Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 21:13:59 -0600 Message-Id: <200003140313.VAA12717@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca> X-Authentication-Warning: broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca: majordomo set sender to owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca using -f From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #299 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Monday, March 13 2000 Volume 03 : Number 299 In this issue: [Fwd: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #295] FOREIGN AFFAIRS UPDATE - Firearms import licenses Re: KUSTOMS SEARCH Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #297 Jobs, not safety, key Heston to be key speaker at BCWF Citizens in U.S. West trying to put gun initiatives on ballots Gun Registry: a grave misuse of taxpayers' money Editor's Comment: (Which kind are you?) MOMS TO MARCH FOR GUN CONTROL SOME MURDERERS EXEMPT FROM DNA TESTS Export Licence Issue... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 08:09:55 -0800 From: "Robert M. Hobbs" Subject: [Fwd: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #295] > Subject: Re: #294 Raising Visibility - Steve Allen > > > the fact that guns save 40 lives in Canada for > > every one that they take. > > Can anyone actually back this up ??? > > I have been an active hunter / target shooter for 40 > years and do not know of a single true example of > someone actually saving their lives with a firearm > (except for a couple of cops and a drug dealer who > shot another criminal in a drug deal). Thought I had a > couple of examples but when I called the people > supposedly involved they turned out to be just urban > legends. > > I know 4 people who died from gun shots, 2 suicides, 1 > cop, and 1 murder. I should know at least 40 to 160 > who saved their lives by aiming a gun at a bad guy, > but do not know any? > > Am I missing something? > Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca I think maybe you are missing something, and perhaps you don't read the newspapers the way I do. Unfortunately the instances reported wherein some has defended themselves with a firearm also mention that that person was subsequently charged with a firearms offense, fortunately usually thrown out of court. The consequence being that if I were tonight to put the run on some home invaders with my trusty 9mm Browning I would be inclined to not mention it. Anyway, lets confine this illustration to just three generations of one family, mine. My grandfather was anything but a firearms enthusiast, but he did keep a loaded single shot 12 gauge shotgun on pegs over the back door of the farmhouse. He homesteaded in the Standard area at the turn of the century and was many miles away from any police detachment. He wasn't much of shot either, but when the predators got brave enough to come into the yard and the limited range of the shotgun the old 12 gauge stood him in good stead. And during one confrontation with an intoxicated and armed group of persons (whose racial origin I hesitate to define) grandpa thought the old single shot saved the family from at least robbery and maybe worse. I wasn't there, but I believed him. Then we'll move on to my dad. He was overseas in World War II, and of course people shot at each other a lot in the course of the war. During the Battle of Bulge his station was shot up pretty bad, and at other times his squadron shot up a lot of German trains, bridges, and tanks. But it probably had nothing to do with the war when two guys attempted to mug and kill him in an alley in Antwerp one night, and he only survived because he had his pistol out of his holster and ready at the time. Fast forward to me. I am a gun enthusiast. In Africa in 1967 I was charged by an elephant and dropped it at 10 paces (the jumbo had a abscess on one tusk that weighed 60 pounds, and maybe this toothache was what made him cranky). Now if you are hunting you might expect this sort of problem (in fact I did have a problem with a Cape Buffalo, but we won't count that). The thing was I wasn't hunting at the time that elephant charged, I was just taking pictures, and had done nothing to provoke him. On this trip we had an interesting old lady come into our camp and try to convince us of the errors of our ways in hunting animals and the joys being a vegetarian. Mrs. Wilkinson traveled with a young black boy and carried a pair of bush bunnies in her shirt pockets. She was very articulate, and I was somewhat experienced in taking the other side of the argument, and we actually had two lively sessions while I was there. The next year an orthodontist friend of mine went on safari to the same camp. I asked Charles if Mrs. Wilkinson had called, and he advised that unfortunately he had missed her by some three weeks. It seems she had inadvertently gotten herself in amongst a large herd of buffalo, and they somehow didn't understand her superior motives, and when found later Mrs. Wilkinson was very flat indeed. The next time a rifle saved my life was when I was acting as a big game guide in 1975. My client had taken one of two boar grizzly, the second of which promptly bolted up the mountainside. This was expected - grizzly bears seldom charge. What was exceptional was that he came back some ten minutes later, stalked us along the creek where we were, and charged over the top the bank at a range of 30 yards. As my client had not been able to see the bear in that heavy cover, and as I had no gun, I had taken over his .338 Magnum, and put the bear down with two shots. The next incident did not involve a gun saving my life, but did involve me and did save a policeman's