From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca on behalf of Cdn-Firearms Digest [owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca] Sent: Monday, 02 April, 2001 08:13 To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #702 Cdn-Firearms Digest Monday, April 2 2001 Volume 03 : Number 702 In this issue: [none] Ottawa Citizen New weekly firearms related newslatter Billboards RE: Manitoba's major initiative on billboards Re: File transfer Moderator - Re: Canadian Safety Council Police Terror NEW UPDATES to NFA Web Page Billboard Campaign PDF now Available Re: Billboards and other things CGC complaint.... Fw: Apology to Al Doran's Re: Billboards CILA Response to Fred Smith ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 10:58:46 -0400 From: jwt@uwindsor.ca Subject: [none] ********************************************************************** Winram wrote: > "The Manitoba NFA had a major initiative ongoing in Manitoba placing > billboards all along Manitoba highways. Old semitrailers were used with the > NFA logo and words to the effect of "Gun Control is NOT Crime Control" and > etc. painted the full length of the trailers." > > *** Here, I TOTALLY DISAGREE! The general public, like it or not, is > AGAINST NFA, and will ignore/avoid anything that has its name/logo on it. > You will never get the general public to change their minds when the > comments come from what "they" consider the lunatic fringe. This has been > the wrong tactic all along as I have said for years. All NFA does is preach > to the converted, not the millions, and millions of fence sitters and > sheeples. THE "CAPS" HERE ARE ONLY TO DISTINGUISH MY RESPONSE FROM THE ABOVE INTERCHANGE. WHAT DOES LINDA TOTALLY DISAGREE WITH.... THE TIE TO THE NFA, WHICH I CAN UNDERSTAND HER POINT TO A CERTAIN EXTENT ...OR THE USE OF SEMI TRAILERS TO PUT OUR MESSAGE ON. LETS NOT THROW OUT THE BABY WITH THE ...... THE SEMI TRAILER IDEA IS WORTH PURSUING. IT ALLOWS FOR MOBILITY WE CAN LEAVE SIGNS ATA LOCATION FOR A MONTH THEN MOVE TO ANOTHER LOCATION. IT ALSO ALLOWS US TO PLACE OUR MESSAGE IN PLACES OTHERWISE NOT AVAILABLE. I THINK THE IDEA OF HAVEING MOBILE SIGNS IS A GREAT IDEA. JUST WHAT WE PUT ON THE SIGNS AND HOW WE REFERENCE WHAT TO DO IF YOU AGREE ARE FOR PORFESSIONALS TO DETERMNE FOR US.....NO???? ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 10:56:50 -0600 From: "John E. Stevens" Subject: Ottawa Citizen DISSENT A CRIME IN CANADA: TOP LAWYER Quebec City is becoming a fortress city once again -- 21st century style. A three metre-high fence, barricades, helicopters and 5,000 police armed with batons, pepper spray, tear gas and rubber bullets are all part of the unprecedented security arrangements for the Summit of the Americas in April ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 10:35:18 -0600 From: "David M" Subject: New weekly firearms related newslatter A new weekly firearms related newsletter. DM http://www.gunweek.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 10:33:17 -0600 From: "Winram" Subject: Billboards Re Digest # 700: If "Linda" were to reexamine my posting she would possibly realize that I was advocating use of "retired" semitrailers as convenient superstructures for billboards. My commentary regarding past use of a particular slogan or the NFA logo was merely reporting what had been billboard content in a past program in Manitoba. Any suitable signage wording can be agreed upon from this day forward by a signage committee. Meanwhile I remain a proud member of The NFA and am always at pains to act in such a way as to enhance our credibility as a legitimate organization of responsible citizens. We need to educate the public about our movement and issues and about The NFA itself. Not hide it away from the public view like it was something dirty. Lex Winram, ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 12:04:14 -0600 From: "Larry Neufeld" Subject: RE: Manitoba's major initiative on billboards While the Trailer Project was a major initiative for the Manitoba NFA we were only one of many groups that participated in the project. Credit for the success of the Manitoba Trailer Project belongs collectively to every group, organization, and individual that participated. I don't have a list of the participants, but I'm willing to bet that there are quite a few Cdn-firearms-digest readers that can relate their organization's involvment with this project. "Working together we will WIN!" Larry Neufeld VP Communications NFA Manitoba >On Friday, 30 March 2001 Winram wrote: > >The Manitoba NFA had a major initiative ongoing in Manitoba placing >billboards all along Manitoba highways. Old semitrailers were used with the >NFA logo and words to the effect of "Gun Control is NOT Crime Control" and >etc. painted the full length