From - Mon Oct 23 11:35:53 2000 Received: from broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (majordomo@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca [198.169.128.1]) by skatter.USask.Ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA22696; Sun, 22 Oct 2000 08:02:56 -0600 (CST) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA02711; Sun, 22 Oct 2000 07:44:04 -0600 Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 07:44:04 -0600 Message-Id: <200010221344.HAA02711@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca> X-Authentication-Warning: broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca: majordomo set sender to owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca using -f From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #509 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Status: X-Mozilla-Status: 8001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 37247a250001a991 Cdn-Firearms Digest Sunday, October 22 2000 Volume 03 : Number 509 In this issue: Alliance to unveil tough crime policies Updates on Firearms Information Rallies + Sign Orders Firearms Oregon Gun Show Intitiative Won't Stop Crime Getting out the Message on Signs FIREARMS FIASCO LUFA discussion page Re: Have Gun, Will Travel Re: Question about illegal use of TAN's Re: Asian gangs will register their machine guns! Re: Replays of 'Lorne Gunter Live' Re: Mount Trudeau Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #506 A GREAT DAY FOR THE FIREARMS COMMUNITY AND "ALL CANADIANS/US PEOPLE". ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 09:51:48 -0400 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Alliance to unveil tough crime policies PUBLICATION: The Toronto Star DATE: 2000.10.20 SECTION: NEWS PAGE: 06 SOURCE: OTTAWA BUREAU Alliance to unveil tough crime policies; Platform to come in mid-campaign OTTAWA - The Canadian Alliance will paint itself as tougher on crime than the Liberals with a mid-campaign release of a beefed-up law-and-order platform. The document outlining the party's justice platform, which is still being drafted, will run about a dozen pages. It will detail policies on drugs, young offenders, sentencing, firearms, parole and prison reform, organized crime and border controls, The Star has learned. It will highlight: Longer sentences and lifetime supervision for criminals who commit "serious, violent" offences; The removal of judicial discretion when it comes to determining what constitutes a "serious violent offence." The Alliance will list what those crimes are; Tougher treatment of young offenders, including lowering the age of criminal responsibility to 10 from 12, and lowering the age at which offenders are treated as adults for serious crimes to 14 from 16; A new anti-gang law that will list criminal organizations, and make conviction of a crime while a member of a listed organization subject to mandatory minimum jail terms; Tougher laws on drinking and driving; A ban on plea-bargaining of weapons charges; Automatic DNA sampling of crime suspects at time of arrest; Tougher border controls and stricter deportation policies; More resources for the RCMP. The Alliance will also call for tougher prison terms for crimes in which hard drugs like cocaine and heroin are involved, with mandatory prison terms for repeat traffickers. At the same time, it promises to pour money into drug treatment and rehabilitation centres across the country. But on soft drugs, the Alliance will call for a national debate and free vote in the House of Commons on the decriminalization of marijuana. That's a retreat from earlier plans to introduce a decriminalization policy on marijuana use. In fact, the plan to decriminalize pot was initially included in the overall Alliance platform released Oct. 5 but was dropped at the last minute. The Alliance will also retain its longstanding promise to kill the Liberal government's firearms registry. Day's party would keep a registry of sorts, requiring new weapons purchases to be documented, but would repeal fees for gun owners to sign up their weapons. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 17:29:10 -0400 From: Al Dorans Subject: Updates on Firearms Information Rallies + Sign Orders Dear Firearms Owner, With the federal election imminent, this is a suitable time to alert members of the recreational firearms community to the most immediate firearms information rallies and town hall meetings in Eastern Ontario. It would be appreciated if the large firearms organizations (CSS/CILA, NFA, OFAH) can arrange to have a representative at each rally to make the 5 minute membership appeals, to man the display tables and to remind their members in the local area to attend. The contact addresses for the organizing chairman appear below. Please spread the word of these rallies to friends. Since the messages and speakers will be constantly changing, try