From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #9 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Status: X-Mozilla-Status: 8001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 37247a2500001075 Cdn-Firearms Digest Thursday, May 20 1999 Volume 03 : Number 009 In this issue: Protest Overseers Re: Letter in Yukon Paper Re: Canada Post conspiracy??? Way to go Tom Selleck The Kennasaw Ordinance Left losing stomach for more gun control ? RE YOUR POST ON CLINTON'S EXECUTIVE ORDER BETWEEN 600 AND 800 BUREAUCRATS WORKING ON GUN REGISTRATION PROJECT ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 05:54:03 -0600 From: Peter Cronhelm Subject: Protest Overseers I wonder if there were armed RCMP snipers on the parliament rooftops during the anti-abortion rally last week? This movement has been known in the past for its violence so there should well have been machine gun toting police and snipers keeping watch. Or is it only us peacful, law abiding gun owners who get that sort of treatment? Peter Cronhelm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 05:54:05 -0600 From: Kyle and Barbara Berry Subject: Re: Letter in Yukon Paper Most guns = most deaths ???? I'm quite certain that in one set of statistical "facts" I've seen, it was apparent that Newfoundland had a highest number of firearms per population. They also had the lowest number of deaths by firearm. I've been searching my files for the needed information, but without luck. Has anyone else seen these figures? Was what I saw a misprint? It struck me at the time because it was an obvious indication that lifestyle and moral beliefs played a more important role in the misuse of firearms than ease of access. K. "Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of stupidity." Frank Leahy Kyle and Barbara Berry 1036 Reasbeck Crescent Dawson Creek, BC Canada V1G 1P2 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 05:54:46 -0600 From: Gordon Subject: Re: Canada Post conspiracy??? Write to the PostMaster General for your Province! Give him all the info you can about times and dates - some employee has taken it upon himself (herself) to censor your mail by redirecting it ! I have done this with Postal related problems and had instant action . Steve Morris wrote: > Just got a phone call from the Ontario firearm office about my PAL. They > were calling to confirm my address because Canada Post had sent my PAL back > to them. There were no errors in my address. The woman I talked to said > that this is a common occurrence, and that I would have had my PAL a month > ago if Canada Post hadn't sent it back to Miramachi, who then sent it to her > in Owen Sound. > > Has anyone else heard about this happening? > > Steve Morris ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 05:54:07 -0600 From: Peter Cronhelm Subject: Way to go Tom Selleck > We need a few more of these.... > > Rosie O'Donnell slugs it out with Tom Selleck over gun > control > 7.44 p.m. ET (2345 GMT) May 19, 1999 > > By David Bauder, Associated Press > > NEW YORK (AP) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ? Rosie O'Donnell said she wanted a peaceful discussion > about gun control when actor Tom Selleck came on her show Wednesday. It > didn't work out that way. > > The actor, who has filmed a commercial for the National Rifle Association, > instead got into a heated debate with O'Donnell, a frequent critic of the NRA > since the Columbine High School massacre. > > Selleck said he believed gun control legislation wouldn't have done anything to > prevent the tragedy, and that it was wrong to legislate against guns during a > period of national mourning. > > When O'Donnell complained about NRA opposition to efforts to ban assault > weapons, Selleck said he couldn't speak for the organization. > > "You can't say `I will not take responsibility for anything the NRA represents > if > you're doing an ad for the NRA. You can't say that. Do you think you can?''' > O'Donnell said. > > Selleck said it was "an act of moral vanity'' for O'Donnell to assume that > someone > who disagrees with her cares any less about gun control. He said he felt > attacked. > > "I didn't come on your show to have a debate,'' he said. "I came on your show > to > plug a movie. That's what I'm doing here. If you think it's proper to have a > debate > about the NRA, I'm trying to be fair with you. This is absurd.'' > > An exasperated Selleck looked out on the silent audience. > > "It's certainly entertaining,'' he said. "Look at the audience, laughing and > having a > great old time.'' > > "It's a serious subject,'' O'Donnell shot back. "I