From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #76 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Status: X-Mozilla-Status: 8001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 37247a2500004148 Cdn-Firearms Digest Saturday, July 17 1999 Volume 03 : Number 076 In this issue: Quote to remember Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #73 Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #73 CFC Bulletin No. 33 comparison with registering automobiles. Interesting bits from BC Why? Toronto Mayor - Lastman's Quote Lies My Government Told Me, Parts I and II Letters to the Editor Re: Hollow point handgun ammunition IFAW moves to Manitoba ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 06:02:07 -0600 From: Myles Bruns Subject: Quote to remember "You'll never ban guns. The good guys are giving them up, the bad guys are keeping them so what the hell good is it." - -- Toronto Mayor Mel Lastman. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 06:10:45 -0600 From: Martin Simmons Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #73 Copy of a e-mail I sent to Mayor Mel Lastman; Mayor Lastman; How is banning legal possession of firearms going to prevent criminals from using guns that were most likely bought on the black market? To posess a firearms legally these days (since 1976), and specifically handguns, one must go through a screening process in which you are checked for criminal activity. I hope that the person or persons responsible for shooting Constable Ferdinand are caught, justice served, and that the constable makes a full recovery, but the solution to such incidents is not going to be making law-abiding citizens criminals by making gun possession a crime, but by making crimes committed with guns an extremely serious offense, warranting an extremely serious punishment. Please remember that firearms ownership is not illegal, and that firearms owners vote. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 06:12:30 -0600 From: Martin Simmons Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #73 In today's (07/16/1999 page A4) National Post, Toronto Mayor Mel Lastman is quoted as saying "I would like to see no guns in Toronto at all, but I don't know how to accomplish that", and that he wants the federal government to ban firearms within the city limits. I feel that concerned citizens should inform Mayor Lastman that it is extremely unlikely that Constable Ferdinand was shot with a legally aquired and owned handgun, and that by banning the posession of legally owned firearms is not going to decrease the rate of crimes committed with firearms, as is demonstrated by the city of Washington D.C. , a city where firearms posession is a felony. Mayor Lastman can be e-mailed at mailto:mayor_lastman@city.toronto.on.ca , (mayor_lastman@city.toronto.on.ca) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 06:24:45 -0600 From: Dave Tomlinson Subject: CFC Bulletin No. 33 >Canadian Firearms@CFC 07/16/99 08:57 AM Bulletin No. 33 >The Gun Shows Regulations >As you are aware, the Gun Shows Regulations have been deferred. >This means that the licensing of gun show sponsors and exhibitors, >as well as the notification, safe storage and display requirements >that are found in the Guns Shows Regulations are not yet in force. >Although these Regulations are deferred, all other provisions >under the Firearms Act that are in force must be followed, whether >at a gun show or anywhere else. For instance, the buying or >trading of a firearm at a gun show is considered a transfer of the >firearm from one owner to another, as of December 1, 1998. The >buyers and sellers, therefore, must follow the transfer procedures. >Selling or Trading Firearms at a Gun Show >Under the Firearms Act, to buy, barter, receive as a gift or >inherit a firearm is considered a transfer. NFA: Borrowing, renting and/or leasing are NOT "transfers." >There are two key steps to the transfer process: >- All transfers must be authorized by your Chief Firearms Officer >(CFO); >- The firearm must be registered to the person receiving the >firearm - the new owner. >A transfer can be conducted by filling out an application form or, >in most instances, by giving information over the telephone. NFA: Not "conducted." Started -- but not COMPLETED. The transfer is completed ONLY when the new registration certificate arrives. >If, as the organizer of the gun show, you know that some >exhibitors intend to sell firearms, you should contact your CFO. >The CFO will decide how to handle the transfers for that show, >depending on the size of the show and the number of transfers >expected. The CFO will assist the organizer in ensuring any >transfers take place in an efficient manner. To contact your CFO >call the CFC toll-free at 1 800 731-4000 and an operator will >connect your call. NFA: This is a sore area. Gun shows often receive special fast service that is denied to businesses, and that is discrimination. As businesses get angrier, gun show transfers are disappearing. >If you use the paper application method to transfer a firearm, you >will need to fill out one of the following two forms, depending on >the class of the firearm: >- Application to Transfer and Register Non-Restricted Firearms to >New Owners (JUS 682); >- Application to Transfer and Register Restricted and Prohibited >Firearms to New Owners (JUS 681). >These forms are