Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 09:15:31 -0600 Message-Id: <200001071515.JAA19716@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca> X-Authentication-Warning: broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca: majordomo set sender to owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca using -f From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #247 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Friday, January 7 2000 Volume 03 : Number 247 In this issue: Looking for a Southam Newspaper? Emile-J. Therien Writes Again Looking for a Newspaper's Website? WWII firearm registration/confiscation Most hated topic - gun cleaning JUSTICE DEPARTMENT STILL KEEPING HIGH COST OF GUN REGISTRY Lott on Guns & crime "This is clearly Larry and Moe doing gun control." Firearms Registration Imporation of an Airsoft gun Ontario Application for Collector Status ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 08:32:36 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Looking for a Southam Newspaper? http://www.southam.com/search.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 08:32:42 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Emile-J. Therien Writes Again PUBLICATION GLOBE AND MAIL DATE: THU JAN.06,2000 PAGE: A18 BYLINE: EMILE-J. THERIEN CLASS: Letter to the Edit EDITION: Metro DATELINE: Ottawa ON Air-gun hazards The tragedy that resulted in the death of a 26-year-old man on New Year's Eve in the emergency ward of St. Michael's Hospital raises serious concerns and questions about air guns. Air guns (BB guns, pellet guns) are often mistaken for real firearms and are inherently dangerous consumer products. Why they were not regulated years ago under the Hazardous Products Act raises many questions. Air guns have wreaked more havoc and injury than many products long regulated under that act. These firearms must be brought into the loop of the federal government's gun control legislation, Bill C-68. The sooner the better. Emile-J. Therien President, Canada's National Safety Council, Ottawa ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 08:32:39 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Looking for a Newspaper's Website? http://www.webwombat.com.au/intercom/newsprs/canada.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 09:15:06 -0600 From: Don Clarke Subject: WWII firearm registration/confiscation On Thu, 6 Jan 2000 "Alan Harper" wrote the following in the Canadian Firearms Digest. > How many people remember that full firearms > registration existed in Canada during W.W.II? > All firearms were required to be registered. > I can't imagine what the purpose was, perhaps > to supply an invading army with lists of > firearms to gather?????!!! Al, the firearms "registration" was brought in before Canada got involved in WWII. And the major purpose of that "list" was? It gave the Canadian authorities the ability to vist those people deemed "enemy aliens" and ask for the registered firearms "known" to be in their hands when the war came along. Which kinda shows how much we can trust them when they say "Registration does not mean confiscation!" - -- Remove .spamtrap to reply. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 09:15:03 -0600 From: Peter Cronhelm Subject: Most hated topic - gun cleaning After three evenings of battle with the copper fouling in my 22-250 I am seriously considering purchasing one of the Outers Foul-Out electrolysis kits. Has anyone had any experience with this system? Other than the fact it is expensive, are there any problems or pitfalls associated with such a system? Both my wife and I shoot which means we have a LOT of guns to clean so anything which would speed up the process would be well worthwhile. Peter Cronhelm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 09:15:01 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: JUSTICE DEPARTMENT STILL KEEPING HIGH COST OF GUN REGISTRY NEWS RELEASE January 7, 2000 For Immediate Release JUSTICE DEPARTMENT STILL KEEPING HIGH COST OF GUN REGISTRY A SECRET "Liberals used the Access to Information Act to blank-out all dollar amounts on their proposed budget." Yorkton - Garry Breitkreuz, MP for Yorkton-Melville and Official Opposition Firearms Critic, is appalled with the government's most recent response to one of his Access to Information requests. "Last September, I asked for the proposed budget allocation for the government's gun registration scheme. Three months later, they sent back a budget document with all the dollar figures blanked out! How long can the Department of Justice use the Access to Information Act to hide budget information about the Canadian Firearms Centre and the Canadian Firearms Registry from the Canadian people?" asked Breitkreuz. "This is information that the department should have made public on April 1, 1999 following the tabling of the departmental estimates in Parliament." Breitkreuz has asked Information Commissioner John Reid to investigate. "In June the Department of Justice used 'Cabinet confidences' to hide 172 pages of budget documents from the public and now this. At this rate, we may have the actual expenditures for this fiscal year before we learn what they proposed," said Breitkreuz. "I asked the Information Commissioner to please put an end to this 'culture of secrecy' concerning the cost of the government's gun registration scheme." "It is vital for government to hide the true costs in order to maintain the charade that the public supports their gun registration program," stated Breitkreuz. To prove this point, he referred to polling information published by the Mackenzie Institute in January of 1997, "Canadian Attitudes Toward Gun Control: The Real Story." When respondents were asked: "Do you agree or disagree that all firearms should be registered?" 