From: 2001/01/04 20:04 Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #580To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Cdn-Firearms Digest Thursday, January 4 2001 Volume 03 : Number 580 In this issue: [none] Calgary Police [none] [none] [none] [Fwd: BOUNCE cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca: Approval required:] [none] Cougar chows down on CBCer RE: reply from Ducks unlimited [none] [none] [none] [Fwd: BOUNCE cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca: Approval required:] [none] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 23:09:15 -0800 From: lisa_simps0n@yahoo.com Subject: [none] (PST) Subject: waiting for MRI Imaging Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca One night you showed us about the government's 600 million dollar gun control system. The next night it's about Canadians waiting half a year for essential life saving medical tests. Can you explain to this simple taxpayer why the government thinks my grandad's rabbit gun is more important than my grandma's cancer? To me it looks like an irresponsible father buying himself a new snowmobile when the kids need shoes for winter. Lisa Simpson ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 21:24:10 -0800 From: Al Lapp Subject: Calgary Police Do you mean that those dumb cops in Calgary are going to arrest everyone that they see with a gun.He could have just as easily been taking it to a gun store for repair I have always respected the police in the past, but this sure makes me wonder. The best of the new year to all; Al ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 06:23:13 -0500 From: "ross" Subject: [none] The National Firearms Association, representing more than 100,000 owners, has refused since last June to engage in talks with the government. The above begs questions like.... does the NFA really believe that by not speaking with the government that it is truly representing its members? One does not have to agree with ones opponent to sit down and listen. I have alswys believed that you can be the hammer or the nail... but either way. you have to know what the building plan is. That means perhaps meeting with the Flumiens of the world and hearing what she has to say. it does not mean you have to comply, or roll over, . But by not attemnding any meeting, it is this writers opinion that the members are niot well served - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.225 / Virus Database: 107 - Release Date: 22/12/2000 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 18:43:38 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: [none] Subject: Letter: Gun owners target Firearms Act Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 08:11:55 -0500 Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca PUBLICATION: Times Colonist (Victoria) DATE: 2001.01.04 EDITION: FINAL SECTION: Voices PAGE: A11 BYLINE: Robin Watt SOURCE: Times Colonist Gun owners target Firearms Act In announcing the extension of the $10 reduced fee for a Possession Only firearms licence (POL) until Dec. 31, Justice Minister Anne McLellan stated ``we want to make it as easy as possible for Canadians to comply. We do not wish to see anyone inconvenienced, and thus we are encouraging people to take action immediately.'' The highly-contentious and widely unpopular Firearms Act is in deep trouble. Since the beginning of its implementation on Dec. 1, 1998, despite an outreach program and an extremely expensive advertising blitz begun last summer, only 1.8 million of the low-ball estimate of three million Canadian gun owners are licensed. Some 250,000 are holders of still-valid Firearms Acquisition Certificates issued before December 1998. Even if it had been possible to licence another one-million-plus owners before the end of the year, the task of registering from seven to 21 million firearms (and re-registering the 1.2 million restricted firearms currently registered) by the end of 2002 still remains. Registering an individual is one thing. Accurately identifying a single firearm which may have been produced in many variations by several manufacturers is quite another. The government is desperately trying to recruit a cadre of volunteer verifiers from the recreational firearms community. Given the average gun owner's antipathy towards the legislation it is unlikely there will be any great rush of volunteers, and the government will then have to resort to employing paid verifiers. This will dramatically increase the cost of implementation, which has already consumed $500 million of what was supposed to be an $85-million budget. Is it intransigent Canadian gun owners, believing that the ultimate aim of the legislation is confiscation of their property, making the program such a hard sell? If so, the blame must rest on the shoulders of the likes of former justice minister Allan Rock, with his ``only the police and the military should have guns'' and former foreign affairs minister Lloyd Axworthy who vigorously campaigned in the UN for a worldwide end to the private ownership of all types of firearms. Is the burgeoning bureaucracy of the Canadian Firearms Centre a part of the problem? In April last year a gentleman, widely respected for his contributions to the betterment of his community, applied for a Possession Only Licence. When he had not received it by early August he contacted the CFC and after several calls was informed that his application had been processed and returned to his provincial chief firearms officer for approval. He eventually penetrated the CFO office voice mail and was told his application had been forwarded to his area firearms officer. After three weeks he was able to contact his AFO and was given an appointment for the second week in September. On his arrival he was left to cool his heels for the better part of half an hour. When he queried the failure to issue the licence he was informed that it was on record that he had been abusive to a