Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 07:17:28 -0600 Message-Id: <199911191317.HAA00673@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca> X-Authentication-Warning: broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca: majordomo set sender to owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca using -f From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #206 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Friday, November 19 1999 Volume 03 : Number 206 In this issue: General Question Un_vieux_routier_de_la_force__contre__la_politisation_de_la_grc Carry Permits & Clubs Book alert Justice Minister's poor judgment Re: "customs silence" and other nonsense.... New CGG tactics Re: Handgun purchase linked to higher suicide risk Michael Enright & the CBC Ombudsman Personal Information Request Package Daily News Article Re: Possession Only Hypocrisy ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 07:38:06 -0600 From: Simpson (by way of Dave Tomlinson ) Subject: General Question PLEASE REPLY DIRECTLY TO EMAIL ADDRESS BELOW: As an American Shooter, I am looking for a copy of an excellent book titled "Canadian Bisley Shooting" which is sadly out of print. Can your membership render me some assistance? Thank you John C. Simpson jsimpso1@bellsouth.net Kennesaw, GA USA ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 07:38:11 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Un_vieux_routier_de_la_force__contre__la_politisation_de_la_grc communique le 16 novembre 1999 Pour publication immediate un vieux routier de la force s'eleve contre < la politisation de la grc > < La GRC a change enormement et ce n'est malheureusement pas pour le mieux. > Ottawa - Garry Breitkreuz, depute de Yorkton-Melville, a rendu public aujourd'hui un rapport de 45 pages de Robert H.D. Head, sous-commissaire a la retraite de la GRC, intitule < the politicization of the rcmp >. Fort de ses 38 annees d'experience dans la GRC, Head note une deterioration generale des services de police rendus au peuple canadien ainsi que de l'image de marque de la GRC. < J'ai decide d'ecrire ce texte a l'instigation de l'American Society of Criminologists (qui se reunit cette semaine a Toronto) et a cause des nombreuses plaintes que je recois de Canadiens ordinaires, de veterans de la GRC et d'agents en activite >, declare Head. < La GRC a change enormement au cours des 25 dernieres annees et ce n'est malheureusement pas pour le mieux. Aujourd'hui, elle est beaucoup trop politisee pour le bien du Canada. Ce sont la mes propres opinions et observations, mais j'espere que mon texte va stimuler le debat au Parlement, dans les medias, a la GRC et dans le grand public. > En plus de ses annees de service dans la GRC, Head est membre a vie de l'Association canadienne des chefs de police. Son rapport offre le point de vue d'un initie sur un certain nombre de questions importantes comme le lien hierarchique entre le commissaire de la GRC et le gouvernement, les problemes budgetaires, le paiement des heures supplementaires, les affectations a l'etranger, les relations de travail, les conges de maladie et de stress, les perquisitions des bureaux de deputes, le bilinguisme, l'influence politique, la legislation sur le controle des armes a feu et l'impact des decisions de la Cour supreme. Head formule a la fin de son rapport vingt recommandations sur les moyens de remedier a bon nombre des problemes qu'il releve. Voici trois des plus controversees : (1) que le commissaire de la GRC releve directement du Parlement un peu comme le verificateur general du Canada; (2) que les candidats au poste de commissaire soient examines par un comite parlementaire compose de deputes de tous les partis; (3) que soit creee une agence chargee des fonctions actuellement exercees par la Direction des missions de protection de la GRC. < C'est un rapport extraordinaire qui devrait faire l'objet d'un debat a la Chambre des communes et d'un examen approfondi au Comite permanent de la justice >, declare Breitkreuz. < Au cours des prochaines semaines, je travaillerai avec mes collegues de la Chambre en vue de faire deposer et debattre une motion en ce sens. > - -30- Pour obtenir des copies du texte de Bob, voici les coordonnees : Yorkton : (306) 782-3309 Ottawa : (613) 992-4394 Courriel : breitg0@parl.gc.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 07:16:55 -0600 From: Steve Grover Subject: Carry Permits & Clubs RE: Filling out your ATT - I just did mine the other day and for time and days I put 00:00:01 to 24:00 and any day. This is based on the fact my club is open 24/7 and we have an indoor range. Also, I was told the other day that the new range guidelines were being put off for a year and all clubs were being granted a range permit without having to be inspected. That is here in Nova Scotia and I was told this by our area assistant CFO. So, for now we are still shooting. Steve ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 07:16:58 -0600 From: Rod Regier Subject: Book alert I've seen this in my local Smith Books outlet: December 6th : From the Montreal Massacre to Gun Control - The Inside Story by Heidi Rathjen, Charles Montpetit Hardcover (October 1999) McClelland & Stewart; ISBN: 0771061250 ; Dimensions (in inches): 0.93x 8.82 x 5.79 n.b. Heidi has ties to the CfGC. Hey Mike Toma, want to review it for us? - -- Rod Regier, Software Development bus: (902)422-1973 x108 Dymaxion Research Ltd., 5515 Cogswell St., fax: (902)421-1267 Halifax, Nova Scotia, B3J 1R2 Canada mailto: RRegier@dymaxion.ca corporate url: http://www.dymaxion.