Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 15:28:32 -0600 Message-Id: <200002272128.PAA20347@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca> X-Authentication-Warning: broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca: majordomo set sender to owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca using -f From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #282 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Sunday, February 27 2000 Volume 03 : Number 282 In this issue: Statistics and Wendy Getting a gun-legally National Post Article Correction: Kingston Whig Standard Article Letter to the Kingston Whig Standard Editor AXWORTHY ASKED THE UNITED STATES TO STOP LEGAL GUN SALES TO CANADA Letter to Southam News Trap RO Course Re: Prohibition Order Firearms AXWORTHY STOPS LEGAL GUN SALES TO CANADA Gun control reward? Re: automatic conversion of FAC to PAL (repost) RED ALERT - US Suspends All Arms Sales ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 15:22:24 -0600 From: "Robin Leech" Subject: Statistics and Wendy I read in the Edmonton Journal the other day that possibly up to 98,000 people are accidentally or unintentionally killed in hospitals in the US by doctors and nurses misdiagnosing, giving the wrong medicine, giving too much of a medicine, doing the wrong operation, etc. I can go back and dig up the article if anyone wants the details, but wouldn't it be nice to say to Wendy, "If it will save even one life, the US should close down all its hospitals." I wonder what our Canadian stats are on this matter? Maybe we should tell this to Wendy. Maybe we should get rid of all our cars in Alberta. About 400 people die each year in Alberta by vehicle accident. Again, "If it will save even one life,..." In the US, about 50,000 people die each year in vehicle accidents. The US should get rid of all vehicles, because, "If it will save even one life,..." Robin Leech ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 15:22:19 -0600 From: "Paul Meyer" Subject: Getting a gun-legally I thought I read an article sometime in the last 2 or 3 years where a reporter with no criminal record and no previous ownership of (or interest in firearms went through the whole procedure of buying the book, taking the course, applying for the licence, etc. right to the point where he/she was standing in the Canadian Tire store with an FAC and was able to legally acquire a rifle or shotgun. He or she didn't actually buy a firearm, but the point of the exercise was to see how tough it would be. The article was interesting in that the reporter commented (mostly favorably) on the course, the other people at the course and I think, the club where it was taught. The part that I vaguely remember is that, acting as quickly as possible (under the OLD FAC system remember) it took him/her around 11 months to go from deciding to buy the firearm and actually standing there at the store. Does anyone else remember this or have a copy of the article? Paul Meyer ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 15:22:11 -0600 From: Peter Cronhelm Subject: National Post Article U.S. suspending handgun sales to Canada Unexplained surge in export licences; smuggling possible Raymond Bonner The New York Times WASHINGTON - The Clinton administration is suspending the export of handguns, rifles and ammunition to Canada after discovering a large volume of sales in the past nine months, U.S. and Canadian officials said yesterday. Since last April, when the United States began requiring licences to export weapons to Canada, licences have been issued for 115,000 handguns, 25,000 rifles and 200 million rounds of ammunition, according to U.S. government data. U.S. officials said they do not know where the firearms are going -- and that is what has caused them to act. One official said it was "extremely possible" that the handguns were being smuggled back into the United States along the long, relatively porous border. In recent years, Canada has become a trans-shipment point for weapons from the United States, including sophisticated missile technology. The weapons have ended up in countries such as China, Iran and Libya, according to U.S. Customs Service records. The number of handguns licensed to be sold to Canada in the past nine months is more than any other country and 10 times greater than the combined total of handgun sales to Britain, France and Italy in 1998, according to government statistics. A similar suspension of firearms sales to Britain two years ago has been lifted. Although about 4.5 million new firearms are sold every year in the United States, the number of the licenses for sales to Canada are viewed as unsettling by government officials because Canada has one of the strictest handgun control laws in the world -- far stricter than the United States. In Canada, which has a population of 31 million people, possession of handguns is limited to collectors, target shooters and people who can demonstrate that they need guns to protect their lives. A senior law enforcement official in Canada, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, called the import figures "astonishing," given his country's strict firearms laws. "I don't know where these handguns could be going," he said. Under the trade's current method of operation, a firearms importer usually gets a licence that covers a far greater number of firearms than it is intended to bring into Canada immediately, and they are then brought in over a period of months or years. These open-ended licences make it harder to monitor the trade in firearms, experts say. After several weeks of intense negotiations over the handgun issue, the Canadian government on Wednesday sent a letter to the State Department asking the United States to suspend the issuance of further