From - Thu Nov 23 10:57:49 2000 Received: from broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (majordomo@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca [198.169.128.1]) by skatter.USask.Ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA12850; Mon, 20 Nov 2000 20:38:28 -0600 (CST) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA20516; Mon, 20 Nov 2000 18:50:17 -0600 Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 18:50:17 -0600 Message-Id: <200011210050.SAA20516@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca> X-Authentication-Warning: broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca: majordomo set sender to owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca using -f From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #537 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Status: X-Mozilla-Status: 8001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 37247a250001bd17 Cdn-Firearms Digest Monday, November 20 2000 Volume 03 : Number 537 In this issue: Re: Can you say Republic of Western Canada? Yep! [none] [none] Bill C-68, the Court and the Crown. Re: FAC Test? Peter Kearns' commnets NFA Stands behind Air Gun Story A probably most unpopular view Re: CBC customs problem - who should I deal with/prosecute/sue? Future planning - census boycott if necessary ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 17:12:40 -0800 From: "gunsil" Subject: Re: Can you say Republic of Western Canada? Yep! - ----- Original Message ----- From: Don McPhail Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2000 12:20 PM Subject: >>> Can you say Republic of Western Canada? Don sez:So, fellow westerners, how are the prairies and B.C. going to get Home Rule ? By doing a "Quebec" ? Better stop flying those Red Ensigns. Better stop being reverential about the British connection. The Toronto Family Compact descendents just smile and wink when they hear that stuff. (J.L. Granatstein. Yankee Go Home ? Canadians and Anti-Americanism. Toronto: HarperCollins, 1996.) You site all the mechanisms used by disgruntled fringe elements in the west and phoney separatistes (tranfer payment blackmailers) in PQ. All these methods never worked as they leave a bad image for the movement and they are largely the result of small organizational elements. The Riel type separation is a dead horse. No, this time it will be the business sector and well heeled western Canadians who lead the charge. Those who are plundered most. This time it will be a financial/economic separation first. Actually, our trade patterns are already set up(US-West Can). All that has to be done to get Ottawa out of our hair is get people used to the idea of spending the plunder Ottawa squeezes from us here at home in the west. That essentiall cuts the blood supply off to the parasite. Most people will vote for their pocket book or with their feet. Right now, those easterners that are mobile are populating the west in an attempt to escape the pillage of eastern tax and spend socialist regimes. If it follows them here, they will move to the US to prosper. Those that can't because of capital investment, will opt to boot Ottawa out of the west. It Will happen. Not in the dramatic tems you describe. But it will happen. _______________________________________________ Why pay for something you could get for free? NetZero provides FREE Internet Access and Email http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 14:06:07 -0700 From: mrtintl@ccinet.ab.ca Subject: [none] To the editor, Edmonton Sun November 20, 2000 There's no doubt (to anyone that still has a functional brain), that there are vast regional differences in Canada. It is blatantly obvious that central Canada, (specifically Ontario) for the most part, is extremely satisfied with an endless liberal government. Perhaps this is because the majority of people Ontario revel in a constitutional monarchy? Or Perhaps they thoroughly enjoy the functions of the dictatorship? Both of which are so prevalent in Canada. However the same love of this constitutional monarchy is not present in the other vast important regions of Canada such as western Canada, northern Canada and Quebec. In these regions the citizenry strongly prefers a democracy. Therefore what has been happening, is that Ontario has forced the rest of the country to accept their choice as good for all. One has to remember that Canada is a young country, as such has not had the opportunity to sort out these differences. Most countries when faced with similar circumstances used a dispute settlement process called a revolution, or Civil War. In Canada we have seen neither, however the problems of serious regional differences and control still exist. If you look at world history as a guide you'll find that power and control never changes hands willingly. This changing of power and control is specifically what the alliance party and the bloc party are proposing. Therefore Ontario will never ever be party to this change, even if it is in everyone's best interest! It will never happened! So the next best alternative to that of the Civil War or revolution is a separation. I suspect very strongly that if the liberal government is again foisted upon the rest of Canada by Ontario. Separation will be a very viable and real issue for western Canada. This is not a bad thing, unfortunate yes, but not necessarily bad. As how long does anyone expect the subjects of the western, northern and Quebec colonies to remain complacent to the sole wishes and abuse of Ontario? Yours truly, Scott Middleton Edmonton AB. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 08:32:29 -0700 From: "Sterling D. Allan" Subject: [none] THEY (WHO) SEEK TO ESTABLISH SYSTEMS OF GOVERNMENT BASED ON THE REGIMENTATION OF ALL HUMAN BEINGS BY A HANDFUL OF INDIVIDUAL RULERS CALL THIS A NEW ORDER. IT IS NOT NEW AND IT IS NOT ORDER. - -- Teddy Roosevelt (Cited in Arizona Jewish Post, May 16, 1997) ======================= Digest of astonishing statements that build faith, inspire action, instill repentance, stir deep reflection, awaken the sleepyhead giants of Zion. http://www.GreaterThings.com/Wisdom/Quote/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 15:39:28 -0500 (EST) From: kingsley@freenet.carleton.ca (Kingsley Beattie) Subject: Bill C-68, the Court and the Crown. I have heard rumors that some up-tight members of the RFC suspected the Supreme Court was a wee bit unsympathetic to the provincial claim that the new Firearms Act, was a federal intrusion into their own areas of jurisdiction Others were heard whining when the Governor General awarded a Meritorious Service Decoration to Ms. Cukier, et al. I feel an obligation to tell these misled gunnies that the G.G. was merely rubber stamping a recommendation made by the Civil Advisory Committee. To the best of my knowledge no G.G. has ever rejected a nomination approved by the Committee. In an effort to convince the skeptics of the objectivity and equity to be expected from the Crown and the Court, I have listed the names of the Committee members. The Chair of the Committee is the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, the Right Honourable Beverley McLachlan. The members are Mrs. Peggy McKercher, C.M., Ms. Sheila O'Brien, C.M., Mr. Michel Gervais, O.C., and Mr. Kenneth Ozmon, O.C.. The latter were all appointed in June 1999. Please don't forget to vote! Kingsley Beattie - -- L45*23'10.9"North Lo75*40'00.6"West ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 03:00:44 -0800 From: Robert LaCasse Subject: Re: FAC Test? Heaven forbid, now nobody is stupid enough to point a firearm at the instructor, that is also almost physically impossible...actually, the muzzle was pointed in the opposite direction of the examiner... Most of the test as in scenarios, is hard to follow, as in the make beleive is so weird...I am used to the real thing like the rest of us, when I have fully checked a gun a bunch oof times in different scenarios, I forgot that the barrel has to be checked again in a different scenario, this happens with the same gun being used, but not when a different one is appointed. As a challenger, I walked in thinking all guns where ready to go and not de-warred, some are..so I got a little jumpy when an unfamiliar firearm is appointed....all 4 tests where 15 mminures max each... I passed last friday, and express-post mailed all the pix and quarantor stuff....maybe I MIGHT get the Temp FAC/PAL in around January.........I really envy the criminals on this standing, they would laugh at me to death, what a lot of hell tracking down an examiner week by week, appointments time stuff... Vote Alliance Chretien is a dork, his gun phobia is a bad disease not be reflected on greater individuals as us.... Next well have Chretien getting the Bildeberger/Clinton/Nazi H.A.A.R.P/Alaska Weather/mind control access to monitor the populace and votings. Beleive me, those magnetic Gigawatts are extremely powerful, they can do your HDDrive from anywhere on the sphere..but a lot of groups are monitoring it for the last 15 years of it's 35 year existence...just another trick! ciao Bob On Sun, 19 Nov 2000 21:43:08 -0600, you wrote: |>------------------------------ |> |>Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 18:47:57 -0500 |>From: "Glenn Springer" |>Subject: Re: FAC Test? |> |>> From: Robert LaCasse |> |>> From what I have experiennced so far, I would think the |>> instructor Victor of ISG is really into money, as far as the FAC |>> practical is concerned...His call was that a Right Handed person, I |>> was making some muzzle control mistakes to the RIGHT....Am I supposed |>> to beleive that I am double jointed or what??? There was no such |>> action! |> |>[snip] |> |>I'm not sure how to respond (this was directed at me) |> |>Are you saying that you failed because the examiner said you pointed the gun |>at him during the test? |> |>If that's true, you won't get a lot of sympathy here. |> |>Glenn |> |>------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 08:30:49 -0500 From: "Paul Chicoine" <701506@ican.net> Subject: Peter Kearns' commnets First off, an apology to subscribers of the Canadian firearms digest. The advances which have been made in the battle against C-68 have been arrived at in no small part by the efforts and information delivered by this digest. A corner has been turned and the relevance of the digest has been compromised. In conversation with a prominent member of the NFA, I am advised that he no longer bothers with the digest because of all the noise and nonsense. A more damming statement could not have come from our most visceral enemies; they will continue to lurk on this digest and harvest slurs to be used against us and our cause. It seems probable that Canadians are about to get the government they deserve and that government is no friend to our raison d'être. Faced with this it is clear we must redouble our efforts to shed light on the abuse against law abiding Canadians. Its clear a reevualation of what passes for digest content is needed. To this end I have made my comments below of the latest noise to arrive in my email. I hope it will be the last and I hope others will join me and express their concerns with the direction this digest is sometimes allowed to follow. Lets sort this out now because there is still much work to do. Can you say Republic of Western Canada? Peter Kearns wrote in reply: I emigrated to Canada 28 years ago and I dearly love MY country. However I can foresee that within Alberta, should the Liberals be returned on "Democracy Day," that there will indeed be a huge and growing clamour for the province to seperate. - -snip- Isn't it odd that when some in Quebec call for separation they are branded a bunch of bastards. Somehow its fine for Peter Kearns to call for a similar movement in Western Canada. Albertains want