Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 08:54:13 -0600 Message-Id: <199911271454.IAA28199@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca> X-Authentication-Warning: broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca: majordomo set sender to owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca using -f From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #216 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Saturday, November 27 1999 Volume 03 : Number 216 In this issue: DAFFY DUCK WROTE THE FIREARMS ACT! MADD Canada Website Feedback Re: Extension of Amnesty Re: Tales from the crypt Re: Educating the public... Some 3,128 potentially dangerous gun sales have been blocked LOADED GLOCK NEWS - Australia social gap spurs crime ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 08:53:13 -0600 From: Peter Kearns Subject: DAFFY DUCK WROTE THE FIREARMS ACT! Dear Minister McLellan, Not being one to whine or complain, it offends me when certain people regard my mild and unassuming demeanour as an excuse to tell me lies and incite me to an angry flare up. Having said that I will make the following observations relating to my application to renew my existing Alberta wide ATT. It appears to me that our CFO (George Reid) should be congratulated on the fine job he did encouraging and teaching his clerks (particularly) Richard Clarke to tell great big lies and then laugh when trapped by their own untruths. Unfortunately this clerk isn't bright enough to lie well! I called the CFO office today to ask the clerk about my request to renew an existing province wide ATT. (application only two months old!) Clarke was very pleasant and informed me that he had checked and my membership of a gun club extended past the start of the year 2000, (I belong to about ten such ranges.) I replied in that case I should expect my province wide ATT soon, (casually remarking that the Firearms Act doesn't even require I be a member of any club or range to qualify for the permit.) He said that he could only issue an ATT for the club that had replied, as more than one membership must extend past the year end! I retorted something along the line of "bullfeathers and horsekit!" and the clerk told me that I obviously had misinterpreted the law; then read from his manual to prove it! According to him (and his manual,) an ATT may be issued for up to three years provided the applicant has <<<<<<<<< "a" >>>>>> range or club membership that is valid for that long! (His manual required only one, and it ain't even the law! He said it is the law. Then admitted that was the recommendation in his registrar handbook. (as I said he ain't too bright!) I reminded the clerk that last Tuesday he said ONE membership extending past year end would suffice, and remarked in passing that I could play back the recording of him telling me exactly that. The nitwit actually denied it! Then admitted he may possibly have unintentionally misled me. I remarked that this appeared like a football game where the rules changed at the whim of the umpire and were designed so that nobody could win. I then asked if everyone had these exact same rules imposed on them. The answer was "yes." It so happens I have a copy of a province wide ATT issued by "Jolly Georgie Reid" to a person who is a member of one gun club..................... I told the erstwhile clerk he had said on my tape that "Jolly George" was away last Tuesday, but later found out that George was busy spouting lies to another client, (a friend of mine in fact!) at the time. Clarke the clerk (or possibly "jerk") laughed. I guess lying to, and misleading people is a prerequisite for employment in George's office! (The boss himself appears to be a very able practitioner of the art, and obviously some of his talent must have rubbed off.) According to the CFO Alberta, first you must belong to a range or club, and then if you have multiple memberships "a number" (undefined) of them must extend into the next year for you to qualify! (Maybe!) If you only have one and it extends, then you do qualify! If you comply with all these asinine conditions there is no guarantee that you will be issued a province wide permit. (Did Daffy Duck write the CFO manual, or is Georgie just impersonating him?) I requested that he send me a fax with the above statements in writing, and he said (in a surly manner) that he would pass my request to George. Not only a (not very good) liar, but a gutless one to boot! regards, Peter Kearns (The saga will continue, and next week I shall demand an audience with "Jolly George" himself and bring David Tomlinson and my tape player along too!!) Simon says: Annie you have a bunch of spineless liars working for you! No wonder they tell you the Act is working and everybody likes it.............. and babe you are gullible enough to believe them! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 08:53:09 -0600 From: "John Perocchio Subject: MADD Canada Website Feedback Dear Sir / Madam, I have just been made aware of your ad that involves keys becoming a gun in a bar etc. (see below). Your ad portrays firearms owners in a negative light and as such is discriminatory and unacceptable. Please do not dilute your all too important message by straying into the political gun control minefield. I respectfully ask that you pull your ad now before it offends anymore of the 7+ million firearms owners who doubtless number among your supporters. Thank you, John L. Perocchio Kanata, Ontario Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca From: "Robert E. Pretty" > Subject: CBC Commercial - MADD I acknowledge your wish to stop drunken drivers but that is no reason to attack us. Before you get on a high horse be advised I know what you are about. My mother was killed by a drunken driver when I was 13 but I don't attack others to justify my own circumstance. I also feel that your organization owes us an apology and demand this commercial be revoked ASAP. About 5 minutes ago (November 22, 1999 @ 17:30) I noted a commercial on your station from M.A.D.D. It shows two men and two women some wine at a bar. One of the men get up to leave where upon the second man says are you alright to drive? The other says yeah it was only a little wine. (paraphrased) This immediately shows him with a crazed look and absolute hatred on his face. His car keys turn into a semi-automatic pistol and he begins aiming around the restaurant. The remainder of the commercial shows people falling to the floor, hiding under tables, and screaming in fear. The scene flashes from the man to the restaurant a couple of time. It ends with the pistol being tossed into the air and turning into a set of keys. So now we as firearm owners are being associated with drunken drivers. This commercial is paramount to saying all blacks are drug dealing hoodlum, all followers of the Jewish faith are a bunch of money mongers or any other racial and/or ethnic stereotype. I would expect an organization such as yours would screen your programming better. It is an absolute insult to practitioners of a legal and responsible sport and I demand this commercial be revoked and a public apology be made. - - ----------------------- Proud member NRA NFA - ----------------------------- RESPONSE TO RESTAURANT PSA The MADD Canada "Restaurant" Public Service Announcement is not a comment on guns and gun control, but a parody, that getting behind the wheel of a vehicle while intoxicated is equal to having a loaded weapon in your hands with the intent of harming innocent victims The MADD Canada "Restaurant" PSA is not a new parody, it has been used in the media in relation to the anti-drinking and driving movement since the late 1970's MADD Canada has no issues with responsible gun users, we understand and realize that the vast majority of gun owners are responsible citizens Motor vehicles and guns when operated in a responsible manner do not kill innocent victims ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 08:53:48 -0600 From: "Peter Kearns" Subject: Re: Extension of Amnesty Gord Gallant wrote: > "Previously, Digest readers were informed that the > current amnesty that was due to end on December 1,1999 > was being considered for extension." Peter Kearns wrote: See how those slippery tongued bureaucrats operate? They tell good people like Gord they are extending an "amnesty." An "amnesty" only applies to illegally obtained and possessed items. The "poison dwarf" and his gremlins are trying to make US to regard ourselves as criminals by using this term. For those who don't know. An amnesty is a guarantee that you won't be prosecuted if you hand over something you aren't legally allowed to possess. Amnesties were designed to have criminals hand over their working tools. (illegal guns and weaponry) without fear of prosecution, so that they could then lead blameless and untarnished lives as model citizens of the state. (Another pile of lieberal horse...(oops!) hogwash!) regards, Peter Simon says: Do you notice how the Minister and her vassals always call guns "weapons?" The police refer to us as "civilians." The pollsters call us "consumers." The politicians call us "voters." That is subliminal stuff aimed at making us follow THEIR lead. Simon always resents following organized nitwits, as he notes that what a "follower"sees strongly resembles the back end of a horse. (Especially liberal politicians!) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 08:53:52 -0600 From: "Glenn Springer" Subject: Re: Tales from the crypt >Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 09:42:02 -0600 From: Peter Kearns Subject: "Tales from the CFO (Alberta) crypt!!" >On 5th November the counter man at Edmonton Indoor Range was going quietly about his business when he was rudely interrupted by several oafs loudly proclaiming themselves to be from the Chief Firearms Officer (Alberta,) and claimed to have arrived to inspect the guns and related paperwork. That would have been lovely except........ >One of the registrars strode over, stepped (uninvited) behind the counter and quickly opened a cupboard door below counter level. He reached in and withdrew a (horrors!) loaded Glock handgun, Sorry to be obtuse, but can someone clarify something for me? I was under the impression that it was not illegal to have a loaded firearm at a place where it can be legally discharged (and the Edmonton Indoor Range would certainly qualify), BUT THAT FIREARM WOULD HAVE TO BE UNDER THE DIRECT CONTROL OF A SUITABLY LICENSED INDIVIDUAL. I also understood that the minute a firearm leaves your person, it is no longer under direct control. Holstered, I understand. But would a firearm in an unlocked cupboard qualify? I know and respect Ken Kupsch and certainly sympathize, so I wish him the best. But either Peter's understanding here is incorrect, or mine is. Could someone enlighten me? - -------------------------- Glenn Springer - -------------------------- FAC Firearms Academy Canada: CFO Master Instructor #ON-0095 email glenn@guns.to website http://www.guns.to ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 08:53:57 -0600 From: "Glenn Springer" Subject: Re: Educating the public... Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 08:53:17 -0600 From: Ken Pisichko [some lines snipped for brevity] >Today I spoke with a colleague about the recent induction ceremonies of the Manitoba Sports Hall of Fame. He mentioned that as a city dweller he saw no reason for guns, and that people who had them should have them registered. >When he stated that he had a shotgun that he once used for hunting, and that he had not used it for over 10 years, I sensed a window of opportunity opening up. He then asked how to get one registered, and I seized the opportunity to give him an education. It is certainly understandable that you wish to make your point, but if you provide inaccurate information you are as guilty as "the other side". Your advice to your colleague was inaccurate. >I explained the first step was to take the CFSC at a cost of about $200 and then get a personal license to allow for firearm possession. Incorrect. There is no need to take any course or exam to get a possession only license. Right now it costs $10 and can be obtained by simply sending in the form obtained from the post office. It'll be $45 next month. >I stated that THEN he could register his duck gun for a cost of over $45. unless I am mistaken (I may be) he would register that gun at the same time at no additional cost, via the POL application. Even if he didn't, the cost is $10 now, rising to $14 next month. >When he asked me about grandfathering I stated that we are now in the 'grandfathering' phase and this phase will end in just over a year. I'm not sure what you mean by this. There is no grandfathering. >When he asked me what about not registering the shotgun and just keeping it in the house I stated: >1. Right now you can do that, but eventually you will have to register it. >2. If you don't register the shotgun after the new regulations come into effect you will be in violation of a federal act that has criminal code penalties. You missed a point. He MUST obtain that firearms license before January 1, 2001. Registering the firearm can wait until 2 years later, but as I said above, unless I am mistaken, it would automatically get registered at the same time he makes his POL application. Again, making non-RFC members aware of the legislation is a useful thing to do -- but not at the expense of accuracy. The minute they realize you were lying to them -- or stretching the truth -- they will treat all your arguments with disdain. This reflects poorly on the RFC. Be accurate. If you can't, then make sure you have a disclaimer (like I did by saying I wasn't sure at this instant about one gun getting registered when you make a POL application). I don't have the time right now to look that up. - -------------------------- Glenn Springer - -------------------------- FAC Firearms Academy Canada: CFO Master Instructor #ON-0095 email glenn@guns.to website http://www.guns.to ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 08:54:01 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Some 3,128 potentially dangerous gun sales have been blocked COMMONS DEBATES Friday, November 26, 1999 UNEDITED COPY (Time posted: 13:05) Mr. Inky Mark (Dauphin-Swan River, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, during the November break I met with a dozen municipalities and the RCMP to discuss community policing problems. These problems were created by this government's cutbacks to the RCMP budget. Today there are 39 unfilled RCMP positions in Manitoba, paid for by the taxpayers of Manitoba. The government's new estimates show $35 million for gun control and only $13.8 million for the RCMP. Why does this government put gun registration ahead of putting more police on the streets? Mr. John Maloney (Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the hon. member asked about the benefits of our gun control registration. Let me give the House a few statistics. Some 3,128 potentially dangerous gun sales have been blocked and sent for further investigation. Some 548 applicants have been refused for public safety reasons. Some 451 licences have been revoked for reasons of public safety. This is good legislation. It is working and it is promoting a culture of safety. Why will the Reform Party not accept that? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 08:54:05 -0600 From: "BOB LICKACZ" Subject: LOADED GLOCK Subject: NEWS - Australia social gap spurs crime Coming to your block or farm soon if not already there ! And they want to take our guns away from us. I don't think so !!!! *** Get your Legal Protection from NCSBC- Before Its to LATE ! Check out the attachment, for CFA in Kanata. The Truth Is Out There ! Research, Expose & Take it to the "People". Rod. Bugaresti NCS BC [ VP Communications - Prov. Coordinator ] Web site @ http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/9460/index.html MAC SOG [member/coordinator] , Related Web site @ http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Acres/5472/path.html BCCPD [Member/Activist] , CIA [member/contributor] , *New Phoenix Firearms Association----> "AKA - NFA" - *("original concept" Supporter). TAKE NOTE : :-) Only after the last river has been poisoned, Only after the last tree has been cut down, Only after the last fish has been caught, Only after the last Gun is seized. Only then will you find out that Money Cannot Be Eaten. ~Cree Prophecy~ ---------- > Date: Thursday, November 25, 1999 20:27:31 > From: SSAA > To: SSAA > Subject: NEWS - Australia social gap spurs crime > > The Age, 25/11/99 Melbourne > > Social gap spurs crime, says Labor > > Violent crimes such as assaults and robberies are increasing. > > By Brendan Nicholson-Canberra > > The growing gap between rich and poor has brought a sharp increase in > violent crime, the federal Opposition has warned. > Labor's justice spokesman, Mr Duncan Kerr, said the increase in crime > indicated that many people felt they were excluded from Australia's > economic success. > He was commenting on the latest crime figures from the Australian > Institute of Criminology, which show the number of robberies in > Australia increased by 10.6 per cent last year to 23,778. > Armed robberies jumped by 20 per cent to 10,850, which the institute > said was an increase of 69 per cent on 1995. > Police investigated 132,297 assaults in 1998, up 6 per cent from 1997. > Assaults occurred at the rate of 15 an hour across Australia, 40 per > cent of them in homes. Those most at risk of assaults were males and > females aged from 15 to 24. > The proposition of Australians in jails rose by 52 per cent between 1983 > and 1998, with the overall imprisonment rate jumping from 91.6 of each > 100,000 people to 139.2. > Mr Kerr said the figures appeared to reflect a growing economic and > social division. > "The only plausible explanation appears to be that there is a growing > anti-social response by people who feel that they have been left out, > left behind, and that they are not part of Australia's economic success. > > "More and more people are being drawn into the criminal cycle. > "Australia has split into a country with haves and have-nots and there > are dangerous signs that the glue which holds Australia together may be > starting to dissolve." > The Institute's director, Dr Adam Graycar, warned recently that rapid > technological change was producing an angry, isolated and unemployable > underclass of Australians who were likely to turn to crime as a > lifestyle. > He said globalitation was driving the restructuring of Australia's > economy. The winners in this process were those with skills that were > adaptable, transferable and in high demand. > They would live well and ride the wave of demographic and economic boom > and bust. > The losers would be the victims of structural change who would socially > and demographically isolated - "young people without skills, people with > substance abuse problems, older people who find the new technology > bewildering". > Significant among the losers would be a cohort to young , angry males > who were umemployed and probably living for the moment with no prospects > for the future. > They would seek gratification when and where they could obtain it. > Dr Graycar said many criminologists had focused recently on th idea of > an "underclass" that appeared to be a product of changing social > structures. > "These persons are likely to have a limited education, are unlikely to > ever be employed and often engage in crime as part of a lifestyle which > includes rejection of social norms." he said. > > Crime on the rise > > Armed robberies: 10,850 in 1998. 20% up on 1997. > Total robberies : 23, 778 in 1998, up to 10.6% on 1997. > Assaults: 132,297 in 1998, up 6% on 1997. > ASSAULT DETAILS > Most at risk males and females aged 15 to 24. > 40% of assaults occur at home. > PRISONS > The proportion of Australians in jails rose by 52% in the 15 years from > 1983 to 1998. ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #216 **********************************