Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 21:19:42 -0600 Message-Id: <200001170319.VAA16839@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca> X-Authentication-Warning: broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca: majordomo set sender to owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca using -f From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #253 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Sunday, January 16 2000 Volume 03 : Number 253 In this issue: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #252 Self Defense article by Canadian Author Re: Great site Liberty Free Press Jan. 15th 2000 Response to CDN-FIREARMS Digest #252 CILA Sign Campaign CILA: How to Protect Your Gun Rights CILA Letter: "Rock a Breath of Foul Air" Re: Reporting mentally ill.... A comparison of laws Application for testing fwd: (US) Gun Maker Wants No (US) Gun Show Sales (Ruger) - [alert] CILA Sign Campaign Package [alert] CILA Sign Campaign Package [Fwd: BOUNCE cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca: Approval required:] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 13:24:55 -0600 From: jim davies Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #252 We knew years ago the the Conservatives and Liberals were interchangeable. This was reinforced by the disgraceful [even for the senate] actions of the Conservative senators over passing C-68. The most disgusting of all was Conservative Pat Blarney, who pretended to be of open mind until rushing to endorse the Lieberals at the last moment. Then there was the new Quebec provincial liberal leader who was also the former federal conservative leader, etc. etc. Here is the latest proof of interchangeability. The full article is available at the National Post website. "OTTAWA - Stephane Dion, the Intergovernmental Affairs Minister, has offered to meet Joe Clark's divided Conservative caucus in an effort to convince MPs that the Liberal government's referendum legislation should be supported in the best interest of the country. The overture from Mr. Dion was endorsed by Elsie Wayne, the deputy Conservative leader and a strong supporter of the Clarity Act, and is under consideration by Mr. Clark, the leader of the Conservatives." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 13:25:33 -0600 From: "Scott Carpenter" Subject: Self Defense article by Canadian Author An excelent piece on Self Defense by a Canadian author: "Self Defense: A Pro Gun Strategy" by John Orth is at: http://199.60.237.235/articles/article2_01_00.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 19:21:36 -0600 From: "Alan Harper" Subject: Re: Great site > I just found a terrific site in my wanderings on the net > www.guntruths.com it has a wealth of information for the intelligent = > debate of firearms issues. Take a look you will not regret it. > > Regards > John Evers =============== That IS a good site. I copied several pictures and posters. Bye. Al. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 21:04:11 -0600 From: "The Gayders" Subject: Liberty Free Press Jan. 15th 2000 Note especially the articles on self defence and on jury trials... Liberty Free Press Jan. 15th 2000 THE GREAT CANADIAN IDENTITY CRISIS By Scott Carpenter What is a Canadian? Canadians have been asking themselves this very question for as long as we have existed... http://www.libertyfreepress.com/articles/article1_01_00.html SELF DEFENSE: A PRO GUN STRATEGY By John Orth Canadian gun owners are slowly digging our own graves with our timid, apologetic approach to gun rights. Most Canadian gun owners... http://www.libertyfreepress.com/articles/article2_01_00.html HEIL HEALTH By Pierre Lemieux >From the vantage point of a late-twentieth-century observer, the public health policies of the National Socialists who ruled Germany... http://www.libertyfreepress.com/articles/article3_01_00.html REVOLT BY JURY By Michael Miller Suppose government passed a law, and couldn't enforce it... http://www.libertyfreepress.com/articles/article4_01_00.html INDIVIDUALISM AND THE COMMON GOOD By Jonathan Dolhenty, Ph.D. The concept of the "common good" seems to be a problem for many conservatives, libertarians, and individualists... http://www.libertyfreepress.com/articles/article5_01_00.html LA CRISE DE L'ÉTAT ET L'ÉTAT DE CRISE PERMANENT Par Martin Masse Dans ce pays, l'État a depuis longtemps cessé de jouer son rôle primordial... http://www.libertyfreepress.com/articles/article6_01_00.html THE SUCCESS IT IS TODAY By Steven Martinovich Last month Alberta Treasurer Stockwell Day was considering withdrawing