From - Wed Oct 18 11:47:26 2000 Received: from broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (majordomo@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca [198.169.128.1]) by skatter.USask.Ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA26690; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 06:47:37 -0600 (CST) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA10802; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 06:28:54 -0600 Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 06:28:54 -0600 Message-Id: <200010171228.GAA10802@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca> X-Authentication-Warning: broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca: majordomo set sender to owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca using -f From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #501 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Status: X-Mozilla-Status: 8001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 37247a250001a62f Cdn-Firearms Digest Tuesday, October 17 2000 Volume 03 : Number 501 In this issue: [Fwd: Re: [NFAMemberDigest] election signs!] FW: Elsie seeks coalition with Liberals If it saves just one computer, its worth it ?? With beefed-up powers, Customs officers hit gym Cash unacceptable for gun registration; Tried to obey the law food for thought PAL refunds Re: Dealer Challenge update ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 21:20:47 -0600 From: Ian Parkinson Subject: [Fwd: Re: [NFAMemberDigest] election signs!] - -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [NFAMemberDigest] election signs! Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 13:38:09 -0600 From: David Brewerton The biggest problem if the election is indeed called next Sunday will be the weather. The ground is already hard here in Calgary and will only get worse in November. Elections called at this time of year are tough to run for this reason. Think now of alternate methods of putting signs up because it's going to be hard to use survey stakes in short order. Gordon wrote: > The green and black NFA election signs look quite nice! I had a > first look at them yesterday at the Edmonton Gun Show! Has anyone > tried out any ways to post them? I notice construction sites this > past summer using bags like that to cover traffic signs such as > speed limits but I doubt if we can put them there! Nor over Fire > Hydrants! They would fit nicely though :))) Although they may be > hard to read mounted over something round! I hope someone can come > up with some inexpensive way to put them up - and soon - looks like > they should be going up around Halloween judging by the multi > million dollar ad campaign the Liberals are running - patting > themselves on the back for returning some of our money they have > previously withdrawn from our programs like education and > health! Think hard folks - if we are putting these up they have to > look good and be readable! Otherwise we might as well be using a > felt marker on washroom doors! The best I can think of is survey > stakes with squares of stiff cardboard to slip the signs > over! Hopefully , after the election, Westerners can write "flush > twice - it is overa thousand miles to the nearest Liberal". The last > Poll I saw was Liberals 41% Canadian Alliance 33%. We are > gaining!!!!! In spite of the Liberal advertising and the end of > Trudeaumania! Gordon > > > eGroups Sponsor > > Working together, growing, building and always looking to present > the best possible message to the public, we will win! > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > NFAMemberDigest-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > - -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~> Tellme Sports. Tellme Stocks. Tellme News. Just Tellme. Call 1-800-555-TELL and hear everything. For info visit: http://click.egroups.com/1/9529/8/_/913977/_/971725161/ - ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> Working together, growing, building and always looking to present the best possible message to the public, we will win! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: NFAMemberDigest-unsubscribe@egroups.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 13:51:34 -0400 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: FW: Elsie seeks coalition with Liberals > "There's a possibility of us having a great deal of power in the next > government," she said. "If there's a minority government, then it will be > the PCs who will have a coalition with the Liberals -- it will not be the > Alliance." > -- Elsie Wayne, press conference 10.16.2000 > quoted in "Elsie Wayne to seek third term," Canadian Press, Monday, > October 16, 2000 > http://cgi.canoe.ca/CNEWSPolitics0010/16_wayne-cp.html > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 12:51:17 -0400 From: "Paul Chicoine" <701506@primus.ca> Subject: If it saves just one computer, its worth it ?? I'm from the government and I'm here to help you...yea right. After a virus problem I recently had I prefer to deal with it myself, if it saves just one computer its worth it or maybe we will soon find ourselves at the bottom of the food chain while the "carnivores" rule the roost. Intercepting e-mail eyed by Ottawa Privacy issue: Spy agency weighs secrecy against cyber attacks Jim Bronskill Southam News OTTAWA - Federal officials are wrestling with the privacy implications of intercepting e-mail messages during attempts to zero in on computer viruses. A newly declassified report by Canada's electronic spy agency indicates the issue is among the thorny legal questions that need to be clarified before going ahead with a planned