From - Mon Nov 15 11:05:23 1999 Received: from broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (majordomo@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca [198.169.128.1]) by skatter.USask.Ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA09359; Fri, 12 Nov 1999 07:35:07 -0600 (CST) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA23969; Fri, 12 Nov 1999 07:23:42 -0600 Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 07:23:42 -0600 Message-Id: <199911121323.HAA23969@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca> X-Authentication-Warning: broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca: majordomo set sender to owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca using -f From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #200 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Friday, November 12 1999 Volume 03 : Number 200 In this issue: Re: [alert] FED UP III Rally Survey Where to complain about the discriminatory spousal abuse ad now airing across Ontario... RE: Enwright slammed for his actions in firearms debate. FED UP III Rally Survey: Correction Re: [alert] FED UP III Rally Survey traveling with firearms Re: Possession Only Application Question Auctions Re: ANTIQUE FIREARMS -- HANDGUNS Re: 25/32/short barrel amnesty extention Data Sites for use of dangerous chemicals. Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #197 Re: [alert] FED UP III Rally Survey Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #198 Young hunters .25, .32 and under 105mm handgun 'amnisty' family heirloom Stupid SBHG qn ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 07:02:10 -0600 From: "Alex Cunningham" Subject: Re: [alert] FED UP III Rally Survey Excuse the snip > Initial advice suggests a rally date of Saturday, Sept. 23rd, 2000. This > would allow more people and entire families to attend, especially youth. > There would be less time off work. Special weekend airfares would reduce > costs. A millenium rally would precede the federal election and not > conflict with religious holidays. This proposed date is only 2 days before the opening day for waterfowl and small game in Southern Ontario. This could create a possible conflict. I for one would most definitely support any FEDUP initiatives including another march on that cess pit in Ottawa.. Cheers. Alex C. There are 12,000,000. Sheep in Ontario. Problem is 9,000,000 of them think they are people. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 07:02:17 -0600 From: "John Perocchio" Subject: Where to complain about the discriminatory spousal abuse ad now airing across Ontario... Making a Complaint Can they do that on television? Can they say that on radio? Some of the issues covered in the broadcasters' codes are described below. Violence on television Canadian television stations must not show gratuitous violence - = that is, violence unnecessary to the development of the plot, characters = or theme - at any time and may only air programming containing violence = intended for adults after 9 p.m. And we have strict rules regarding = violent content in children's programming.=20 The portrayal of men and women Programs must show men and women in a variety of roles and must not = demean either sex.=20 Fairness and accuracy in the news The news must be reported fairly and accurately, must include only = the relevant details, and must respect the dignity and privacy of the = people involved.=20 Controversial public issues All programs must respect human rights. Controversial public issues = must be treated fairly. The hosts of open-line shows may be provocative = but they must also be fair.=20 Your concerns count If you express a concern about these issues, or any other things you = see on television or hear on the radio, the broadcaster must respond.=20 What can you do about it? Write it down. If you see or hear something that concerns you, write down=20 a.. the date and time of the program=20 b.. the name of the program or the on-air person involved=20 c.. a short summary of what concerned you.=20 Contact the station. You should first contact the broadcaster - you can phone, write, fax = a note or send an e-mail - and tell the station about your concern. The = station will take your concerns seriously. Senior staff, often the = station manager, will respond to your complaint. Most complaints are = settled this way.=20 Write to us. If you are not happy with the broadcaster's response, write to us, = fax us a letter or send us an e-mail message. When you do, tell us what = it was about the television or radio program that concerned you. = Broadcasters must keep tapes of all radio and television programs for a = short time after they air. For this reason, it is important that you let = us know if you have a complaint about a specific program within 3 weeks = of the date it aired. We will investigate your complaint further.=20 What will we do about it? The Council will consider your complaint. We will send your letter and the broadcaster's response to one of = our Regional Councils. These Councils represent your region and are made = up of an equal number of broadcasters and members of the public.=20 The Regional Council will decide whether or not the broadcaster has = respected the codes. The Regional Council members will watch a videotape of the = television show or listen to a tape of the radio broadcast. They will = decide whether or not the broadcaster has met the standards set out in = the codes. We will send you a copy of their decision.