available by calling the CFC toll-free or by >printing them off the CFC Web site. It would be useful to have >some forms on hand if you are planning on selling firearms. >If a transfer is conducted by filling out an application form, the >new owner will have to wait until they get their registration >certificate in the mail, before they can take their firearm home. NFA: One should wait until the registration certificate arrives before taking delivery however the transfer is done -- or one is a fool and may wind up in court -- paying a lawyer. >In the telephone transfer method, the new owner can take the >firearm as soon as a Transfer Authorization Number (TAN) is >issued. This can usually be done the same day for non-restricted >firearms. NFA RED WARNING: Taking possession on the authority of a TAN is DANGEROUS. CC s. 91 and 92 make it a criminal offence to be in possession of a firearm UNLESS you are the holder of a registration certificate for it. The TAN is NOT a registration certificate, and there is no exemption for a person who has a TAN. CC s. 117.03 authorizes any peace officer to seize the firearm UNLESS you can "produce, on demand...a registration certificate for the firearm. CC s. 117.11 puts the burden of proof that the firearm IS registered on YOU -- and the only easy way to prove that you are the holder of that registration certificate is to PRODUCE it. If you do not have it, you cannot produce it. Therefore, the NFA STRONGLY recommends that you do NOT take possession until your registration certificate for the firearm arrives. That can easily take more than six months, and it is dangerous to be in possession for six months without that very necessary registration certificate. You should also know that if you SELL, BARTER or GIVE a firearm to someone else, YOUR registration certificate EXPIRES at the moment that OWNERSHIP transfers. [FA s. 66: "A registration certificate for a firearm expires where (a) the holder of the registration certificate ceases to be the OWNER of the firearm [emphasis added]." YOu cannot hold possession FOR him, and he cannot take it (unless he is a fool) until his registration certificate arrives. UNDERSTAND THE LAW. For every unrestricted firearm that you owned on 01 Dec 98, you were automatically granted an invisible "deemed" registration certificate on that day. It cannot be legally transferred unless it is REGISTERED to the new owner, because that new owner does NOT have an invisible "deemed" registration certificate for it, and therefore is in violation of CC s. 91 or 92 -- by possessing a firearm with NO registration certificate. >It is important to remember that anyone who receives a firearm in >a transfer, e.g. buys a firearm, must hold a valid Firearms >Acquisition Certificate (FAC) or a Possession and Acquisition >Licence. NFA: There is no such thing as an FAC today. All valid FACs were automatically converted into PALs on 01 Dec 98 by FA s. 120. >As well, when someone receives a firearm in a transfer, they must >pay a $25 processing fee (per firearm) at the time of the transfer >(if by telephone by Visa or MasterCard only). This fee covers the >cost of both processing and issuing a registration certificate to >a new owner. >Reminder - On December 1, 1999: >- the fee for a possession-only licence increases from $10 to $45; >and >- the fee for registering non-restricted firearms you owned on >December 1, 1998 increases from $10 to $14. David A Tomlinson National President, NFA ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 06:26:16 -0600 From: "Jules Sobrian" Subject: comparison with registering automobiles. I enjoyed Paul Meyer's application of gun registration to automobiles in CFD #71. I would like to add another comparison: If a provincial Liberal government were elected, we would have car-free zones. Owners would have to store their cars in central depositories (you will have to walk or ride a bicycle to the garages) and sign them out for specific periods. They would also be limited to where they could drive with these vehicles (carrying permits). Jules. RFO of O ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 06:26:58 -0600 From: rmcreat@istar.ca (Michelle Traver) Subject: Interesting bits from BC Joy McPhail has resigned as Finance Minister. Her career has brought in a deficit with each portfolio she has had. While Minister of Human Resources, there were a number of children loose their lives while under government care. On another note; A Medical Officer at Victoria General Hospital has declared that the only humane treatment for the rabbit infestation on hospital grounds is to shoot them. It seems that culling has no real effect because the rabbits reproduce so quickly. Sterilizing them has its own side effects so the only method left is to shoot them. Hmmm. Interesting pronouncement after some of the news articles recently. Privacy is a sacred thing, Michelle Traver (owner) SSAC NCBCS Spokesperson HACS, NFA member http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/9460/index.html 604-253-3311 fax 604-255-2202 1708 E. 1st Ave. Vancouver, BC V5N 1B1 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 06:28:38 -0600 From: "Michael Purdy" Subject: Why? I just had to vent a bit about what many young Canadians think about guns and their existence. I also would like to state that the following is heart felt and in no way is intended to offend