licences, pending an investigation, Canadian and U.S. officials said. One question the Clinton administration wants the investigation to answer is why the Canadian import authority issued so many licences given the country's gun control laws. Licences from both the United States and from Canada are needed to export weapons to Canada. The Clinton administration was prepared to act without the Canadian request, officials said. The suspension of further licensing takes place immediately, Canadian and U.S. officials said. The suspension of firearms sales is another round in the battle between the two neighbors over export controls on weapons sales to Canada. Over strong and continuing objections by Canada, the Clinton administration has slowly been tightening export regulations. The figures on firearms imports are also likely to embarrass the Canadian government, which has taken a highly vocal lead in the international campaign to curb the flow of small arms and light weapons. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 15:22:05 -0600 From: Al Dorans Subject: Correction: Kingston Whig Standard Article Dear Firearms Owner, A statistical correction is needed for the Kingston Whig Standard article "Handguns not wanted." (Feb. 17) The corrected version should read: "In fact, of the 606 guns recovered from crime scenes in 1997, 443 were rifles or shotguns and 163 were handguns." Al Dorans ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 15:22:07 -0600 From: Al Dorans Subject: Letter to the Kingston Whig Standard Editor CILA / ICAL Defending Canada's Heritage - --------------------------------------------- Dear Firearms Owner, Here is an article that appeared in the Kingston Whig Standard on Feb. 17th, 2000. It was written by Paul Schliesmann, Letters to the Editor. If you would like to respond to the political correctness and anti-gun bias evident in this article, here are the two individuals responsible and their addresses. Congratulations to those who responded to Wendy Cukier's article in the Ottawa Citizen. We know that many dozens were received by the Citizen and many appeared in print. Politicians from all parties were fully aware of this backlash. Firearms owners are sending a powerful message to the media and politicians. They are overcoming their indifference and standing up for their freedoms. Remember to send you letters to your members of parliament. Kingston Whig-Standard 6 Cataraqui St. Kingston,Ont. Po.Box 2300 K7l-4Z7 Steve Lukits,Editor Phone 613 544-5000 Fax. 613 530-4121 E-mail: kinwhig@thewhig.com Paul Schliesmann Phone 613 544-5000 ext.180 E-mail: whiged@thewhig.com Letter to the Kingston Whig Standard Editor "Handguns not Wanted" Handguns, to paraphrase and old Lynyrd Skynyrd song, are good for nothing but putting a man six feet in a hole. That's why Premier Mike Harris's supposed new war on handguns seems a worthy one. Harris was reacting to recent shootings in a Toronto high school and a nightclub in which pistols were used. Apart from police officers and competitive target shooters, he said few people shoul;d be allowed to own a handgun. Actually, handguns are not widely available in Canada. Ownership is limited to collectors and shooting club members. So the premier's remarks are largely moot. Still, Harris was criticized by advocates of stricter gun laws for opposing the federal gun registry. He says the program is a waste of money and only hurts law-abiding rifle and shotgun owners. In fact, of the 606 guns recovered from crime scenes in 1997, 443 were rifles or shotguns and 663 were handguns. Perhaps the premier can be convinced to support the national gun registry. Being a federal law, however, that issue is also moot. What's most comforting about Harris's remarks is that they signal a distaste for the kind of widespread handgun ownership that exists in the U.S.. Harris is often criticized for emulating U.S.-style politics. But on the ownership of handguns, he clearly - and quite rightly - nds apart. Paul Schlieschman ............... Professor Al Dorans Director of Operations, Ottawa Office Canadian Institute for Legislative Action / Institut Canadien pour l'Action Législative ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 15:22:13 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: AXWORTHY ASKED THE UNITED STATES TO STOP LEGAL GUN SALES TO CANADA NEWS RELEASE February 25, 2000 For Immediate Release AXWORTHY ASKED THE UNITED STATES TO STOP LEGAL GUN SALES TO CANADA "Gun smugglers don't apply to the government for firearms licences and import permits and they don't register their guns." Ottawa - Today, Garry Breitkreuz, MP for Yorkton-Melville and Official Opposition Firearms Critic, slammed Foreign Minister Lloyd Axworthy for over-reacting to the Clinton/Gore government's concerns about legal gun sales to RCMP licenced firearm dealers in Canada. "This is not a smuggling issue," declared Breitkreuz. "This is not an illegal activity. The legal import and export of firearms is the most regulated industry there is. This is either another back-handed attempt by a paranoid Liberal Cabinet Minister to kill the thousands of legitimate businesses and tens of thousands of Canadian jobs or a cover-up of another botched job by bureaucrats in the Canadian Firearms Centre and the Canadian Firearms Registry." "Officials in the Department of Foreign Affairs have advised that the request to impose the U.S. suspension of legal firearm sales to Canada came directly from Minister Axworthy's office. Within days, this ban will cause the loss of business and layoffs in the thousands of firearms dealers licenced by the RCMP to operate in Canada. Axworthy must resolve this ridiculous situation and withdraw his suspension request immediately!" exclaimed Breitkreuz. "Gun smugglers aren't stupid. They don't