To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #236 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Friday, December 17 1999 Volume 03 : Number 236 In this issue: Letter to Editor re Media & Montreal Tragedy Reporting Teen with plastic cap gun sparks police response Re: registration information please Re: "Happy Christmas to all our readers" ATIP Re: Self Defense and the Law Re: Random shootings in the USA Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #233 Question Private police force. Not Enough Firearms Crime in Canada Registration Cards and Access to Information Operation Red Nose in Calgary Closed for Y2K Fw: Re: Private police force. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:54:18 -0600 From: Ron Alton Subject: Letter to Editor re Media & Montreal Tragedy Reporting > Dec. 6,1999 > > The Editor, > The Sault Star, > Sault Ste. Marie, Ont. > > Re: 10th Anniversary of the Ecole Polytechnique Tragedy > > Today, on the 10th anniversary of the death of 14 young women students > at the hands of a > madman at Montreal's Ecole Polytechnique we have witnessed various > recollections via > media interviews of those directly affected and some interviews with gun > abolitionists. We > even heard a political speech by none less than the Prime Minister in > the House of > Commons to at once decry the maddness of that horrible day in our > history which is > appropriate but also to advance his political agenda on so-called gun > control which is > not. He never qualifies anything on this subject which makes his > admonitions particularly > sickening when he uses the anniversary of such a tragedy to attempt to > cover his political > blunder of the bad, money- wasting legislation known as the Firearms Act > which will do > nothing to stop the Mark Lapine=92s of the world. > > All Canadians agonize over the memory of this tragedy and so they > should. Like the rest > of society, targetshooters and hunters have mothers, wives, daughters > and grandaughters > and we feel the pain equally with all Canadians as in our minds eye we put ourselves in > the position of the families affected and feel their anguish. How could > it be otherwise? > > Today's CBC radio slant on this was not so subtle and was done via > carefully selected > interviewees making anticipated statements that made it sound as if all > men that own guns > hate women. One person interviewed espoused the theory that men don't want women to > pursue careers in engineering. When interviewed by the CBC, Wendy > Cukier, the queen of > the Coalition for Gun Control used the moment to cry out for more gun control and her advanced her book on the Montreal tragedy; neither of them acknowledged the fact > that even if the current Firearms Act now under dispute had been in > effect, it would not > have stopped Lapine in his psychotic rampage. A song written as a lament to the tragedy > was played on CBC radio north and it parlayed men who own guns as evil towards > women. On the tube tonight the CBC National took a shot at legitimate gun clubs thus > casting them in a bad light as if they were somehow partly responsible for the tragedy. > CTV news wasn't any less pointed in its attack on the rights of > lawabiding gunowners as > viewers were treated to biased points of view on unqualified gun > control. > > In none of this did the media acknowledge either directly or through > interviewees that the > community of responsible firearm owners across Canada is strongly behind > regulations > that support safe firearm use and storage and reasonable screening > processes of those > purchasing firearms. And there was no mention that the National Firearms > Association of > Canada has put forward to Parliament Hill and to all the Provinces and > Territories the > proposal entitled "The Practical Firearms Control System", a well > thought-out and > cost-effective alternative to the currently unworkable Firearms Act. > Instead, viewers were > left with the impression that we in the firearms community are careless > and arrogant in the > pursuit of our basic civil rights. I'd say that's pretty sad reporting > and a terrible misuse of > a sad moment in our history. > > Finally, isn't it interesting that our taxpayer-owned CBC put such an > effort into this story > today-why not on the 7th, 8th or 9th anniversary of the tragedy? Could > it be that with the > Supreme Court appeal of the 1998 Alberta court decision on the near > horizon that the > CBC sycophants are seizing the moment, singing the party line, not > biting the hand that > feeds them and thus are continuing to play the government's cretinous > Bill C68 Lullaby in > an effort to narcotize us all on its hidden agenda! > > Ron P Alton > St. Joe's Island > Ontario. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 17:02:05 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Teen with plastic cap gun sparks police response > PUBLICATION: The Chronicle-Herald > DATE: 1999.12.15 > SECTION: Metro > PAGE: A12 > > ; Teen with cap gun sparks police response in Halifax > > A teenage boy carrying a plastic cap gun caused a brief stir in north-end > Halifax Tuesday morning. > A Duffus Street resident called Halifax Regional Police at around 8:25 a.m. > after seeing the 14-year-old holding what appeared to be a gun. > The boy went into Highland Park Junior High School on Robie Street, and > officers quickly arrived to search for him. > After finding the boy, the officers determined that no charges were > warranted. > "The student didn't do anything outside that would dictate a charge by us," > regional police spokesman Const. Frank Bowes said. > The boy was turned over to school administrators, who will "handle it as they see fit," he said. > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 17:07:44 -0600 From: "Robin Leech" Subject: Re: registration information please > No, you have to register all of the guns you own at the time you apply for a > Possession Only Licence. This way, there is a record of what you have at > the time you applied. At a future date, you can own fewer guns (sold, lost, > given, or whatever) in the event of a police check, but you cannot own any > more guns, and you cannot have in your possession any guns that are not on > the POL. > I think that you are also unable to "borrow" or "rent" a gun, as you do not > have the PAL - which would allow you to do this. > > Robin Leech ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 17:10:16 -0600 From: Peter Kearns Subject: Re: "Happy Christmas to all our readers" Generalissimo Lickacz wrote: > > I sure hope that Mr. Clarke will decide to dress Peter a little more > fashionably.... > > > Peter Kearns wrote: > > As the new "poster boy" for "Lafleche Brothers" (bespoke tailors to the gentry of Edmonchuk,) I am surprised and dismayed, (nay, even appalled) that the > "generalissimo" is impugning my fashion tastes. Only the fact that the > Christmas season is upon us, and my well known good nature and demure demeanour > prevent me from asking when Bob is going to change into his cleated winter > clogs...... My wife and I would like to wish friends, (and foes) a very > happy Christmas and prosperous new year. (Except for the "poison dwarf" that > is!) > sincerely, > Peter and Anne Kearns, and "Scummer the cat." > > Simon says: "Federales" you may now relax, as Kearns is heading for his > ancestral homeland to inflict himself on, and annoy his relatives, and will be > away from computers for three weeks.... (BY CHOICE.) > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 17:11:56 -0600 From: Peter Cronhelm Subject: ATIP > I am staring to get replies to the access to information requests I put > out. I find it interesting that some of the federal departments are > requesting my birth date. One would think that if a birthdate was > REQUIRED to fulfill the request that there would be a field on the form > for such info. As there isn't, one might surmise that this bit of info > is NOT required so WHY are they asking for it? > > On top of all this, it is painfully obvious that the dopey gits never > even attempted to look up my information as my name is very rare. There > are only 5 Cronhelm males in this country, they are all related to me > and none of them are named Peter. Being the only Peter Cronhelm in the > country one might think it would be pretty easy to assure that they have > the right information on the correct Peter Cronhelm > > Peter Cronhelm > > PS I am just waiting for some CFC employee to try to slow down a > registration for me using the excuse they mixed up my name with someone > else. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 17:13:14 -0600 From: rmcreat@istar.ca (Michelle Traver) Subject: Re: Self Defense and the Law > >Can anyone tell me what is the law in Canada reference self > >defense? Is it legal to shoot at someone if there is definite reason > >to believe your life is at stake - ie you're looking down the wrong > >end of a barrel? > > > >I'd rather be judged by 12 rather than carried by 6, but what is the > >law? > > > >Thanks > > CCC Part 1 Sect. 34(1) > > Every one who is unlawfully assaulted without having provoked the assault > is justified in repelling force by force if the force he uses is not > intended to cause death or grievous bodily harm and is no more than is > necessary to enable him to defend himself. > > (2) Every one who is unlawfully assaulted and who causes death