=20 We will make the decision public. All of our Council decisions are available to the public and we = announce each of them to the media. If the broadcaster has breached any = of the codes, it must make a public announcement during prime time = television hours or peak radio listening hours. If the Council decides = that the broadcaster has met the standards set out in the codes, it will = explain why it has reached that decision.=20 We are here to hear you. The CBSC's offices are in Ottawa. You can write to us at this = address:=20 Canadian Broadcast Standards Council P.O. Box 3265, Station D Ottawa, Ontario K1P 6H8 You can also call us at (613) 233-4607. Our fax number is (613) 238-1734. You can fill out our Complaint Form or e-mail us at = complaints@cbsc.ca. We will serve you in English or French. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 07:02:21 -0600 From: "Ron Hofman" Subject: RE: Enwright slammed for his actions in firearms debate. Push to see the CBC's CE (Code of Ethics). There are repercussions for failing to comply. A professional, to practice in their chosen profession, has to subscribe to a CE, which has, without fail, procedures in place for non-compliance. Worst case scenario - no longer allowed to practice as a professional in that field. Here's a resource you may find helpful: http://csep.iit.edu/codes/index.html Ron NFA Field Officer ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 07:02:25 -0600 From: Al Dorans Subject: FED UP III Rally Survey: Correction Dear Firearms Owner, Yikes! The date for gun owner registration should read January 1, 2001 and not 2000 as printed. This version has the correct information. Thanks kindly to the folks who drew this to my attention promptly. Sincerely, Al ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 07:02:29 -0600 From: John Gass Subject: Re: [alert] FED UP III Rally Survey Yes I will support the Fed Up II rally financialy and personaly if physicaly able to do so. John Gass ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 07:02:33 -0600 From: "Walter Hornby" Subject: traveling with firearms airlines usually require that all firearms be in a hard case, separate = from ammo. you must declare firearm and bag must be tagged (great way = to alert thieves) that firearm is unloaded. weight restriction of 5 = pounds of ammo. if international travel be prepared to be hassled. = customs does not know the rules. I had one try to tell me Mounties had = filled out my permit wrong. seem upset when I told him to have his boss = contact the CO at K division and explain to him how to fill out the = form. hotels depends on how much you trust them. if I think there might be a = problem I keep gun in room with me and when I go out lock in in trunk of = car. however if I trust hotel security, I usually lock in room, in = closet, making sure gun is lock and usually case. I would not try to = put gun into safe or office unless I knew hotel was gun friendly. =20 Walter Hornby ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 07:02:35 -0600 From: "Robin Leech" Subject: Re: Possession Only Application Go to any post office. If the particular post office does not have one, try another. If you are stuck, contact me. I have a small cache of them. Robin Leech ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 07:02:38 -0600 From: Ron Dotson Subject: Question About a month or two ago, I remember reading a description of an incident that happened a few years ago in an Israeli restaurant in which two armed terrorists entered the restaurant, pulled out their automatic (or semi-automatic) weapons with the intent of massacring everyone in the restaurant. Before they could get off more than one shot however, the armed patrons of the restaurant pulled out their own weapons and shot the gunmen, killing one and critically and wounding the other. Unfortunately, I didn't have the foresight to save the clipping and I can't remember exactly where I read the article. It could have been in the American Rifleman, the CRPA newsletter, the GOA newsletter, or one of the libertarian newsletters that I get (I'm in the USA), but I've gone through all of them that I saved and I can't find the article. I was wondering if perhaps anyone might recall having read the article (or a similar one) and could refer me to the source of the article so that I could get a copy of it. I would like to publish that article on my web page and contrast it to one of the similar incidents that happen here in the U.S.A. so as to illustrate the difference between having an armed populace and an unarmed populace. I could kick myself for not having saved it, and will try to be more careful in the future. What prompted me to think of publishing these contrasting scenarios is that I recently received a membership solicitation from Handgun Control Inc., that contained a questionnaire. I have NO IDEA where HCI got my name, but I was more than happy to fill out their questionnaire, although my answers probably weren't what they were expecting! One of the questions asked "Would you feel safe if the person sitting next to you were carrying a concealed weapon" (or something along those lines). I of course answered "Yes", and that's when I remembered reading the article. Thank you, Ron Dotson ___________________________ Ron S. Dotson rdotson@access1.net http://www.access1.net/rdotson/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 07:02:42 -0600 From: "Ryan Harriman" Subject: Auctions Why father is thinking of starting an auction barn next year or the year after and we were wondering what the regs are for auctioning firearms? Ryan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 07:02:44 -0600 From: "Alan Harper" Subject: Re: ANTIQUE FIREARMS -- HANDGUNS This is a bit of good news. Looks like I have an old copy of the criminal code and maybe C-68. Can anyone supply me with a current copy of each, or a hyperlink so I can acquire them? Bye. Al. For every vision, there is an equal, but opposite, revision. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 07:02:48 -0600 From: "Alan Harper" Subject: Re: 25/32/short barrel amnesty extention > Funny that the government didn't notify the firearms community > about the amnesty extention. Like they didn't want us to know > until it was to late. They wanted to get as many suckers to hand in their guns for destruction as possible, before shedding benevolence on us, in the form of "AMNESTY". ============== AMNESTY - (Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary) the act of an authority (as a government) by which pardon is granted to a large group of individuals which of course leads to: PARDON - 1. a: to absolve from the consequences of a fault or crime b: to allow (an offense) to pass without punishment : FORGIVE c: to relieve of a penalty improperly assessed ============== We bought the guns legally and paid tax on them. We used them legally. I don't recall doing anything wrong with my guns. What is it we're being pardoned for? They are using the word "amnesty" incorrectly. The feds are trying to pin guilt on us, when it is totally inappropriate. If there is guilt to be attached to anyone, it is to the politicians who are stealing our property, and then telling us we should thank them, because it is for our own good. "c" looks interesting. Perhaps the feds are admitting that they have improperly assessed penalties on the gun owners. Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. Bye. Al. Pay attention to what a person accuses you of. He's usually revealing what and who he is. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 07:23:06 -0600 From: Tom MacMillan Subject: Data Sites for use of dangerous chemicals. Hi folks, There has been quite an involved discussion about the toxic effects of various bore cleaners on the "Fullbore List". A couple of very useful URL's came up and I am passing them on to whoever is interested in preserving one's health. Tom MacMillan ======================================================= From: John Clipstone Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 08:44:53 +0200 Subject: [Fullbore] Hydrofluoric Acid [was corrosion by Sweets] The recent discussions on Sweets has prompted a number of replies regarding safety precautions to be taken when using hydrofluoric acid. I use a particular web site for information on any chemicals I might be faced with using. http://hazard.com/ The site searches the material safety data sheets of a large number of manufacturers and suppliers. A search for hydrofluoric acid returned a large number of hits. The first of those was Mallinckrodt Baker Inc. which has a very large data base. The page for HF is: http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/h3994.htm ======================================================= The above opinions are entirely those of the author! Please visit the National Firearms Association web pages at: http://www.nfa.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 07:23:09 -0600 From: "Mike Bonner" Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #197 Re Libby's Unlicenced Firearm (Alex, BC). My understanding is that you can import an unrestricted firearm to Canada from anywhere, go to Customs, declare it, show your licence, pay the duty, and GST, of course, and take it home. Libby would have until 2003 to register it. Right now it does not have to be registered at all. Doesn't matter if she brings it in or gets it mailed in. Mike Bonner ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 07:23:17 -0600 From: Marstar Canada Subject: Re: [alert] FED UP III Rally Survey At 06:47 PM 11/10/99 -0600, you wrote: >FED UP III Rally Survey >Good Morning Al; Of course we would support it, this time our finances are better and we would be prepared to help out as "corporate sponsor" . By the way, I really need those newspaper clippings I loaned you for the NRA project....Can I collect them ?? Did you ever get a copy of the program ?? Best Regards John Moderator's Note: Please send yoour responces directly to Al Dorans. DJP ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 07:23:21 -0600 From: Rick Lowe Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #198 > When a police force defies court rulings, fascism has come fully out of the > closet. The recent refusals by police in Kamloops to abide by court orders to > return property, as well as another case on Vancouver Island where police > have refused to obey a Supreme Court Order to return firearms, does indeed > clearly establish "the line". How many more cases like this are out there? I Perhaps one of the lawyers who follow this list can explain how the police are getting away with this. I don't recall judges as being particularly tolerant of those who decided that they could simply ignore an order from their court. I know that if I were still doing the police thing, it would take a lot of convincing from somebody with considerable authority before I would be the one to say "no" to an order from QB or higher, telling me to release anything held under my authority. I'm missing something here, I guess, but why wouldn't counsel for these guys have pursued these orders further once police refused to comply with what the order directed? Seems to me that being arrested and tossed in jail for contempt would be the next logical step - the court does it fairly often to media types who refuse to comply with an order to turn over some sort of evidence or other. Any explanation that I can understand? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 07:23:26 -0600 From: Rick Lowe Subject: Young hunters Re: "Should a 12-year-old be allowed to hunt under adult supervision? Hunters believe this is usually a safe practice because a youth must complete safety training to obtain a license, and be under adult supervision when carrying a gun. People who oppose the ownership and use of guns in general say 12 is too young an age. What do you think? Let flash! know by sending a letter, fax or e-mail. Perhaps you should also have asked how many of your readers know that youngsters ALREADY hunt under adult supervision in most provinces - and have been doing so for decades. I began hunting in 1964 at the age of six, and served an "apprenticeship" under my father until I could finally hunt by myself at the age of 18. I have never came close to having a hunting accident, and now teach the Federal firearms safety course as well as the provincial hunter training course. While these are good courses, you cannot learn in a week what you can learn in years of supervised activity. My guess is that most of your readers DON'T know that young kids already hunt under supervision - this is nothing new. They probably also don't know that hunting accidents, rare as they are to begin with, almost never involve a supervised youngster as the person responsible for the accident. Personally, I am not aware of a single hunting accident in this province where a minor hunter under supervision was responsible for a hunting accident. Is there a wave of such accidents in your province? Finally, I understand why those opposing firearms ownership would like to see young people prohibited from hunting with their parents. I can think of no better way to increase the possibility that those young people never will develop an interest in hunting once they are older. I can also think of no better way to eliminate hunting and degrade the ethics and skills of hunting by keeping youngsters from hunting until they are adults or nearly so. More accidents and more slob hunters can only help the cause of those who want to see firearms eliminated from our society. Hunting skills, ethics, etiquette, and general bush knowledge is not something you can simply learn by reading a few books when you finally become an adult or nearly so. Hunting and learning from your parents and aunts and uncles is not only a great recreational experience to share with your family, it is the best way I can think of for future hunters to learn proper ethics and safety practices. Waiting until people are nearly adults and then turning them loose just doesn't cut it, no matter how many government educational programs we mandate. BTW, when you release the results of this poll, will you also release hunting accident statistics and compare them to other common recreational activities? Rick Lowe Cranbrook, BC ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 07:23:29 -0600 From: "Byting Mouse Computer Services" Subject: .25, .32 and under 105mm handgun 'amnisty' I believe that the government is very confused on this issue. In one way I would have liked to see the issue come in front of the courts and get this settled. I believe that the government is waiting to see where the Supreme Court will go. If they win I see them applying the laws to the full extent. On the other hand the extra time that has been granted through the amnesty can play in our favor. This category of gun owners will have been in legal limbo for now close 6 years. I front of a judge this should help. The guns will have been legally owned and registered for 6 years and now the government wants them without compensation!!! Also of interest is that if you call the CFC they will tell you that they have not heard of this amnesty, they want to keep the people confused until the end. Joseph Robichaud ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 07:23:33 -0600 From: TLow Subject: family heirloom This is a question for Dave Tomlinson or any NFA member who can help in answering. A good friend has an original 1851 "Philadelphia First Model" handgun in .36 calibre, 6 shots, 102 mm barrel. It had NEVER been registered. He did try recently to register it but was told by letter that he must dispose of it in the usual manner (ie, deactivating it, changing the barrel length, or turn it in for disposal, etc.) They are refusing to register it now. This person IS a grandfathered individual for .25 or .32 cal. handguns/ handguns with 105 mm or less as he had other such guns before Feb. 14, 1995. What can he do now to retain this particular antique gun? It has been in his family for generations. Tom ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 07:23:38 -0600 From: "Ryan Harriman" Subject: Stupid SBHG qn OK, this might seem stupid but here it goes. If a pistol with a barrel length of less then 105mm is prohibited then what happens to a pistol with no barrel...answer...if larger than 32 cal then nothing right? Here's my question...can I have a pocket pistol with no barrel? You've all seen them, they look like revolvers with out the barrel. I can scan a picture and send it out if you want. I'm just doing an essay on early ammunition developements and came across one and it sparked that question. After all the cylinder isn't part of the barrel. Also what if I had a revolver with a long cylinder and say a 38 short and wimpy bullet? Now is this not intersting or is there just to much carbon monoxide in my house? Ryan ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #200 **********************************