Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 07:44:10 -0600 Message-Id: <200001211344.HAA00694@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca> X-Authentication-Warning: broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca: majordomo set sender to owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca using -f From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #259 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Friday, January 21 2000 Volume 03 : Number 259 In this issue: Prisoner pulled a homemade gun on a guard Ex-cop pleads guilty to weapons charge This is textbook gun-lobby stuff Registration Re: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #257 Re: Gary Gould Rant CFO Re: Control Issues Logic vs Emotion Firearms: the SQ is at the end of its rope ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 07:46:08 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Prisoner pulled a homemade gun on a guard PUBLICATION: Montreal Gazette DATE: 2000.01.20 EDITION: FINAL SECTION: News PAGE: A13 BYLINE: KERRY POWELL SOURCE: Edmonton Journal DATELINE: EDMONTON Courthouse security queried after prisoner pulls zip gun An Edmonton judge says he's concerned about courthouse security after a prisoner pulled a homemade gun on a guard this week. The incident once again raises the question of whether metal-detectors are needed at the court, which ``stands at the centre of disputes which are intensely passionate to the parties involved,'' Associate Chief Justice Allan Wachowich of Court of Queen's Bench said yesterday. In a luncheon speech to the Canadian Club of Edmonton, Wachowich asked, ``Should the court be an armed fortress? Should we have the public access that we now have? The debate goes on.'' On Monday, a guard was escorting a handcuffed prisoner from provincial court back to the basement cellblock when he pulled out a zip gun, a homemade weapon capable of firing a projectile. City police said the guard was ordered to get on his knees and turn over the keys to the handcuffs, but the man was unable to unlock himself. He held out his hands and told the guard to do it. Once the guard was close enough, he overpowered the man and took away the , which turned out to be a fake. Wachowich also mentioned another judge who was the victim of threats and whose home phone was tampered with after he ruled on a recent case. ``There is nothing more chilling to a judge - and it's happened to me - to receive a realistic death threat, and we have to live with that.'' If security concerns continue to increase, the entrances to Edmonton's courthouse - like those in Vancouver, Winnipeg and other cities - may one day be like walking through airport security, Wachowich said. The judge's position seems to have shifted since April, when a similar security problem prompted him to say metal detectors were unnecessary at the courthouse. On April 8, 1999, a man waving a knife got within metres of the judges' chambers. Less than a half hour earlier, nurses had heard him threaten a Queen's Bench judge as he left a city hospital. City police pepper-sprayed and arrested the man outside the courthouse after he fled security guards who had confronted him in a restricted area. ------------------------------ Date: 2000.01.19 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Ex-cop pleads guilty to weapons charge Ex-cop pleads guilty to weapons charge A former Regina police officer pleaded guilty to two charges of unsafe storage of firearms Monday. Provincial Court Judge Martin Irwin granted Glenn Douglas Parker a conditional discharge, coupled with three months probation. Parker, who was a police sergeant at the time of the offence in September, 1998, must also forfeit his firearms. "He is also prohibited from having in his possession any firearms for three years from this point," Crown prosecutor Anthony Gerein said. Police Chief Cal Johnston said Tuesday that Parker voluntarily resigned from the police service in November, 1999. Parker's lawyer said his client's resignation was not related to the criminal charges. "He retired for his own reasons," Michael Scott said. Parker, 48, was a police officer for approximately 20 years. RCMP seized a .22 calibre rifle, two shotguns, a .44 Smith & Wesson revolver and Parker's service pistol, a semi-automatic Glock 9 mm, from his home. "The Glock was improperly stored, either on the mantle or on top of the fridge. The .44 was in a drawer. The others were kept in the basement, no trigger locks, no storage container, no anything," Gerein said. "You want to make sure everyone is accountable under the law." Regina RCMP handled the case because it fell under their jurisdiction: Parker lives in Emerald Park, east of Regina. As a condition of his sentence, Parker will have to take any psychological counselling ordered by his probation officer. Johnston said the allegations were first brought to the attention of police service members in the fall of 1998. "We became aware of it and contacted the RCMP." Firearms seized by police are usually destroyed. Parker's Glock was returned to the police service, since it is police property. The