this and that ? Does Mr. Kearns speak for Alberta? At no time have a majority of Quebecois been in favor of separation. The last referendum came close because of wide spread vote fraud, especially in Chomedy. When Mr. Kearns declared that Quebec can just buzz off, he in one stroke writes off loyal Canadians who happen to live in Quebec. Chances are there are more federalist in Quebec than the sum population of Alberta. The west has no monopoly in alienation from the central power, we live under the purview of the Ontario federal government. Is this cause to slag Ontarians? No, the fault lies in the structure of the central government and the division of seats. Quebec gets what it gets because they have the fed's number and a population base to exert leverage. If Alberta or any other province wants to get Ottawa's attention begin with the income tax system and start to collect your own provincial income taxes. There is a notwithstanding clause, USE IT! This digest exist to discuss issues concerning firearms, both political and technical. Mr. Kearns diatribe addresses neither. This continuing trend makes the digest a burden to the goal of eliminate C-68 rather than a benefit. Minister Caplan makes a fool of herself with charges of racism etc, against supporters of the CA. Mr. Kearns helps to pour some gas on her fire with his bile. "Keep your replies witty." I don't think so, I had enough of this crap that tells me I can piss off from Canada. I love my country too, and my family have been Canadians since before New France was called Canada since 1670. No body, NOBODY IS GOING TO TELL ME TO PISS OFF OUT OF CANADA. - ----------------- Paul Chicoine (RSA) http://pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x26C2633F (DSS) http://pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x3B0DB246 Non Assumsit Contract, All Rights Reserved, Without Prejudice - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 12:52:00 -0700 From: "Jim Hinter" Subject: NFA Stands behind Air Gun Story Under the Firearms Act, a firearm is a firearm once the projectile leaving the barrel exceeds 500 feet per second. Using the new Lazorhawk pellets, which are 20% faster than current pellets, any airrifle or pistol which was rated at 400 feet per second and up is now a firearm. Those "new" firearms are now listed on the latest version of the FRT disk already in the hands of verifiers and gun shops. The NFA has listened to David Austin and Mike Buisson (Chief Superintendent of the Canadian Firearms registry) attempt to deny that this change affecting airguns has been done. There was no change in policy required in order that this change happened. All that was required was for the Firearms Act to be followed. Ms. Flumian, David Austin and Superintentent Buisson can deny all that they want. When you read what they are saying, all they state "There has been no change in policy". Again: "There has been no change in policy". What we have is the Canadian Firearms Centre, playing politics during the federal election. Adding one million people to the waiting list to get licences during the election is the last thing the government wants to do. It all comes down to a simple question: If the NFA, and Garry Breitkreuz MP are wrong: then why has the Firearms Centre invested all the time and effort and testing of all of these airguns and listing and identifying them on the FRT Disk? We understand that Ms. Flumian is upset over this. We fully understand that the Liberals would be upset over this getting out now -- it might affect their election hopes. Ask yourself, is the Liberals and the CFC really on the "side" of firearm owners? The National Firearms Association stands behind our story and Garry Breitkreuz Member of Parliament. Jim Hinter National President National Firearms Association ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 14:11:14 -0500 From: "Karl Schrader" Subject: A probably most unpopular view I am fully prepared to take all the flak directed my way after you have read the following: Leaving aside for the moment the unfairness, intrusiveness, dictatorial forcing of C-68 through Parliament by the Lie-berals, Orders in Council bypassing Parliament,disregard for (apparently non-existing) property rights etc.... here is the point I would like to have dissected: When the Government issues me a PAL or POL, certifying in effect that I am qualified and privileged, valid for 5 years and then renewable if I pay the protection money for staying out of jail and I did not commit a criminal offense, is this not in effect that the mob... eh the government is guaranteeing my safety from any intrusion by a SWAT team? Of course in addition, I would have to register all my property and remain under 10 pieces. In medieval times the peasants revolted against their rulers because these guys extracted 10% from the peasants of all the value, created by their hard labor, in order to stay in power. So, in other words, the government will leave me in peace as long as I pay, pay, pay....or if the sleepy, complacent Canadian electorate finally wakes up and the Alliance can bring some common sense to this country. It is a historical election alright, but history tends to repeat itself. Let's see what the verdict will be on November 27. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 21:38:22 -0800 From: Bill Farion Subject: Re: CBC > > Enright has racked up a fair number of complaints regarding his bias and > loud mouth. Some jeopardized the CBC's CRTC license renewal. In my opinion, > if you want to hear Enright's twisted world view pontificated, tune to a > station that can sell air time with arrogant skanks of his ilk on their > staff. He isn't going to trash my values with MY money and I CAN do > something about that. Hi; I have been complianing to the CBC for a couple years! It does not seem to help so long as they get listeners! I try and work on listeners who seem to think that CBC is GOD! They are a minority but they will scream bloody murder and threaten people if you COMPLAIN about CBC! Happened once on the Rafe Mair show in Vancouver! Cheers Bill (;-) ------------------------------ Date: 20 Nov 2000 09:02:10 -0800 From: Brian Drader Subject: customs problem - who should I deal with/prosecute/sue? I recently attempted to import a nonfunctional/deactivated antique firearm, a model 1878 Nagant. I've imported other antique handguns with no more hassle than simply declaring them at the border and paying GST. This time is different. The antique firearm (which was shipped, and reached canada customs) has not arrived. I recently received a telephone call from a man who identified himself as Heath Cushner and claimed to be a Revenue & Customs agent. He claimed (erroneously) that the deactivated antique firearm was a "44 or 45" (I can only surmise that he didn't actually check) ***restricted firearm*** and insisted that I would not be allowed to take possession of my goods until I provided him with a 'license and tan'. He referred me to the CFO's office. The CFO's office referred me back to customs and professed no knowledge of the situation. A gentleman by the name of Heath Cushner is also a Canadian Firearms Safety Course instructor - I've left a message on his answer! ing machine, which was not returned. I've received NO documentation to date despite waiting several weeks. To whom should I instruct my lawyer to deliver some holiday cheer? Cheers, Brian Drader ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 09:07:52 -0800 From: Boris Gimbarzevsky Subject: Future planning - census boycott if necessary While one hopes that Cretins lieberals will go the way of Mulroney's government on 27/11/2000, one should not underestimate the stupidity of the Kanadian sheeple, especially in the eastern part of this country. Thus, it is quite possible that gunowners will find themselves in a continuing battle with the forces of oppression for the forseeable future. One method to continue fighting C-68 has been put forth by CILA whose members have decided to make a very public display of not registering their guns and insisting on being arrested. I respect their means of fighting C-68, but I can't afford to run the risk of getting a criminal record as this would likely mean I wouldn't be able to practice medicine any more. I thus have to fight C-68 in public ways which may involve civil disobedience, but don't involve the risk of getting a criminal record. In 2001, the Kanadian government will be conducting a census, and the last time I looked, refusing to fill out a census form is not a criminal code offence (perhaps Richard Fritze can verify this). If Kanadian gun owners and their families were to refuse to fill out Kanadian census forms, this would have a huge impact on the government. Assume that only 15-20% of the population refused to fill out census forms; a fraction of the population that can be easily ignored by the lieberals during elections, but a fraction which will have an impact throughout the whole country when it comes to non-cooperation with the census. First, there will be the disruptions to the census bureaucracy which is organized under the assumption that virtually everyone will comply with government edicts. Second, various government grants are allocated based on the population of a given region as obtained from census data. A 15-20% change in funding for various government programs will be noticed b! y everyone. There are two ways of engaging in this form of civil disobedience; the first is to simply deface the form in the manner of ones choice and return it to the government and the second involves pseudo-compliance. The last census form that I completed was done in a combination of Cyrillic and hexadecimal codes of ascii characters -- nowhere in the instructions did it state I could not do this. I plan on providing the information asked for in census form, but it will be in the form of a PGP encrypted file. As Stats Kanada does not provide Kanadians with the data it gathers without payment of a fee, I will ask for a reasonable license fee, say $100,000 for each use of my personal census data, before I will provide Stats Kanada with the passkey to decrypt the PGP encoded text I will supply. Stats Kanada demands payment for access to any statistical summary data which it gathers by force from Kanadians, whereas the US government puts all data it gathers into cyberspace and this ce! nsus boycott could also serve to protest this additional tax levied on Kanadians who wish to access statistical data on a number of topics. I have wanted to update some writings I have done on Kanadian homicide rates, but have been unable to obtain the new data required (I don't have time to go to libraries anymore). I have no problems about going to court over refusing to comply with the census as, even if I go to jail for refusing to pay a fine, I haven't broken any sections of the criminal code and don't have to worry about continuing to practice medicine. Someone on this list made a memorable statement sometime this year (sorry that I don't have details of authorship) to the effect: "It's still to early to shoot the bastards, but it is too late to cooperate in any manner with them". Boycotting the Kanadian census is just the type of action that fits within this scheme and, should the Kanadian government not get the message, there are a lot more ways of disrupting the orderly functioning of bureaucracy before one progresses to the final means of resolving irreconcilable differences. Boris Gimbarzevsky ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #537 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:IParkinson@ccinet.ab.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v03.n198 end (198 is the digest issue number and 03 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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