Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 19:29:09 -0600 Message-Id: <199911230129.TAA23095@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca> X-Authentication-Warning: broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca: majordomo set sender to owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca using -f From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #208 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Monday, November 22 1999 Volume 03 : Number 208 In this issue: Re: [chat] RFC Advertising and VOTER attention Re: ammunation Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #205 Gun Pics Lieberals lose focus Re: Kustoms Act Re: Convictions info... Re: CONGRATS!!!! Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #204 Opinions Another reminder for civic elections Thank you... Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 # Nov.13 skit on NRA HQ shooting Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #204 LAW AND JUDGES Excellent article on UK Gun Laws Regarding ATT's CBC Commerical - MADD FWD: Useful info... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 08:00:11 -0600 From: "Jim Hinter" Subject: Re: [chat] RFC Advertising and VOTER attention The federal government is looking to restrict third party spending during ELECTION CAMPAIGNS. That is because their in-depth research tells them that the 37 days of an election are the time when most people actually pay attention to the political process -- and have a chance to actually affect a change. Further, it is E-7 where the greatest impact can be made. While we can certainly spend great amounts of money pushing a message-- any professional advertiser -- spends their dollars at a time when they will have the greatest impact. You don't see 1/12th of a Christmas advertising budget being spent in March. Rest assured that the NFA is working very hard on our planning for advertising. Also rest assured that we do not plan to spend any funds which our Members donate foolishly -- we respect our Members too much to do "willy-nilly" campaigns, or any other activity to make us "feel good". This fight is that important. That is the reason that the National Firearms Association was present in Ottawa on Monday to make a presentation to the House of Commons committee on Bill C-2. That is the reason the National Firearms Association continues to grow, and to build coalitions with other groups who are interested in seeing a return to real democracy in Canada. Personally, I think we are on the right track. Thoughts. Jim Hinter Co-ordinator National Firearms Association jhinter@nfa.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 07:59:58 -0600 From: rmcreat@istar.ca (Michelle Traver) Subject: Re: ammunation >Carl. I could be wrong but so far I have seen nothing that would suggest >one must have his registration certificate with him to buy ammunition. >the proposal regulation is that as of Jan 1 2002 ( I think I don't have >my notes handy) you will need a firearms license to purchase >ammunition. > >now whither the magnetic strip on the back will will have information on >what firearms you own or if the computer will have to check with the >master one to see you own a registered firearm in that caliber is open >to discussion. perhaps, if you don't it will mean a visit from the guns >cops. who knows?? >(snip) >Walter Hornby Slight correction Walter; on January 1, 2001 we will require a licence to purchase ammunition. The government (as usual) will work out the technical details as they go along. Privacy is a sacred thing, Michelle Traver (owner) SSAC NCBCS Pres. & Spokesperson HACS member, PPLC Assoc. http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/9460/index.html 604-253-3311 fax 604-255-2202 1708 E. 1st Ave. Vancouver, BC V5N 1B1 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 08:00:31 -0600 From: "Ryan Harriman" Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #205 Now this is closer to the point I wanted to make but didn't. If they measure the cylinder in one of these and call it a barrel then would that set a precident for cylinders beening included in barrel length? It's just a thought. Ryan You are apparently talking about "pepperbox" revolvers. The government's thoughts on this problem are unknown, but a judge would probably measure the "barrel" in the same way the barrel of a semi-auto pistol is measured. David A Tomlinson National President, National Firearms Association Ph: (780)439-1394 Fax: (780)439-4091 natpres@nfa.ca Box 1779, EDMONTON AB, T5J 2P1 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 08:00:05 -0600 From: Peter Cronhelm Subject: Gun Pics Try: http://www.securityarms.com Loads of good pics of tons of different types of guns. Peter Cronhelm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 08:00:41 -0600 From: Jim Davies Subject: Lieberals lose focus On Wed, 17 Nov 1999, Cdn-Firearms Digest wrote: > that I would be called if this was a problem. With only one days notice > I was informed that I would not be allowed to attend because of my > association with the NFA. Apparently the government feels that my > opinion cannot be properly twisted ... Funny how the LibCons lose "focus" whenever D.T. and the NFA are mentioned. Imagine what we could do if we had the sureptitious lieberal funding that mysterious Wendy gets. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 08:00:22 -0600 From: ":-)" Subject: Re: Kustoms Act Peter: You (and others) may or may not know that Revenue Canada is now called "Canada Customs and Revenue Agency". I *wonder* if this move was specifically designed to get around some of those current rules and regulations they have about "whom they can and cannot release information to"??? Linda ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 07:59:54 -0600 From: rmcreat@istar.ca (Michelle Traver) Subject: Re: Convictions info... >List Readers, >I am again appealing to this list for information that might lead me to a >source of info. on convictions. It comes as a suprise to me that no one >that reads this list knows how to get this kind of info. The newspapers >must have a source for information on charges and convictions unless they >have someone in every courthouse in every town in Canada. > >Is anyone doing a study on the connection between firearms crimes, >convictions / plea bargians / and sentances? If not, why not? This kind of >information would be very damaging to the gun grabbers platform and we need >every advantage we can muster. > >Best Regards, >Brad Brad, >From the investigations I've done so far, it would seem that the information within the police departments across the country, that would provide your statistics when correlated, are not wanted by the government. I have been told the police are "not invited within the judicial system" to do this correlation. I have been told that if I could come up with these figures, there are those within the bureaucracy that could certainly use it. I have no doubt of this. Therefor we start from scratch - I may have a way to do this. Keep in touch privately by e-mail. Privacy is a sacred thing, Michelle Traver (owner) SSAC NCBCS Pres. & Spokesperson HACS member, PPLC Assoc. http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/9460/index.html 604-253-3311 fax 604-255-2202 1708 E. 1st Ave. Vancouver, BC V5N 1B1 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 08:00:15 -0600 From: CILA / ICAL Subject: Re: CONGRATS!!!! Linda, Thanks for the kind words. Our friends in the NRA contacted CILA last year with the intention of making the Canadian Firearms Video Infommercial similar in concept to the one done for Australia. They sent Ginny Simone, Media EA to Wayne LaPierre into Canada to liaise with us, conduct the interviews and produce the film. As you can see, Ginny did a marvelous job on the tape and it is in huge demand across the world. In fact, NRA has been constantly back ordered but we expect CILA will have copies available shortly. A lot of the film footage taken but not used in this film will be used in another coming NRA film on International Gun Control (possibly by late January). This footage features such people as Garry Breitkruez, Larry Whitmore, Larry Cowlishaw and our own Al Dorans, to name a few. In the meantime, the film can be enjoyed every Saturday and Sunday morning at 7:30 am on TNN. Sincerely, Tony Bernardo Executive Director CILA - ----------------------------- At 07:56 AM 11/15/99 -0600, you wrote: >Congrats to Tom Zinck, John St. Amour, Murray Grismer, John Perocchio, >Linda Thom, Medha Russell, Edward Burlew, Mike Cooper, Wolfgang Pollman, >John Bardoscia, and others! It is "so nice to finally see the problem with >C-68 advertised on television"! Now this is the kind of thing we need to >see more on our local tv stations. Why did it take the NRA to take this to >the tv for us? > >You guys (and gals) really did a fantastic job in the ad and did our sport >proud! > >Linda (Kali) > >My apologies, I missed the beginning of the tv show, but I believe Tony >Bernardo was also in the show. Congrats to him also! > >Linda (Kali) > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 08:00:34 -0600 From: "P & M Ryan" Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #204 Hi, For what it is worth here is what I did. When I filled my ATT form out I put the times from 00:01 hours to 23:59 hours. As for the days I put down Monday to Sunday. The CFO's office OKed it. The result is that I can shoot at the range any time I want. I hope this helps Regards, Mike R. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 08:00:08 -0600 From: Kelly Weiss Subject: Opinions Just a short, quick note to all readers - and contributors - of/to the Digest: I appreciate reading all persons opinions, ideas and suggestions. It is because of this information exchange, whether the opinion or idea may be right or wrong, that everyone learns; and, everyone benefits. It is not a crime to be proven wrong; it is only a shame to continue believing something that may be incorrect. ALL OPINIONS ARE VALUED. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 08:00:02 -0600 From: rmcreat@istar.ca (Michelle Traver) Subject: Another reminder for civic elections Another reminder about the municipal elections in BC. Here in the Lower Mainland, Coquitlam is particularly important. The incumbent council has members that have attacked the Historical Arms Collector's Society annual April shows held in Coquitlam. They have attempted to make it impossible for the show to carry on in Coquitlam. They have not succeeded yet. It is important to keep it that way. For those who live in that area, please be sure to get your vote in. Encourage others to do so. For those BC'ers who know someone living in Coquitlam, please impress on them the importance of their vote in this election. If there are any questions on this matter, please don't hesitate to contact me. Privacy is a sacred thing, Michelle Traver (owner) SSAC NCBCS Pres. & Spokesperson HACS member, PPLC Assoc. http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/9460/index.html 604-253-3311 fax 604-255-2202 1708 E. 1st Ave. Vancouver, BC V5N 1B1 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 08:00:25 -0600 From: "John Perocchio" Subject: Thank you... Dear Minister, I have just read the article by Robert Fife in the November 12th edition of the National Post entitled "Ontario minister fumes over gun registry costs: Spend on prevention" (see below). I just wanted to say how pleased I was to see one of my elected representatives publicly chastising the Federal Liberal government for their failed gun registry abomination. Hopefully you will start a trend across this nation eventually culminating in the upcoming court challenge declaring this whole mess unconstitutional. My sincere thanks to you & the Harris government for keeping their word on this issue. John Perocchio >PUBLICATION: National Post >DATE: 1999.11.12 >EDITION: National >SECTION: News >PAGE: A6 >BYLINE: Robert Fire, Ottawa Bureau Chief >SOURCE: National Post >DATELINE: OTTAWA >Government spending; Laws and regulations; Ontario >HEADLINE: Ontario minister fumes over gun registry costs: Spend on >prevention ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 08:00:18 -0600 From: joanne eisen <102062.2510@compuserve.com> Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 # Keep somewhere: >The RCMP Annual Report >The 1998 RCMP Annual Report is now available. You can view and >download a copy off the Canadian Firearms Registry Web site at >www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/html/cfr.htm . NFA: Much of the useful information found in earlier editions is no longer published in this Annual Report, making it considerably less valuable for researchers. David A Tomlinson National President, National Firearms Association Ph: (780)439-1394 Fax: (780)439-4091 natpres@nfa.ca Box 1779, EDMONTON AB, T5J 2P1 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 08:00:38 -0600 From: "Barry Glasgow" Subject: Nov.13 skit on NRA HQ shooting The NRA skit of Nov. 13th is a shameful attack on good people, a gratuitous slap in the face to the families of the victims of gun violence and a disgusting exploitation of these tragedies. The National Rifle Association has millions of members representing a very wide cross-section of society - doctors, lawyers, engineers ... even entertainers. Yet news media and the entertainment industry have no qualms about painting this group (and by association, all those in it) in an unsavoury light, often portraying them as mindless criminals. Were this any other group, the public outcry would be deafening. I firmly believe that the only reason that this flies in today's politically correct world is because slamming legal firearm ownership as the root cause of criminal violence has become the politically correct thing to do. Hardly innovative on SNL's part, wouldn't you think ? It is obvious that, like Rosie O'Donnell and her bigotted isolation and contempt of NRA guests, SNL has cozied up to popular misguided opinion. It has deteriorated into a forum for political messages put out under the pretext of comedy. It is ironic that those responsible for such crimes are seldom the target of the contempt and character assasinations they deserve and we endure. Also ironic is what people will tolerate in terms of making light of tragic criminal acts. I'm sure that if SNL did a skit on the Air Egypt suicide crash viewers would be outraged. But I'm sure that SNL wouldn't do this because, unlike the SNL of years ago, it has slipped away from the political incorrectness that used to set it apart from other media. Barry Glasgow Woodlaw, Ontario (member of the Canadian National Firearms Assn.) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 08:00:28 -0600 From: Jon@Huv.com (Jon Hylands) Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #204 On Wed, 17 Nov 1999 07:30:40 -0600, you wrote: > I want the most flexibility I can get > because I have a demanding personal schedule and I often work long hours. > What can I do? Has anyone else had this probelm? What did you do? Is their a > best choice that your CFO will approved. I put down daily -- I never know when I am going to the range until I decide I feel like shooting. Working at home gives me that flexibility. The CFO had no problem with it. Later, Jon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 19:28:54 -0600 From: ":-)" Subject: LAW AND JUDGES This is well worth a read. I am including the index here. (LJ) http://www.courts.gov.bc.ca/LegalCompendium/index.html A COMPENDIUM OF LAW AND JUDGES Moderator's Note: I snipped the index. DJP ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 19:29:01 -0600 From: "Tom Zinck" Subject: Excellent article on UK Gun Laws http://www.2ndlawlib.org/journals/okslip.html - -Tom Reform, OHA, NFA, ARRA, JPFO, NRA, GOA http://www.comnet.ca/~tzinck Frustrate a Liberal : Lease a gun today ! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 19:28:55 -0600 From: "buddy brown" Subject: Regarding ATT's Hello To All: As I've posted this a few times on the chat but people keep asking me for it I thought I would put it on the digest. As I understand not everyone is on chat. When I bought a house I realized I would have to change my Permit To Carry/Deemed ATT to apply to my new address .It took alot of personal effort to get them to enter my new address as they still had my handguns registered at an address I hadn't lived at for nine months despite paperwork to the contrary(the Epitome of Effiency) Anyways they told me that they were only issuing them for 300km from my address.I politely but firmly told them that this was unacceptable as my Permit to Carry/ATT was currently good for any approved range in Alberta so I required the same FREEDOM now.I continued by saying that I'm a IPSC shooter and there are matches all over Alberta.They said no problem as all I had to do was contact them with the Range and location and they would give me permission to go.As my job forces me to make plans on the spur of the moment I ask could I get one at 11:00 pm on a Friday night they said no.I then