two counts were summary charges, meaning that the Crown does not regard them as seriously as indictable offences and the punishments are usually less severe. "It has to be kept in perspective that the storage provisions under the Criminal Code are very stringent and they're difficult to comply with," defense lawyer Michael Scott said. While there were teenagers living in the home, no injuries or mishaps occurred as a result of the improper storage, Scott said. Police officers are taught proper weapons storage as part of their police training. "Anytime a police officer is charged of a criminal offence, it's a concern for us," Johnston said. "It did involve a service weapon." ------------------------------ Date: 2000.01.20 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: This is textbook gun-lobby stuff AS OF Dec. 1/98 there were about seven million new criminals in Canada. Under Bill C-68, if you are in possession of a firearm or cartridges or a gun part and you don't have a Federal Possession Certificate and a Registration Certificate, you will be charged under the Criminal Code and subjected to five years in jail and a heavy fine. The above infraction is considered more serious than kicking to death a defenceless "bottle picker" for entertainment, which got a young man a four-year jail sentence. But if you buy a couple of scraps of paper (indulgences) from the federal government, then presto ... the simple act of possessing a firearm, is no longer of any consequence! This is called justice in Canada. We have until Dec. 31, 2002 to get all guns registered and obtain a possession certificate. After that date, guns that have not been registered can never be, and will be seized and destroyed. Anyone who has never had a possession certificate by that date can never obtain one ... thereby eliminating all legal gun ownership in the future. Consider these quotations: "The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms," Adolf Hitler; "The cunning tyrant plans to disarm his people under the pretense of keeping them safe," Sir Walter Raleigh. Bud Thoreson Editor's Comment: (This is textbook gun-lobby stuff, which generally falls on deaf ears. We must have the jail sentences and clamour that follows to support your fears.) Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 19:24:49 -0600 From: rbaker Subject: Registration I am wondering why we are Talking and disscussing Federal Firearms Legislation when we should be directing our pressure to the Provincial Governments, who I believe could just pass legislation saying that federal Gun regislation is not valid in the province in which we live. This could also reinforce the soverignty of the provinces(which is something they would enjoy) Perhaps it would awaken the complacent proliticians in the government to the fact that they are again squandering huge sums of money (which is ours, not theirs) on legislation that will not accomplish anything. The laws seem to protect the criminal rather than the public at large. Has the registration of hand guns (since 1935) stopped crimes with handguns (NO). then why would the present legislation be any different. The impetance seems to be on the backs of the law abiding rather than the criminal. I have not seen legislation to address the wantent disregard of the motorist who go through stop signs or speed and who drive while intoxicated. Or the ciminals who plant themselves on our shores and are allowed to stay here and are supported with our dollars. The Americans think we are country hicks and I guess they are correct. Rae Baker ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 19:25:41 -0600 From: "Jim Hinter" Subject: Re: If you had a Permit to Carry, you are not applying for a new ATT, likely you are applying for a renewal of the "deemed" ATT that many CFOs made your Permit to Carry on 01 December 1998. Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca If you have questions on how to fill in your ATT application, call the NFA at (403) 640-1110 -- we can help... If you wish, you can of course contact 1-800-731-4000. The question to ask is a simple one, which organization, the NFA or the CFC do you believe is working hardest to make sure you can own, enjoy and responsibly use your firearms. Jim Hinter - -----Original Message----- From: lundgark@telusplanet.net Date: Wednesday, January 19, 2000 6:27 PM >At 07:25 PM 18/01/2000 -0600, you wrote: >>For those of you that want to renew your permit to transport restricted >>weapons and grandfathered prohibited weapons, you have to fill out an >>application form and send it to your Provincial Firearms Officer. >>This year it seems you can apply to have the permit valid for 3 years. >>The form is available for download in Adobe Acrobat format from the >>Federal Firearms Web Page. The following address takes you right to the >>forms download page. >> >>http://www.cfc-ccaf.gc.ca/forms_assistance/Forms/forms_avail_en.html > >Yes, you can apply for a three year permit. In Alberta it won't be >issued. > >Also some permits being issued in Alberta do not seem to cover >registered >restricted rifles, >nor do they cover