national centre to protect vital information networks. The Communications Security Establishment report, obtained under the Access to Information Act, stresses the need for policy guidance to help the proposed information protection co-ordination centre investigate viruses and cyber attacks. "The interception of e-mail messages may be required when tracking down viruses since most viruses are distributed through the e-mail system," says the CSE report, prepared in April. "This may be seen as an invasion of privacy but in some cases it may be necessary in order to ensure network security." It notes that existing case law deals with similar scenarios but the results are "still subject to interpretation." The report says policies are needed to govern investigations and to determine when matters must be referred to police. CSE, a highly secretive wing of the Defence Department, has dual roles -- the analysis of foreign phone, fax and radar communications for national security purposes, and the protection of federal computers and information networks. As part of its protective mandate, CSE conducted Operation Caveat, a four-week effort to monitor critical networks for cyber intrusions during the Y2K period of mid-December 1999 to mid-January 2000. The exercise involved several other players including the RCMP, the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, Foreign Affairs, Public Works, Treasury Board, Justice, the provinces and CanCERT, a privately run computer protection initiative. At the time, there was widespread fear of millennium-inspired sabotage as well as potential problems stemming from the inability of some computers to recognize Jan. 1, 2000, causing them to malfunction or shut down. In the end, there were few serious problems, though the CSE report says "a number of incidents of malicious activity were recorded." Portions of the Operation Caveat report describing details of the security incidents were withheld. The exercise served as a trial run for a national information protection co-ordination centre, which would help organize federal response to incidents such as the recent Lovebug virus or the attacks that shut down major Web sites. "These are new phenomena," said Jim Harlick of the Privy Council Office. "You've got to be able to pull together and manage in a co-ordinated fashion the expertise that's available." Harlick is helping direct a federal task force study of the requirements for a centre -- from hardware to personnel. It's too early to tell exactly what the centre would look like or when it might be up and running, he said. However, the centre would monitor federal computer networks on a day-to-day basis as well as collect reports about intrusions, viruses or other problems across the country. It would then provide advice on necessary action in the form of alerts or advisories and, in the event of a cyber crisis, co-ordinate a full-fledged response. - ----------------- Paul Chicoine (RSA) http://pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x26C2633F (DSS) http://pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x3B0DB246 Non Assumsit Contract, All Rights Reserved, Without Prejudice - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 15:12:19 -0400 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: With beefed-up powers, Customs officers hit gym PUBLICATION WINNIPEG FREE PRESS DATE : MON OCT.16,2000 PAGE : A1 CLASS : City EDITION : With beefed-up powers, Customs officers hit gym Staff Reporter Gloria Taylor Customs officers at the Emerson-West Lynne border crossing will be huffing and puffing their way through self-defence classes in the next few weeks as they prepare to handle new expanded powers of arrest and detention that come into force early next year. "Customs officers have always had the power to detain people suspected of violations under the Customs Act, but now they'll have the right to arrest and detain anyone they feel has violated the Criminal Code or anyone who has an outstanding warrant," said Harry Troche, communications manager with Canada Customs and Revenue Agency in Winnipeg. At least a few of the 40 guards at the southern Manitoba port have traded in their uniforms for gym clothes at the Rigaud, Que., training centre to learn the ABCs of subduing the bad guys. They'll be joined by others in the coming weeks. They'll learn how to handcuff and forcibly detain suspects when verbal resolution fails and get first-hand instruction in how to use pepper spray and collapsible batons they'll receive to help them cope with their added responsibilities. Ultimate fighting it's not. But the two-week session does incorporate techniques from some of the mainstream defensive arts like judo and ju-jitsu, said Serge Charette, national president of the Public Service Alliance of Canada. "They are going to learn to do their job and not get hurt, so the training will focus on defensive techniques." Charette didn't have a lot of details on the program but said some members had expressed concerns about the physical demands of the sessions, an issue largely resolved when the agency decided to ask for volunteers when possible to take the expanded-powers training. "We have no concerns about the training, but it is a fairly physical course when it comes to things like learning to ward off blows," he said. At the Emerson-West Lynne crossing, on Highway 75, 96 kilometres south of Winnipeg and just north of Pembina, N.D., half the contingent of 40 is expected to take the expanded-powers training. Despite the added duties, Customs officers will still not be allowed to carry , a sore spot with the Public Service Alliance of Canada. "Since September of 1990, our position