to support several rallies. This networking will be vital to electing CA members. Firearms Information Rallies/Town Hall Meetings in Eastern Ontario 6. Centerville(30mi NW Kingston) Oct. 24 Bob Monk Centerville Township Hall (Tuesday) Phone (613) 358-2964 Fax (613) 388-1196 7. Killaloe (west of Pembroke) Oct. 24 Cheryl Gallant Lion's Hall (Tuesday) 18 Lake Street, Killaloe Phone (613) 638-0213 8. Chesterville Oct. 30 Bruce Wicks Royal Canadian Legion #434 (Monday) Phone (613) 989-3146 Chesterville CILA Firearms Sign Campaign Orders The first run of CILA Firearms Signs will be going into production in the next few days. Since the expense for 36 double-sided signs was probibitive, we have decided to go with single packages of 25 double-sided signs. This makes a powerful media message when 5 rows of 5 columns are arranged in a 5 X 5 square on a large blank wall. Then the public can see a summarized message why gun owners have legitimate concerns and grievances. When reversed, 25 "Lest We Forget" Liberal Blunders will remind voters why the Liberals should be dismissed from office. Some groups may want to order 2 sets of signs so that both sets of messages can be communicated simultaneously. Thereafter, clubs will retain in their possession powerful and reusable tools for rallies, gun shows, demonstrations, etc. As Karl Schrader will be away for the next week or so, place your orders directly with me. The cost per package of 25 signs will be $120, plus shipping charges. Think ahead and order IMMEDIATELY so that you will not be waiting or disappointed, if subsequent runs are not possible. Professor Al Dorans Director of Operations, Ottawa Office Canadian Institute for Legislative Action / Institut Canadien pour l'Action Législative National Office: P.O.Box 44030, 600 Grandview St. S. Oshawa, ON. L1H 8P4 Ph: (905) 571-2150 Fax: (905) 436-7721 e-mail: teebee@sprint.ca Ottawa Office: 27 Cedar Grove Crt. Nepean, ON. K2G 0M4 Ph: (613) 828-8805 Fax: (613) 828-6967 e-mail: aldorans@magma.ca Home: http://www.cila.org A proud member of the World Forum on the Future of Sport Shooting Activities / Forum du Monde sur le Futur d'Activités des Sports des Armes à Feu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 12:36:43 -0600 From: awp@datanet.ab.ca Subject: Firearms If you are not aware of this site it is worth a look. Al http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/Recreation/AMA/AMA-Links.htm " FREEDOM " For those who Fought, Bled and Died For It " FREEDOM " has a FLAVOR THE PROTECTED will Never Know or Savor. Anonymous ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 14:49:03 -0400 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Oregon Gun Show Intitiative Won't Stop Crime http://www.oregonlive.com/oped/index.ssf?/oped/00/10/ed_61m5no13.frame ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 16:36:39 -0600 From: "Jim Hinter" Subject: Getting out the Message on Signs Across Canada, the leaves are turning to yellow, red or other pretty fall colours. The National Firearms Association wants to see a "Greener" Canada. That is why our new ECONOMICAL Campaign Signs are available. For $25.00 per hundred (Including shipping) you can help spread the word. To get yours, either call us at (403) 640-1110 -- 24 hours a day -- or download and order form from www.nfanow.com . Together, let's make sure that this fall, Canada stays just a little greener! Jim Hinter National President For more info ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 10:57:40 -0400 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: FIREARMS FIASCO PUBLICATION: The Toronto Sun DATE: 2000.10.19 SECTION: Sports PAGE: 131 COLUMN: Outdoors BYLINE: JOHN KERR FIREARMS FIASCO: As expected, the federal government has extended from Oct. 15 to Dec. 31 its offer of firearms Possession Only Licenses (POL) for $10. Next year, firearms licenses will cost $60. All firearms owners, however, must have a license or a valid Firearms Acquisition Certificate by Jan. 1, 2001. The bargain-basement POL price and simplified application form (fewer intrusive questions and police checks than the one for a Possession and Acquisition License) have greatly increased compliance, but caused a huge backlog of applications. The Canadian Firearms Centre (CFC) seems pushed to the limit to process about 50,000 licenses per month. Its Web site shows that 52,776 new licenses were issued last month, but there was a backlog of 367,574 applications, many not even opened yet. So one heck of a lot of firearms owners are not going to receive a license by Jan. 1, even if they have an application in the system. They simply can't all be processed in time. Yet police say you must actually have a firearms license in hand on Jan. 1, not just have applied, to be safe from possible criminal prosecution. If there's a fall election, the Liberal government, if re-elected, likely will extend the deadline for mandatory licensing past Jan. 1. Otherwise, it will have a legal public nightmare on its hands next year. The Alliance Party said it would go one step further by scrapping the present firearms regulations and replacing them with others that are less costly and fairer to legitimate firearms owners, such as hunters. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 20:29:41 -0600 From: "The Hutton's / Promo Image" Subject: LUFA discussion page LUFA has installed a discussion page that should be of interest to all Canadians on their website at www.lufa.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 22:16:05 -0500 From: "Keith P. de Solla, P.Eng" Subject: Re: Have Gun, Will Travel "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" wrote: > > PUBLICATION: National Post > DATE: 2000.10.19 > EDITION: Toronto > SECTION: Canada > PAGE: A13 > COLUMN: Have Gun, Will Travel > SOURCE: The Canadian Press > Carolina > HEADLINE: Mounties miss their man but get the gun - in a different country > almost 20 years later > A gun reported stolen in northern New Brunswick almost 20 years ago has > turned up in South Carolina. An 18-year-old who was arrested carrying the > gun last week had not even been born when the firearm was stolen during a > break-in at a home in Blackville, N.B., on July 18, 1981. The person who > legally owned the .22-calibre weapon has since died. "The break and enter is > unsolved and there were no arrests made," RCMP Sergeant Rick Votour said > yesterday. Neither police in Canada nor the United States know how many > criminal hands the gun may have passed through since the theft. Orangeburg > County police found the gun when they stopped a vehicle for a traffic > violation. They ran it through their computer and received a hit with the > Canadian Police Information Centre. The 18-year-old driver faces a number of > charges. The gun will be destroyed. > > Moderator note: Now that kind of service is worth half a billion dollars. > IRP oh, but see how handgun registration helped solve this crime and keep the firearm out of the hands of criminals? :-) - -- Keith P. de Solla kdesolla@shield.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 00:01:24 -0600 From: "Peter Kearns" Subject: Re: Question about illegal use of TAN's > Kelly Garner wrote: > Subject: T.A.N.'s > > Are the provincial judicial systems capable of putting charges forward > in regards the illegal use of T.A.N's (instead of the firearms center > issuing registration cards) or any other procedure? Peter Kearns wrote: Hmmmm... I guess people didn't read the numerous postings I wrote about the "Dealer Challenge." For Kelly's information I will go over the same ground again. First Kelly; there is no reason to try and prosecute CFR officials in Provincial Court, because that would gain you absolutely nothing. The only way you personally can prosecute is for you to file a private information. You may do this, (if you wish to waste your time,) at any police station or at any Provincial Court. Your information will then be passed on to the person acting for the Attorney General of your province. That person will decide NOT to proceed with your complaint, as (a) it would cost too much, and (b) they are too lazy to try and attack another level of government, and (c) the case would be referred to Federal Court anyway. Private informations from individuals are very rarely acted upon, and those that are must satisfy some really stringent criteria. In my case, financially supported by the NFA, (and ONLY the NFA,) as other national organisations preferred to offer "moral" support, my lawyer filed an action in Federal Court, which you may have heard about. It is commonly called the "Dealer Challenge," and seeks redress for the financial losses caused to Canadian firearms dealers, and also seeks to have the use of the illegal TAN's ruled unlawful and stopped. In my case, I sold 1,000 firearms a year before the Firearms Act was law, and sold only six in the following year. This was because I would not transfer firearms to anybody based on a voice on the telephone, and a device, (TAN) that had no status in law, being used as an illegal authorisation. Regarding the firearm transfer that triggered this action, I requested a letter (faxed the request,) from our CFO stating that neither I nor the registrant would be subjected to criminal charges for accepting the use of the TAN as lawful. KELLY.... THE CFO REFUSED TO PROVIDE THE LETTER!! (But did send a faxed TAN and ordered me to hand over the arm to the customer.) We replied that doing what they ordered would be illegal as they didn't issue an ATT, and the firearm they were trying to illegally transfer had only been in Canada for two days and wasn't verified, (a condition that must be met for restricted firearm transfers and required by the Act.) The customer cancelled the sale, and so my business lost money. We