reiterated POLITELY but FIRMLY that I would then need a province wide one in order to enjoy my sport as my understanding was that the new law was not supposed to hinder sportshooting. I must stress that they were polite but would clearly have rathered I accept this 300km restriction but in the end I got what I wanted and it only took 15 minutes on the phone at gov't expense.It did take a week by snail mail to get it however the faxed me one immediately. It's interesting to note that when I asked if this was in the act or regulations they said it was a small restriction for transporting a restricted weapon.To date I haven't found it,maye I not looking hard enough? I strongly suggest that if it works for me it should work for anyone,and in MY opinion no one should settle for less. I'm not sure if it was because mine was a change of address or not but I filled out no application and besides the location of my home club+proof of membership i gave no locations and did it all over the phone. Maybe I'm paranoid but mayhaps they just want to see how far we can be pushed,and if this is true in MY opinion we should state CLEARLY "NOT A INCH". Because of computer problems I lost a lot of mail so hopefully this will answer the requests for my experience and help out others Regards Buddy Brown NFA+REFORM because anything less is unacceptable ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 19:28:59 -0600 From: "Robert E. Pretty" Subject: CBC Commerical - MADD I also sent this letter to MADD. - ---------------------------- This is a copy of a message I submitted to the CBC tonight. I have also = submitted to the NFA. I acknowledge your wish to stop drunken drivers but that is no reason to = attack us. Before you get on a high horse be advised I know what you are = about. My mother was killed by a drunken driver when I was 13 but I = don't attack others to justify my own circumstance. I also feel that your organisation owes us an appology and demand this = commercial be revoked ASAP. About 5 minutes ago (November 22, 1999 @ 17:30) I noted a commercial on = your station from M.A.D.D.=20 It shows two men and two women some wine at a bar. One of the men get up = to leave where apon the second man says are you alright to drive? The = other says yeah it was only a little wine. (paraphrased) This immediatly shows him with a crazed look and absolute hatred on his = face. His car keys turn into a semi-automatic pistol and he begins = aiming around the restaurant. The remainder of the commercial shows = people falling to the floor, hiding under tables, and screaming in fear. = The scene flashes from the man to the restaurant a couple of time. It = ends with the pistol being tossed into the air and turning into a set of = keys. So now we as firearm owners are being associated with drunken drivers. This commercial is paramount to saying all blacks are drug dealing = hoodlum, all followers of the Jewish faith are a bunch of money mongers = or any other racial and/or ethnic stereotype. I would expect an = organisation such as yours would screen your programming better. It is = an absolute insult to practictioners of a legal and responsible sport = and I demand this commercial be revoked and a public apology be made. - ----------------------- Proud member NRA NFA ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 19:29:06 -0600 From: "John Perocchio" Subject: FWD: Useful info... In October 1997, after a shooter had killed two students at a high school in Pearl, Miss., assistant principal Joel Myrick captured the shooter and held him at gunpoint until the police arrived. An April 1998 school-related shooting in Edinboro, Pa., which left a teacher dead, was stopped by nearby restaurant owner James Strand, who pointed a shotgun at the shooter as he was reloading his gun. The police did not arrive until eleven minutes later. Most news coverage of these incidents ignored the role of guns in ending the bloodshed. In the month following the Mississippi shooting, only 19 of the 687 stories on the incident mentioned Myrick. Some of those said only that he had "disarmed the shooter." In a later story on CBS, Dan Rather noted only that "Myrick eventually subdued the young gunman." Similarly, only 35 of the 596 stories on the Pennsylvania crime mentioned Strand, with the New York Daily News explaining that he had "persuaded [the shooter] to surrender" and the Atlanta Journal-Constitution claiming that he had "chased [the shooter] down and held him until police came."National Review, p. 32, 5/31/1999=20 A 1995 study by Dr. Gary Kleck found that citizens use firearms to stop crimes about 2.5 million times every year--or about 6,850 times a day. Dr. Kleck is a professor in the school of criminology and criminal justice at Florida State University in Tallahassee. He has researched extensively and published several essays on the gun control issue. His book, "Point Blank: Guns and Violence in America" earned Dr. Kleck the prestigious American Society of Criminology Michael J. Hindelang award for 1993. This award is given for the book published in the past two to three years that makes the most outstanding contribution to criminology. Dr. Kleck is a member of the ACLU, Amnesty International USA, and Common Cause. He is not and has never been a member of, or contributor to, any advocacy group on either side of the gun control debate. Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz, "Armed Resistance to Crime: The Prevalence and Nature of Self-Defense With a Gun," The Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology, Northwestern University School of Law, [1] Fall 1995:164. ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #208 **********************************