don't think it's something > to laugh > about.'' > > Conceding the debate hadn't gone well, O'Donnell apologized to Selleck, saying > she wasn't making a personal attack. Selleck, looking down at the floor, didn't > accept it. > > "It's your show,'' he said, "and you can talk about it after I leave.'' - -- ?Ia??a ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 05:54:39 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: The Kennasaw Ordinance The Kennasaw Ordinance: A first-hand account Note: Author's name withheld by request. > Crime prevention backed up with a cure > American city keeps thugs moving. Why won't Edmonton? > > Canadian gun control laws are based on the liberal notion that crime would > > be eliminated if there were no guns in private hands. For a small city in > > Georgia, however, mandatory gun ownership has made violent crime > practically > non-existant. Yet don't tell our politicians and police chiefs this > story--they are comfortably in control and that's the way they like it. > > The City of Kennesaw is located about a half-hour drive northwest of > Atlanta. With its close proximity to crime-ridden Atlanta and with two > interstate highways running through the community, one would assume it > would > be a magnet for criminals of the worst type. To the contrary, in fact, > and > even the thugs will readily confess they know why. "It's a question of > attitude. That is, that those who would commit crime should not bother, > just move on," says Kennesaw Mayor John Haynie. > > In 1982, Kennesaw adopted an ordinance amending the Code of Ordinances > which > meant that most homeowners would be compelled by law to possess a firearm > for defensive purposes. The amendment stated that: "Every head of > household > residing in the City Limits of the City of Kennesaw is required to > maintain > a fire arm, together with ammunition therefore. Exempt from the effect of > > said ordnance are those heads of household who suffer a physical or mental > > disability which would prohibit them from using such a fire arm. Further > exempt from the effect of said ordinance are those heads of household who > are paupers or who conscientiously oppose maintaining fire arms as a > result > of belief or religious doctrine, or persons convicted of a felony." > > The root of this law can be found in the defence of Colonial America when > communities asserting independence from Britain required its citizens to > maintain a musket or rifle and six balls with powder at all times. > Indeed, > Canadian history is complete with references to citizen soldiers defending > > the nation from perceived internal and external threats. The War of 1812, > > Riel Rebellion, Northwest Rebellion, Mackenzie-Papineau Rebellion, the > Fenian Invasion and the Winnipeg General Strike are examples of when > ordinary citizens were armed by their nation to take up its quarrel. > Denying the nation's history, Ottawa today would like guns only in the > hands > of policemen and professional soldiers. > > Stateside, the cause of the now-famous Kennesaw Ordnance was the move > introduced in 1981 by lawmakers in Morton Grove, Illinois to outlaw the > possession of handguns. With the flood of positive liberal media coverage > > that followed this, the people of Kennesaw decided to create their own law > > and get a few headlines for themselves. The Kennesaw Ordinance was warmly > > welcomed within the community and media agencies from around the globe > converged on the small city to cover the story. By far, most reported > that > the city had been taken over by gun-crazy rowdies, something akin to "The > Good, the Bad, and the Ugly" or Dodge City. > > In reality, Kennesaw does not advertise its firearms ownership. There are > > no warning signs for visitors and there are no sentries patrolling the > streets. Criminals do not ply their trade in Kennesaw because of the > city's > reputation. As crime rose steadily in Morton Grove, Kennesaw realized a > sudden drop in its crime rate. Business and residential burglaries, for > example, were immediately halved. The overall lack of crime in Kennesaw > has > been steady since the inception of the ordinance. > > Consider these low numbers: the Kennesaw Police Department reported that > between 1995 and 1997, there were only three armed robberies, two rapes, > no > arsons, 33 auto thefts, 80 burglaries and 532 thefts. The 1996 figures > for > the City of Edmonton paint a much worse picture. When the populations of > the two cities are equal, the theft figures for the City of Champions are > twice that of Kennesaw; robbery, 28.9 times; murder, 20 