Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 07:28:15 -0600 Message-Id: <199911291328.HAA32397@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca> X-Authentication-Warning: broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca: majordomo set sender to owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca using -f From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #218 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Monday, November 29 1999 Volume 03 : Number 218 In this issue: Re: LOADED GLOCK New Zealand Election Results. There is something a tad funny going on here Can you believe it? Take up Our Quarrel With MADD ! Fw: NEWS - NSW Magistrate decision on resist arrest RESPONSE TO RESTAURANT PSA re. Levis Jeans... Re: Educating the Public TYPE 14 NAMBU PISTOL re: pistol crossbows ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 06:30:13 -0600 From: Jon@Huv.com (Jon Hylands) Subject: Re: LOADED GLOCK On Sat, 27 Nov 1999 08:54:05 -0600, "BOB LICKACZ" wrote: > The Glock was loaded with Federal Hydrashock, (which apparently > is also the favoured load of the city police....... Speaking of Federal Hydrashock, is there a legal source for buying this stuff? Currently I hand-load 185 grain JHPs (45 ACP), but I wouldn't mind having some Hydrashocks as well. In fact, I wouldn't even mind just getting some bullets, and loading them myself. Later, Jon - -------------------------------------------------------------- Jon Hylands Jon@huv.com http://www.huv.com/jon Project: Micro Seeker (Micro Autonomous Underwater Vehicle) http://www.huv.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 06:30:10 -0600 From: JohnH Subject: New Zealand Election Results. On Saturday 27th November New Zealanders elected a new Parliament. Although special votes and recounts may effect the eventual numbers of seats there is no doubt that a centre-left Government has been elected. This new coalition replaces the centre coalition previously led by the National Party. Firearm users may want to watch what happens to gun laws over the next few years. Here are the party policies. Labour and Alliance will form the Government. The GREEN Party is 100 votes off crossing the threshold for seats and may yet get in. In which case they will share Labour and Alliance seats thus making a three way Coalition. LABOUR: Centre Left. 52 Seats, 38.9% of votes. Wants registration and a 'firearms authority' Probably wants to confiscate military style firearms but doesn't seem totally committed to the Thorp doctrine. Last in power in1990. ALLIANCE: Leans left. 11 Seats, 7.8% of votes. Wants registration, confiscation of military style firearms, deactivation of collector firearms, full implementation of the Thorp report. Not previously in Government. NATIONAL: Centre Right. 41 Seats, 30.7% of votes: Would register guns to stay in power but doesn't have its heart in that kind of policy. ACT NZ: Moderate Right leaning. 9 Seats, 7% of votes: Against registration. This party was supported by the NZ Firearms Community. Gained 1 seat in the election and apart from Labour was the only Party to increase its share of votes. Supported National in the previous coalition NZ FIRST: Left, Right and Centre! 6 Seats, 4.3% of the vote. Actually changed from wanting registration to a 'wait and see what is happening in Australia and Canada before making a decision' during the election campaign. Was the National coalition partner in previous Parliament. UNITED NZ: Moderate Middle Road. 1 seat .5% of the vote. Does not support registration. Supported National in the previous Parliament We are dissapointed but still have our guns - so far! - -- John Howat NZ Council of Licensed Firearms Owners Inc ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 06:30:17 -0600 From: "Randy Nelson" Subject: There is something a tad funny going on here There is something a tad funny going on here...I attempted to purchase a 45/70 Marlin about a month ago and it should have been one of those mythical 10-minute affairs that Annie is always ranting about. You can well imagine my state when the CFC declined my purchase! My great sin(s) you might ask? Well, I've managed to amass two speeding tickets in 30 years of driving, but other than that, I'm a pitiful bore. The nice French lady at the New Brunswick center for the terminally unemployed, claimed that the matter was confidential and was being passed to my CFO for review. Confidential I argued? I was ultimately given the number to the complaint fax if I wished to voice my concern further. Have you ever tried to voice your complaint to a fax machine? Damn thing just whistles in your ear. Anyway, after speaking with my CFO, he explained that I had been confused with some other Randy Nelson in the system. Apparently, RN #2 is not quite as boring as yours truly. Talk about coincidence, the fact that a good and bad Randy Nelson could share the same FAC# and reside at the same address. What are the chances! Now things get too bizarre. Towards the end of our conversation, my CFO assured me that I could pickup my new rifle, sorry for all the trouble he said. I casually asked about the "confidential" thing associated with this affair. Nothing to worry about he said, just routine. I pressed him again, still no joy. OK I said, and announced that I'd be filing a request for information via the FOIA. Bingo, I think the guy went