of the trailers. I and many others thought it >was quite an effective vehicle for promoting our message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 12:48:45 -0600 From: "Brad Thorarinson" Subject: Re: File transfer > Anyone able to give me directions on ftp_ing a large file (5+ MB) to an > individual? > > Gordon Hitchen > acardin33@home.com > I'm not an expert, but the file transfer facility of ICQ seems the best if you can arrange to be online at the same time. It seems robust and simple to use. www.icq.com if you don't already have it. Other possibilities, in decreasing desirability (IMO): - The sender could install an FTP server and email the other with the IP address and file name & location. - There are web servers that offer free storage, the sender could upload to one of these and the recepient could then download; This would not require both to be online at the same time. - Email attachment. Attachments are encoded in a fashion that expands them a fair bit which slows down both upload and download. Also, mail servers may or may not like something that big. Brad ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 13:12:40 -0600 From: "John E. Stevens" Subject: Moderator - Mr. Moderator, I'll try this again. Seems the url got stripped out. From the Ottawa Citizen comes this rather interesting article - some interesting observations from Clayton Ruby. - - - - - DISSENT A CRIME IN CANADA: TOP LAWYER Quebec City is becoming a fortress city once again -- 21st century style. A three metre-high fence, barricades, helicopters and 5,000 police armed with batons, pepper spray, tear gas and rubber bullets are all part of the unprecedented security arrangements for the Summit of the Americas in April. http://www.ottawacitizen.com/national/010401/5015034.html Moderator : here it is again: I did not deliberately strip it. GPH ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 17:29:27 -0600 From: Boris Gimbarzevsky Subject: Re: Canadian Safety Council Jeff Gurnsey writes: >It would seem to me that Mr. Therien is his own worst enemy. And maybe Mr. >Therien has been ignoring "the facts" in the gun control debate in this >country. Although Mr. Therien's article relates to drunk driving, it could >not be a more classic example of double standards and hypocrisy when >compared to his views on C-68. That was a very interesting piece of writing, and if Therien was someone who was susceptible to logical thinking, it could be used against him. However, I don't believe he is susceptible to logical thinking, a common defect in most of the anti-gun crowd. Emotion is far more important than logic in their arguments and they have to be countered on that level. One of Therien's other lies in this area was that "firearms are the most dangerous consumer item available". I was playing around with a rather rusty chainsaw last weekend (probably a very good thing it didn't start) and got to thinking about chainsaws. I consider them to be far more dangerous than firearms, yet one does not need to undergo any training course to use one, there are no storage requirements for them and one can buy one just by plunking down the cash on a store counter. If anyone has stats on chainsaw injuries and deaths I'd be interested in seeing them. Given the emotionality that surrounds guns, I'm sure that if someone walked into a university engineering classroom with a chainsaw and proceded to attack people with it, there would likely be a call for stricter firearms regulations. Boris Gimbarzevsky ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 19:54:14 -0600 From: "fred smith" Subject: Police Terror I couldn't help but feel the pain, when I read in CFD 701, about what those kids went through when they were arrested and held at gunpoint. The sad part is this happens in Canada all the time!!! In 1976 my wife was an attempted murder victim, three times by the same perpetrator, in Montreal, before the Police finally got serious about catching the idiot. All the while, I was not allowed any sort of weapon to protect her, nor was she allowed any sort of spray. Against the law you know, and we could get charged and go to jail for possession of an illegal weapon!! So we were told by the police!!! This summer my 20 year old daughter was the subject of a stalker who threatened to "get her" if she did not cooperate and go with him. When the police, in Ottawa, would not take this issue serious I had to intervene, at which point they told me I would get arrested if I went after this guy, because they did not want to! When I told them it was him or me, they finally went and got the culprit but reported back to me that he was not dangerous and that this was the first time he had done something like this. Guess what!! Three days later the stalker tried again only this