Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 12:12:22 -0600 Message-Id: <200001131812.MAA18315@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca> X-Authentication-Warning: broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca: majordomo set sender to owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca using -f From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #250 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Thursday, January 13 2000 Volume 03 : Number 250 In this issue: [none] Re: Great site muzzle Velocity online Summary of CBC Program "Shooting Holes in the Gun Laws" RCMP covert work at risk AOL is antigun CILA Sign Campaign Package Re: [alert] CBC TV Ottawa : Mon Jan 10, 6 pm Firearms program already paying dividends N.B. gun argument a legal long shot ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 10:49:59 -0600 From: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: [none] > From: acardin Subject: Peter Kearns Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca > sadly i must advise you all that peter has suffered a heart attack > in England! He is expected back in Canada within two weeks. I have > no information on the severity of the attack but trust He has not > sustained any permanent damage! > > Gordon > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 10:49:48 -0600 From: mike Subject: Re: Great site > > Yes, this is a good site, however the 'gun control' issue is driven by > media bias and propoganda rather than " intelligent debate of firearms > issues". If the legislative process had anything to do with "intelligent > debate of firearms issues", we wouldn't have this 'gun control' problem. > > mike ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 10:49:52 -0600 From: Damian R Kanarek Subject: muzzle Velocity > > Hi, > > What's this I hear about a minimum muzzle velocity/energy? Are these idiots on drugs? When shooting air pistol in a competition (like in the OLYMPICS, Wendy) you don't want to have very high velocity.... The pellet has stability problems at high speeds, doesn't it? > > Whose brilliant idea was this, and do we now get a list of 'good' > low power air pistols we can train with for the Olympics, much like the list of 'good' short barreled .32 guns? > > Are they going to prohibit and confiscate the thousands of air pistols > out there now? > > Damian Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 10:49:51 -0600 From: acardin Subject: online > > I have a new ISP - and will be subscribed to the digest shortly! > Apologies to anyone that did not get an answer to their mail - my > former ISP cut off a day earlier than I had planned! Please note my > new addy! Gordon Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 10:49:52 -0600 From: "Tom Zinck" Subject: Summary of CBC Program "Shooting Holes in the Gun Laws" > Summary of CBC Newsweek Program > > "Shooting Holes in the Gun Laws" > > Jan 10, 2000, 6:28 pm EST > CBC TV, Ottawa > > Reporter : Arthur Lewis > > Guests : > > Brian Ford: Chief of Police, Ottawa Carleton Regional Police > Wendy Cukier : Coalition for Gun Control > Barbara Pioro : Ottawa Area Firearms Officer > Steve Sullivan : Canadian Resource Center for Victims of Violence > > Comments can be left at the CBC Ottawa Viewer Talkback line at > 613-724-5040, or newsday@ottawa.cbc.ca > > My thoughts : > > The coroner's inquest into the OC Transpo shooting in Ottawa last year > started this week. This CBC TV program posed the question : "How can > mentally ill people be stopped from having firearms?". All people > interviewed basically said that laws should be introduced to > force doctors to contact police if their patient is mentally unstable and a > possible danger to be sure that any firearms the patient may have access to > are seized. Viewers were led to think that the police are not doing > background checks and calling references because > of a lack of resources and because the current Firearms Act does not require > it. > > It is tragically ironic that if less money was spent on registration, and > more on programs like the PFCS, that lives could be saved. This was also the > first time I ever (shudder) almost agreed with Wendy Cukier. I wonder if > she would realizes that the PFCS would help address her concerns ? > > I was disappointed that the CBC did NOT interview the NFA, OHA or any other > pro-firearm organisation. I wonder why ? > > Also I was quite surprised that Barbara Pioro admitted on TV > that the RCMP was NOT calling references and checking applications > properly as required !!!!! Sounds like a law-suit waiting to happen. > > Here are some quotes that I transcribed : > > "Certainly psychologists and physicians who are treating people for various > forms of mental illness, chronic depression