75.7% Agreed Strongly. When respondents were asked: "If it would cost $500 million over the next five years to set up and maintain a firearms registry, would you still agree?" Only 32.4% Agreed Strongly. "We have been able to document that the Liberals have spent more than $300 million on their flawed registration scheme since 1995 - a far cry from their original estimate of $85 million over five years. The public has a right to know the truth. It's time for full disclosure so the Canadian people can make intelligent choices about more cost-effective alternatives for combating the criminal use of firearms," concluded Breitkreuz. - -30- For more information, please call: Yorkton Office: (306) 782-3309 Ottawa Office: (613) 992-4394 e-mail: breitg0@parl.gc.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 09:15:14 -0600 From: "T.Bennett Finley" Subject: Lott on Guns & crime An excellent interview with Lott at: http://www.reason.com/0001/fe.js.cold.html T.Bennett Finley ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 09:15:11 -0600 From: Nancy (by way of mike ) Subject: "This is clearly Larry and Moe doing gun control." >This article should be saved and given to every hunter who isn't active in >stopping gun control laws because his rifle isn't an "assault" weapon. > >----- > >Two Dealers Halt Sale of Hunting Rifles > >Source: Los Angeles Times >Published: 1-6-2000 >Author: Carl Ingram > >SACRAMENTO--Fearful that they could be accused of selling outlawed assault >weapons, two major California gun dealers said Wednesday they have >indefinitely suspended the sale of many popular hunting rifles. > >Executives of Turner's Outdoorsman, a big retail sporting goods chain in >Southern California, and Trader Sports Inc. of San Leandro, a Northern >California firearms retailer, said hundreds of rifles had been removed from >sales shelves on Jan. 1. > >In interviews, they charged that recent administrative regulations by Atty. >Gen. Bill Lockyer to implement California's new assault weapons control law >were so narrowly drawn that they would ban the sale and possession of many >legal guns used for hunting deer, bear and wild pigs. > >Rather than risk potential arrest or other legal liability, spokesmen for >the two dealers said the businesses decided to indefinitely suspend the sale >of such popular hunting guns as the Remington 7400 and the Ruger Mini-14. > >"We definitely want to comply with the law. However, we are really unsure >what we can do without putting ourselves or our customers in jeopardy," said >Bill Ortiz, an executive of Turner's, which operates 13 stores, in Southern >California. > >"If you follow their description, there aren't any guns that are legal," >said Tony Cucchiara of Trader Sports; "We've pulled about 300 pieces that f >thought were marginal pending a clearer view from the attorney general." >Nathan Barankan, a spokesman for Lockyer, defended the regulations, >asserting that they accurately reflected the Legislature's intent in >enacting the law. > >"For those who opposed the first assault weapons ban back in 1989, their >failed argument has always been that, assault weapons are sporting weapons. >Unless your sport is war, there is no justification for that point of view," >Barahkan said. > >While the 1999 Legislature substantially toughened controls on assault >weapons, it was left to Lockyer's Department of Justice to propose and adopt >administrative regulations that implement the statute. > >In essence, the regulations are intended to help police officers, gun >dealers and citizens identify the differences between a banned assault gun >and a legal firearm. > >During debate last year on the new assault weapons restrictions, backers of >the bill, SB 23 by Sen Don Perata (D-Alameda), said they went to >extraordinary lengths to avoid including hunting rifles in the prohibition. > >"We figured we knew what the legislative intention was, but this has thrown >a wrench into the works," Ortiz said. "We have spent a lot of time trying to >avoid this jeopardy and legal peril." > >Throughout the long debate over assault weapons, the National Rifle Assn. >and other opponents of new controls contended that it was impossible to >craft an effective definition of an assault gun that would exclude guns used >for hunting or other sporting purposes. > >"The way they wrote the regulations banned everything. This isn't what they >intended to do, but that's what they wrote down in the regulations," said >NRA lobbyist Steve Helsley of Lockyer's regulation drafters. "This is >clearly Larry and Moe doing gun control." > >The state Department of Justice on Dec. 29 issued its proposed regulations, >which, Bararikan said, are subject to change after public hearings next >month. > >Under California's new assault weapons law, which took effect on Saturday, a >variety of semiautomatic firearms are banned in California, if they include >such generic military features as a "conspicuously protruding pistol grip," >flash suppressor, folding stock or are easily concealed. > >The Legislature left it to Lockyer to define a "conspicuously protruding" >pistol grip, often a signature feature of assault guns that allows the >shooter to hold the weapon in one hand at the hip and spray fire rapidly. > >But Helsley and dealers complained that definitions proposed by the >department were so tightly drawn that they classified many center-fire, >semiautomatic