apply to the U.S. Trade Department for firearms export permits. Smugglers don't apply to the Canadian Department of Foreign Affairs for import permits. They don't stop at Canada Customs to pay the GST and duty when they bring firearms across the border. And, smugglers don't register each firearm with the RCMP as the law requires. Does anyone really think organized crime and the Hells Angels are applying to the government for firearms' licences and import permits?" asked Breitkreuz. "A key question for everyone to be asking is: With all these controls in place, why doesn't the federal government know exactly where all these firearms are?" Canadians have every right to be alarmed but they should be alarmed at the incompetence of this Liberal government that loses track of 140,000 firearms in their brand new gun registry." "All the firearms imported legally from the United States are in the hands of licenced firearm dealers or licenced individuals. Canadians should be concerned about criminals who own guns, not legitimate businesses and citizens who go to all the trouble of licencing themselves and their businesses, applying to the government for import permits and registering their guns," said Breitkreuz. "The system of legal import/export of firearms is operating exactly the way both governments wanted it to run. What's the problem? Only legal gun sales between the U.S. and Canada have been suspended. Black-market gun sales and firearms smuggling will continue unabated. The only people who will get hurt by this suspension are the thousands of licenced firearm dealers and their employees." For more information, please call: Yorkton Office: (306) 782-3309 Ottawa Office: (613) 992-4394 e-mail: breitg0@parl.gc.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 15:22:23 -0600 From: CILA / ICAL Subject: Letter to Southam News CILA / ICAL Defending Canada's Heritage - -------------------------------------------- February 24, 2000 RE: Guns must be registered To the Editor: When I read the article entitled “Guns must be registered” I felt compelled to respond to several point. While the author states there are few argument supporting any instances where firearms should not be registered, the editorial does not state any arguments as to why they should be registered, an essential element of all criminal law. First, there must be proven criminality. The author cavalierly “tosses aside” any right Canadians may have to own weapons and then states that Canadians “have the right to live in a society where the movement of potentially lethal items can be monitored.” The most basic investigation of this issue reveals this to be utter nonsense. The 1689 English Bill of Rights, Article 11, confers to all subjects of the Crown the “right to bear arms for their defence, suitable to their condition, and as allowed by law”. No kidding, look it up. The Second Amendment of the U.S. Constitution was based on this. The fact the Canadian government has chosen to ignore it is as irrelevant as the fact that they ignored the “Rights to Private Property” provisions in the Magna Carta of 1066 when they chose to confiscate the legally owned, legally acquired, safely stored and FULLY REGISTERED firearms of 47,000 honest Canadians without compensation for their loss (a provision of Bill C-68, Section 12(6)). While these documents might be old and treated by our government with irrelevancy, the “rights” they confer form the cornerstones of a free society and they apply to us. Or do these “rights” only apply to “politically correct” causes? Like freedom of the press. The author finds something deeply disturbing about firearms owners not wishing to register their legal firearms. Sorry, but I find something deeply disturbing about a government that advocates nonsensical legislation in an effort to make their constituents feel warm and fuzzy. Handguns have been registered in Canada since 1934 but recent Canadian government “Juristats” report that prohibited handguns are the criminal’s firearm of choice and are used in 74.9% of all firearms related crime (including all the recent incidences of youth crime). As the author clearly states, criminals ignore registration and licensing laws and perpetrators of “crimes of passion” and psychopaths don't give a damn if the firearm is registered or not. From the obviousness of this logic, the futility of firearms registration leaps out. If ordinary, honest, sane people are the only ones that register firearms, what is the point of the exercise? The author states that “firearms owners oppose the fact that police can walk into your home and confiscate your legally owned property” and then states that registering firearms does not bring Canada any closer to being a communist state. I am the only one that read that ridiculous statement? Is there any thinking person that believes police in a free society should possess these kinds of excessive powers? Sincerely, Tony Bernardo Executive Director, Canadian Institute for Legislative Action / Institut Canadien pour l'Action Législative ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 15:22:06 -0600 From: "Walter Hornby" Subject: Trap RO Course does anyone have in their files an RO course for trap shooters. seems the local boys are worried that they need someone to certify them as RO's (they've only been shooting trap for the last 20 years or so) so they have asked me to teach them on since I am certified as a pistol RO and Rifle RO. if not electronic, contact me and I will send you my snail mail address. Walter Hornby ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 15:22:22 -0600 From: Rick Lowe Subject: Re: Prohibition Order Firearms Dave Tomlinson said: Sorry, but he does NOT have that authority. The ONLY person who is authorized to interpret the laws and regulations is a