or grievous > bodily harm in repelling the assault is justified if > > (a) he causes it under reasonable apprehension of death or grievous bodily > harm from the violence with which the assault was originally made or with > which the assailant pursues his purposes; and > > (b) he believes, on reasonable grounds, that he cannot otherwise preserve > himself from death or grievous bodily harm. > > Section 35 refers to Provoked Assault. > > Privacy is a sacred thing, > > Michelle Traver (owner) SSAC > NCBCS Pres. & Spokesperson > HACS member, PPLC Assoc. > http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/9460/index.html > or at: www.home.istar.ca/mac_sog/ > 604-253-3311 fax 604-255-2202 > 1708 E. 1st Ave. > Vancouver, BC V5N 1B1 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 18:10:15 -0600 From: Andy Krywonizka Subject: Re: Random shootings in the USA > Oh please, don't even start. According to this logic, anyone who plays > violent video games is a potential cold-blooded killer. The fact of the > matter is, there are MILLIONS of players, some who own guns and some who > don't, who have not committed acts of violence on other people. They > restrict themselves to the pixelated gore of the CRT. > > What you're doing is no different from what liberals and bleeding hearts do, > put blame on an inanimate object for someone's actions. If anything is to > blame, it is the media for telegraphing the message, "go kill your > classmates and we'll make you a superstar!". *I* play violent video games > and I thoroughly enjoy blasting someone over the internet into a bloody > pulp. I also own several "assault rifles". Guess I'm gonna use them to kill > my co-workers, right? Then again, I have been granted permission by the > government to use explosives (with three different licenses), I have a > restricted area airport pass cleared by CSIS, and I carry a prohibited > handgun in the course of my duties as an armed guard. Hmm, perhaps not. > > Andy K. > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 18:10:18 -0600 From: "Mike Hargreaves" Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #233 > Ref: Fake Guns do not have to look real. > > We just returned from Arizona {in the land of the free} and while talking to > the owner of a Firearms related Sports Business, he was asked by an other > customer "Don't you carry a Hand Gun anymore" " No{he said} I carry two" > and with that comment he pulled {very carefully} two toy Revolvers out of > the pockets of his slacks. > The two revolvers were a lovely shade of green, except the Cylinders, which > were a nice shade of grey, the same Grey that a pair of grey flannel pants > would be!! > The two revolvers, which were not TOYS!! were S&W .38 Special Airlights! > weigh about 6 ozs unloaded, and the Aluminium portions take the lovely green > finish a treat! > Now I tell you, these look just like TOYS! but are real! so can you make a > Toy Gun look real? Yes! Can you make a real one look like a toy? Yes! Teach > your Children Safe Firearm handling, Safe Direction ALWAYS!! And buy the > biggest Safe you can afford!! Practice safe storage, and when you are not > home, there is no chance that a child can obtain the use of a real Firearm > to "Play" with. Mike Hargreaves. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 18:10:17 -0600 From: "BIG GIMMEL" Subject: Question > I have a question? I was sued for $10,000 and a judgement was issued. I was suppose to go for disclosure and due to a mix up i missed it. A bench warrant was issued which i was not aware of. Subsequently I went for disclosure and now I have been notified by the opp that my new att wil not be issued until the benchwarrant is removed. Is this bench warrant enough for them to stop my att being issued? Any information would be appreciated.That is all I have against me or ever have. Thanks > Dan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 18:10:18 -0600 From: Dan MacInnis Subject: Private police force. > Fact. The TD Bank (and maybe the others) in Montreal have hired > Pinkerton's armed guards to patrol from bank branch to bank branch > due, they say, to the amount of money they are transferring because of the y2k scare. > > I ask, if this is NOT using firearms to protect private property, what > is it? So the double standard is becoming more evident every day, > citizens, if robbed in their homes or business', are charged if they > do the same thing. Plus, we are not allowed to keep a firearms handy > for the same purpose. C17. > > Look deeper into this, examine it carefully. Think about corporations > being armed and the citizen unarmed. > > And all I am doing is reporting facts here, not an opinion.Check it > out. > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 18:10:15 -0600 From: Kyle and Barbara Berry Subject: Not Enough Firearms Crime in Canada > An article in the local D.C. paper, datelined WATERLOO, Ont., was titled > NOT ENOUGH CRIME IN CANADA FOR BULLET IDENTIFICATION DEVICE > > The report goes on about Roman Baldur, a professor at the University of > Waterloo, and his award winning Integrated Ballistics Identification System > which has been a resounding success, with sales to police forces in the > U.S., South Africa, Turkey, Greece and Israel. The system uses a laser > guided microscope and digital camera to record and store the image of the > fired bullet. Instead of a tedious comparison by hand and eye, the > computer directs the search. The saved file can be easily sent to police > in other areas. > > Ironically, Baldur has not sold any in Canada. "There's not enough crime > here," he said. > > I guess someone should have told "Dat Guy who shagged us" about that before > he spent all the bucks on the registry system. > > "Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of stupidity." > Frank Leahy > > Kyle Berry > Dawson Creek, BC > Canada ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 07:10:17 -0600 From: Marcel Boudreau Subject: Registration Cards and Access to Information > I purchased two guns last January. > I called repeatedly for the first three months asking where my > registration cards were. > I recently applied through access to information for information on the > status of my registrations and details why the delay. > This week I received a letter from the Dept of Justice saying my > application under freedom of information had been received and would be > processed. > Today I received both registration cards. > > Coincidence, I think not. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Marcel Boudreau, CD, P.Eng. boudreau@chebucto.ns.ca > Home Page: http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/~boudreau/Profile.html > Macintosh Software Public Download Area (PDA) Manager > Chebucto Community Net, Halifax, Nova Scotia O- > > Webmaster: Atlantic Marksmen Association Web Site: > http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/Recreation/AMA > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 15:34:33 -0600 From: "Jim Hinter" Subject: Operation Red Nose in Calgary Closed for Y2K > On New Years Eve, OPERATION REDNOSE a project run out of the University of > Calgary which allows a person who has had too much to drink to call and have > him and his vehicle driven home, will not be in operation. > > The building which has housed this project at the University of Calgary will > be closed that evening in order to make sure that there are no Y2K problems. > > The NFA has spoken to local media and is seeking to find alternative options > for OPERATION REDNOSE on New Years Eve. > > The NFA is very surprised that MADD has not surfaced in this effort. > > Could it be that MADD is too busy paying for television ads that insult > firearm owners? > > When you look under the surface for ACTION, you find the NFA already doing > the work needed. > > Jim Hinter > National Vice President Communications > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 15:34:27 -0600 From: "Mark Holmes" Subject: Fw: > OFAH FILE: 401-11/828 > December 16, 1999 > FAX: 1-519-894-3829 > > The Editor > > Kitchener Waterloo Record > > 225 Fairway Road > > Kitchener, Ontario > > N2G 4E5 > > Dear Editor: > > Let's get at the truth. > > It is truly unfortunate that some people must sink into hyperbole when = > expressing opinion. And, Emile J. Therien's December 6 letter to the = > editor is one great, glaring example of exaggeration. > > No one, including law-abiding gun owners, will dispute the horror and = > revulsion of the deaths 10 years ago at Montreal's Ecole Polytechnique. = > Yet, through sensational misinformation, Therien manages to diminish the = > scope of this tragedy, and, at the same time, avoid identification of = > the societal failures that lead to such brutal behavior. > > As Therien repeats the same, time-worn, anti firearm mantra, he attempts = > to claim shooting is the most common method of homicide. Wrong! > > According to Statistics Canada, beatings, stabbing and strangulation = > are, by far, the most common cause of death among homicide victims. Two = > thirds of homicide victims are male. > > Firearms were involved in 151 homicides in 1998, 42 fewer than the = > previous year, and the resulting rate of .50 deaths per 100,000 = > population is the LOWEST firearms related homicide rate since 1961 when = > this type of data was first collected. Meanwhile, the rates for homicide = > by stabbing, beating or