tenant five years ago! Thunderstruck, he informed the AFO that in his entire lifetime he had never had a tenant! His licence finally arrived in December with no explanation for the further delay. What is disturbing is that there is evidence that this type of occurrence is far from rare. Stories abound where bureaucrats in the licensing train have, until they have been challenged, failed to advise licence applicants that their applications have been refused or delayed. This is not getting the bugs out of the system, but rather evidence of deliberately delaying issuing licences, counting on individuals to simply give up trying to fight the bureaucracy. Licences have been refused, at least temporarily, where applicants have been arrested and released without charge and where the alleged offences had nothing to do with firearms or violence. How many of the much-touted 2,000 refusals or revocations of licences since December 1998 have been based on flimsy or non-existent evidence? How many have been based on calls on the infamous CFC snitch line where vindictive ex-spouses are free to assail their former partners without having to prove their allegations? Responsible firearms owners are no longer the drowsy pussycats of 10 years ago. Resistance to the Act is strong, articulate, will continue, and will only be bolstered by the million or so Canadians without firearms licences who became instant criminals on Jan. 1 despite a last-minute issuing of thousands of temporary firearms licences. What a shame the millions wasted on this obscene bureaucratic nightmare could not have been spent on medical research, women's shelters or more and better-equipped police on the streets! Robin Watt is a director of the Responsible Firearms Owners Coalition of British Columbia and chairman of the firearms legislation committee of the Nanaimo and District Fish and Game Protective Association. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 19:58:36 -0600 From: "William R. Sherman" Subject: [none] Subject: Ducks Unlimited Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 18:30:17 -0500 Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Here's the reply I recieved from DU, Dear Mr. Sherman: Thank you for providing us with an opportunity to respond to your concerns about Ducks Unlimited Canada's mandate. Obviously you have encountered information that misrepresents the very good relationship Ducks Unlimited enjoys with the hunting community. Ducks Unlimited conserves wetlands and associated habitats for the benefit of North America's waterfowl, other wildlife and people.As you rightly stated in your e-mail, we are very proud of the fact that Ducks Unlimited was started by conservation minded waterfowl hunters. It was the hunters strong desire to ensure the long-term success of waterfowl populations that formed the foundation of Ducks Unlimited. Continued support from the hunting community, and that from others interested in conserving wildlife habitat, combined with our proven ability to direct resources towards our mission has helped to establish Ducks Unlimited as Canada's most trusted and respected conservation organization. Our mandate has always been conservation and, as such, we do not have an official position on firearm legislation. However, we have not abandoned hunters. Hunting holds a position in our long-term vision for the organization and we are committed to supporting the tradition of waterfowling. Our board of directors will be meeting next month to define how we can use our resources to best support the tradition of waterfowl hunting at this time. If you have attended a DU event, you will have witnessed how important hunters are to our organization. Even beyond DU, hunters are significant funders and contributors to conservation efforts across North America. We appreciate you bringing your concerns to us and providing us with an opportunity to respond. Sincerely, ________________________________ Lauralou Cicierski Communications, Ducks Unlimited Canada ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 19:07:47 -0700 From: Ian Parkinson Subject: [Fwd: BOUNCE cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca: Approval required:] From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: SPECIAL BULLETINS FOR PROSECUTORS Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 14:36:07 -0500 Special Bulletin for Prosecutors No. 3 Grace Period for Licence Applicants http://www.cfc-ccaf.gc.ca/owners&users/bulletins/special/prosecutors/bulleti n3.html Special Bulletin for Prosecutors No. 2 The Firearms Act Coming into Force Dates and Supporting Materials http://www.cfc-ccaf.gc.ca/owners&users/bulletins/special/prosecutors/bulleti n2.html Special Bulletin for Prosecutors No. 4 Amnesty - Prohibited Handguns and Unregistered Restricted Firearms http://www.cfc-ccaf.gc.ca/owners&users/bulletins/special/prosecutors/bulleti n4.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 12:10:07 -0800 From: Bill.McGarry Subject: [none] Subject: cougar kills woman...what if I pack a "pump".. Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Ross asked, "what if I packed a pump...would it be a crime?" Yes Ross, it would be a crime. I've lived in both Jasper and Banff National parks, gun carry and hunting laws which apply else where do not apply in the National Parks "Kingdom"! Only wardens and some aboriginals are allowed to "legally" hunt. To the best of my knowledge, self protection with a firearm is not an option. The parks are operated like a fifedom, if they don't like you, you can literally be "kicked out of town". Perhaps David Tomlinson can expand on the subject of where we are entitled to pack our "pumps" for protection from animal attack. Cheers, Bill McG. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 16:13:25 -0800 From: "jim davies" Subject: Cougar chows down on CBCer > Subject: cougar kills woman > > A Alberta woman was killed by a cougar > just outside of the town of banff. > The park rangers shot the cougar after > the fact. Irony abounds. Descriptions of the feeding opportunity describe her as a CBC type, so obviously she would feel thrilled and priviledged to provide a meal to one of Ms. Gods divine creatures... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 10:21:37 -0500 From: "Andrew Amelia" Subject: RE: reply from Ducks unlimited Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Dear Mr. Amelia: Thank you for providing us with an opportunity to respond to your concerns. Unfortunately, the statements made by our executive vice-president in a recent Sports Afield article were taken out of context and misrepresented the very good relationship Ducks Unlimited enjoys with the hunting community. As you rightly stated in your e-mail, we are very proud of the fact that Ducks Unlimited was started by conservation minded waterfowl hunters. It was the hunters strong desire to ensure the long-term success of waterfowl populations that formed the foundation of Ducks Unlimited. Continued support from the hunting community, and that from others interested in conserving wildlife habitat, combined with our proven ability to direct resources towards our mission has helped to establish Ducks Unlimited as Canada's most trusted and respected conservation organization. Hunting holds a position in our long-term vision for the organization and we are committed to supporting the tradition of waterfowling. In the value statements we developed to define the items of key importance to Ducks Unlimited, we state that "the ethical and sustainable recreational harvest of waterfowl is a legitimate and acceptable use of a renewable resource." Our board of directors will be meeting next month to define how we can use our resources to best support the tradition of waterfowl hunting. As a DU supporter who has attended events, you have witnessed how important hunters are to our organization. Even beyond DU, hunters are significant funders and contributors to conservation efforts across North America. We appreciate you bringing your concerns to us and providing us with an opportunity to respond. Unfortunately, every large, successful organization has its detractors. Luckily, individuals like you question what you believe to be incorrect. Most sincerely, Lauralou Cicierski Communications, Ducks Unlimited Canada Andrew Amelia aamelia@nextdimensioninc.com Next Dimension Inc. 3290 Jefferson Blvd., Unit 202 Windsor, Ontario, N8T 2W8 Tel : 519-945-2032 Fax : 519-945-2082 Next Dimension US Inc. 1700 West Big Beaver Road, Unit 300 Troy, Michigan, 48084-3533 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 20:01:00 -0600 From: "D. Neil Graham" Subject: [none] Subject: Hamilton Spectator/Deborah Churchill Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 10:28:42 -0700 Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Did somebody from Hamilton educate Ms. Churchill about registration requirements? Was the drug-possessor really charged with not having a POL? Neil > ------------------------------ > PUBLICATION: The Hamilton Spectator > DATE: 2001.01.04 > SECTION: News > PAGE: A01 > SOURCE: The Hamilton Spectator > BYLINE: Deborah Churchill > > Hamilton man charged under new gun law > > Hamilton police say they are the first > to lay a charge under the federal > government's controversial new firearms > legislation which came into effect > Jan. 1. > A 27-year-old Hamilton man was charged > after police found seven unlicensed > rifles and shotguns in an east-end home > this week. The man was holding a > loaded gun when officers from the drug > and vice squad entered the house > during a drug bust. He did not point the > weapon at the officers. ........snip............... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 09:17:53 -0700 From: lundgark@telusplanet.net Subject: [none] At 06:25 AM 04/01/01 -0500, you wrote: > >if anyone in the etherzone of the >internet has firearms they don't want, >drop me a line, I will be pleased to >direct them to a good home (legally of >course) There is no way under the firearms act to legally transfer a firearm from an individual who has not applied for a firearms license or does not possess a firearms license. The transfer process requires the person in possession to have a license (after January 01, 2001). Any individual attempting to transfer a firearm and register it with the government as is required by law will be admitting to possessing a firearm without a proper license and incriminating themselves. Think about it for a minute. Karen & Jerrold Lundgard Peace River, Alberta mailto:lundgark@telusplanet.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 20:02:07 -0600 From: "D. Neil Graham" Subject: [none] Subject: ASWC Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 10:24:15 -0700 Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Unfortunately, Kathy will find that the newest activity of the ASWC was participation in the 1998 Ottawa rally. Enthusiasm seems to have waned soon after the last round of membership advertising. Too many other things to do, and too many other organizations needing help, I suspect, during these past months of bureaucracy and silliness. Hopefully, the organization will be rejuvenated, maybe as a division of the NFA. Neil > > > Does anyone know of a group that out there where women are speaking > > out and saying they own firearms and raise families, and want their > > children to learn to respect, not fear firearms. > > Hi Kathy. Try the Association of Women > Shooters of Canada at: > > http://sharongunclub.org/awscd.html > > ------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 19:11:31 -0700 From: Ian Parkinson Subject: [Fwd: BOUNCE cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca: Approval required:] From: John Evers Subject: London Free Press Rebuttal Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 11:39:40 -0500 Well, I managed to get a rebuttal to the Editorial of Dec 