JUDGE in a court of law. Sorry Dave, but the Firearms Officer IS the one who can make a decision to register or not register a handgun - the judge comes after the fact if you decide you need a reference hearing because you don't like the decision. In fact there are numerous instances in the Firearms Act where the FO is authorized to decide whether or not various acts can carried out. He IS authorized to interpret the laws and regulations - the judge's job is to decide whether his actions were correct or not afterwards. I stand by my statement that the only person worth getting a letter from regarding the "what is" of the Firearms Act is the Firearms Officer. You can write any judge you want, but they are arbiters of dispute rather than officials of any department... and I doubt very much they are going to give you an answer before you find your way before them in court with an issue to be decided between you and the Crown. People are better off getting something in writing rather than verbal advice. Ms. Roussell has been quite clear when backed into a corner that she can only give opinions and only the Chief Firearms Officer can make a decision. I think the answer of who the best person to direct written questions to becomes obvious. The answers may not even be right - but at least they are in writing and come from somebody who DOES have authority to make decisions. Ms. Roussell can't do that, although she may well write the decisions somebody else signs their name to. You have to start somewhere. And a judge ain't it. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 15:22:07 -0600 From: "John Perocchio" Subject: AXWORTHY STOPS LEGAL GUN SALES TO CANADA To the Editor: > More Government by Decree... I've been following the news that Lloyd Axworthy, our Minister of Foreign Affairs, and United Nations mouth piece, has made a unilateral decision to put what remains of Canada's Licensed Firearms Dealers out of business. The already suffering firearms industry can ill afford any further calamities. This once proud and successful $6 billion industry has been reduced to ashes. In two decades we've seen our dealerships go from over 8000 to currently below 2000. Both Liberal and PC governments might consider this a success story based on their merciless implementation of PC Bill C-17, which started the mess, and Liberal Bill C-68, which continues this outrage. Those of us who lost our livelihoods, jobs, and property would strongly disagree. Those of us who lost it all, myself included, grow impatient for answers from a government who cripples industry, squanders billions and lies incessantly. Lord...send us an election! John L. Perocchio Kanata, Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 15:22:21 -0600 From: Ron Dotson Subject: Gun control reward? Why doesn't someone, or some group of firearms proponents in Canada, get together and offer a hefty reward to anyone who can show statistically that gun control reduces crime? The fact that no one would be able to claim the reward should provide good evidence that gun control doesn't work, and might help hasten the demise of C-68 and your gun registry (I live in Los Angeles, CA, USA - We are just now beginning to fight our own registry). Wouldn't you like to be able to ask Ms. Cukier (by the way, is her name pronounced "Kookier") or Prime Minister Chretien why they haven't claimed the reward? Keep up the fight! Ron Dotson Ron@Dotson.net ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 15:22:16 -0600 From: "Brad Thorarinson" Subject: Re: automatic conversion of FAC to PAL (repost) The attribution on my previous post was screwed up, hope this goes through right "John Glencross" wrote: I have a current FAC which doesn't expire until February 2003. I alsohappen to own ( along with several other registered handguns) a newly prohibited 25acp Browning pistol.., You have a PAL - and your FAC is it, or at least proof of the existence of the 'deemed' PAL. You don't have to apply for a PAL to purchase firearms, quote your FAC number including the two-letter province designator when asked for your PAL number. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 15:22:14 -0600 From: CILA / ICAL Subject: RED ALERT - US Suspends All Arms Sales CILA / ICAL Defending Canada's Heritage - -------------------------------------------- February 25, 2000 U.S. Government Suspends Firearm and Ammunition Sales to Canada To all firearm dealers and members of the firearms community: Effective immediately, the U.S. government has suspended all firearms and ammunition sales to Canada. This has been done at the request of the Canadian government. Citing concern that a quantity of LEGAL import licenses were being used to import large (?) quantities of handguns, rifles and ammunition, a senior Canadian law enforcement official stated the import figures were astonishing. Since last April, licenses have been issued for a mere 115,000 handguns, 25,000 rifles and 200 million rounds of ammunition, relatively small numbers considering these include the firearms and ammunition supplied to Canadian police departments. President Clinton (and her husband) stated a concern that these firearms were being re imported to the U.S. The Clinton administration said that they were prepared to act unilaterally if need be. Yours in Service, Tony Bernardo Executive Director, Canadian Institute for Legislative Action / Institut Canadien pour l'Action Législative National Office: P.O.Box 44030, 600 Grandview St. S. Oshawa, ON. L1H 8P4 Ph: (905) 571-2150 Fax: (905) 436-7721 e-mail: teebee@sprint.ca Ottawa Office: 27 Cedar Grove Crt. Nepean, ON. K2G 0M4 Ph: (613) 828-8805 Fax: (613) 828-6967 e-mail: aldorans@magma.ca Home: http://www.cila.org ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #282 **********************************