times; assault, > 4.3 > times; sex related/rape, 13.9 times; break and enter, 4.2 times; auto > thefts, 4.3 times. Furthermore, Edmonton is not flanked by a metropolis > like Atlanta. * > > Anti-gun figureheads everywhere have repeatedly presented three myths > about > gun ownership, all of which having been dispelled by the Kennesaw > experience: First, that the easy access to firearms in the house will lead > > to a rise in domestic gun violence. Since the passing of the law, not one > > husband or wife has been killed late at night for coming into their house, > > and there has been no incident where a handgun was used against a partner. > > Second, that the easy access of firearms in the house will lead to an > increase in accidental injuries to children in the house. In reality, no > child has been injured in a gun accident since the law was passed. Part > of > this success stems from proper gun safety training done by local police > officers themselves. The Kennesaw officers work one-on-one with the > citizens at the range. If the citizen does not own a firearm at the time > of > training course, the police actually loan them one. > > The third myth dispelled in Kennesaw is that the more guns available in an > > area, the more violent crime. The last murder was in 1989, and that was > done with a knife. There have been no murders using a handgun since 1986. > > Kennesaw's low crime rate coincided with the doubling of the city's > population from 1980 to the mid 1990's. Thus, population increase and > easy > access to firearms did not increase crime, domestic dispute and violent > crime, a fact inconceivable by the Ottawa elite. > > Kennesaw continues to stick out like a sore thumb in a socialist run > America. Groups like the American Civil Liberties Union have tried to > have > the City's ordinance quashed in the high courts. They were bitterly > disappointed when the law was recently upheld in the United States Supreme > > Court. Mayor Haynie says the City's law attracts queries from countries > as > diverse as Japan, Germany, England, France, Sweden and Canada. He > estimates > he grants two interviews per month on the subject. With the lowest crime > rate in Georgia and the sixth lowest rate in the entire country, > individuals > and states want to know more about the law. "It is not the Wild West > here," > Mayor Haynie tells them. "Is the law effective? Without a doubt. Will > this law work everywhere? I can't say, but I do know it works in > Kennesaw." > > Note to editor: > Firearms are spelled "fire arms" in the law. > -The author visited this city in 1997. > * Based on statistics supplied by Edmonton and Kennasaw Police > Departments. > These figures should be reverified as time goes on and are offered only as > a > snapshot of the overall situation. > > > POSTSCRIPT: > Ask Professor Gary Mauser of Simon Fraser University if firearms have any > use in Canadian society and he will tell you that there is no doubt that > guns save lives. In three recent Canadian studies that correlate closely > to > the findings of similar American studies (Kleck et al), Prof. Mauser and > others found that each year in Canada, firearms are used an average of > 66,000 times to defend the user from either human or animal threats, and > more significantly, approximately 30,000 times annually to protect against > > criminal violence threats. These reports, of course, were only those in > which the respondents admitted using a firearm. In his dissertation > entitled "Armed Self-Defense: The Canadian Case", Prof. Mauser wrote that > firearms contribute significantly to public safety. "It is unknown how > many > lives are actually saved, but if a life were saved in only 5% of these > incidents, then the private ownership of firearms would save more than > 3,300 > lives annually in Canada," he claims. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 05:54:14 -0600 From: PATHJM@aol.com Subject: Left losing stomach for more gun control ? I recently had the opportunity to debate Brook Jefferey, author of "Hard Right Turn" (an expose on Canada's "neo conservative" movement) during a book signing at a Chapters book store in Langley B.C. She stated that although she still supports "gun control", she believes Bill C68 and the resulting Firearms Act in it's present form are "a mistake" (her words) but that the Liberals will ammend it to better suit reality. She couldn't say when or how. I asked several pointed questions relating to the Liberal's agenda and confiscation. She stated that she didn't believe that they would confiscate anyone's guns, but when I described my own