the province from the Canada Pension Plan... http://www.libertyfreepress.com/articles/article7_01_00.html LA FIN DU PROTECTIONNISME CULTUREL Par Gilles Guénette Dans l'édition de janvier 2000 du magazine L'actualité, GuyCrevier, un "incontournable... http://www.libertyfreepress.com/articles/article8_01_00.html DEFENDING SCIENCE FROM THE BROWN SHIRTS By Andrew Bates Belinda Harvey's recent arguments for the so-called 'precautionary principle' - which 'principle' she never clearly defines... http://www.libertyfreepress.com/articles/article9_01_00.html Current Issue: Jan. 15th Next Issue: Feb. 15th ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 11:18:25 -0600 From: Adrian Pardy Subject: Response to CDN-FIREARMS Digest #252 I had particular intrest in Digest #252 because of its articles concerning Bill-C68 and the lies told by the government. George W. S. Adair article has inspired me to do as he is doing. Every time I recieve the digest, i am sending a e-mail to my political representatives; and i hope everyone else will. If you would rather not have your name known, please, send me your thoughts at quincy@nfld.com and I will send it along with my response and exclude your name in that e-mail. Also, let your friends how dont get this e-mail know about the situation and what is being said in the digest. If they have a response, i'll be more than happy to send their thoughts as well. The government is really trying to screw us over as Canadians. I recently watched a show concerning the registration and turning in of certain firearms. According to this show, crimes have actuall increased. Criminals are not afraid to rob someones house in the day now that you have to lock you guns up, unloaded in a safe place, with the ammo locked up as well. Criminals are not afraid because it will take the resident of a house too long to get ready to protect himself. He/she has to take out the gun, find the ammo, load it, then go after the criminal. Its rediculous. Those of you in the states who get this. Guns are part of you constitution or whatever its called, but that can be changed. start your fight now. This is to everyone across the world who gets this e-mail. Don't support any politican who is against firearms. Guns dont kill people.... people kill people. Why should we support someone who is more concerned with getting ride of a relatively low problem when there are bigger problems such as a huge national debt and countries who cant afford to eat. Next election... i am going to make my views public. Gun Control will be a big topic if eveyone does their part and expresses their view to ther MP and city representitives. I am a competition shooter, air gun that is. It has not reached me yet, but its starting to. To improve my accuracy, i need to purchase a gun that shoots over 500 feet per second, thats a firearm. To do so, i have to spend my money on an FAC and registration before i can even purchase the gun. The government is getting rediculous and i won't stand for it. Do you part, don't lose what you deserve. A concerned shooter Adrian ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 11:19:31 -0600 From: Al Dorans Subject: CILA Sign Campaign CILA / ICAL Defending Canada's Heritage - --------------------------------------------- Dear Firearms Owners, Thanks kindly for the positive and many constructive suggestions, so far, for the CILA Sign Campaign. Placing a draft before the RFC and inviting comments seems a sensible way to allow meaningful input and a more representative final product. Mike Bonner expressed relief that our tentative slogans avoided "Say No to Gun Control". As far as I know, this was not an officially endorsed sign for either rally. It may have originated from a private individual or group. In FED UP I, a common theme was "Criminal Control, NOT More Gun Control". With 1600 pages of firearms legislation, we certainly do not need more. Most RFC members seem to favor reasonable and effective legislation that reduces crimes and saves lives. To help in selecting the best signs, we have a team of FED UP evaluators. Thanks to Randy and Angie Schmidt for the time they took to present their thoughts. By the way, "Recreational Genocide" refers to the arbitrary and systematic intent to extinguish Canada's entire recreational shooting sports industry. The secret United Nations conferences in Cairo (1996) and Buenos Aires (1998) make it absolutely clear that world disarmament is the Liberal agenda and Canada is the role model. The many worthwhile suggestions from the Schmidt's will be forwarded to FED UP committee members. Project