> report will be added to the EasyFind/Other Links section of the
> Parliamentary Intraparl website.
>
> INet Group
> Information Services Directorate
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------------------
>
> Le rapport d'avril 1999 du Bureau du verificateur general du Canada a ete
> depose a la Chambre des communes le 20 avril 1999. Vous pouvez avoir acces
> a ce rapport a l'adresse Internet suivante :
> http://www.oag-bvg.gc.ca/domino/rapports.nsf/html/99menu_f.html. Ce
> rapport sera ajoute a la partie Recherche rapide/Autres liens de
> l'Intranet parlementaire.
>
> Groupe INet
> Direction des Services de l'information
------------------------------
End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V2 #974
**********************************