pale! No need to do that Mr. Nelson, I'll check further for you Mr. Nelson. Power-grovel initiated. At the risk of sounding modestly paranoid fellow Digesters, have I/we been red-flagged for our vocal opposition to the Firearms Act? Annie needs reject statistics. I'm now one of them; a sham within a sham. The DOJ is desperate for anything that smacks of success for their pitiful registry and fabrication is not above this motley crew. I'm pressing forward with my freedom of information request regardless. If anyone out there has had a similar experience, then force the CFC monkeys to disclose via the Information Act. Heck, let's make a digest project of it. All in favor? And the Marlin? Bucks like a mule! Cheers?.Randy "I have been driven many times upon my knees by the overwhelming conviction that I had nowhere else to go. My own wisdom and that of all about me seemed insufficient for that day." - -- Abraham Linclon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 06:30:35 -0600 From: Christopher di Armani Subject: Can you believe it? I opened my mailbox yesterday and was completely shocked! Sitting there was the registration certificate for the firearm I purchased on November 15th, 1999. 11 days to get the actual certificate from Mirimichi.... I wonder what happened to get me such special treatment. I say special, because a friend of mine purchased a firearm at our local gun show over three months ago, and STILL has not seen the registration for it. I'll just count myself lucky, I guess. :) "non assumsit,without prejudice, and all rights reserved". Christopher di Armani Proud Member of the NFA - --------------------- "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." - -Thomas Jefferson, quoting Cesare Beccaria. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 06:30:39 -0600 From: L C S Subject: Take up Our Quarrel With MADD ! Okay folks have at it ! Lets show these people that the RFC Is "DAMM MAD AND WE'RE NOT GONNA TAKE IT ANYMORE" ! Be diplomatic, be helpful, but be firm in that we are not going to allow anyone to get away Scott Free with painting any of our sport and subsistence property as "Illegal Killing Weapons" used indiscriminately against anyone, anywhere. Remember that is the kind of BULLIX that got us beat by the lying Conserv/Liberals in the first place. It has to stop HERE AND NOW ! ! ! Or we will surely lose every piece of our property no matter what ! We have to take it to the people or we are DEAD. Lets get at it and let 'em know we are not going without a fight. Enclosed is the complete list of Chapters of MADD in BC and also the Directory for Canada. Rod.Bugaresti NCS BC [ VP Communications - Prov. Coordinator ] Web site @ http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/9460/index.html MAC SOG [member/coordinator] , Related Web site @ http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Acres/5472/path.html BCCPD [Member/Activist] , Web site@ http://WWW.BCCPD.BC.CA/ CIA [member/contributor] , *New Phoenix Firearms Association---->* * "AKA - NFA" - *("original concept" Supporter). TAKE NOTE : :-) "Non-cooperation with injustice is a sacred duty." - Mahatma Gandhi - ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 06:30:08 -0600 From: ":-)" Subject: Fw: NEWS - NSW Magistrate decision on resist arrest - ---------- > Date: Saturday, November 27, 1999 17:45:36 > From: SSAA > To: SSAA > Subject: NEWS - NSW Magistrate decision on resist arrest > > Sydney Morning Herald > Accused shooter harassed: magistrate > > By STEPHEN GIBBS > > A man charged with attempting to murder a policeman was cleared > yesterday of > shooting at the officer to resist arrest. > > Magistrate Ms Pat O'Shane said there was no evidence police had a lawful > > reason to arrest Michael Kanaan before he allegedly opened fire on them. > > Kanaan is still charged with shooting with intent to murder, and > shooting > with intent to inflict grievous bodily harm on Constable Christopher > Patrech > at Paddington last year. > > The Crown alleges Kanaan shot Constable Patrech in the right leg and > wrist > after being chased from a car. > > Kanaan had also been charged with the attempted murder of former Senior > Constable John Fotopoulos, who shot Kanaan seven times during the > exchange > of fire, but that matter was withdrawn on Thursday. > > Downing Centre Local Court was told Mr Fotopoulos - who, tests showed, > had > used cannabis before the shooting - was severely depressed and would not > > give evidence. > > Kanaan, travelling with Wassim El-Assad, Mark Cheikh and another man > whose > identity has been suppressed, allegedly opened fire on Constable Patrech > on > December 23 last year. > > Mr Fotopoulos let off more than 10 rounds. > > ''There is not a shred of evidence which indicates that any of these > police > officers had any reason to suspect this accused of having committed any > felony,'' Ms O'Shane said. > > She said Sydney police, in particular, had a long history of chasing and > > harassing young people. > > Kanaan told Ms O'Shane yesterday that he was also innocent of the > remaining > charges. She will decide on Monday whether the 25-year-old should stand > trial > > > > Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 06:30:44 -0600 From: L C S Subject: RESPONSE TO RESTAURANT PSA You wrote: > RESPONSE TO RESTAURANT PSA > > > The MADD Canada "Restaurant" Public Service