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 07:16:51 -0600 From: rmcreat@istar.ca (Michelle Traver) Subject: Justice Minister's poor judgment The news announcement this morning indicated the Police are interested in a machine which functions to determine whether a firearm was used in a particular crime or not. Apparently the Police can't afford this machine. The price? $750,000.00 Canadian funds. The reports coming in about the Firearms Act costs, in reality, will be $700 million. This "Act", according to the Justice Minister, is to prevent crime, save lives. This "Act" has yet to show that it has "saved a life". In fact, the province of Ontario has indicated a drastic rise in small handgun possession offenses by its youth, ages 14 to 17. These are easily obtained from the black market and/or smuggling. This comes as no surprise to anyone in the firearms community. The truth is that the Responsible Firearms Community have been warning the Justice Ministers, present and past, that there are better ways of preventing crime then penalizing the lawful firearms owners. We have asked, no pleaded, to have penalty laws already in place put to use instead of whittled away unto impotence. Why has the Justice Minister chosen to waste our money instead of putting it to obvious preventative use? She could have purchased nearly ten of these machines for our Police Forces in this country. Whether one would agree or disagree on the technical merits of this machine, I am sure the Canadian taxpayer would agree this purchase would have been a more productive measure then Chapter 39 of the Firearms Act has been to date. Privacy is a sacred thing, Michelle Traver (owner) SSAC NCBCS Pres. & Spokesperson HACS member, PPLC Assoc. http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/9460/index.html 604-253-3311 fax 604-255-2202 1708 E. 1st Ave. Vancouver, BC V5N 1B1 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 07:17:04 -0600 From: "Peter Kearns" Subject: Re: "customs silence" and other nonsense.... J. Stevens wrote; > > I'm not the person who wrote the original. But I kinda recollect, in my > aging memory, that the D memoranda have been around for a whole lot longer > than the national firarms manual. I kinda think they may have been customs > memoranda that were quoted in the nfm. Gawd why do we have to attack > ourselves all the time. We say so many good things then in one swift line > we make wendy's day. > > Yah. now I get bitten. Peter Kearns wrote: Mr. Stevens is correct. The "D" memoranda have been around for a long time, and the "D" is a prefix used by many federal departments. In the early eighties the RCMP assembled them (FIREARMS RELATED ONES) into the National Firearms manual at the request of the Justice Minister. The NFM was then used by ALL federal enforcement agencies. It generally constitutes someone's opinions, and none of the NFM, (except for the lists of prohibited and restricted firearms has any legal authority whatsoever.) As DAT says "anyone can have opinions but only a judge in a court of law may definitively rule as to the legality of anything." Customs officers regularly unlawfully use the memoranda as instruments to authorize them to detain and seize goods. (The correspondent wrongfully described them as regulations, and would have perpetuated the myth that they were somehow laws.) Why are you worried about that part? You state the memoranda MAY have formerly been customs documents, but don't address the important part of my comment which was that these are "opinions" NOT "regulations." Mr. Stevens I don't "bite" anyone, unless the information they disseminate is based on their ignorance or their admitted unresearched personal opinions. If you remember, the original correspondent said he FELT I had a personal grudge against customs, and inferred this distorted my judgement. (I have a high regard for the agency, but that doesn't stop me recounting some very bad experiences with incompetent and (apparently) criminal elements they employ, OR studying the Act they work under.) He did criticise my statements (based on actual laws and regulations,) while (apparently) inventing a few of his own, admitted his lack of knowledge, and then advanced an OPINION. That is dangerous and foolish, and that certainly makes Wendy's day!" My question to you is would you rather follow properly researched information, or accept someone criticising it and promoting his own imaginary laws? regards, Peter Kearns Simon says: Maybe we should stop wasting our time doing legal research and reporting, and let everybody sink or swim by themselves. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 07:17:08 -0600 From: "Ken Kellar" Subject: New CGG tactics I recently heard a rather disturbing rumour. I can't attest to its validity but it bears repeating in case it is accurate. In an email forwarded from a member of a gun club for one of the large high tech companies it was stated that individulas in the CGG have been perusing publications like the digest looking for email from corporate accounts. It was reported that they then would complain to the company about company accounts being used for personal correspondence. It this is accurate, and at this point I have no evidence to substantiate this rumour, its would show that the CGG is getting disparate. I would suggest that digest might want to consider removing this information from submissions to prevent this sort of harassment of its contributors. For users emailing from corporate accounts you might want to visit the following site www.hotmail.com. Again this is only a rumour and I have no supporting evidence at this point to prove or disprove its validity ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 07:17:12 -0600 From: "Jean-Francois Avon" Subject: Re: Handgun purchase linked to higher suicide risk On Thu, 18 Nov 1999 08:48:38 -0500, Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1 wrote: > >PUBLICATION: Calgary Herald >DATE: 1999.11.18 >EDITION: FINAL >SECTION: News >PAGE: A6 >BYLINE: Bloomberg >DATELINE: BOSTON > >Handgun purchase linked to higher suicide risk > >People who buy handguns have a substantially higher suicide risk than the >general population and the effect is most dramatic among women, a new study >shows. >Within a year of buying a gun, the No. 1 cause of death among the gun buyers >was suicide. Just one week after legally obtaining a handgun, the rate of >suicide with a gun was 57 times that of the general population. >Of women ages 21 to 44 who died within a year of buying a gun, more than >half committed suicide, according to researchers from the Violence >Prevention Research Program at the University of California. >``The near absence of suicides by firearm during the waiting period and the >marked increase in the first month after the end of the waiting period >suggest that some purchasers owned no other firearms and bought handguns >with the intention of killing themselves,'' the researchers said. Greetings Mr. Hon. Breitkreuz, MP. Let me comment on the above text: theses statistics might be accurate, the causal factor is far from being established and not discussed in the article. If a depressed or desperate person buys a gun to allow themselves to commit suicide, it is clear that they do not intend to commit it right away for they are aware of the waiting period regulation. Once the person ordered the gun, it is likely that any suicidal act will be postponed for since firearms are perceived as a painless way to do so, the wannabe-suicidee will wait. Furthermore, it is also demonstrated that a certain percentage of suicides are not commited at the moment that the decision was taken but at some later time. These people usually get into a very serene mood prior to commit suicide, for they are comforted by the thought that their problems are over. My hypothesis, which is unfortunately not mentioned in the article and which absence brings the text out of the realm of science and into the realm of sensationalism, is that the people who commited suicide within a year of acquiring a handgun were already deeply depressed and did the purchase "just in case" they would one day decide to do it. Therefore it is not clear at all, as substantiated by the well verified fact that no prohibition on any tool of suicide ever successfull modified the suicide rate, that theses women would not have choosen to commit suicide anyway, but with a different mean, if they wouldn't have been able to gain access to a gun. Also: women, and especially nice looking ones, are, I think, less likely to kill themselves with a gun as an impulse gesture because they naturally hesitate of making a mess of themselves. Thus, the firearm suicide of women are probably well pre-meditated acts. Another element missing from this article: absolute numbers. Without absolute numbers, we cannot verify if the numbers are of any significance compared to the other causes of death or ways of commiting suicide. Finally, the "intention of killing oneselve" is nobody's business but oneselve's. Maybe that is what uncounsciously outrage our politicians: that a member of their cattle herd can commit such an egoistic (a virtue) action. Regards! Jean-Francois Avon, toiling slave of Pierrefonds- Dollard riding, Qc, Kollektive Komradship of Kanada. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 07:17:15 -0600 From: "Gord Gallant" Subject: Michael Enright & the CBC Ombudsman On Tuesday Nov 16, CBC's As it Happens broadcasted an interview with the Ombudsman For those that missed it, there is a RealAudio archive of the broadcast that is available at http://www.radio.cbc.ca/programs/asithappens/real/pt2-99-11-16-aih2.ram The 14 minute interview cues up first. Gordon Gallant Land Use / Firearms Specialist Ontario Federation of Anglers & Hunters ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 07:17:20 -0600 From: Peter Cronhelm Subject: Personal Information Request Package Well, they say if you want something done you have to do it yourself. I was putting off sending in any Access to Personal Information Requests to the government because I didn't know where to send them. I asked a couple of times for someone to post this info to the digest but it was not completely forthcoming so I finally got around to collecting the info myself. I have a zipped package of three files which will give you everything you need to bury the feds with Access to Personal Info requests. The package includes the form, instructions on how to use it and a list of addresses and fax numbers for where to send the completed forms. The zipped file is only 36K so what do you have to lose. E.mail me direct and I will be happy to send the stuff out to all who ask. Now you have no excuses not to send in these requests. Peter Cronhelm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 07:17:23 -0600 From: m_adams@ns.sympatico.ca (Michael Adams) Subject: Daily News Article Paper: Truro Daily News, Truro NS Date: 18 November 1999 Page 1&2 Weapons owners kept in dark Local man claims gun amnesty has been extended to 2000 By John Christianson NEWS Writer Truro - A local target shooter is worried other lawful gun owners will be duped by the federal government into turning in their weapons without compensation earlier than they have to. Mike, who doesn't want his last name used because it might make him a target for thieves, says the federal government hasn't told gun owners they don;t have to turn in their small calibre, short barrel pistols because of an extension in the amnesty period for the prohibited weapons. The official government publication for regulation changes, the Canada Gazette, reported in their Oct 30 edition that the amnesty period for the small hand guns had been extended until 2001. If it wasn't for an on-line magazine, the Canadian Firearms Digest, a fellow target shooter would have turned in his gun after one last stop at the firing range, said Mike. "A friend of mine called me up and said he wanted to go out to the range before turning his gun in," he continued. "That's when I said, "whoa, wait a minute, they extended the deadline." Mike owns two pistols, one of which is identified as a restricted weapon under Bill C-68. But provincial challenges to the constitutional validity of the bill have forced the federal government to delay the ban of the weapons. Bill C-68 has a provision to seize or require the surrender of certain prohibited weapons after a Nov. 30, 1999 deadline. The deadline was extended until Jan 1 2000, however Mike said the government is keeping the news quiet. That doesn't suprise Colchester-Musquodoboit MLA Brooke Taylor who has been a strong critic of registering long barrel guns such as hunting rifles. "The feds all the way through haven't been very up front with this," said Taylor. "They aren't providing information freely and you have to go through Access to Information." (See DON'T pg. 2) Don't be fooled, shooter warns (Continued from page 1) Taylor says the whole gun registration bureacracy has spiraled out of control and costs far more than expected. Taylor said the registry cost Canadian taxpayers more than $130 million before a single hand gun was registered when it originally was costed at $85 million. He said the civil servants have ballooned from the original 200 jobs to more than 800 in two separate registries. Taylor said the government doesn't want to publicize the problems at the registry and if a small group of firearms owners complains their voices won't be heard. Bill Casey Cumberland-Colchester MP and Progressive Conservative transportation critic said Gazette October 30 edition fufills the governments responsibility for making the information public. 'Printing it in the Gazette meets the official obligation to publish the change (in the regulations," said Casey, "but not many people read the Gazette." Casey said the federal Tories oppose the registration of long barrel firearms such as hunting rifles because "we don't think it would do anything to save lives but it will cost a lot of taxpayers money." The Canadian Firearms Centre claims responsibility for delivering information about the Firearms Act to the Canadian public, but in their most recent missive regarding fee hikes there is no mention of the amnesty extension. Instead they note that possession only licenses will increase from $10 to $45 and a bulk fee for registering weapons increases from $10 to $14 on Dec. 1, 1999. A spokesperson for the CFC said the extension of the amnesty for prohibited weapons is only rumour at this time. "It's not official yet. Maybe they (Canada Gazette) know information we don't." The Hamm government is one of several provincial and territorial governments who have been granted intervener status in the Supreme Court hearing which was slated for Dec. 16, 1999. The hearing date has been delayed until sometime next year. In the mean time, Mike says take time to do some research to find out your rights before surrenderinghand guns to local police authorities. "Don't turn them in until this thing has ended," said Mike. (30) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 07:17:26 -0600 From: "T. Bryant" Subject: Re: Possession Only Hypocrisy Is it me or has anybody else caught the hypocrisy in the Possession Only License? Anne and the Gun Gouls continuously bleat about the Culture of Safety to help sell their particular form of prejudice. If safety were so important why are we allowed to obtain a Possession Only License without passing a safety course? So all the guns that are presently owned are safe but any new gun purchased after a magic date is dangerous enough that their owners must be trained in their safe use? Lets face it the Possession Only license is a thinly disguised attempt to jolly gun owners into the system. Once registered as a gun owner you will be subject to whatever "new" regulations the government decides. If after a few years the government decides that ALL gun owners must take an expensive safety course at the gun owners expense too bad. How about increased license and registration costs or police inspections? As a licensed gun owner you will be forced to comply as the government now holds your guns ransom. You will be just another sheep to the slaughter regardless of how easy they let you into the slaughter house. ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #206 **********************************