borrowed restricted firearms. >Nor do the permits seem to be consistant in their wording and what is >allowed... > >The kind folks at the CFC informed me how to fill out my application for >an >ATT and assured me there was no reason not to issue a three year ATT. >The ATT issued to me expires as of November 30/2000 even though I >applied >for the three year maximum and my F.A.C. is valid for that period of >time. > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 19:26:21 -0600 From: "Jim Hinter" Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #257 Of interest, the Firearms Act states that a long term ATT can be issued for a period of not less that one year and not more than three years. If you just received an ATT issued for a period of less than one year, guess what, your CFO didn't follow the law. Dave Tomlinson stated at the FED UP II rally in Ottawa, that we will obey this law to the letter of the law, and so must they! It seems that too many CFOs have not read their own law.... Jim Hinter - -----Original Message----- From: dwbaker Date: Thursday, January 20, 2000 7:01 AM Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #257 >Valid period for ATT in Alberta > I also received an ATT valid until 30 November,2000,after >requesting >one for 3years. The answer I received for this was that all ranges had >untill Nov 30 ,2000 to be recertified and since they don't know which >ones >will be approved after this date yet,they would not give a longer valid >period on an ATT. I was assured that after Nov 30 the renewals would be >for >a three year period if you showed a membership valid for 3 years. >Dave >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Cdn-Firearms Digest" > >To: >Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2000 6:01 PM >Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #257 > > >> >> Cdn-Firearms Digest Wednesday, January 19 2000 Volume 03 : Number >257 >> >> >> >> In this issue: >> [none] >> Re: NFA RED WARNING - not anymore >> Volley of shots was fired from automatic weapons >> Gun ownership down, gun crime up >> GUN LOVERS URGED TO BECOME POLITICAL >> Is There a Connection between Shootings and Antidepressants? >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 18:55:59 -0600 >> From: lundgark@telusplanet.net >> Subject: [none] >> >> At 07:25 PM 18/01/2000 -0600, you wrote: >> >For those of you that want to renew your permit to transport restricted >> >weapons and grandfathered prohibited weapons, you have to fill out an >> >application form and send it to your Provincial Firearms Officer. >> >This year it seems you can apply to have the permit valid for 3 years. >> >The form is available for download in Adobe Acrobat format from the >> >Federal Firearms Web Page. The following address takes you right to the >> >forms download page. >> > >> >http://www.cfc-ccaf.gc.ca/forms_assistance/Forms/forms_avail_en.html >> >> Yes, you can apply for a three year permit. In Alberta it won't be >> issued. >> >> Also some permits being issued in Alberta do not seem to cover >> registered >> restricted rifles, >> nor do they cover borrowed restricted firearms. >> Nor do the permits seem to be consistant in their wording and what is >> allowed... >> >> The kind folks at the CFC informed me how to fill out my application for >> an >> ATT and assured me there was no reason not to issue a three year ATT. >> The ATT issued to me expires as of November 30/2000 even though I >> applied >> for the three year maximum and my F.A.C. is valid for that period of >> time. >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 18:57:41 -0600 >> From: Andy Krywonizka >> Subject: Re: NFA RED WARNING - not anymore >> >> Dave Tomlinson did knowingly scribble: >> >> >DANGER. Telling the verifier ANYTHING makes YOU subject to 5 years in >> >prison, because under FA s. 106 and 109, it is an offence if a person >> >"knowingly makes a statement, orally or in writing, that is false or >> >misleading" in the process of applying for a registration certificate. >> >> Dave, recently I received a letter to verify the Browning 9mm I >> purchased >> had the same specs as what was listed on the sheet, that being barrel >> length, caliber, serial number, etc. Sending this back, signed and >> dated, >> would then get me my registration certificate. At the bottom of the >> sheet >> was the warning: >> >> "It is an offence to knowingly make a false or misleading statement, >> either >> orally or in writing..." >> >> They've caught on. >> >> Andy K. >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Date: 2000.01.19 >> From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" >> Subject: Volley of shots was fired from automatic weapons >> >> gunfire during an ambush Sunday. His employee, Niv Erez, was killed on >> the >> spot. >> Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca >> Precedence: normal >> Reply-To: cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca >> >> Jewel thieves 'had their guns out'; Assailants crashed through ceiling >> in >> ambush, police say >> >> The gunmen who killed a jewelry store worker and seriously wounded the >> owner >> both fired their weapons after confronting the men inside the store, >> police >> sources say. >.................................snip >(moderator).......................... >> starting point is to check for and treat hypothyroidism. After doing so, >> most individuals find that the "fog" they've been living in seems to >> clear >> away. They also find that they have more energy and less fatigue. >> > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 19:27:25 -0600 From: Dave Tomlinson Subject: Re: >We recently (Dec) purchased a long gun in Bellingham wash, and had it >delivered to the border, where we paid PST, and duty on it and took it >home from there. we had a valid FAC and had no problems, and yes the store >in Bellingham ran a check as they had forms etc. there. they would not let >us take the gun from the store but offered a service to the border for >$20.00 US. the whole experience was very painless and quick. Congratulations. You are now a criminal, unless you registered the firearm before leaving the border. It is a criminal offence under CC s. 91(1) and 92(1) to be in possession of any firearm acquired after 01 Dec 98 unless you are the holder of a registration certificate for it. David A Tomlinson National President, National Firearms Association Ph: (780)439-1394 Fax: (780)439-4091 natpres@nfa.ca Box 1779, EDMONTON AB, T5J 2P1 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 19:27:56 -0600 From: "Fern C. Watt" Subject: Gary Gould Rant From:R.A. Watt So Gary Gould wants the entire cost of Canada's "gun control" effort to be borne by the recreational firearms community ? How about the costs of our so-called education system? I have no children in school and yet a good portion of my tax bill goes into the education system.I don't benefit from it ,and I deplore a great deal of what is being taught at my expense, but I am required to pay for it anyway. If the universal registration of firearms is going to benefit all Canadians,( as Ms McLellan and the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police assure us it is)then it should be paid for by all Canadians. Get your old-line party Member of Parliament to introduce a Private Members Bill imposing a "Gun Control Tax Surcharge" on every Canadian taxpayer, Mr. Gould, or get him to run on that platform in the next election. The outcome should be a pretty good measure of how committed he and the electors in his constituency are to creating Ms McLellan's "culture of safety". R.A. Watt ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 07:44:00 -0600 From: Kelly Weiss Subject: CFO Why not? Have you requested the CFO provide you with written reasons why? Once the CFO's reasons are received, you could then maybe seek advice from the NFA (or a lawyer); and, possibly dispute it lawfully in court. - ------------------------------ Original text: On Wed, 19 Jan 2000, lundgark@telusplanet.net wrote: >Yes, you can apply for a three year permit. In >Alberta it won't be issued. >Also some permits being issued in Alberta do not seem >to cover registered restricted rifles, nor do they >cover borrowed restricted firearms. >Nor do the permits seem to be consistant in their >wording and what is allowed... >The kind folks at the CFC informed me how to fill out >my application for an ATT and assured me there was no >reason not to issue a three year ATT. The ATT issued >to me expires as of November 30/2000 even though I >applied for the three year maximum and my F.A.C. is >valid for that period of time. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 07:43:57 -0600 From: Peter Cronhelm Subject: Re: Control Issues This is the well thought out and considered rebuttal of Mr Gary Gould to my reply to his diatribe against lawful gun owners: Gary Gould wrote: > > YOU AND ALL THE OTHER GUN NUTS WHO HAVE RESPONDED TO MY RESPONSE TO AN M.P. > ARE IDIOTS, AND HE IS A COWARD. IF YOU PUT A 30-30 TO YOUR TEMPLE AND FIRED, > THE SLUG WOULD NO DOUBT MISS YOUR PEA SIZED BRAIN. Insults are the typical reaction of someone who is utterly ignorant of the facts but at the same time has no intention of listening to a reasoned argument. Who is the idiot? The person who mindlessly refuses to listen to facts and replies with only personal insults or the person who engages in rational debate without insulting character attacks? If you truly had anything intelligent to say you would not have to resort to infantile name calling. Your comments only reveal your ignorance. Just try getting the muzzle of a lever-action 30-30 rifle up to your temple and you will quickly realize your arm is not quite long enough. Besides, I don't own a 30-30. :) During my service with the Canadian military I was trusted by the government (and one would assume Gary Gould also) to carry and operate a machine gun but the day after I left the service Gary decided I was not trustworthy to own so much as a bolt action rifle. Care to comment on this anachronism Gary? The average licenced firearm owner is more educated and more highly employed than the average Canadian citizen. Not to suggest that brain size has anything to do with IQ because it doesn't but one