time a different Officer got involved. When I told him the facts and that I was going to do his job, he immediately went after the stalker, and "Guess What", the stalker had a record of previous attempts and subsequently was deported back to his native country, after being here for only six months, and by the way, the same country where my wife's perpetrator came from!! The sad part of this story is that as a Canadian, I had to threaten to take the law into my own hands at the risk of being arrested; so I was happily and promptly informed by the Police. It was only after this that something was done, all the while the innocent victims, meaning me, were being targeted by our Police as being "HOSTILE"". Canada eh!!! And they want to control us with gun registration; neither of the perpetrators had registration of any sort did they?? Well, actually one had a criminal record but it seems some cops can't find that; I guess because that isn't registration!!!!!! Fred Smith Rockland, Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 19:56:36 -0600 From: "Jim Hinter" Subject: NEW UPDATES to NFA Web Page Organization: National Firearms Association Visit the National Firearms Associatin Internet Web Page www.nfa.ca We have added several new features, induding a contact page for Members of Parliament, a new Firearms Links Page, information on NFA 2001, our Annual General Meeting and more! Happy Browsing! Jim Hinter National President ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 20:14:09 -0600 From: "Jim Hinter" Subject: Billboard Campaign PDF now Available For those who have requested a form which they can use to let people know about the Billboard campaign we have created an adobe pdf file which you can print off on your computer. If you would like a copy please send an e-mail to billboards@nfa.ca The page is also on the NFA Web Site at www.nfa.ca/billboards.html Thanks! Jim Hinter National President ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 21:13:01 -0600 From: "Paul Chicoine" <701506@ican.net> Subject: Re: Billboards and other things >*** Here, I TOTALLY DISAGREE! The general public, like it or not, is AGAINST NFA, and - -snip- I tend to agree with this. Not because most Canadians know anything about the NFA or the gun laws but because the CGC has done a good job of confounding the public and indeed the media into having NFA / NRA as interchangeable terms. >From the p-o-v of the average cannuck NRA is a big bad assault rifle slinging mob, decidedly un-cannuck. Back to billboards and websites. a link could always be called "fiasco68.com" easy to remember and fiasco is the same in English and French. Keep it simple with some well drafted -short- essay and then a list of links. I've had fiasco68@hotmail.com as a b/u email addy for years, I would be willing to surrender it. __________ Paul Chicoine (DSS) 0x3B0DB246 *Illegitimi non Carborundum* Non Assumsit Contract, All Rights Reserved, Without Prejudice ________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 21:53:58 -0600 From: "Linda & Rory" Subject: CGC complaint.... Below is one of the emails I have involving CGC. People really need to complain, as I mentioned I think they have a quota before they remove the official status. If the yuks at CGC hear what is happening via their snoops on this digest, they could continue to ignore it, or they could decide to finally "comply with the law". At the very least, it should be insisted that they comply with the law. Then again, if they choose not to, perhaps they will find some of the other "significant monitors" of this digest will stop their funding and make them accountable. But should we be surprised that they are choosing NOT to be accountable, considering their links to the Libs and the Chret? P.S. -- perhaps next post I should list all their directors for everyone to see? Linda ================================== > Date: Wednesday, May 03, 2000 06:21:16 > From: Jacques.Elaine@ic.gc.ca > To: Linda & Rory Jordan > Subject: RE: Corporation Question > > Mrs. Beaudry is away for several days I am answering her e-mail. > 1. Pursuant to the provisionss of section 133(9), a corporation that has for > two consecutive years failed to file an annual summary required, the > Director may give notice to thecompany that an order dissolving the company > will be issued unless within on year after the publication of the Notice in > the Canada Gazette the company files a summary in request of those two > years. > > 2. Where default is made in holding any annual meeting as provide under > subsection 102(1) of the Canada corporations Act, the court in the province > in which the head office of the company is situated may, on the application > of any shareholder of the company, call or direct the calling of an annual > meeting