Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 07:05:21 -0600 Message-Id: <200002191305.HAA07060@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca> X-Authentication-Warning: broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca: majordomo set sender to owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca using -f From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #279 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Saturday, February 19 2000 Volume 03 : Number 279 In this issue: Are government officials recognizing Reality? Mike Harris Research Paper re:Premier Harris press releases Letter Published in Saskatoon Star Phoenix Mike Harris is showing anti-gun bias ATTN SK readers: "gun debate" on Monday 21 feb, 9 AM, NTR 650 AM radio ATTN SK Readers: CBC Radio 540 AM: "the new gun laws" Prohibition Order Firearms Re: Stolen firearms. HACS SHOW/Debate notice Re: Airsoft MEDIA ADVISORY CBC MORNING MONDAY FEB 21 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 07:13:32 -0600 From: rmcreat@istar.ca (Michelle Traver) Subject: Are government officials recognizing Reality? We are beginning to see some open recognition of reality by governing members. Give credit where credit is due; Premiere Harris of Ontario stated this week that the current firearms act far misses the point. The federal government should be concentrating efforts and tax dollars on the punishment for crimes committed instead of law abiding citizens. Harris' logic falls down, however, with the idea that handguns should be available to police, military and competition shooters only. Reality is that firearms exist. The knowledge of firearms exist whether we like it or not. Therefor we must live with them SAFELY. The control of an inanimate object through regulations, licensing and restrictions on that OBJECT will not prevent accidental or intentional tragedy from happening. Education and accreditation of INDIVIDUALS will certainly help to deminish their occurrence. The fact is that the human animal is a willful, thinking animal. Thus if a human being decides to do something, no matter what the cost, that human being will do what ever it takes to accomplish the task. This is, both, the ultimate blessing and ultimate curse of the human race. Logic tells us that training and accreditation of the individual and appropriate punishment for abuses are what is necessary rather than restriction and/or prohibition of an object for real safety in our society. Here in BC, we face a provincial NDP leadership convention to choose the interim premiere for the province over the next year. Only delegates of the party can chose who will govern the rest of us. This is not democracy. Interesting to note that the federal Liberal government has openly supported Ujjhal Dosanjh with financial donations for his campaign. Past rumors have it that the federal government had promised the BC NDP government general transfer benefits totaling 5 billion dollars as long as the provincial NDP supports the current federal firearms act. Here in BC, we seem to have a long way to go before our government faces reality. Privacy is a sacred thing, Michelle Traver (owner) SSAC NCBCS Pres. & Spokesperson HACS member, PPLC Assoc. http://www.home.istar.ca/~mac_sog/ 604-253-3311 fax 604-255-2202 1708 E. 1st Ave. Vancouver, BC V5N 1B1 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 07:14:07 -0600 From: "T. Bryant" Subject: Mike Harris This e-mail sent to his office today: Mr. Harris; My family in Ontario has supported your stand against the misguided federal legislation. You have had our unwavering support until you attacked the law abiding citizens who own handguns in Canada. The fact that hundreds of thousands of people own handguns under very tight regulations should instead be used by your government to illustrate the futility of the federal laws that your Government is contesting. Handguns have been regulated, registered and controlled since the 1930's. Despite spending multitudinous millions on the system to regulate handguns the Feds have admitted that it was an ineffective means of controlling gun crime. Responsible owners of handguns have not in any way contributed to your handgun problem but they do serve as a clear lesson that you can restrict law abiding citizens with all sorts of idiotic, sound good laws and bad people will still get guns. Use the law abiding citizens with handguns to illustrate that point that the registry will not work and better enforcement of laws against gun misuse would be money well spent. Don't use some of your strongest supporters as scapegoats. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 07:13:45 -0600 From: Lee Jasper Subject: Research Paper I just received an information package from Dennis Young, Reform MP Garry Breitkreuz's most able P.A. The package contained a copy of the joint Canadian Institute for Legislative Action and the Ontario Handgun Association's research paper Are rifles and shotguns the "weapons of choice" in Canadian violent crime? This paper was presented at the November 1999 American Society of Criminology Conference in Toronto. It is a must read and can be found on the CILA web site at: Great job CILA and OHA!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 07:14:02 -0600 From: Barry Snow Subject: re:Premier Harris Michelle, this stand that he takes is almost on the center of the fence. He may be on our side but mostly on the side of his continued career. Don't forget how easily the SHAD Foundation changed his opinion. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 07:13:55 -0600 From: "Mark Holmes" Subject: press releases OFAH FILE: 842/401-11 February 16, 2000 To Selected Media For Immediate Release A provincial politician's plan to curb violence is based on a lack of knowledge of existing gun laws, false assumptions, erroneous statistics, and it will not work any better than the highly unpopular gun regulations imposed by the federal government. Demonstrating his ignorance of existing gun laws St. Paul's riding MPP Michael Bryant called for safe storage laws that have already been in place for years. Trigger locks have been mandated under federal storage laws since 1993, noted Rick Morgan, O.F.A.H. Executive Vice President. It was in advance of next week's Supreme Court challenge that Bryant took aim at Ontario's Premier as well as the leaders of the eight other provincial governments opposing the federal gun laws. And, while taking shots at the provincial leaders, Bryant has ignored the facts and the dismal track record of similar gun control programs launched in Great Britain, Australia and elsewhere. Borrowing heavily from the federal gun control program, Bryant offered a five point "gun violence crackdown." that will do little to stop criminal misuse of firearms. "When will politicians quit misleading the public to believe that registering the firearms of law-abiding citizens stops criminals, suicide, or violence? In fact, where even stronger gun laws have been imposed, violence is increasing," said Morgan. "We are sick of people who mislead the public with feel good but useless solutions to crime problems. What a waste of money and resources," Morgan added. Spouting misleading statistics, Bryant fails to acknowledge that firearms are NOT the preferred choice of violent criminals. Less than five percent of violent crimes involve firearms, and registering guns will NOT stop criminal activity that stems from substance abuse, mental illness, lack of social services, poverty, organized crime or smuggling. Bryant also fails to acknowledge that, prior to federal firearms registration, incidents of violent crime were dropping and they continue to drop. Handguns have been registered in Canada since 1934 yet they remain the criminal's weapon of choice. And, based on enforcement records, the vast majority of firearms used by criminals are smuggled in from the United States. Common sense argues that smuggling, not lawful gun owners, need to be addressed. Commenting on Bryant's calls for lawsuits against gun manufacturers, Morgan said "his plan is foolish. If gun manufacturers can be sued for incidents involving misuse of their products, then the doors are wide open for similar law suits against auto manufacturers for the carnage that occurs on our roads ever year." "It 's high time that politicians like Mr. Bryant drop their preoccupation with registering law-abiding people, address the real issues surrounding gun crime and commit to meaningful programs such as better social services, beefed up police enforcement, crack down on smugglers and urge the courts to stiffen penalties for criminals," Morgan concluded. For more information on this important issue, please contact Ontario Federation of Anglers and Hunters Communications Specialist Mark Holmes at 705-748-6324, fax to 705-748-9577, or e-mail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 07:13:49 -0600 From: Howard Hamilton Subject: Letter Published in Saskatoon Star Phoenix This letter was sent in responce to an editorial slamming the DoJ on the Firearms act. It was published on 2000/02/17 {-------------------- I would like to express Kudos to the editorial staff of the Star Phoenix for taking a stand against the spin doctoring and propaganda of the Federal Department of Justice. At the same time, I would like to chide them for using that same propaganda, where the federal government has been under-estimating the number of guns and gun owners in Canada, and hiding the true costs of the gun registry. In a 1974 document entitled "Peace and Security: Protection Against Violent Crime," the Liberal government estimated 10 million guns nationwide. Then just two years later, during the debate over Canada's first universal gun controls (firearms acquisition certificates) the same Trudeau government, after examining import/export records, manufacturing statistics, sales figures, police files and so on, increased its estimate to 18 million guns owned by 6 million Canadians. Using import/export and manufacturing statistics, since 1976, there has been an average net increase of about 190,000 guns per year, upping the estimate of guns to the 21,000,000+ range. The UN reported that Canada ranks third among the developed western countries (behind the United States and Norway) in the civilian ownership of firearms estimating that 29% of homes in Canada contain firearms. The other area where the government spin doctors have been pulling the wool over the media's eyes, including your editorial staff, is the cost of the gun registry. Through the use of Access to Information Requests, Yorkton Reform MP Garry Breitkreuz, discovered that the Department of Justice had spent $216 million on the gun registry by March of 1999, another $98 million by June of 1999, and were asking for $150 million more to get them through to the end of the year. This did not include expenditures hidden in 172 documents that were claimed to be "Cabinet Secrets" and not released. - -- ___ Howard R. Hamilton | Life is best when a o__ o__ | |\ buz@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca | little exercize is /| /\ | |X\ buz@sis.usse.sk.ca | followed by a glass / > o <\ | |XX\ (306) 931-1607 | of a good red wine. - -- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 07:13:40 -0600 From: "Marc Thibault" Subject: Mike Harris is showing anti-gun bias >From the National Post, 16 February 2000 (Get Illegal guns off streets, Harris says) "Mr. Harris said only the police and competitive target shooters should have pistols,..." Add this to the spring bear hunt and it becomes clear that Harris has the same objective as Ottawa, but that he's sly enough to do it in smaller increments - to raise the temperature in the lobster pot somewhat more slowly than Ottawa would. Based on what I've seen, it's safe to say that a majority of target shooters are not "competitive", but shoot for the personal challenge and the company of intelligent, even-tempered folks. There are also a lot of collectors in this province. Harris wants to take their guns away unless they agree to shoot in competitions. Where does he think competitive target shooters come from? Does he think they spring full-grown from the ground shooting one-inch groups? My club has a couple of poker shoots every summer. Will that do for Mr. Harris? We really need a party on the provincial ballot called "None of the Above". More to the point, we need to end our blanket support of the Ontario Conservatives and concentrate riding-by-riding on those candidates that show they are consistently on the side of the angels - whatever their party affiliation. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 13:49:53 -0600 From: "Skeeter T. Abell-Smith" Subject: ATTN SK readers: "gun debate" on Monday 21 feb, 9 AM, NTR 650 AM radio I was told that NTR 650 will be covering the "gun debate" on Monday at about 09:05 (AM) on the John Gormley show. Someone I know was asked to be a guest... =-] The show is also simulcast on 1300 AM in the Regina SK area. phone toll-free: 1-877-332-TALK (-8255) News Talk 650 AM radio in Saskatoon SK can be heard throughout SK and into AB and MB, as well as the US. http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 20:20:43 -0600 From: "Skeeter T. Abell-Smith" Subject: ATTN SK Readers: CBC Radio 540 AM: "the new gun laws" CBC Radio One in Saskatchewan is scheduled to have a debate on Canada's newest anti-gun laws, the Supreme Court challenge, etc. I am assuming this will be after the 13:00 (1 PM) news on Monday Feb. 21. I recall the number to be 1-800-716-CBC1 (-2221) http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 07:04:59 -0600 From: Rick Lowe Subject: Prohibition Order Firearms Brian Drader said: > I would hope so. However, that is not the case according to Kathleen > Roussel of the CFC, who tells me that - guilty or innocent - CC s.116 > applies and all seized firearms must be destroyed/rendered In my opinion, anything Roussel writes is not worth the paper it is written on. In my latest go round with the CFC, I wrote her about the local Firearms Officer's refusal to register a handgun. She gave me a lot of bull and I backed her into a corner. To make a long story short, at that point she then told me that all she (or the Minister of Justice for that matter) could do is give me her OPINION. Only the Grand Poobah Firearms Officer has the authority to say what is and what isn't. So if you want to know what the deal is, put your question to the head of the Puzzle Palace. It may well be that Roussel or one of her flunkies will be the one who actually writes the letter - but it will at least be a letter supposedly saying what the law is. If you go on what Roussel tells you, you may find yourself in a hearing being told "But this is only an expression of an opinion, not a statement as to what the law is." Make the guy running the show earn his pay... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 07:04:55 -0600 From: Peter Kearns Subject: Re: Stolen firearms. I had an interesting problem recently. My company bought a stolen Walther P-38 that was retrieved by Edmonton Police Service and held in their property section. (The owner was the insurance company that had paid out on the loss.) I produced the bill of sale and our business licence to the police. No good... You must have a TAN or valid registration certificate. Called Miramichi and was told "you can't own it unless the insurance company goes through the transfer hoops!" The insurance company didn't want to know. Consulted with David Tomlinson, and the insurance company provided a letter appointing me personally as their agent, empowered to dispose of the pistol. Miramichi were still unsure, and finally agreed to issue a TAN providing the registrars at CFO Alberta agreed. They did, and issued a TAN. Production of the printed TAN plus our business licence did the trick and now the P-38 is no longer a gun, as it is now a deactivated, deregistered and sold item. Another possible solution for your bureaucratic woes..... Yes, I know the TAN was illegal, but our business licence allows us to transport restricted firearms on behalf of those legally allowed to possess them...... (We didn't need the bloody TAN, but the cops wanted it.) Peter Kearns ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 07:05:03 -0600 From: rmcreat@istar.ca (Michelle Traver) Subject: HACS SHOW/Debate notice Historical Arms Collectors Society Show for those in BC (especially in the Lower Mainland) Sunday, Feb. 20, 2000. held at: Operating Engineers Hall 4333 