hunting rifles with a detachable ammunition magazine as an >outlawed assault weapon. > >In a letter to Lockyer, Shirley Andrews, president of Turner's, said the >regulations left her with two "bad choices." > >"We can sell the rifles that we think should not be covered by any >reasonable definition and thereby risk arrest and the loss of our business," >she said. "Or we can sell no semiautomatic rifles at all and go out of >business." > >She appealed to Lockyer for advice in complying with the "vexing" >regulations. Ortiz, her spokesman, said Wednesday that no reply had been >received. > >Ortiz noted that the bill was signed by Gov. Gray Davis last summer but that >the Department of Justice announced the regulations only a few days before >the law took effect, giving dealers and customers virtually no time to make >sales adjustments. > >"In effect, they're saying, 'We made a law and we don't know what we are >enforcing, but we'll tell you when You get there,'" Ortiz said. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 09:15:20 -0600 From: "Rick Kokiw" Subject: Firearms Registration All of the hoopla aside about the new gun registry, I am impressed at = their efficiency. Having held albeit a currently expired FAC I have been = a holder of one since their inception circa 1976. Like some of the past = ones I let my last one expire. Two months ago I sent in a new PAL but = haven't heard squat yet. At the same time I sent in renewals for = restricted and prohibited guns. Yes folks, even weapons registered have = to be registered. I called the CFC on this one because I couldn't find = the forms at my local Post Office. Likewise, the PAL application was not = available. The POL application was readily available. Living in a remote = Northern location the only recourse I had was to download the forms from = their website so that I could be assured of getting them. The = facilitator was most gracious in informing me about having to = re-register my registered firearms.=20 As mentioned, I registered my guns decades ago but have to re-register = them and re-verify what the Provincial Firearms Officer put on the = originals. In all cases that was the info supplied by the seller or gun = provider. What I did learn and it is important that on a semi or auto = action pistol the barrell length includes the bolt or breech block. A = revolver includes the total barrell length upto and not including the = revolving magazine as opposed to a rifle which includes the full barrel = length up to and including the chamber to the cartridge face. MY Savage = 270 is listed as a 17" barrell but when the bullet is in there it is = actually 20". Or..... this is how I interpreted it. Somehow the lands = have become a part of the barrell. Anyways, two months later I still haven't heard anything from the CFC. = The last restricted and prohibited licenses took 3 weeks from an office = which probably cost taxpayers a million a year. The new improved Y2K = office is quickly inching up to a billion dollars with no realistic end = cost. An article in today's Digest was on the Toronto shooting with an airgun. = Tomorrow's headlines will be about a BB gun and the day after a = slingshot. I have a sense of humour though and I've yet to see = catapults, potatoe guns, spit guns, nail guns, staple guns and any other = guns being put on the restricted list. Squeeze tubes of toothpaste must = be the next for Wendy Cookier and gang. Love having a gun but seldom use them. This is a description of most = recreational hunters, myself included. On deep woods fishing trips I = always have a gun...I'm not afraid of black bears but they can be = dangerous with cubs. If it means me or a bear..no contest....bear down = and I'm shaken up but still fishing. I'd feel bad about the bear but my = wife and children would feel one hell of a lot worse. The goodie people = would rather see me down. I would love to see their reaction when a bear = struts around their home eating their politically correct poodle. It = happens where I live. A neighbour a streeet away had a bear break into = their summer porch. Not satisfied he tried to break into the house. By = the time Natural Resources personnel arrived the bear was gone. The next = day it was back with intent...Said bear was put down. Polls are = conducted to urban respondents for polls which guarantee results they = want, never to residents in an area affected by these oversize rodents. = Urban residents haven't ever seen anything worse than the next door = neighbour chasing the next door's pussy from peeing on his shrubs. With = all their good intent I would like to salute all the goody-goody people = that are forcing law abiding Canadians to register their guns and wish = them luck when we are disarmed..May Annie and Wendy have a happy = break-in.=20 No matter what we do, I honestly believe Bill C-68 will be upheld by the = Supreme Court, but, with recommendations to ammending the gun = registration requirements. The life and liberty crap is US-bs. What is = in question is our right to own property under the Canadian Constitution = which guarantees Canadians of the right to protect their property...all = non-withstanding clauses aside. Essentially I and most Canadians including gun owners have no real = objection to gun control as the most recent polls indicate and if there = is a cost for this then so-be-it. That is though if the legislation will = curb killing. Stats unfortunately prove different. Most disturbing = though is that the stats orignally provided to Allen Rock were false on = which he proposed C-68 and included gun control in the omni-bus bill. = Being a politician he jumped on it without verifying the facts relying = on the DOJ for accurate info. They got a number of firearm kills and = went from there without verifying what were suicides, murders = committted by all means. Recent gangland slayings have not been done = with registered guns. rkokiww@cancom.