administrator for the CILA Firearms Sign Campaign is Karl Schrader. Karl may be contacted by Email: Fax: (613) 828-6967 Phone: (613) 224-2025. Contact Karl NOW to place your order(s) and he will arrange the procedure for payment. Professor Al Dorans Director of Operations, Ottawa Office Canadian Institute for Legislative Action / Institut Canadien pour l'Action Législative National Office: P.O.Box 44030, 600 Grandview St. S. Oshawa, ON. L1H 8P4 Ph: (905) 571-2150 Fax: (905) 436-7721 mailto:teebee@sprint.ca Ottawa Office: 27 Cedar Grove Crt. Nepean, ON. K2G 0M4 Ph: (613) 828-8805 Fax: (613) 828-6967 mailto:aldorans@magma.ca Home: http://www.cila.org A proud member of the World Forum on the Future of Sport Shooting Activities / Forum du Monde sur le Futur d'Activités des Sports des Armes à Feu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 11:20:12 -0600 From: Al Dorans Subject: CILA: How to Protect Your Gun Rights CILA / ICAL Defending Canada's Heritage - --------------------------------------------- Dear Firearms Owner, To kick start the new millenium, here is a checklist of what you can do to protect your firearms rights. In particular, leaders in gun clubs are challenged to mobilize 7 million members of the recreational firearms community toward political activism. 1. Obtain a computer, get on the Internet and subscribe to the Canadian Firearms Digest (Free). At the very least, form a small group in which at least one member has email capability for the group. The RFC is in an information war and we need to communicate quickly and inexpensively. Generally, snail mail, faxes and telephone calls are too costly, time-consuming and slow for primary national communication. At the local implementation level, they may be highly worthwhile. The preferred method of communication is email. 2. Form a small group of 8-10 people. Meet regularly to discuss what you can do to protect your disappearing gun freedoms. 3. Discuss and join selected firearms organizations and political parties to inform yourselves and to elect politicians who will defend your rights. 4. Consult the Digest or the CILA website to download and implement the following CILA programs: * Firearms Writing Project (3000 writers educating the public) * Media Accountability Project (Honoring the best; identifying the worst) * National Sign Campaign (Visual reminders of political disasters) * Political Activism Project (Building power at the grass roots level) * Make Annie Fix It Campaign (Filing gun registry complaints) * Community Support Program (Improving the public image of gun owners) Feel free to contact me if you need assistance or wish to share successes. Professor Al Dorans Director of Operations, Ottawa Office ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 11:20:47 -0600 From: Al Dorans Subject: CILA Letter: "Rock a Breath of Foul Air" CILA / ICAL Defending Canada's Heritage - --------------------------------------------- CILA Letter to the Toronto Sun Editor "Rock a Breath of Foul Air" Re. "Rock to the rescue" (Jan. 12), Linda Williamson suggests that Allan Rock is either trying to be an anti-cigarette crusader or trying to breathe fresh air into his political career. Wait a cotton pickin' minute! Lest we forget, at the FED UP I Rally on September 22nd, 1994 Justice Minister Rock promised 21,000 Canadians that when Bill C-68 on gun control was enacted it would focus on criminals and not law-abiding citizens. When introduced in the House, 7 pages focussed on criminals while 117 pages legislated against responsible gun owners. Lie #1. During the same rally, Rock promised "Registration does not mean confiscation." At Arnprior, he later reversed himself stating that gun registration does mean confiscation. He then proceeded to confiscate 58% (580,000) of all the known handguns in Canada's handgun registry, for no valid reason. Lie #2. Subsequently, Rock promised that criminal hackers would never be able to break into a new computerized gun registry. Given repeated computer breaches at the Pentagon, North American Air Defense System (NORAD) and the RCMP handgun registry, this was unbelievable. Lie #3. Rock promised that Bill C-68 would cost $85 million over 5 years and scrapped if it ever reached $150 million. To date the Liberals have admitted to $316 million with 172 pages of additional costs hidden from taxpayers by invoking cabinet secrecy. Lie #4. For just cause, firearms owners distrust Allan Rock and the Chretien Liberals. Is it any wonder why politicians rank at the bottom of occupations people trust least? As long as Canadians remain gullible and massively indifferent