has been that officers should be armed if they request it and particularly if they work alone," Charette said. The government has maintained, however, that guns could incite violence. Not all the training is physical. Charette said members will also be schooled in pertinent aspects of the Criminal Code and how to resolve conflicts verbally. Training will concentrate on offences that are regularly encountered at the border: impaired driving, child abduction and possession of stolen property. In 1998, the federal government passed Bill C-18, giving the agents the expanded powers, but they weren't implemented for two years because the agency was busy developing policies and procedures to go with the new measures. The expanded powers have already been implemented at a few Canadian sites such as Windsor, Ont., but Manitoba will have to wait for the go-ahead from the agency until some time during the first three months of 2001. The Emerson-West Lynne crossing is one of 32 such ports across Canada. It was chosen for its high volume of traffic, which is estimated to have risen 250 per cent over the last five years. It's the only one of 17 sites in Manitoba chosen for the added duties. Suspects The Emerson-West Lynn building was also recently replaced by a new $12-million facility that now includes six lanes to process traffic instead of the former three and new computer equipment for speedier data-processing. A licence plate scanner onsite automatically checks numbers through several databases. Unlike the old building, the new facility has a room where Customs agents can lock in suspects. Troche said in the past guards simply would ask suspects to wait and watch them in the office until RCMP came to pick them up. In addition, all Customs officers, including Manitoba's, have recently undergone five-day personal protection training. Topics covered included Criminal Code matters and administering breathalyser tests. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 15:15:31 -0400 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Cash unacceptable for gun registration; Tried to obey the law PUBLICATION: The Fredericton Daily Gleaner DATE: 2000.10.14 SECTION: New Brunswick PAGE: A3 SOURCE: The Daily Gleaner BYLINE: CHISHOLM POTHIER PHOTO: The Daily Gleaner/ Stephen MacGillivray Photo ILLUSTRATION: CAN'T REGISTER GUN: Leon Mazerolle stands outside the Canadian Firearms Center in the Brookside Mall where he was refused a licence because he wanted to pay cash. Cash unacceptable for gun registration; Tried to obey the law Leon Mazerolle wonders why the federal government refuses to accept its own legal tender. The Harvey Station man couldn't register his firearm in Fredericton this week because the firearms registration assistance centre in the Brookside Mall doesn't accept cash. It accepts Visa, MasterCard or money orders but not the legal coin of the realm. Mazerolle doesn't have a credit card. And he says he's not going to be an errand boy for the firearms registry by running around to get a money order. When he phoned the Miramichi headquarters for the registry, he said he didn't get a straight answer as to why they don't accept cash. He said the official spoke about Revenue Canada not accepting cash payments but didn't really say why the firearms registry doesn't. The answer is not that complicated, as it turns out. An official at the Brookside Mall centre said they don't accept cash because they have to mail all the registrations to the main registry in Miramichi. The centre doesn't want to be sending cash through the mail, said the official. If the client wants to pay using cash, he or she can mail the registration directly to Miramichi, the official added. Still, Mazerolle thinks it's the government's job to figure out how to send the money. It could deposit the cash in a bank account and wire it electronically, for instance. The bottom line is the federal government should accept as payment its own currency. But Mazerolle, who enjoys hunting deer, moose and partridge, has another problem with the registration. On the form the applicant is asked to answer whether they have ever been treated for depression, alcohol abuse, behavioural or emotional problems. Even more of an infringement on his civil rights and privacy, he believes, is the question that asks the applicant if they have experienced a divorce, separation, breakdown of a significant relationship, job loss or bankruptcy. "What goes on in my bedroom shouldn't affect gun registration," he said. "If someone goes bankrupt, do they think if you have a gun you're going to shoot the person who drove you bankrupt? Or that if you take more than two Aspirin, you're a drug addict?" He also questions the effectiveness of the process. A 16-year-old may pass a gun handling test but that's a far cry from the experience needed to actually be in the woods in control of a high-powered rifle. He thinks the gun registration -- which, until the centre refused his cash, he was willing to comply with because it's the law -- will backfire. A legal registry will create a black market for illegal guns and it won't just be criminals buying them. It will also be homeowners who want to protect themselves from burglars who figure homes are easier targets without guns. The Daily Gleaner was unable to get a response to these concerns from the firearms registry. Because of a high volume of calls, nobody was answering the toll-free number in Miramichi Friday. But action at the Brookside assistance centre had slowed down somewhat Friday, as word got out that the federal government had extended the deadline for registering a gun for the discounted price of $10 from this Sunday to Dec. 31. The justice department lowered the price in June from $45 to $10 for a firearms possession licence but the price was slated to rise to $60 on Sunday. Ottawa says it is extending the lower price to Dec. 31 since it has been so popular with gun owners who are turning out en masse to apply for licences. Under new federal firearms legislation, anyone who wants to use, own, borrow a gun or buy ammunition must be licensed by Dec. 31. As of Jan. 1, gun users will need the licence even to purchase ammunition. At that time, gun possession licences will no longer be available and firearms users will be forced to apply for possession and acquisition licences, which cost $60. With files from Summit News Service. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 19:33:20 -0600 From: Joe Gingrich Subject: food for thought On the eve of King Chretien's election announcement look at these quotes, many anonymous, but fitting for the occasion. We must dump the King and his law C-68. Joe Gingrich White Fox - ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Fwd: Some thoughts on Gun Control > >>GUN REFRESHER COURSE - The Basic ABCs > >> > >>a. An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject. > >>b. A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone. > >>c. Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface. > >>d. Gun control is not about guns; it's about control. > >>e. If guns are outlawed, can we use swords? > >>f. If guns cause crime, then pencils cause misspelled words. > >>g. Free men do not ask permission to bear arms. > >>h. If you don't know your rights, you don't have any. > >>i. Those who trade liberty for security have neither. > >>j. The United States Constitution (c) 1791. All Rights Reserved. > >>k. What part of "shall not be infringed" do you not understand. > >>l. The Second Amendment is in place in case they ignore the others. > >>m. 64,999,987 firearm owners killed no one yesterday. > >>n. Guns only have two enemies: Rust and Politicians. > >>o. Know guns, Know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety. > >>p. You don't shoot to kill; You shoot to stay alive. > >>q. 911 - government sponsored Dial a Prayer. > >>r. Assault is a behavior, not a device. > >>s. Criminals love gun control - it makes their jobs safer. > >>t. If Guns cause Crime, then Matches cause Arson. > >>u. Only a government that is afraid of it's citizens try to control them. > >>v. You only have the rights you are willing to fight for. > >>w. Enforce the "gun control laws" in place, don't make more. > >>x. When you remove the people's right to bear arms, you create slaves. > >>y. The American Revolution would never have happened with Gun Control. > >>z. "....a government by the people, for the people....." > >>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > >>Laws that forbid the carrying of arms ...only disarm those who are > >>inclined nor determined to commit crimes...such laws make things worse for > >>the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to > >>encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked > >>with greater confidence than an armed man... > >>Thomas Jefferson.. "Commonplace book," 1774-1776 > >>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > >>Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the > >>argument of tyrants. It is the creed of slaves... > >>William Pitt, Speech to the house of Commons, 18 November, 1783 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 00:36:48 -0400 From: "Andrew Amelia" Subject: PAL refunds Are people actually getting refunds for paying the full price of PAL's before the discount??? What about registration costs? I'd like my refund!!! Drew Amelia ******************************* "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - -Edmund Burke ******************************* - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cdn-Firearms Digest" To: Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 8:33 AM Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #499 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 00:50:35 -0600 From: "Peter Kearns" Subject: Re: Dealer Challenge update I attended a meeting with several lawyers and officials of the NFA this evening. This was to revue progress and to review options relating to the case. All parties were satisfied with the conduct of the case, and pleased with the progress so far. We remain extremely optimistic that the final outcome will deliver multiple body blows to the Firearms Act, and will cause the feds to transfer firearms as the law instructs, and not illegally, as they persist in doing. After listening to several opinions, it appears the "Dealer Challenge" may have opened a real can of worms for the Canadian Firearms Registry and the Department of Justice, and several sections of the FA are at risk now. We are demanding more pre trial disclosures from the feds, and we are currently reviewing the amount of damages claimed. The fed meanwhile are asking silly questions relating to the importance of the case, and apparently don't wish to go to Court. The NFA confirmed that this matter will be pursued until it is successfully concluded, funding is ongoing, and instructed the lawyers to continue the action vigorously. DAT also stated that the NFA is still accepting donations to help fund this action. They say the wheels of justice "grind exceedingly slow," but they do grind, and we will win. regards, Peter Kearns Simon says: Our other cases are proceeding well, and we are demanding documentary evidence that should prove very embarassing to the feds. ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #501 **********************************