would surmise that a university education requires a brain larger than a pea. Peter Cronhelm BSc (Agriculture) Moderator's Note: I believe this will be the last message about Mr. Gould's submission, as anymore would be a waste. DJP ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 07:43:58 -0600 From: "Robin Leech" Subject: Logic vs Emotion In dealing with the Feds regarding C-68, I do not think it will do any good for us to be logical. The Feds have built this house of card based on emotional reactions, not logic and common sense. The Feds are still reacting in an emotional manner. If the Feds were reacting in a logical way, C-68 would have never been started. Therefore, let us start dealing in an emotional and gut-reactive manner to them regarding C-68. Robin Leech ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 07:44:08 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Firearms: the SQ is at the end of its rope Translation from French to English PUBLICATION: Le Soleil DATE: 1999.12.30 SECTION: Sports PAGE: D5 COLUMN: Chasse et peche BYLINE: Bellemare, Andre A. Firearms: the SQ is at the end of its rope Anne McLellan, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada, is telling us cock-and-bull stories when she claims that the process for registering firearms and their owners is no curb on the effectiveness of national, regional and municipal police. She goes crazy whenever opponents of the process argue that the country's police have to stop fighting criminals so they can "push pencils" for firearms control. The minister does not appear to be very well informed about what's really going on in the real world... For example, for the last few weeks, the Quebec Surete (SQ) has dragooned municipal police forces into reducing the mountain of files it has accumulated in the last year concerning registration for firearms and their owners. In Quebec, it is normally the SQ that does the RCMP's job and investigates applications by Quebec hunters for licences to possess firearms and for firearms registration certificates. Recently, one of my friends, living in the south-east corner of the Chaudiere-Appalaches area, was really surprised when he received a telephone call from a police officer somewhere in the south-west part of the Eastern Townships: the police officer was investigating a very specific application for a licence to possess firearms! When questioned, the police officer candidly admitted to my friend that the SQ had "handed out" a pile of licence application files to municipal police forces so that they would make the required investigations. As far as this police officer knew, the SQ was no longer up to the task and the help of local police forces had been requested to catch up on the backlog. Questions This raises several questions. Will the municipalities that discreetly "lend" their police officers to the SQ to conduct these investigations be compensated by the provincial government? Although this has been kept well hidden, Lucien Bouchard, Premier of Quebec and Leader of the Parti Quebecois, is paid tens of millions of dollars by Jean Chretien, Prime Minister of Canada and Head of the Liberal Party of Canada, so that the SQ can do the firearms control work assigned to the RCMP... Why do the municipal police officers agree to replace the SQ? We know that Quebec has eliminated municipal police forces and replaced them with SQ officers on patrol... Will municipal police officers agree for much longer to perform the administrative tasks for which the SQ is paid by Ottawa? The municipal police have been complaining for a long time that they don't have the time or the means to fight criminals... When will Minister McLellan acknowledge that the pointless and ridiculous process of registering firearms and their owners -- which has already cost hundreds of millions of dollars and will cost still more -- is detrimental to the fight against criminals by police officers? Anne McLellan should not try to deceive us: we have learned that the RCMP also dragooned municipal police forces in the western provinces into investigating, on its behalf, applications for licences to possess firearms and to register firearms! Fight against crime The leaders of the Bloc Quebecois, instead of bending over backward in the House of Commons in Ottawa to get their resolution against violence in television adopted, should have been concerned with the fact that the municipal police in Quebec have been turned into "pencil pushers" in the service of the federal RCMP in order to pester the hunters in our province... Municipal police officers would be far more useful in the fight against criminals and violence if they patrolled the streets instead of sitting in their chairs irritating owners of hunting rifles and guns! Obviously, the Bloc Quebecois would look "silly" now, since it has supported the federal Prime Minister Jean Chretien and the former federal Minister of Justice, Allan Rock, against the hunters during the debate on firearms control in Canada. AABellemare@lesoleil.com ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #259 **********************************