filed the lawsuit and demanded financial damages. (We have incontravertable evidence that we DID sell (average,) 1,000 firearms a year, and that we only sold six the year after the Act came into force. We have our Dealer Firearms Register, and that is legally accepted as evidence. (That is the only evidence that CFR checks when they audit a dealer, so it must be good!) Eight months after the cancelled sale, the CFR debited the former customer's Visa and then issued him a registration certificate which said he was the owner of the firearm. (Unfortunately, they never checked, or they would have discovered that the firearm was already sold to another customer, and registered in his name. So now we have a second provable example of the feds illegally transferring a firearm under the provisions of the Firearms Act, and issuing a fraudulent registration as well!! I am surprised that Kelly was unaware of this, or that he didn't know that attempting to proceed through Provincial Court is a complete waste of time, (but then a lot of my stuff is boring, so he may not have read it....) So in answer to your question Kelly, (above,) the answer is NO, and I hope this is the last time I have to restate the legal process rules and the system for filing private informations... I suggest that anybody who suffers a flash of inspiration check the archives, because most likely you aren't the first to have a great idea. As I said at the start of this article, the NFA is actively involved in the "Dealer Challenge" and has been right from the start. They collected donations for this legal fight, and would be grateful for any money you can spare to continue the action. In my opinion, the "Dealer Challenge," is our best chance of stopping the bureaucracy from criminalising Canadian gun owners by causing them to illegally transfer their firearms. We will win in Federal Court, and the feds will take it to the Supreme Court, where we will win again. We aren't talking property rights or questioning the authority of the government to impose laws on us, we are demanding that if they do, then they must also follow the laws they create, and that if they don't then they are liable for financial damages. regards, Peter Kearns Simon says: I hope Anne McLellan will enjoy the nice green posters that will "magically" appear beside her campaign posters... Another liberal dinosaur heading for extinction... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 00:25:51 -0600 From: "Peter Kearns" Subject: Re: Asian gangs will register their machine guns! The media reported: > > A Tec-9 fully automatic sub-machine gun sniffed out by a police dog in south > Edmonton is undergoing ballistics tests to determine its history, say > police. Peter Kearns wrote: I can save Edmonton's finest a little time and expense. The gun was definitely smuggled in, and arrived as a result of Kanada Kustoms being underfunded. It's history will be that it was legally purchased south of the border, sold at a gunshow and (surprise!) illegally converted and smuggled into the glorious peoples republik of Kanada. Considering the location it was found at, it IS an Asian gang weapon, and considering it was disposed of this way, (surprise, surprise,) our police will find that recovered cases from recent drive by shootings will indeed match. For our police officer's elucidation: The TEC-9 is sold legally in the U.S.A. as a semi automatic pistol. Nasty people converted them and many other similar types to full auto capability, and (surprise!) these small concealable sub guns are favourites of the drug lords and gangs in both countries. The Fireams Act won't stop the flood of this type of illegal weaponry and neither will customs. Due to financial constraints kustoms are only able to inspect about 4%-5% of the shipping containers entering the country, so Canada has now become the preferred import route for drugs AND GUNS destined for the criminal market in the U.S.A. Anne McLellan's "wet dream" has diverted $500,000,000 from agencies that could have slowed down the flood of illegal guns, while punishing lawful owners... and she will pay... Peter Kearns Simon says: The paid liberal hacks are already in damage control mode, claiming that the people in Annie's riding love her and will re-elect her... (snort, snort, guffaw...) Annie.... liberal money won't buy you this election, so watch out for the nice green signs... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 01:27:20 -0600 From: "Gordon" Subject: Re: Replays of 'Lorne Gunter Live' good! I have not been able to time it right so far! Gordon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 08:57:17 -0600 From: "Gordon" Subject: Re: Mount Trudeau Well Pat we are growing! Events largely ignored by the Firearms Community during the past 30 odd years have led to today's mess. The Recreational Firearms Community is in the process of catching up- suddenly realizing political events ARE about Firearms and our chosen sport! Our enemies have known this all along - patiently using little political manouvers to slowly disarm us. Suddenly we begin to realize there is some truth in the saying - that if we are not politically active we will be ruled by our inferiors! Pat, if we had spent some time tqalking about politics 30 years ago we would not be in this mess today. Bear with your fellows - these are trying, dangerous times for the Firearms Community! Gordon Hitchen Field Officer - NFA - Alberta. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 18:48:57 -0500 From: "W. Metner" Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #506 SO the gun will be destroyed instead of being returned to the man's heirs. I seem to recall the gun registration nazis saying how the registry would allow the return of stolen guns to their rightful owners. Another lie like we all knew it was, but ammunition if this is ever raised as an excuse for registration in a debate. - -- Regards W. Metner - ---------- >From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) >To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca >Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #506 >Date: Fri, Oct 20, 2000, 6:55 PM > > PUBLICATION: National Post > DATE: 2000.10.19 > EDITION: Toronto > SECTION: Canada > PAGE: A13 > COLUMN: Have Gun, Will Travel > SOURCE: The Canadian Press > Carolina > HEADLINE: Mounties miss their man but get the gun - in a different country > almost 20 years later ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 16:59:42 -0700 From: NCS BC Subject: A GREAT DAY FOR THE FIREARMS COMMUNITY AND "ALL CANADIANS/US PEOPLE". YES ! It is a great day !; It's here http://media-north.com/securityservices/ Once you read what is written here I believe and hope you will understand. Not only is this a testament to a great LADY "Ms. Michelle Traver", sole owner operator of SSAC. But to all Canadians and Americans who love and fight for "Freedom". As you will shortly read this is not just a "BUSINESS" but a center for "Freedom". Run by one of the most courageous, smart, honest and beautiful women [personal opinion] that many of us know and respect.. It is a testament to the honor, integrity, perseverance of all of us (embodied in one individual) who is in this OUR great fight for FREEDOM ! Freedom to buy lawful property. Freedom to own lawful property of our choosing. Freedom to use that property as we see fit [lawfully]. Freedom to lobby and fight for Fair & Just Laws for all. Not just for the laws of "Special Interest Groups" but common sense laws for all. Freedom to bring up our children, grandchildren, in a society that cares for each other. That is what is really represented here. So spread the word far and wide. those of you who are on the other main lists please put this message up and make sure that those who run those lists know that you stand for freedom and cooperation with everyone who fights with you. Do not let them ignore your forwarding of herein message. Hold their feet to the fire. ! ! ! Support this wonderful lady in her own great personal battle and by doing that support the battle "we all fight". Please do it now, for all our sakes and for the sakes of those who are still to come. The Truth Is Out There ! Research, Expose & Take it to the "People". Rod Bugaresti Get your Legal Protection from NCS BC, through SSAC. Before Its to LATE !!!! NCS BC [ Prov. Coordinato - Advocater ] Web site @ http://www.ncsbc.bigstep.com SSAC [Customer, Supporter, Advocate, Activists] Web site @ http://media-north.com/securityservices/ MAC SOG [Member-Coordinator] . Related Web site @ http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Acres/5472/path.html BCCPD [Member-Activist] , Web site @ http://WWW.BCCPD.BC.CA/ CIA {Contributor] Web site @ http://www.fas.org/2000/endtime1.htm S.P.A.R.C. of BC [Member-Supporter] SENSE {Contributor - Supporter - Activists} Web site @ http://sense.bc.ca/index.html " ORIGINAL" " 1970’s-NFA ORGANIZATION CONCEPT " [Supporter-Follower]. CANADIAN ALLIANCE [Member-Worker-Activist] Web site @ http://www.canadianalliance.ca/index_e.cfm Democracy Watch [Supporter - Contributor] Web site @ http://www.dwatch.ca/ HACS of BC [Member-Supporter-Activist] Vancouver Recovery Club {Member - Supporter - Co Advocate} Web site @ http://www.recoveryclub.com/index640.htm Focus:J Tell me and I may Forget Show me and I may Remember Involve Me And I Will Understand ! NCS BC wrote: > FINALLY ! ! , WE MADE IT !!!! J > > > Thanks TO a wonderful friend at Media North [Terry] "SSAC web master". > > Now that Security Services & Aids Co. is on the net hopefully the > business will > survive. If it does then NCS BC will have a "Secure Home" to operate > out of. > > SSAC on Line: > ..snip......... ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #509 **********************************