29th. Hope you folks like it. They printed most of my remarks and even cleaned up some of my punctuation for me ( English was never my strong suit in school. I have been trying to get a hold of some of the editorial board of the paper to arrange a face to face meeting to discuss our side of this issue as they seem to be becoming a mouth piece for the Feds. I will keep you posted on how I make out. Gun registration a costly waste of time. Regarding the editorial, Poor aim, right target (Dec 29). Let's deal with this collection of misinformation on a point-by-point basis. Firstly there are more than 6 million law abiding gun owners in Canada, not your reported 2.2 million. There are over 1.2 million registered handgun owners alone. In 1978 the official figure was 10 million, but with the continued attacks on lawful firearms owners over the past 22 years this number has dropped, but not as much as the folks at the CFC contend. They constantly downplay these numbers in a vain attempt to improve their performance ratings, which remain abysmal. The cost figures will always be in doubt but have at least exceeded 550 million so far for the program to date.( a program that was guaranteed to be scrapped should it surpass the 125 million mark). It does not help when the government continually hides costs in the name of secrecy. ....................snip.................. The editorial compares our rates of firearms ownership to countries such as Japan, Australia, England, Germany and New Zeeland. It is interesting to note that in ALL cases massive programs of confiscation were used to achieve these reduced rates of ownership. In ALL cases rates of firearm crime have also increased dramatically. It is true that suicide by firearm has been diminished; however, the total number of suicides remained unchanged. People just used other methods. It would behoove The Free Press to research both sides of such a divisive issue before taking a stand. Remember it is not paranoia when they really are out to get you! John Evers Jr. President: East Elgin Sportsmen's Association www.eesa.ca jevers@axiom.on.ca 519-633-2761 ( home ) 519-671-7205 ( mobile ) 519-685-1540 ( office ) Regards John Evers ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 20:04:18 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: [none] Subject: BUT WHAT IF THEY DIDN'T? Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 11:24:23 -0500 Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Dear Ms. Stewart: Thank you for advising us that "Firearm Licence Assistants were instructed to take down the names of everyone who used their services to complete and submit a licence application." But what if they didn't do as they were instructed? Apparently, they were also instructed on how to take proper photographs but not all the assistants did as they were instructed. Dennis Young Parliamentary Assistant This is the action taken for the Enquiry (E20011485055) made by Dennis Young (BreitG0@parl.gc.ca ) on 01/03/2001 DATE OF RESPONSE : 01/04/2001 RESPONSE TO ENQUIRY : Dear Mr. Young: Thank you for your request for information. Firearms licence assistants were instructed to take down the names of everyone who used their services to complete and submit a licence application. We can refer to these records if there are any doubts about whether someone submitted an application on time. Yours sincerely, Glenda Stewart Communications Group Canadian Firearms Centre. QUESTION ASKED : A number of constituents have called with a similar complaint. CFC officials either neglected or refused to provide receipts when firearm owners completed their firearms applications at the licencing assistance centres set up in many shopping malls across the country. These firearm owners have not received any acknowledgement from the CFC that their application has been received, they have not received any licence (temporary or permanent) and the CFC is unable to advise them of the status of their firearms licence applications. How are these people supposed to prove to police that they applied for a firearms licence before the deadline? Dennis Young BreitG0@parl.gc.ca Parliamentary Assistant for Garry Breitkreuz, MP (Yorkton-Melville) Room 640C - Centre Block House of Commons Phone: (613) 992-4394 ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #580 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:IParkinson@ccinet.ab.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v03.n198 end (198 is the digest issue number and 03 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) If you find this service valuable, please consider making a tax-deductible donation to the freenet we use: Saskatoon Free-Net Assoc., 1702 20th St. West, Saskatoon SK S7M OZ9 Phone: (306) 382-7070 modem lines: (306) 956-3700 and (306) 956-3701 Home page: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/ National Firearms Association (N.F.A.) Box 4384, Station C Calgary AB T2T 5N2 ph.: (403) 640-1110 fax: (403) 640-1144 mailto:nfainfo@nfa.ca Web site: http://www.nfa.ca/ DONATIONS GRATEFULLY ACCEPTED! Automatic, monthly donations may be made to the N.F.A. by sending postdated cheques, or your Visa/MasterCard number and expiry date, to the Membership address above, along with the amount you would like to donate: $5, $10, or another amount. Automatic donations may be cancelled at any time. N.F.A. memberships: families: $40; seniors: $25; individuals: $30; businesses: $50. Included are regular issues of the N.F.A. newsletter Point Blank, as well as magazines like "Canadian Sportsman". Add just $4.75 per person for $5,000,000 insurance! Clubs: get associate memberships for just $3 per member ($45 minimum) and members will be still eligible for $5,000,000 liability insurance for just $4.75 each! These e-mail digests are free to everyone, and are made possible by the efforts of countless volunteers. Permission is granted to copy and distribute this digest as long as it not altered in any way.