the gun community, you guys didn't strike first blood....... First off, why didn't our parents (thats all of 'em, white black, green, yellow etc.)agree to peaceful means instead of hateful, irresponsible deadly ways of protecting us? Secondly ; don't you stupid people know that if you give some one (anyone) a gun the dumbo will use it eventually? And don't go spewing American stats at me either. This effort is also for the protection of Americans too. Third ; everyone agrees one should have the right to defend/protect themselves, but advocate the type of weapons tyrants use? Those people should all be shot, and people who believe in peace should inherit the Earth. I thought you people were Canadians! If you were real, you would have thought up some genius way of avoiding that type of action at all costs. Instead, you think there should be a winchester in every house to kill instead of think! Shame on you, move to where that is legal, because we know that your head is already there. Forth ; I think it is a well known fact that anyone who thinks they need a gun in this country is a baby! Give me a break! I lived in the most dangerous part of this country and kicked major butt there, and was never in fear of anything.I, however was brought up in 70's 80's and 90's , not in the time of Loyalists and Indians! Why don't people learn how to transform their mind in to a weapon? Fifth ;To me guns are like cigaretts.If the government wasn't so corrupt and weak, people would know that they are addictive and could kill you! Likewise if Joe public was informed of how many people ( particularilly the dangerous kind to have guns such as; the fearful, criminals, teachers, cops, parents, weird war vets, houswives etc.) had access to firearms, most people would want one too. Or they would wake up and realize that there is no safe type of person to have a gun. Evere ask yourself this question; if people are so smart (Docs, Laywer, Dentists [our elite of the smart]) then why do those people advocate the use of weapons? Why do Dentists shoot themselves? Why does little Billy pull the trigger on his Mommy? Why don't people ban them? Why not instead of " save the whales", why not " don't shoot bullets, save lives"? Funny huh? Sad person you are, you would laugh, I bet you've seen a lot a violence that you created... Why does our country spend more on guns/protection/police/war then on our kids and our beloved environment/countryside? Voted number one this year again huh? I bet we stuck a gun doen thier throat. Get a life and mget rid of your piece. And if you want to stop being scared then you must help to save the great country/planet we still have, or the next war might be right here.... Try learning how to spend time with your wife, kids, family, friends. Try learning how to shake hands and get along like good little Canadians. Stop being a looser! Who are you sacred of? Your people in your own country that happens to be the safest in the world (out of how many in the wolrd?). Try living in Brazil you punks! They'd have you for breakfast! I'm not scared I am Canadian. I was given the best life and chances in the world, and I am not about to let some gun goofs reuin it with old school North American beliefs! Guns don't work, people use them! You loosers are too scared to ever give up your guns! If I have to fight I can make weapons or be considered a weapon. I can make quick bombs, I can make traps, I can swell my/our numbers, I know many fighting styles and techniques. I also don't do stupid stuff so it should be raer that people will want to kill me. But, sadly too many Canadians and Americans missed the part when whoever created us (I'm not going there), told us secrets to life. Suckers! Live by the gun, die by the gun! Thanks for not protecting Canadas future , or my favourite country south of us. We may all be doomed to die by the gun we created! Well use anyway........ I had to say it boys and girls, I love you all, but if you point a gun at me , I'll kil'ya (with my bare hands) just to show you how tuff real people are! Watch out! Some young Canadians/Americans really know lifes secrets! A person not affraid to stand up for our country, our planet, and our way of life! Sincerely: Michael B. 24, Canadian, and very hopeful that one day we will have a planet that is one. Not in ten trillion pieces because of of gun lovers day! PS- DJ Perry, thanks, I got your back any time. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 06:30:15 -0600 From: "Bill Rantz" Subject: Toronto Mayor - Lastman's Quote The Toronto Star quoted Mel Lastman (July 16 B4) as stating the following. 1) Mayor Mel Lastman thinks the way to do that is to ban all guns from the city, except for police officers and armed guards. 2) A letter will go out today to Prime Minister Jean Chretien outlining this proposal, he said yesterday. 3) I'd love to see the federal government do something to ban guns. The above are in response to the shooting of a Toronto police officer. The mayor hasn't commented on the fact the officer was alone in his cruiser presumably because Toronto can not afford to place two police personnel in a cruiser. Bill Rantz NFA Ontario President =20 - ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BECFA3.28548840 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The Toronto Star quoted Mel Lastman = (July 16 B4)=20 as stating the following.