life. During the summer of '82 three hard core criminals, all out on probation, broke into my house, stabbing my dog to death in the process. By extreme good fortune my neighbor happened to be coming home at that time (2 A.M.) and the trio thought I had somehow called the police and left . As it turned out this was not really their night, because after committing another break and enter and stealing a cash register from a small rural store they wound up in a high speed chase with the Mountie from that small town. They first tried to disable him by throwing the cash register in front of his car, but eventually trapped themselves on a dead end gravel road. The boiled out of their car with a loaded handgun and rifle pointed at the squad car, but gave up when it turned out the officer had a 12 gauge riot gun that made the odds more than even. The man that killed my dog turned state's evidence and wound up getting no time. The other two got five years. If I were to expand this epistle beyond personal experience it would wind up much, much, longer. I am not about to put a sign on my house "This is a safe house. All my guns are securely locked, and ammunition stored separately." - --------------404425A2760CE07380ED0496-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 09:56:07 -0500 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: FOREIGN AFFAIRS UPDATE - Firearms import licenses Dennis, please note a brief update on the above: * DFAIT review of the Import Certificates for export licenses issued since November 1, 1999 is complete. * We can confirm that all import certificates issued by this office since that date are for legitimate users and are to be considered valid. * We have also reviewed Import Certificates for outstanding export licenses applications. Again, we can confirm that all import certificates issued BY this office are for legitimate users and are to be considered valid. * This information has been conveyed to the Department of State. Having received our report, the US is processing outstanding license applications. Danuta Tardif Parliamentary Liaison Officer DCL/Cabinet and Parliamentary Affairs Agente de liaison parlementaire DCL/Liaison avec le Cabinet et Affaires Parlementaires Tel. 944- 5153 Fax 944- 0665 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 08:19:01 EST From: "Tom Zinck" Subject: Re: KUSTOMS SEARCH Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #297 Yes, many gun owners have been illegally searched and detained my Canada Customs. Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca For a description of how to protect your RIGHTS see this article by Peter Kearns : http://www.comnet.ca/~tzinck/borderrights.htm - -Tom > >Geez, whats' with Kustoms. Those revenuers are really >starting to peev me off. I think they're just trying >to hassle gun owners. > >Now they say they can search your car just because >their computer says you are a "random" search. > >Does anybody know about this? Any lawyers out there? I >thought they needed "reasonable grounds". > >Also, can the public ask Kustoms to provide written >reasons why they searched your car? I'd be interested >in knowing the real reason. > >Anyone else been "UNREASONABLY SEARCHED" lately? > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 10:18:25 -0500 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Jobs, not safety, key Jobs, not safety, key Dear Editor: A recent Herald ad says there are three things to know about firearm registration. There is a fourth: The program has little to do with firearm safety, but rather with the manufacture of jobs in an area where closing an airbase caused unemployment. This was finally acknowledged recently, on radio, by someone who worried about those 200 to 300 jobs, not public safety, in the event the bill was withdrawn. It confirms my position that jobs were the objective in the first place. We would have been better off with the airbase. Registration is at the cost of the legitimate firearm owner, and that cost will escalate as public money is withdrawn in favour of persecuting the gun owner with a "user-pay" scenario. Bob Tuttle, Pugwash Junction Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 10:26:13 -0500 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Heston to be key speaker at BCWF PRINCE GEORGE - Hollywood legend Charlton Heston will be the key speaker at the B.C. Wildlife Federation's annual general meeting here next month. Heston, the president of the National Rifle Association in the United States, is expected to speak on April 13 at the Coast Inn of the North on his stand on firearms. Mr. Heston is an outspoken proponent of the right to own firearms, including handguns. Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 21:04:22 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Citizens in U.S. West trying to put gun initiatives on ballots PUBLICATION: Montreal Gazette DATE: 2000.03.12 EDITION: FINAL SECTION: News PAGE: A7 BYLINE: MICHAEL JANOFSKY SOURCE: New York Times DATELINE: DENVER Taking on `frontier mentality': Citizens in U.S. West trying to put gun initiatives on ballots Frustrated by their legislatures' unwillingness to pass new gun-control measures, citizen groups in three Western states are collecting signatures to put the issues before voters this fall as ballot initiatives. Leaders of the groups - in Colorado, Utah and Oregon - say popular support for their efforts is growing, a trend that reflects a significant change in attitudes about gun rights in areas of the country where guns have always been part of the culture. In Colorado and Oregon, the ballot initiatives would close the so-called gun-show loophole by requiring criminal