impending confiscation predicament, she had no answer and I'm not sure she even understood it. NFA is alluded to several times in "Hard Right Turn", and her main thrust is that Reform is hypocritical for pandering to "the gun lobby" while criticizing govt.funded left wing special interest groups. Dave Tomlinson, John Bauer and Prof. Al Dorans are mentioned and accused of fomenting panic over the confiscation issue. The exchange was respectfull, and I had to chuckle when she referred to lefty liberal lawyer Clayton Ruby as "a Loon". Although I'm sure the left still supports gun control, it seems that the shine is off C68 and it's resulting idiotic bloated bureaucracy. At least to some of them. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 05:54:34 -0600 From: Ron Alton Subject: RE YOUR POST ON CLINTON'S EXECUTIVE ORDER Randy this is serious stuff for us target shooters and hunters!! We go across the border to registered and league trap and skeet shoots with alarming regularity and nary a querry from US Customs/Immigration folks up to now! We also pass thro the USA while travelling to shoots in Canada eg SSMarie via Michigan to SWOnt or across thro Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota and N.Dakota to get to shoots and hunts out in western Canada. To use my wife and I as an example we often will have a half dozen 12ga trap and skeet guns with us for competition or similarly, hunting shotguns if travelling to hunting destinations such as for pheasants in S.Dakota or up into our prairies for waterfowl and we've never had a problem at the USA border and I sure hope this new edict will not create any. In fact we have some trips planned over the next few months and I hope we don't have to get into the paperwork of some new kind of permit to travel with these sporting firearms? Do you know how this will affect shooters and hunters for such travel? Do you have a definition of what they consider "imports" under this dictator's executive order? Hopefully the definition is with regard to "commercial" imports and not to sport shooters' temporary imports for own use such as above example? Appreciate any advice you can provide. Thanks. Ron Alton N. Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 06:09:00 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: BETWEEN 600 AND 800 BUREAUCRATS WORKING ON GUN REGISTRATION PROJECT NEWS RELEASE May 20, 1999 For Immediate Release BETWEEN 600 AND 800 BUREAUCRATS WORKING ON GUN REGISTRATION PROJECT "These federal workers are using valuable resources that could be better spent doing real police work." Yorkton - Today, Garry Breitkreuz, MP for Yorkton-Melville, fired his latest salvo and scored a direct hit against the Liberal make-work project for bureaucrats, namely, the Canadian Firearms Registration Project. "For months now the Liberal lackeys have been have been claiming they only have a couple of hundred civil servants working on the gun registration project," said Breitkreuz. "Now we have documents proving there are more than 600 federal positions with approvals in place to increase the number of staff to 800. And this is only for 9 provinces because all the legally owned guns in Quebec are being processed and registered in Montreal (paid for with federal tax dollars of course). What will the people in those communities suffering from increasing crime and police budget cuts say when they see this waste?" Breitkreuz released a copy of paper prepared for him by the Library of Parliament Research Branch called, Structure of Organizations in Charge of Implementing the Firearms Legislation. "The document is quite revealing. It will help everyone who has come in contact with the Canadian Firearms Centre understand why the service is so appallingly bad and the production so terribly behind schedule," commented Breitkreuz. "The government must have used the 'chaos' theory of organizational management to arrive at this monstrosity." See if this makes any sense: * 221 bureaucrats work for the RCMP in the Canadian Firearms Registry (CFR) in Ottawa * 96 bureaucrats work for the Dept. of Justice at the Canadian Firearms Centre (CFC) in Ottawa * 198 bureaucrats (minimum) 382 (maximum) work for the Dept. of Human Resources Development at the Central Processing Site (CPS) in Miramichi, New Brunswick (26 Dept. of Justice bureaucrats also work in Miramichi). * 77 bureaucrats work for the Federal Chief Firearms Officer (CFO) Services in the provinces and territories that have opted-out of administration of firearms registration. These bureaucrats are appointed by the Minister of Justice but work for the RCMP. (12 