Announcement is > not a comment on guns and gun control, but a parody, that getting > behind the wheel of a vehicle while intoxicated is equal to having a > loaded weapon in your hands with the intent of harming innocent > victims > We the Responsible Firearms Community [RFC] and in particular the RFC/National Communications Service BC understand the ad is a parody. I think I can speak for the RFC as a whole when I say that we too agree that use of a firearm while intoxicated in both irresponsible and dangerous and illegal. So it should be, I do not know of any range or club that would allow such a situation take place in Canada. In fact I am sure the "Chief Range Officer" at any club or range would immediately take custody of the firearm and see to it that proper and legal recourse be instituted forthwith. The same is true for anyone who we know is operating a vehicle in the same condition. I will point out here that most of the RFC supported your program. I know I did and hopefully will in the future. > > The MADD Canada "Restaurant" PSA is not a new parody, it has been used > in the media in relation to the anti-drinking and driving movement > since the late 1970's We also that the parody is not new, however this parody along with others like it from many different organizations both non profit and commercial have used the same tactic. At this time I will point out to you all that this type of parody was used repeatedly by both the Conservatives under Brian Mullroney and by first Allan Rock then Ann McLellan of the now in power Liberal government. Both used these parodies to campaign, to put in place a law that is the biggest "Lie & Fraud", Draconian, Outright Attack, ever produced by a democratic government upon the very people who elected them to power. They did it under the lie that Gun Control is Crime Control, that has been proven false by so many "Experts" that they are to numerous to name here. You may want to note; That this illegitimate Law now called the "Canada Firearms Act" {CFA} or as some of RFC still refer to as Bill C-68 and the amendments thereto in the "Canadian Criminal Code" {CCC} affect all of "you" as well. Do any of you know that there is now in law. The Legal ability of the RCMP ERU (SWAT) team to smash into "Your" home at any given time without warrant. That this law allows them the powers of search and seizure without warrant. That is what this letter is all about. It was these sorts of "parodies" that were used as propaganda, yes, Propaganda to Flim Flam the tax payers and voters of Canada into supporting this "Lie and Fraud" called the CFA & CCC amendments thereto. The RFC has no problem with you using dangerous weapons as examples in your ads. Why not use a grenade or someone setting a mine on the highway or street or any number of other such examples. If you like the RFC can provide the technical assistance and even the actors [LOL]. Our Community consists of all walks of life and professions. I am sure any number of experts would be more than willing to help and take part in such a venture. Probably Pro Bono for a sister Non Profit Organization. I can speak for NCSBC when I say this. We certainly have no problem working with you or carrying your literature and even Ads in our Vancouver Walk In Centre. We will even distribute your literature "FREE" at all our tables at shows and shoots and Rallies. Please see our web site @ http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/9460/index.htm There you will find amble evidence to sustantiate what I have referred to. Or you can go to the New Phoenix Firearms Association {NFA} web site and there too you will find ample evidence to substantiate my statement. > > > MADD Canada has no issues with responsible gun users, we understand > and realize that the vast majority of gun owners are responsible > citizens > We the citizens of the RFC thank you for the understanding, but please understand our concerns as well. > > Motor vehicles and guns when operated in a responsible manner do not > kill innocent victims. We (NCSBC) could not agree with you more. However if you do not do something about changing or dropping that ad. You will leave us no choice but to advise our readers and members to "boycott your organization" and we NCSBC. Will Begin to organize a "Information Picket" outside of "every one" of your BC locations and will council our brothers and sisters in the other RFC organizations in BC and both Canada [some 7 million RFC members] and the US [exact number unknown - approx. 49 million] to do the same in their locals. I hope to hear from you soon or even better have your Burnaby President Mr. Hugh Atrill, drop by our Centre for a coffee and bring some of Your Literature for us to hand out, with him. Meet with our NCSBC President and Spokes Person, Ms. Michelle Traver. I know he will find the occasion both informative and productive and perhaps even enjoyable LOL....... Our Drop In Center is open Mon. to Wed. - 10 am to 5 pm, Thurs & Fri - 11am to 7pm and Sat. - 11am to 5pm.. pH: 1-604-253-3311 or Fax: 1-604-255-2202 , Email either herein or rmcreat@istar.ca. I await your answer. Yours in Respect Rod.Bugaresti NCS BC [ VP Communications - Prov. Coordinator ] Web site @ http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/9460/index.html MAC SOG [member/coordinator] , Related Web site @ http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Acres/5472/path.html BCCPD [Member/Activist] , Web site@ http://WWW.BCCPD.BC.CA/ CIA [member/contributor] , *New Phoenix Firearms Association---->* * "AKA - NFA" - *("original concept" Supporter). PS There is no Email addy for Nicola Valley, therefore I will send this letter by fax this date to: Ms Jo-Anne Chaster c/o Ms. Sherri Porte. Chapter: Nicola Valley Phone: (250) 315-0159 Fax: (250) 378-4615 Address: Box 2191, Merritt BC V1K 1B8 President: Jo-Anne Chaster Contact: Sherri Porte ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 06:30:26 -0600 From: Tom MacMillan Subject: re. Levis Jeans... Would some kind (and less forgetful) soul please provide me with the URL for that dreadful, gun bashing, Levis web site? Thanks! ===== Tom & Pat MacMillan Model_43_Winchester@yahoo.com The above comments are my opinions and do not reflect the views of any organization. Please visit the National Firearm Association web pages at: http://www.nfa.ca/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 06:30:48 -0600 From: Ken Pisichko Subject: Re: Educating the Public On Sat, 27 Nov 1999, R. Boswell wrote: > Glen: I agree with most of what you posted in reply to Kens posting however it is my belief that when you enter the data on the POL or a PAL it is not a registration. That same firearm will be required to be registered in a separate transaction prior to Jan 1 2003. Yes I believe that we must get our information correct, particularly when speaking to the uniformed, however this is becoming increasing difficult as the application of the various requirement are being administered differently from province to province. A good example is the Range issue here in BC and the fact that some CFO will not issue a 3 yr ATT. > Cheers > Bob Boswell > Hi have offered to give the fellow with the shotgun printed information from the NFA that would help him with his situation. There were several points that I omitted from my submission to CFD. Naturally I had to tell him that my word was not an official one, and that he should carefully look at the PAL situation and decide for himself if he merely wanted a possession-only or the possession and acquiring license. I furthermore did not get into the situation with restricted firearms that many of the CFD readers are familiar with. So far he has not responded to my offer of printed information.... Thanks to one and all for feedback and cautionary "advice". Ken ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 06:30:29 -0600 From: "kaiten6" Subject: TYPE 14 NAMBU PISTOL Hi all,being a occasional contributor to the digest,on the subject of C-68,I thought I'd post an inquiry concerning a Type 14 Nambu pistol I have in my collection.The question I have is did the Japanese number these pistols sequentially? The reason I'm asking is that the pistol I have has a very low serial # indicating manufacture before 1930(source-F.E.Leithe Japanese Hand Guns) The receiver indicates manufacture by the Kokura Arsenal,the trigger and safety are straw coloured & the magazine is nickel plated with a polished aluminium butt & the same serial # as the receiver. The frame however has a large trigger guard,& a manufacture date of 18.12 which I believe indicates a manufacture date of 12/43. The pistol itself is near mint.with a mirror bore & exhibits fine workmanship,something which I believe mid-late war pistols did not. Considering the above would I be correct in assuming that the pistol was changed to the LG frame in 12/43 or later? Your opinion would be appreciated. Cheers - Cody P.S. re the trouble some subscribers have in getting the firearms back from the police even after they have been found not guilty of all charges etc.I had the same problem ,in my case it took a letter from my lawyer demanding return of my property & finally I call by me to the Crown Prosecutor who handled my case. I can still recall when finally picking up my firearms at the main station( they were dumped in a grocery cart,good for the finish you know)a cop bugging me about selling him my Luger. Unbelievable! but thats another story. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 07:28:02 -0600 From: Brian Drader Subject: re: pistol crossbows Someone had inquired as to the legality of pistol crossbows. A previous digest post explained that the CFC does not consider the components of a crossbow to be a crossbow unless the prod, string, and stock are in place. I've received a letter indicating otherwise (dated October 6 1999) from Kathleen Roussel. The letter states, "As you know, pistol crossbows, or those crossbows with a total lenth of 500mm or less are prohibited weapons. If such a device were altered by removing the bowstring, it would continue to be a pistol crossbow and therefore prohibited. Similarly, it is immaterial whether or not the brod (sic) is attached to the stock." So, apparently as long as a pistol crossbow was never assembled from parts, then the parts are legal. If a pistol xbow was ever assembled, then the CFC considers one or more of its component parts to be prohibited. I doubt whether a judge would agree that a pistol xbow bowstring or prod is in itself a prohibited weapon. __________________________________________________________ Get your FREE personalized e-mail at http://www.canada.com ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #218 **********************************