and so on should be making it > their business to find out whether or not there are guns nearby." > - Wendy Cukier > > "Very often it's a member or the family, the immediate family or friends and > associates who are both aware that a person is potentially a risk and also > that they have access to > firearms" > - Wendy Cukier > > "It would be beneficial if the appropriate legislation were passed that > would compel doctors to inform police of patients who are, in their belief, > a potential danger to the community or themselves" > - Brian Ford > > > Interviewer : "There is no check to make sure they haven't lied on the > application?" > Barbara Pioro : "That's right" > > "We definitely will need more resources to set higher standards for police > to do the checks" > - Steve Sullivan > > > > -Tom > Reform, OHA, NFA, ARRA, JPFO, NRA, GOA > http://www.comnet.ca/~tzinck > ICQ#:4027168 > Frustrate a Liberal : Lease a gun today ! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 18:47:13 -0600 From: jim davies Subject: RCMP covert work at risk > Read the following in the Ottawa Citizen online: > > [Headline] RCMP covert work at risk > > Undercover operations pressured by few > recruits, old technology > > ...The RCMP employs trained operators, with > service ranging from three to 35 > years, who assume false identities to probe drug > networks, smuggling and > other crimes. However, attrition, transfers and > personal circumstances have > seen their numbers dwindle. > > The report says the force's "varied operational > needs" require a stable of > undercover operators with greater diversity in > age, sex and cultural > background as well as knowledge of specialized > areas such as firearms and > white-collar > crime... ^^^^^^^^ > > It seems like the Lieberal's enforcers are looking to peel off > even more of their scarce resources > to increase micromanagement of firearms. Probably a good idea as > their utopian policies have made guns > a growth area for criminals, much as they have done with drugs > and cigarettes. Watch out for a well educated, bilingual, > sensitive person of gender standing awkwardly, highlighted Gun > Digest in briefcase, gawking uncomfortably at a gunstore near > you...One wonders where they will hide the FART disk. > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 18:47:15 -0600 From: "Walter Hornby" Subject: AOL is antigun > AOL DECLARES GUNS PORNOGRAPHY > > Sharp G&A readers have noticed > that Jim Supica, owner of the Old > Town Station Dispatch Ltd > occasionally loans us an antique > firearm for our photo layouts. He is a > Federal Firearms License holder and > runs an honest, above-board business. > It must have come as a complete > surprise when American Online > summarily removed his Web site from > its system and sent the following e-mail > to his account address. AOL wrote. "We > have become aware of a web page site > that is part of your account. This web > page violates Hometown AOL`s > Community Standards, which prohibits > sexually explicit graphics, links to other > sites which Hometown deems offensive, > harassment. the use vulgar or sexually > oriented language, discussion of illegal > activities, and /or other activities that > may impair the enjoyment of our > community members > `'We have placed a note of this > incident on your account history and > consider this a first warning. We have > removed all the files from your web > page / ftp site. A second occurrence will > result in termination of your account > with no chance of reactivation' > Although AOL has a right to say yes > or no to the types of web pages it > permits. it seems a bit strong to call gun > dealers pornographies. I've heard from > other dealers who got the same form > letter and no-warning boot from AOL > Supica said.:;I mainly want to get on > with my business with the least possible > hassle. AL decision to dump gun > dealer sites did nut bother me as much > as the manner in which they did it." > > Thanks to Bill Clede of the Shotgun > News for the story and to the > Hodgdon Powder Co. for forwarding > the information. > > Guns & Ammo / February 2000 issue.. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 18:47:17 -0600 From: Al Dorans Subject: CILA Sign Campaign Package Dear Firearms Owner, A FED UP III Rally is coming! The debate is not over! The date, however, has yet to be determined. Timing is critical. Upcoming events to be considered are the United Alternative and Reform conventions near the end of January and the Supreme Court Challenge thereafter. At any time a surprise election could be called. In the interim, we are proceeding to implement the CILA Sign Campaign program IMMEDIATELY. As you may recall, the CILA Firearms Sign Campaign is a proactive program designed to protect the freedoms, heritage, rights and property of Canada's 7 million firearms owners. It has been constructed to raise public awareness about the dangers inherent in Bill C-68 and to mobilize gun owners toward political action. The campaign works toward reversing the substantial damage inflicted on the firearms community by anti-gun spin-doctoring. The main feature of the sign program will be the production of packages of educational/media signs. Each package will contain about 36 brightly painted, reusable, permanent and plastic signs (3' X 3'), similar to those used at the FED UP II Rally. Each package will be sold at cost and shipped to gun clubs, wildlife associations and firearms organizations, etc. that order the package(s). Each package will cost about $120 plus shipping charges. Tentatively, on one side of each sign there will be a small C-68 (Slash) logo and a large information byte relating to C-68. Two examples would be "The Home Invasion Bill" and "The Criminal Friendly Bill". On the reverse side of each sign will be 2 small logos, "We remember" and "Je me souviens". The information bytes on this side will remind voters of the 36 greatest political disasters. "The GST Lie "(Chretien) and "Excessive Liberal Taxation" (37X)" are 2 considerations. A draft copy of the 72 themes was placed on the Canadian Firearms Digest months ago. This present posting invites gun owners, once again, to approve, modify, delete and suggest additions to the enclosed list. The final selections will be determined by the Ottawa FED UP Rally Group, acting on behalf of the recreational firearms community. This program needs to be designed, ready and in place well before the federal election. That time is NOW. Hence, final adjustments to the signs are being made. Our first production run will commence as soon as possible and distribution will take place. Accompanying each package will be several copies of an educational/media kit explaining the 72 information bytes briefly. Each of the 72 slogans could be a suitable theme for a written article in a local newspaper. Because of weight and space factors, wooden stakes will be excluded from the packages. The educational sign packages will empower gun organizations to demonstrate actively in the following situations: 1) spontaneous protests outside a Member of Parliament's office; 2) gun rallies in provincial capitals; 3) a millenium firearms rally in Ottawa or before the next federal election; 4) provincial election campaign meetings; 5) federal election campaign meetings; 6) gun shows; 7) other spontaneous protests. Generally speaking, people remember a small percentage of what they hear, a larger percentage of what they see, and an even larger percentage of what they see and hear. The media will gravitate toward the visual messages, especially photographers and television crews. The signs deliver the visual messages and serve as a powerful educational tool. Bill C-68 will be a massive federal election issue because 7 million Canadian firearms owners intend to make it one. Find below a first draft of page 4 of the package. Herein the FED UP group invites your suggestions for the best 72 slogans. FED UP members will consider all ideas, decide on a final product and commence a first production run. Imagine the collective impact of firearms signs in every federal election constituency! These would be significant threads of connection for the RFC throughout Canada. Project administrator for the CILA Firearms Sign Campaign is Karl Schrader. Karl may be contacted by Email: Fax: (613) 828-6967 Phone: (613) 224-2025. Contact Karl NOW to place your order(s) and he will communicate the procedure for payment. Kind regards, Al CILA Firearms Sign Campaign Draft Copy (C-68 With Slash) (We Remember/Je me souviens) 1. The Home Invasion Bill * Scrap the GST Lie (Chretien) 2. The Criminal Friendly Bill * Abolish NAFTA Lie (Chretien) 3. The Obscene Waste of Money Bill * Mulroney Airbus Scandal (Rock) 4. Unsafe Homes, Unsafe Streets * Karate Cretch Assault (Chretien) 5. The Legalized Theft Bill * Pearson Airport Payoff 6. Registration Means Confiscation * Somalia Inquiry and Cover-up 7. Loss of Right to Self Defense * APEC Pepper Spray Attack 8. Guns a Net Benefit to Society * National Debt $600 Billion 9. Theft of Hunting Heritage * Helicopter Scandal (Chretien) 10. Protect our Shooting Freedoms * Feed Starving in Rwanda Disaster 11. Gun Registry a National Mess * $16 Billion Gutting Health Care Scandal 12. Sweep out Justice Bureaucrats * $25M Flag Giveaway (Copps) 13. Militarization of Police Forces * Excessive Government Waste 14. We Want Effective Gun Laws * Broken Liberal Promises 15. Scrap Registry at $150M Lie (Rock) * Runaway Immigration 16. McLellan "Debate is Over" - NOT * Clifford Olson Scandal (Rock) 17. Constitutional & Charter Violations * A Breakdown of Trust (Liberals) 18. The Citizen Control Bill * Excessive Liberal Taxation (37 X) 19. The Recreational Genocide Bill * Cod, Sealing, Trapping Disasters 20. 