Dept. of Justice bureaucrats work in CFOs in Newfoundland and the Yukon) * 20 bureaucrats work for Revenue Canada Customs in the Firearms Initiative Group in Ottawa. * Plus all the federally-subsidized bureaucrats in Quebec processing firearms licences and registrations "That's a total of more than 600 bureaucrats and they are doing less to improve public safety in a whole year than 6 front-line police officers could accomplish in a single shift," declared Breitkreuz. "Even at an average cost to the taxpayer of $40,000 a year for each bureaucrat, that works out to $24 million just in employee costs. The government admitted they spent $134 million in the last fiscal year and plan to spend $50 to $60 million every year to operate the registry. Compare this to the original estimate of $85 million over five years tabled in the House of Commons in 1995 by Justice Minister Allen Rock. Our sources in Revenue Canada, the RCMP and the Canadian Police Association say the implementation price tag is already at a billion dollars," No wonder the Department of Justice is taking so long to answer my questions and motions that ask them for details and how much the Liberals have wasted on this politically-motivated, mandarin-made-mess." - -30- Note: Report summary attached. For a copy of the 56-page report, please call: Yorkton Office: (306) 782-3309 Ottawa Office: (613) 992-4394 e-mail: breitg0@parl.gc.ca NUMBER OF FEDERAL EMPLOYEES WORKING ON THE FIREARMS REGISTRATION PROJECT By Garry Breitkreuz, MP (Yorkton-Melville) March 19, 1999 The following is a summary of the number of federal employees working on the implementation of the government's firearms legislation. The information was obtained from a paper prepared by the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament at the request of Garry Breitkreuz, MP for Yorkton-Melville. The paper is titled, "Structure of Organizations in Charge of Implementing the Firearms Legislation" and dated May 17, 1999. Canadian Firearms Registry (Ottawa) The Canadian Firearms Registry is administered by the RCMP and is a distinct entity from the Canadian Firearms Centre. Number of Employees at CFR (as of March 31, 1999) - 221 positions * Number may increase or decrease depending on intake of firearms registrations * 211 full-time equivalents and 10 part-time * 200 located in Ottawa, approx. 20 in provincial locations * 3 in Registrar's Office * 5 in Administrative Support * 80 in Verification Section * 26 in Legislation and Regulations * 26 in Firearms Registration * 26 in Identification Section * 26 in Verifier's Network * 17 in Laboratory * 11 in Firearms Act Project Office Canadian Firearms Centre (Ottawa) The Canadian Firearms Centre is administered by the Dept. of Justice and is a distinct entity from the Canadian Firearms Registry. Number of Employees at CFC - 96 positions (6 vacant) * majority of positions are located at CFC headquarters in Ottawa * 26 Dept. of Justice positions at the Central Processing Site in Miramichi, NB * 12 Dept. of Justice positions in Newfoundland and Yukon working in the Chief Firearms Offices. Central Processing Site (Miramichi) The Central Processing Site (CPS) is administered by Human Resources Development Canada. Number of Employees at CPS - 198 positions minimum - 382 positions maximum * all employees are located in Miramichi, New Brunswick Note #1: The applications for licences and registration certificates made in Quebec are not sent to the CPS in Miramichi but go to a processing site in Montreal. Note # 2: On May 17, 1999, a supervisor at the Central Processing Site in Miramichi told a licenced firearms dealer that they had "287 workers waiting patiently to take your calls." Revenue Canada Customs (Ottawa) Revenue Canada Customs has established a Firearms Initiative Group. All are Revenue Canada Customs employees. Number of Employees in Firearms Initiative Group - 20 positions (between 1996 - 2001) - - all employees are located in Ottawa Federal Chief Firearms Officer Services (In Opting-Out Provinces & Territories) Chief Firearms Officers (CFOs) are appointed by the Minister responsible in their respective provinces. The federal Minister of Justice appoints the CFOs in the territories and provinces that have opted out (Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta, NWT and Nunavut) but these employees work for the RCMP. Number of Employees in Federal CFO Services - 77 positions (16 vacant positions) * 74 positions are full-time equivalent * Number of positions may fluctuate to improve services ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #9 ********************************