to such falsehoods and trickery, they will get no better than what they deserve. This is not a breath of fresh air. It is foul. It disqualifies Rock for leadership and as a servant of the people. Professor Al Dorans Director of Operations, Ottawa Office ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 11:25:03 -0600 From: "David & Trudy Rose" Subject: Re: Reporting mentally ill.... Kate Johnson makes a good point. Psychiatrists are already required = to report situations where there is risk of physical abuse to children, = in the patient's care, so there IS a precedent. I believe physicians = MIGHT have the right to refuse to ask the question(or at least to report = the answer) based on doctor/patient confidence. That'll be yet one more = issue for the courts to hash out! =20 There is also another option for troubled gun owners, other than = forgoing treatment. Any doctor who asks the question,"Do you have = access to firearms?", should immediately have its idiocy pointed out: " = If I'm a danger to myself or others by virtue of the fact that I own = guns, I'm just as great a danger behind the wheel of my vehicle, or in = possession of the kitchen knives at home!" Any psychiatrist who can't = see the logic of that statement, nor realize that risk must be evaluated = on a case-by-case basis, is (in my view,) something less than a = competent professional and thus nobody I'd want treating me anyway! The choice of which doctor to see is still the patient's. If you = don't like the questions asked, you have the right to NOT answer. If = the doctor takes exception to that,.... find another doctor! Confusion to our enemies! David=20 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 13:28:34 -0600 From: "Mike Ringer" Subject: A comparison of laws As a Deputy Sheriff for the province of BC, I spend a lot of my time providing court security and thus have listened to more trials than I care to remember. I just wanted to point out that this section of a previous posting: > · illegally seized evidence is admissible in Canadian courts, so Canadians > have no protection from warrantless police searches. Is very misleading. Now I'm not naieve enough to think that illegally seized evidence has never been admitted into a trial, but this post would lead one to believe that it always is. I have seen tons of evidence of this nature tossed out by the judge, and on the one or two occasions I can remember where suspect evidence is admitted, the judge always gives it less weight than evidence properly obtained. I have also seen plenty of complete casses thrown out because of warrantless searches. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 14:47:39 -0600 From: Kelly Weiss Subject: Application for UPDATE: Well, I received my new AUTHORIZATION TO TRANSPORT RESTRICTED OR PROHIBITED FIREARMS (INCLUDING PROHIBITED HANDGUNS) last week. In the "CONDITIONS AND DESTINATION(S)" box it shows: "The firearm must be transported by a reasonably direct route." From: To: All approved Gun Clubs & Ranges TIMES OF TRANSPORT - From: 00:00 To: 23:59 Although I never did write any firearm particulars in Section B on the JUS 679 application, on the ATT I received it lists all firearms registered to me. You may recall I submitted my JUS 679 - APPLICATION FOR AUTHORIZATION TO TRANSPORT with the following notation in Section B: "PLEASE NOTE: THIS IS AN APPLICATION FOR A RENEWAL; IT IS NOT AN "AB INITIO" APPLICATION FOR AN AUTHORIZATION TO TRANSPORT." "ALSO PLEASE NOTE: THIS IS A DEMAND, MADE UNDER SECTION 337 OF THE CRIMINAL CODE OF CANADA, FOR A RENEWAL OF THE 1998/1999 PERMIT TO CARRY/AUTHORIZATION TO TRANSPORT (PHOTOCOPY ENCLOSED) WITH THE SAME TERMS AND CONDITIONS THAT WERE ON THE 1998 AUTHORIZATION TO TRANSPORT." (refer: Digest V3 #227) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 17:17:15 -0600 From: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: testing hi everyone just testing..ian's mum.betty ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 19:55:10 -0600 From: "Rod Regier" Subject: fwd: (US) Gun Maker Wants No (US) Gun Show Sales (Ruger) - don't know how Cdn dealers are affected Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca This article appears at http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/a/AP-Gun-Show-Sales.html January 15, 2000 Gun Maker Wants No Gun Shows Sales Filed at 3:06 p.m. EST By The Associated Press DENVER (AP) -- The nation's largest gun manufacturer has begun instructing distributors not to sell its firearms at gun shows, apparently the first policy of its kind, The Denver Post reported Saturday. In