strangulation have all increased. > > When people like Therien point the finger of blame at law-abiding = > firearms owners, the unfortunate result is that the true causes of = > firearms related crime, homicide or otherwise, are ignored. Because = > people trust a person in a place of authority or responsibility, they = > can and have been misled by people like Therien. And, because of these = > emotional arguments, hundreds of millions of dollars are being wasted on = > a firearms registry that will do virtually nothing to stop criminals or = > the mentally deranged, leaving the cycle of violence and misery to = > continue. > > > ONTARIO FEDERATION OF ANGLERS AND HUNTERS > In almost all cases, violent criminal behavior is the result of social = > problems, including poverty, substance abuse and mental illness. If the = > $300 million so far spent on registering duck and gopher guns were to be = > spent on social services such as housing, mental health clinics and drug = > and alcohol rehabilitation facilities, a much greater impact on crime = > could be achieved. > > > Increased policing would also help deter crime, but the huge waste of = > money on firearms registration has meant declining enforcement. Fewer = > police, shrinking police budgets and front line officers filing gun = > registration paperwork is the distinct and utterly deplorable legacy of = > the registration scheme which recently underwent a scathing independent = > review. > > > Nowhere in his column does Therien mention the fact that a = > PriceWaterhouseCoopers review revealed the Canadian Firearm Registry to = > be woefully inaccurate, inflexible and inefficient, not to mention = > several hundred million dollars over budget. > > > To be perfectly clear, law-abiding gun owners are NOT opposed to = > firearms controls that work. Bill C-68 and its provisions for = > registering every law-abiding firearm owner and his or her guns will not = > stop criminals. Programs similar to those implemented under Bill C-68 = > have failed miserably in Great Britain and Australia where crime rates = > are now soaring. > > > As president of the Canadian Safety Council, Mr. Therien should provide = > fact based information without cloaking issues in emotional rhetoric. He = > and the government of Canada must recognize the fallacy of the firearms = > registration debacle and refocus efforts on programs that will, in a = > meaningful way, address crime. > > Yours in Conservation, > Mark Holmes > Communications Specialist ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 15:34:32 -0600 From: Dave Tomlinson Subject: Re: Private police force. > >> Fact. The TD Bank (and maybe the others) in Montreal have hired > >> Pinkerton's armed guards to patrol from bank branch to bank branch > >> due, they say, to the amount of money they are transferring because of the > >y2k scare. > > >> I ask, if this is NOT using firearms to protect private property, what > >> is it? > > The armed guards do NOT have the right to use those firearms to protect > property. They can only be used to protect human life from criminal > violence, except in the circumstances outlined below. That is the law in > Canada. > > However, the Pinkerton can attempt to arrest anyone that he sees "committing > an indictable offence" [CC s. 494(1), which authorizes him to do that: "Any > one may arrest without warrant (a) a person whom he finds committing an > indictable offence..."]. If the criminal resists arrest, he [or any other > individual] "is justified in doing what he is...authorized [by CC s. 494] to > do and in USING AS MUCH FORCE AS IS NECESSARY for that purpose [CC s. 25]." > > Summary: If the Pinkerton (or anyone else) fails to TELL the criminal that > he is arresting the criminal, then he is NOT justified in using a firearm on > the criminal. If he DOES tell the criminal that he is under arrest, and the > criminal resists arrest, THEN he is justified in using the firearm to apply > "as much force as is necessary" to STOP the resistance and arrest the > criminal -- if he is still alive. > > The Pinkerton (or anyone else) is also authorized to use force in > self-protection [CC s. 34, 35, 37 and 38], but the protection given to the > person engaged in self-protection is MUCH weaker than the protection > afforded by the "arrest" situation. In the "arrest" situation, the > arresting civilian is given all the same protections that apply to a police > officer in the same situation. > > David A Tomlinson > National President, National Firearms Association > Ph: (780)439-1394 Fax: (780)439-4091 natpres@nfa.ca > Box 1779, EDMONTON AB, T5J 2P1 > ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #236 **********************************