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 09:15:23 -0600 From: Marcel Boudreau Subject: Imporation of an Airsoft gun What hoops must I go through to import a single shot airsoft gun? It is a pellet firing (little round plastic bb) gun with a muzzle velocity less than 500 FPS. What should I tell the US shipper to mark on the package? I'd like to buy one before they are banned by our government. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 09:15:29 -0600 From: "Alan Harper" Subject: Ontario Application for Collector Status Here's something interesting from the Ontario CFO, an Application for Collector Status! There's 1. a covering letter, 2. 4 pages to fill out and 3. 5 more pages of Firearms Act and/or regulations. - ---------------------------------------------------- 1. Covering letter. Dear Mr. Harper: Please complete the enclosed questionnaire and forward it back to the address above attention "Firearms Officers" and one of the officers will process it. Please call back in about 4 weeks time to find out if you have obtained collector's status. etc., blah, blah - ---------------------------------------------------- 2. The application, page 1 name, address, date of birth, license #, etc. - ----------------------- Under the "Conditions of Transferring Firearms and Other Weapons Regulations" made pursuant to the Firearms Act - Section 3(b)(ii) requires that a transferee of a restricted firearm or a handgun referred to in Section 12(6) to form part of a gun collection must provide signed consent to the periodic, inspection conducted in a reasonable manner, of the premises in which the restricted firearms or handguns are kept. I hereby provide my consent for such periodic inspections.___________________ - ----------------------- Under the "Conditions of Transferring Firearms and Other Weapons Regulations" made pursuant to the Firearms Act - Section 3(b)(iii) requires that a transferee of a restricted firearm or a handgun referred to in Section 12(6) to form part of a gun collection must provide details of the requirements set out in the "Storage, Display, Transportation and Handling of Firearms by Individuals Regulations". I hereby acknowledge receipt of a copy of the above noted regulations and am aware of their content______________________________ - ----------------------- Under the "Conditions of Transferring Firearms and Other Weapons Regulations" made pursuant to the Firearms Act - Section 3(c) requires that a transferee of a "prohibited firearm described in one of the subsections 12(2) to (6) or (8) of the Act to form part of a gun collection, the transferee shall provide the chief firearms officer with the number of a registration certificate issued issued to the transferee for a prohibited firearm that fall within the description of such a firearm. Registration Number________________ Date of Registration: Day: Month: Year - ----------------------- Status Approved: __________________________Firearms Officer Date: - --------------------------------------------------- 2. The application, page 2 Under the "Conditions of Transferring Firearms and Other Weapons Regulations" may (sic) pursuant to the Firearms Act - Section 3(b)(i) requires that a transferee who wishes to acquire a firearm or restricted handgun referred to in Section 12(6) to form part of a gun collection of the transferee must provide the chief firearms officer with information regarding the transferee's knowledge of the historical, technological or scientific characteristics that relate to or distinguish the restricted firearms or handgun that he or she possesses. To establish this criteria, the following questions are used for a basis of the determination of a gun collector. (each of the following questions has 3 or 4 blank lines to enter the info - AH) What type of firearms to (sic) you wish to collect? Why do you want to collect these specific firearms? What is the historical significance that relate to or distinguish these types of firearms? What is the scientific significance that relate to or distinguish these types of firearms? What is the technological significance that relate to or distinguish these types of firearms? Are these firearms still being manufactured? - --------------------------------------------- 2. the application, page 3 (continuation of questions - AH) Do these firearms come in different calibres? What type of ammunition can be used with these firearms? Can you describe the operation of these firearms? Do you have any concern with periodic inspections? How do you plan to store your firearms? What records do you plan to keep in relation to your firearm collections? Do you belong to any collectors' associations? - --------------------------------------------- 2. the application, page 4 (continuation of questions - AH) Do you subscribe to or regularly read any periodicals or magazines relating to firearms? Do you attend gun shows? Signed:_____________________ Date: Day Month Year - --------------------------------------------- 3. there are 5 pages of rules and regulations, on blurry third generation photocopies. ========================== Well, there it is. Comments? Bye. Al. SI VIS PACEM PARA BELLUM ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #247 **********************************