contracts with distributors this year, Sturm, Ruger & Co. states that its shotguns, rifles and handguns be supplied only ``to federally licensed firearms dealers selling exclusively from their regular place of business,'' the newspaper said. Millions of guns are sold or traded every year at an estimated 4,400 gun shows nationwide. Federally licensed gun dealers must conduct background checks on gun-show customers, but unlicensed private dealers are not required to conduct the checks. ``This is a new policy that no other manufacturer has made. I think what they're doing is remarkable,'' said Tony DiChario, a Ruger distributor in Rochester, N.Y. In a notice to about 5,000 retailers, his company, AmChar Wholesale, has asked them to adhere to the new policy. ``Please do not display or sell any Ruger firearms at any gun shows. Ruger firearms must only be sold from licensed retail dealer establishments,'' the notice says. Unregulated sales at gun shows became a target of criticism after weapons sold without background checks at the shows were used in the Columbine High School massacre. Fifteen people, including the two gunmen, died in the attack last spring. But Colorado's largest firearms dealer questioned why customers who pass background checks should be treated differently at gun shows than at stores. ``I think it's absolutely ludicrous,'' said Dave Anver, owner of Dave's Guns in the Denver suburb of Aurora. ``We're talking about federally licensed entities that do background checks.'' Sturm, Ruger, based in Fairfield, Conn., has made and sold more than 13 million guns since it was founded 50 years ago. It ranked as the top gun manufacturer in the United States last year. Company officials declined to comment on their reasons for the new policy. Sturm, Ruger remains a defendant in lawsuits filed by 28 cities and counties seeking to recover the costs of gun-related violence, according to the Post. Other gunmakers, including California-based Davis Industries, have taken steps to limit their liability. Davis, a company that specialized in cheap handguns, filed for bankruptcy protection in May. And Colt's Manufacturing Co. announced last fall that it was curtailing its production of handguns. - -- Rod Regier mailto:rsr@hfx.andara.com (902) 453-4733 Halifax, N.S., Canada Lat: 44.6415, Long: -63.6174 Opinions expressed are mine alone. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 20:33:41 -0600 From: D Manson Subject: [alert] CILA Sign Campaign Package Gentlemen, lets be accurate with our plea for public support and info. Bill C-68 is now the young offenders act. If you come out against that you''ll not get much support from the public. As far as legal gun owners in Canada goes, freedom stops at the border. We're guilty till we prove we are innocent to purchase. Look at each time you purchase another gun. No matter what you have you start the process over again, wait , check, wait , check. We need some cases won in favor of the legal owners. So much is being blow off over the phone without a chance to go in front of a magistrate( as per the act), they should have to follow their own rules. Has CILA considered an association with the NFA. We need to combine more of our resorces. Mr Tomlison and co. are our best hope for owners. Keep up the good work. Regs. Dale ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 20:34:40 -0600 From: D Manson Subject: [alert] CILA Sign Campaign Package Gentlemen, I was recently informed that C-68 is now the young offenders act. If this is acurate lets not parade against the wrong bill. Regs Dale. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 20:26:28 -0700 From: Ian Parkinson Subject: [Fwd: BOUNCE cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca: Approval required:] From: mike Subject: Re: [alert] CILA Sign Campaign Package Farmers, fishermen, miners, medical practioners, etc.... every special intrest group is taking the govt to task for inadequate funding, but not one of them ever mentions the millions wasted on the gun registration scam.. WHY NOT!! That's one of the main reasons we are losing. When will the firearms organizations who want our membership dollars expand the audience for their message beyond the converted? Why aren't the alphabet soup organizations who claim to support us lobbying the unions and other organizations hit by govt funding cuts. CILA, NFA, LUFA, ect ARE YOU LISTENING?? We won't make much progress until other groups start complaining about the money wasted on the gun registry. mike ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #253 **********************************