    1) Mayor Mel = Lastman thinks=20 the way to do that is to ban all guns from the city, except for police = officers=20 and armed guards.
    2) A letter will = go out today=20 to Prime Minister Jean Chretien outlining  this proposal, he said=20 yesterday.
    3) I'd love to = see the=20 federal government do something to ban guns.
    The above are in = response to=20 the shooting of  a Toronto police officer. 
    The mayor hasn't = commented on=20 the fact the officer was alone in his cruiser presumably because Toronto = can not=20 afford to place two police personnel in a cruiser.
Bill = Rantz
NFA Ontario President
 
- ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BECFA3.28548840-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 06:34:28 -0600 From: Al Dorans Subject: Lies My Government Told Me, Parts I and II CILA / ICAL Defending Canada's Heritage - ---------------------------------------------- Dear Lorne, Congratulations! For your 2 magnificent contributions to the Gun Control Debate, "Lies My Government Told Me, Parts I and II", go to the head of the class! This is what Canada's "first rate" journalists should have been doing all along to protect taxpayers, firearms owners and the Canadian democracy. Now if we can only mobilize Canadians to demand that the auditor general perform an accurate accounting of Bill C-68's total costs to date, this needless, ineffective and wasteful bill will collapse. In appreciation, Professor Al Dorans Director of Operations, Ottawa Office Canadian Institute for Legislative Action / Institut Canadien pour l'Action Legislative National Office: P.O.Box 44030, 600 Grandview St. S. Oshawa, ON.=A0 L1H 8P4 Ph: (905) 571-2150 Fax: (905) 436-7721 e-mail:teebee@sprint.ca Ottawa Office: 27 Cedar Grove Crt. Nepean, ON. K2G 0M4 Ph: (613) 828-8805 Fax: (613) 828-6967e-mail: aldorans@magma.ca Home: <http://www.cila.org A proud member of the World Forum on the Future of Sport Shooting Activities / Forum du Monde sur le Futur d'Activites des Sports des Armes Feu ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 06:36:01 -0600 From: "Brad" Subject: Letters to the Editor A letter submitted to many SW Ont. newspapers today........... Letters to the editor July 16/99 By now firearm owning Canadians are getting used to the avalanche of calls for more "gun control" every time there is a high profile shooting. The wounding of Constable Patrick Ferdinand in Toronto this week has brought about a significant change in the tone of the officials that are charged with keeping our streets safe. This past week there have been publicized statements from Ont. Solicitor General David Tsubouchi, Attorney General Jim Flaherty, Mayor Mel Lastman, and Toronto Police Chief David Boothby whom are all calling for increased sentences for those that use firearms in crime. Canada has just brought in tough new firearms legislation that was touted by the Liberals and the Canadian Coalition For Gun Control as necessary to curb firearms crime, as well as foster a climate of safety. The problem is, that Bill C-68 does very little to deter the criminal use of firearms. The lions share of bill C-68 is devoted to the licensing and registration of law abiding citizens, and the penalties for the use of firearms in crimes were only increased marginally. The increased penalties are offset by the fact that most firearms charges are still plea bargained away nullifying any deterrent effect that might have been realized. I can only hope that those whom support increased sentences for criminals that choose to use firearms while committing crimes will join with the increasing numbers of Canadians that are re-considering their support for the ill-conceived, sinfully expensive gun control legislation that is bill C-68. The time is right for all Canadians to inform themselves of the excellent proposals being put forward by the National Firearms Association in the form of the Practical Firearms Control System. This gun control system would not only increase the penalty for the use of any weapon in the commission of a crime, but would make available the resources that are currently being wasted registering every law abiding citizen's firearms. Brad Beaudoin ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 06:37:07 -0600 From: "Robin Leech" Subject: Re: Hollow point handgun ammunition The legality or illegality of the case is not the issue. Canada Customs will not let hollow point ammo in. THIS is the issue. But bullets are OK. So get bullets and reload. Robin Leech ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 06:40:37 -0600 From: "Neil A. Ball" Subject: IFAW moves to Manitoba The following letter to the editor appeared in Winnipeg's community newspapers on July14/99: Support sought to end bear hunt Spring bear hunting season traditionally results in the orphaning and eventual death of bear cubs in Manitoba. This is a practice that is neither ethical nor humane as nursing mothers are among those shot and their cubs left to die from prolonged starvation. Most bears are hunted over bait sites, primarily by non-resident hunters from the U.S., where 21 of 27 states have banned the hunt. Ontario has recently joined the ranks of those who have abolished this practice. Contact (Premier) Gary Filmon's Legislative office at 945-3714 and voice your objection to this barbaric practice. International Fund for Animal Welfare My response follows: July 16, 1999 Transcontinental Weeklies Letters to the Editor 1465 St. James St. Winnipeg, MB R3H 0W9 Dear Sir or Madam: As a conservationist and hunter I feel I must respond to the emotional allegations and half-truths presented by the International Fund for Animal Welfare (IFAW) in a recent From the Mailbag letter (July 14, 1999) entitled Support sought to end bear hunt. Their claim that the spring bear season "traditionally results in the orphaning and eventual death of bear cubs" is not supported by any scientific or even factual data. The letter is an emotional appeal. Management of natural resources is an important responsibility of the Provincial Government. This must be done to the best advantage of the environment - which includes the people of Manitoba. Annual hunting regulations state clearly that it is illegal to shoot female bears accompanied by cubs. The Department of Natural Resources has never brought a charge in the last 15-20 years. This would argue that the bears are being responsibly managed and sustained. Further evidence for this is based on my personal experience that Conservation Officers are out in full force during this period and visibly managing the situation. The assertion of the IFAW that "this is a practice that is neither ethical nor humane as nursing mothers are among those shot and their cubs left to die from prolonged starvation" is a statement of opinion. It is important to note, and recognized by those of us out on the land doing the hunting, that this practice is already illegal. Ethical and humane hunters do not participate in nor condone the shooting of sows with cubs. As a matter of distinction, those hunters who knowingly and intentionally break any of the hunting regulations immediately remove themselves from the category of "Hunters" and join the much smaller group of "Criminals/Poachers". There are laws and penalties in place to deal with this group. Natural Resources have conducted telephone surveys of hunters and outfitters and found a high level of awareness of these specific game laws. In fact the outfitters themselves are proactive in this regard. Some have introduced further, more strict rules of their own on their guided hunts such as: 1) No hunter is allowed to shoot at a bear for at least 15 minutes after first sighting it, thus allowing ample time to determine whether cubs are present; and 2) Any hunter that does shoot a sow with cubs is reported to Natural Resources and will not be accepted as a client in the future. The Manitoba Wildlife Federation points out that eliminating the spring bear hunt would be counterproductive, resulting in a substantial mortality of bear cubs. Male bears typically kill and even cannabilize cubs at every opportunity during the spring in order to force the females back into estrus for breeding. Eliminating the spring bear hunt would leave roughly 1000 additional boars in circulation EVERY spring. It is important from a Manitoban perspective to support the responsible management of the spring bear hunt providing it can be shown to be a sustainable resource. Emotional appeals like that put forward by the IFAW are politically driven. Their direct participation in the recent Ontario election substantiates this view. It seems their objective is to move from province to province in an attempt to stir up an emotional outcry from urban residents while ignoring the well-established and effective game management strategies currently in place, as a step in the direction of their ultimate objective, the banning of all hunting at any cost. To date Manitoban hunters have shown themselves to be responsible in this regard. I too request that you contact Premier Gary Filmon's office at 945- 3714 and express your support for the spring bear hunt specifically and commend the province on their excellent game management strategies, which hopefully will not be influenced by this or any other non-resident special interest group. Sincerely, Neil Ball ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #76 *********************************