Ledger Ave., Burnaby, BC Time: 8:30am - 4:30pm ************************************** I have (potentially) a talk show debate regarding the Supreme Court Appeal on Monday, Feb. 21, 2000 at 1:00pm (PST) on CBC "Alminac" radio program. I don't know who is going to represent the federal government in this debate at this time. Privacy is a sacred thing, Michelle Traver (owner) SSAC NCBCS Pres. & Spokesperson HACS member, PPLC Assoc. http://www.home.istar.ca/~mac_sog/ 604-253-3311 fax 604-255-2202 1708 E. 1st Ave. Vancouver, BC V5N 1B1 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 07:05:11 -0600 From: Dave Tomlinson Subject: Re: Airsoft >I have a question. Does the NFA also help protect people who participate in >firearms related sports and hobbies? Or more specifically, I'm an avid >Airsoft gamer and there's a small but vocal airsoft population in Canada >who feel threatened by the powers-that-be. Some MPs wish to classify >airsoft guns as replicas or restricted firearms and therefore have the >sport banned. This would be a bad thing for our fledgling sport. >Essentially Airsoft is similar in principal and scope to paintball. For >more information (if you're not familiar with this sport) go to: >www.airsoftguns.com or www.airsoftzone.com At this time, the Airsoft guns are lost in fog. Their status is: 1. (Best case) They do fit the Criminal Code section 2 definition of "firearm" because they are "capable of causing serious bodily injury." That is, they can seriously damage a human eye if fired into the eye from a distance of one centimeter or 1/2". If that is so, then they are NOT "firearms" for the purposes of the sections listed in CC s. 84(3), and are exempted from all the Firearms Act controls that apply to "firearms." 2. (Worst case) They do NOT fit the CC s. 2 definition of "firearm" because they are NOT "capable of causing serious bodily injury." In that case, they (most of them) fit into the CC s. 84(1) definitions of both "replica firearm" and "prohibited device." It is a criminal offence to transfer a "prohibited device" FROM yourself [CC s. 99-101 inclusive), but not TO youself, and it is not an offence to POSSESS a "replica firearm" [CC s. 91(2) and 92(2)]. The decision as to whether 1 or 2 is actually the case with Aisoft guns can ONLY be made by a judge in a court of criminal law. NO ONE else has the authority to say what this rather messy law actually means. To the best of my knowledge, no Airsoft case has actually been heard yet. When one is, the NFA will be happy to supply its expertise and expert witnesses for that case. It doesn't HAVE to make sense. It is GOVERNMENT POLICY. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 07:05:15 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: MEDIA ADVISORY MEDIA ADVISORY For Immediate Release February 18, 1999 THE SUPREME COURT CHALLENGE- PERSPECTIVES OF THE FIREARMS COMMUNITY Ottawa - Garry Breitkreuz, Official Opposition Firearms Critic and MP for Yorkton-Melville, in conjunction with responsible firearms owners and organizations from across Canada, will be holding a news conference at the following time and place: TIME & DATE: 1 PM - MONDAY, FEBRUARY 21, 2000 LOCATION: NATIONAL PRESS THEATRE - 150 WELLINGTON ST., OTTAWA The following representatives will be available to take questions from the media regarding their participation in the constitutional challenge underway in the Supreme Court of Canada: * Professor Ted Morton, Senator-Elect for Alberta * Paul Shaw, Barrister & Solicitor and President, Shooting Federation of Canada * Dallas Miller, Counsel for the Coalition for Responsible Firearm Owners * Tony Bernardo, Executive Director, Canadian Institute of Legislative Action - -30- For more information, please call: Ottawa office: (613) 992-4394 AVIS AUX MEDIAS Diffusion immediate Le 18 fevrier 2000 CONTESTATION DEVANT LA COUR SUPREME - PERSPECTIVES DU MILIEU DES ARMES A FEU Ottawa - Au nom de l'ensemble des proprietaires et associations de defense des proprietaires d'armes a feu responsables du Canada, M. Gary Breitkreuz, porte-parole de l'opposition officielle en matiere d'armes a feu et depute de Yorkton-Melville, tiendra une conference de presse aux heures et lieux suivants : DATE ET HEURE : LE LUNDI 21 FEVRIER 2000 a 13 h LIEU : AMPHITHEATRE NATIONAL DE LA PRESSE 150, RUE WELLINGTON, OTTAWA Les representants dont les noms suivent repondront aux questions des medias concernant leur participation a la presente contestation constitutionnelle devant la Cour supreme du Canada : * Professeur Ted Morton, senateur elu de l'Alberta * Paul Shaw, avocat et president, Federation de tir du Canada * Dallas Miller, conseiller aupres de la Coalition for Responsible Firearm Owners * Tony Bernardo, directeur general, Canadian Institute of Legislative Action - - 30 - Pour plus d'information, s'adresser au : Bureau d'Ottawa : (613) 992-4394 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 07:05:19 -0600 From: Wally Butts Subject: CBC MORNING MONDAY FEB 21 W. J. (Wally) Butts, Vice President, Communications is scheduled to appear on CBC's Morning show shortly after 7:00 a.m. (est) on Monday, February 21. Wally will be offering the opinions of the RFC on why the Firearms Registry, and C-68 in general is bad law. The opposing voice is scheduled to be Wendy Cukier. Each participant will be interviewed separately by host Mark Kelly. Each will have only about 3 to 4 minutes of air time. Wally Butts ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #279 **********************************