background checks for people who buy guns from private dealers at weekend gun shows, where a quarter of all vendors are not licensed, according to a 1999 report by the Treasury and Justice Departments and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. Shift in Public Sentiment The Utah effort is aimed at denying people who have permits to carry concealed weapons from taking their guns into churches or public schools. All three states have Republican-led legislatures that have acted with apparent disregard to the shift in public sentiment. Yet each has a governor who backs the ballot measures, including two who are Republican, Bill Owens of Colorado and Michael Leavitt of Utah. Gov. John Kitzhaber of Oregon is a Democrat. ``To some degree, the Columbine tragedy has impacted people's views,'' said Arnold Grossman, a Denver political media consultant and founder of the Colorado group collecting signatures, explaining why polls in all three states have shown strong popular support for the measures. ``As the population shifts in the West, with more people coming in from California and the East, attitudes shift. We're moving away from the frontier mentality.'' Citizens Group Emerged The fatal shootings of 12 students and a teacher last year at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colo., were carried out with guns bought through nonlicensed sales at the Tanner Gun Show in Denver. The shootings prompted lawmakers in several states, and in Congress, to introduce measures that would make private gun dealers conduct the same kind of background checks that licensed dealers require of their customers. None of the bills have passed. After similar bills failed this year in Colorado and Oregon, citizen groups emerged to press ahead with ballot initiatives, and organizers in both states say groups in other states are watching their efforts closely to plan their own strategies. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 10:32:56 -0500 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Gun Registry: a grave misuse of taxpayers' money Gun registry; Unfairly targeting Lord The federal Liberals have purposefully compromised the government of New Brunswick. Conservative Premier Bernard Lord has been warned by Ottawa that if he steps up New Brunswick's anti-gun control position, the feds will consider moving their central gun registration centre out of the province. There are at least 250 jobs at stake at the centre in Miramichi, which is one of the poorest regions in the country. The centre handles thousands of phone inquiries each day and processes mailed-in forms for firearms licensing and registration that are required by the Liberals' controversial Firearms Act. The evidence is overwhelming that the initial decision to locate the gun registration centre in Miramichi was politically motivated. The 1996 decision coincided with former Liberal premier Frank McKenna throwing his support behind the bill. As it turned out, the centre was eventually placed in McKenna's riding. However, since the Firearms Act came into effect on Dec. 1, 1998, Lord's Tories have joined seven other provinces and territories in a challenge of the law before the Supreme Court of Canada. Ottawa's apparent concern is that Lord will follow the lead of Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba and refuse to participate in the registry -- in effect forcing the RCMP to implement the program instead of local police forces. A briefing note obtained through the Access to Information Act from the Justice Department suggests provinces who support the gun law might not tolerate placing 250 jobs in a jurisdiction that opposes the registry. The briefing notes say that New Brunswick has been warned "of all the implications of any future decision to fully opt out of the program." The tactic being employed by the government in this case amounts to nothing less than blackmail: Essentially using the threat of withdrawing public money to intimidate the public into pressuring Lord. It is a grave misuse of taxpayers' money and one that the government of New Brunswick should resist, particularly since the Firearm Act, as has been argued before the Supreme Court, falls outside the constitutional jurisdiction of Ottawa. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 10:43:26 -0500 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Editor's Comment: (Which kind are you?) PUBLICATION: The Toronto Sun DATE: 2000.03.12 SECTION: Comment PAGE: C2 COLUMN: Letters to the Editor IN A letter to the Sunday Sun on Feb. 27, the writer's claim that gun laws are almost non-existent in the United States must disregard gun prohibition in New York City, Newark, Detroit and Chicago. By disarming the public, these cities have been turned into killing zones for armed criminals, while states with no gun control like Vermont and New Hampshire have little or no crime. There is total gun registration in California with confiscation of semi-automatic rifles. In the 31 states where "concealed carry" is permitted, it is done so only after careful police scrutiny of the applicants. Referring to another letter, where the writer dates the start of "studying shooting as a disease" as 20 years ago, I beg to differ. The Center for Disease Control started this trend 10 years ago as a means of acquiring grant money. Taken from "Guns, Germs and Science," by David Kopel in the Journal of the Medical Association of Georgia (Vol. 84, June, 1995): "For something to be a genuine disease vector, there must be some association between prevalence of disease vector (guns) and the disease (violence). In fact, there is a strong correlation but the correlation is an inverse one. Regions and population groups with the most guns have the lowest levels of gun violence." There are three kinds of ignorant people: those who can't learn; those who do not have the opportunity to learn; and, the most dangerous kind, those who refuse to learn. Dr. Jules Sobrian President, Responsible Gun Owners of Ontario Editor's Comment: (Which kind are you?) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 10:45:29 -0500 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: MOMS TO MARCH FOR GUN CONTROL PUBLICATION: The Ottawa Sun DATE: 2000.03.12 SECTION: Showcase PAGE: S5 BYLINE: GANNETT NEWS SERVICE MOMS TO MARCH FOR GUN CONTROL On Aug. 10, Donna Dees, a part-time publicist and New Jersey mom, was channel surfing, and found herself watching Ted Koppel on ABC's Nightline, discussing how a man had wounded three kids and a counsellor and shot to death a postal worker that day at a Los Angeles day-care centre. Two police chiefs -- one from Seattle, one from Vancouver -- were talking about gun violence. Dees 42, and mother of Lili, 6, and Phoebe, 4, was struck by the Vancouver chief talking about how such things don't happen much in Canada. "I was distressed. It was yet another story about how kids the same age of my own children could be the target of someone with a gun." She called several friends to vent. A week later, she had a permit to march on Washington, D.C. On May 14 -- Mother's Day -- Dees' Million Mom March will converge on the nation's capital to call for stricter gun measures. So far, Dees predicts 10,000 mothers will show up, but at least one of her former bosses -- CBS News anchor Dan Rather -- says not to underestimate her. "When Donna sets her mind to something, she is really tough, powerful and smart as a bayou tiger," Rather said Monday. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 10:51:53 -0500 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: SOME MURDERERS EXEMPT FROM DNA TESTS SOME MURDERERS EXEMPT FROM DNA TESTS Murderers and others convicted of serious crimes will escape the new federal DNA registry through a loophole, Ontario officials say. They fear violent criminals will be released onto the street without giving a DNA sample - a genetic imprint as unique as a fingerprint that can be obtained painlessly from hair or body fluids. Under the federal legislation now, only certain classes of convicted criminals will be required to give DNA. Those who are convicted of committing a single homicide, for example, are exempt. Only multiple-murderers will be required to give a sample of DNA upon release from prison. While rapists will be required to give a DNA sample, those criminals convicted of assault, break-and-enter or drug-related crime will not have to do so. "Knowing that these people do repeat and escalate why not check their DNA before they get out of jail rather than risking that they may reoffend?" asks Ontario Chief Coroner Dr. James Young, who was on a two-day fact-finding trip to FBI labs in Washington, D.C., last week, along with Ontario Solicitor General Dave Tsubouchi. FBI officials told them that their profiling of criminals shows that rapists and murderers almost always have committed another apparently unrelated crime, often involving assault, break and enter or drugs. And criminals travel a lot these days. In one recent case, DNA testing linked a series of rapes in Washington, D.C., to a drug murder in Florida. The perpetrator had run drugs from Florida to Washington, where he had committed the sex offences. An alert police officer recognized a murdered drug dealer in Florida as a man wanted in the Washington rapes. A DNA sample was taken and it matched the semen found in the rape victims. Young says checking DNA of a broader cross-section of criminals before they leave jail will allow scientists at the Centre of Forensic Science to cross-match the sample against samples taken from unsolved crimes. Ontario officials made their case to a Commons committee, but were turned down by federal officials who feared a Charter of Rights challenge. An inquiry into the botched Paul Bernardo double-murder probe urged the feds to get the DNA registry up and running quickly. "The whole idea of the registry in Ontario is to capture people as early in the cycle as possible, so you want to stop these people before they commit a sexual assault,"Young said. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 10:28:20 -0700 From: "Jim Hinter" Subject: Export Licence Issue... There is an increasing number of indications that we will win this particular fight. Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Now we must push home the advantage. Visit www.nfa.ca for a copy of the NFA UPDATE -- with addresses. Winning this so quickly is a credit to each of you how have written, e-mailed, called and spread the word. Let us take this small win and continue to raise awareness. Jim Hinter National Vice President Communications National Firearms Association jhinter@nfa.ca www.nfa.ca * DFAIT review of the Import Certificates for export licenses issued since November 1, 1999 is complete. * We can confirm that all import certificates issued by this office since that date are for legitimate users and are to be considered valid. * We have also reviewed Import Certificates for outstanding export licenses applications. Again, we can confirm that all import certificates issued BY this office are for legitimate users and are to be considered valid. * This information has been conveyed to the Department of State. Having received our report, the US is processing outstanding license applications. ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #299 **********************************