3 Million New Criminals Jan1/2001 * Atlantic/Pacific Salmon Scandals 21. 40% Non-Compliance Dooms Registry * Canada an Elected Dictatorship 22. Failure to Register=10 Years in Jail* Runaway Special Interest Groups 23. The Canadian Deception Bill * Huge Pension Tax Grabs (Martin) 24. Flawed Polls, Inflated Statistics * Airborne Scandal 25. Violations of Inheritance Laws * Senate No Body for Sober Second Thought 26. No Right to Remain Silent * Sedition Crisis in Quebec Election 27. Orders in Council Bypass Parliament * Withholding Payments to Provinces 28. Guilty Until Proven Innocent * Lower Standard of Living 29. Home Invasions by Swat Teams * Quebec Referendum Sleepwalk 30. Right to Legal Counsel Removed * Krever Tainted Blood Scandal 31. Right to Be Heard Now Denied * Hepatitis C Scandal 32. Destruction of Shooting Sports * Poor, Homeless, Starving Fiascos 33. UN World Disarmament (Axworthy) * Liberal Arrogance and Ignorance 34. Registration Error=5 Years in Jail * MPs Chretien's Puppets 35. Liberal Harassment of Gun Owners * 1500 Violent Criminals Immigrate 36. 1600 Pages of Gun Laws=No Justice * Liberal Social Engineering Fiasco For More Information Contact: Professor Al Dorans Director of Operations, CILA Ottawa Office: 27 Cedar Grove Court Nepean, Ontario K2G 0M4 Phone: (613) 828-8805 Fax: (613) 828-6967 Email: aldorans@magma.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 18:47:12 -0600 From: "B>C>C" Subject: Re: [alert] CBC TV Ottawa : Mon Jan 10, 6 pm > > Hi Tom, > I didn't get the broadcast down here in Aylmer, any chance of getting a > recording? > Thanks, > Brad Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 12:12:01 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Firearms program already paying dividends > PUBLICATION: The Fredericton Daily Gleaner > DATE: 2000.01.11 > SECTION: Editorial > PAGE: A6 > COLUMN: Dear Editor > > Firearms program already paying dividends > > Dear Editor: I am writing in response to the letter by Reform MP Garry > Breitkreuz on Dec.10 ("MP says succes was actually a failure") in which he > makes several erroneous statements about the Firearms Act. > Contrary to Mr. Breitkreuz claims, the old Firearms Acquisition Certificate > (FAC) system couldn't deal with licence problems in a timely fashion, > particularly when public safety was compromised, after they had been issued. > > Therefore the new universal licensing and registration system linked to > police databases was needed. The new system is also proving to be able to > block unsafe gun sales. In fact, it has already blocked 235. This means 235 > guns were kept out of the hands of people who should not have them. > Mr. Breitkreuz asks how many of these will be reversed. The answer is > simple. All 235 blocked sales were blocked for sound and legitimate reasons. > These sales were blocked after a proper investigation concluded that there > were valid public safety reasons to deny the sale. In many cases this has > also led to a revocation of the owner's licence. > Before a licence is issued or a firearm is sold, authorities conduct > extensive background checks on every single applicant. These checks help to > keep firearms out of the hands of persons who should not have them. The > system has also uncovered cases of licence falsification, prior convictions, > recent incidences of criminal and violent activities (including spousal > abuse) and unauthorized sale of firearms. > In all, over 1,050 licences were refused or revoked in our first 12 months > of operation. The refusal and revocation rate is seven times the total of > the past five years. > The accomplishments of Canada's firearms program in its first year is > evidence that it is achieving its goal of ensuring that firearms remain in > the hands of safe, law-abiding owners and out of the hands of individuals > who pose a threat to themselves, their families or their community. > The government's investment in this program is beginning to pay dividends -- > this is just the beginning. > Louis Cormier > Media Relations, Canadian Firearms Centre Ottawa, Ont. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 12:12:01 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: N.B. gun argument a legal long shot > PUBLICATION: The Moncton Times and Transcript > DATE: 2000.01.12 > SECTION: News > PAGE: A2 > COLUMN: Ottawa Insider > BYLINE: Morrison, Campbell > DATELINE: Ottawa > > N.B. gun argument a legal long shot > > Reading the New Brunswick government's arguments against gun control, one is > struck by how irrelevent they really are. > While citizens would form the question in terms of whether gun control is > good or bad public policy - whether the 1995 Firearms Act achieves its > objectives without creating undue hardship - the lawyers in the provincial > Department of Justice don't see it that way. > Instead, they believe the federal government's gun control law is bad public > policy because it tramples on provincial jurisdiction. > "Essentially, these legislative provisions (licensing and registration of > firearms) are not, in pith and substance, criminal law. Their true purpose > and effect is the regulation of the ownership and possession of firearms, > which is legislation pertaining to property and civil rights and exclusively > provincial jurisdiction," the New Brunswick government said in its > submission to the Supreme Court of Canada. Oral arguments are expected to be > heard in the spring. > In this context, there is no room to consider whether gun control actually > helps police fight crime, or whether it simply punishes law-abiding gun > owners. It returns the court to the pre-Charter of Rights and Freedoms era > when constitutional questions almost always centred on jurisdiction: whether > a certain activity was more appropriately within the federal or provincial > realm, according to the 1867 British North America Act. Since the Charter in > 1982, with its focus on the individual over federal-provincial tug-of-wars, > such arguments have fallen out of fashion. > In this case, the registration and licensing of "ordinary firearms," as > opposed to "restricted" or "prohibited" firearms, which the New Brunswick > government accepts as legitimately subject to the Criminal Code, are > considered to be simple matters of property, which citizens already have the > "right" to own. To subject them to the Criminal Code is inappropriate, the > New Brunswick government said. > "The Firearms Act will directly affect a very large number of Canadians," > the provincial submission continued. "It criminalizes an existing state of > affairs. It imposes conditions to retain possession and ownership of > firearms. For cultural reasons that vary from personal security, hunting, to > sentimental attachment to weapons, some Canadians have a very strong > attachment to firearms, any exception or exemption that cannot be explained > clearly within the context of the evil or harm alleged to exist should not > be acceptable as criminal law." > Indeed, the province honed in on the exemptions and exceptions as the > Achilles' heel of the federal law. If the objective is public safety, then > allowing exemptions and exceptions cannot be justified, so the bill is > revealed as flawed and illegal. > "Parliament can enact new crimes and create exceptions or > exemptions. Parliament can as well create regulatory schemes to give greater > detail on how to avoid committing the prohibited act. However, when doing > so, if the exceptions and exemptions erode the general prohibition without a > clear reason, the Act cannot be characterized as criminal law." > Furthermore, the New Brunswick submission argued that the use of fees to > obtain a licence runs counter to the objective of the federal Criminal Code. > > "The payment or non-payment of a fee clearly does not relate to the security > of the public nor does it prevent crime. The non-payment of a fee is not > proof that the owner of a firearm does not want to register it. The > non-payment of a fee is not an indication that the firearm owner is not > qualified or is not of suitable character to be in possession of the > firearm. Yet the non-payment of the fee exposes the firearms owner to > criminal sanctions," said the submission. > Viewed from the other end, the New Brunswick submission added rhetorically, > "Can someone extract oneself from criminality by paying a fee or tax?" > While no effort is made to debate the merits of the legislation on normal > grounds, opponents of the bill really have no other option. The merits were > debated in Parliament in 1994 and 1995. The government, supported by the > Liberal majority in both the Commons and the Senate, bolstered by polls that > showed Canadians overwhelmingly supported gun control, defended the > proposal. There is no way for anyone to get the merit arguments in front of > any court, so the only option left to opponents was to develop the old > jurisdiction argument in an effort to prove the legislation is illegal, and > ask the Supreme Court to strike it down. > It is a long shot at best. > Campbell Morrison is the Times & Transcript's Ottawa bureau chief. His > column, Ottawa Insider, appears every Monday and Friday. He can be reached > at cme@storm.ca. ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #250 **********************************