of the shareholders. > > 3. Financial reports are required to be filed by profit corporation > distributing their assets to the public. Non profit corporation are not > required to file financial statements with our Directorate. > > 4. A non-profit corporation provides a list of their directors when filing > its annual summary. If it does not file an annual summary then we do not > have the most recent information. The Director could give notice to the > company that he will dissolve it if the annual summary is not filed. > > 5. Should you wish to file a formal complaint in writing, concerning a > corporation, should be sent Robert Weist, Director Compliance Branch, Jean > Edmonds Tower South, 10th floor, 365 Laurier Ave. West, Ottawa Ontario K1A > 0C9. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Beaudry, Michelle: CORP > > Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2000 8:43 AM > > To: Jacques, Elaine: CORP > > Subject: FW: Corporation Question > > > > Corporation #2861071 Corporation Name(s):CANADIAN COALITION FOR GUN CONTROL Annual Return/Annual Summary(AR/AS) Number of Shareholders: Annual Meeting (Last): Enforcement Code:Reminder Notice Sent (Default Notice) Enforcement Date:1996/11/01 Taxation Year End: AR/AS Filed: Sent - 2000/10/15 Sent - 1999/10/15 Sent - 1998/10/15 (Note -- the word "Sent" indicates that a notice was sent to them -- but no "reply" has been received -- when a reply has been filed, the status is changed to the word "Received") ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 22:30:29 -0600 From: "fred smith" Subject: Fw: Apology to Al Doran's - -----Original Message----- From: fred smith To: Canadian Firearms digest Date: Friday, March 30, 2001 4:28 PM Subject: Apology to Al Doran's The following message was sent to Al Dorans by myself, because I felt that my original post about Al Doran's survey did not read in the manner in which I intended. Under no circumstances do I support negativity or attacking someone in a public forum such as the CFD. It is important to me that all readers of the CFD realize that my message was not intended to be antagonistic or in any way reflect a bad attitude towards Al or CILA. Al has not yet asked me to apologise but I am doing it publicly anyway, in order to send the message to others that unsatisfactory writing and/or behaviour on the CFD should not be tolerated, nor is it in the better interest of our goals and aims as a gun owners' fraternity! - -----Original Message----- From: fred smith To: al dorans Date: Friday, March 30, 2001 9:33 AM Subject: My Post To The CFD I was re-reading my post to the CFD this a.m. re: your survey and it, my article that is, smacks of negativity, which, for me, is unsatisfactory. My intent was not to write the way it reads so, if you share my sentiments, after reading it, let me know and I will post an apology. I cannot stand causing trouble publicly, especially when it comes to our gun issue and I am not trying to start now, but I am troubled about the way my article reads. The point of my message was to get everyone on side as to the understanding of your "lawful and peaceful" message and also to garner help in determining the costs of rallies versus billboards. This came about after considering CILA, LUFA, etc., and wondering how we become all one, in terms of the direction to take collectively( not joining as one organisation), and in that when I look at LUFA for example, I see this as unlawful in that ultimately someone could end up in jail. Having said this I do believe this might be necessary and does this fit the " lawful and peaceful" category of CILA or are we working at diametrically opposed ends? Anyway, let me truthfully know how you read my article, because if it reads to you the way I read it this a.m., I will post an apology, not just for you but to make sure that all readers of the CFD do not think I am one of the problematic types, as we already have enough of that crap!!! Cheers, FRED From: "fred smith" To: "al dorans" Subject: Message Well, it did go through to you but I'm not sure why it does not show as an attachment, rather than a continuation of my message. Anyway, I tried!! Cheers, FRED P.S. I used to be a computer programmer in the early seventies, now I'm a dinosaur with a short term memory loss and cannot even learn the basics of this computer. Great Life eh!!! Next thing I know I'll be eating grass, or did dinosaurs do that?? ............................................................................ ...... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 22:33:33 -0600 From: Ron Watson Subject: Re: Billboards Another idea for the billboards. Top heading- "One billion dollars spent on the useless firearms boondoggle" with caption...."Would you rather get rid of these" over a picture of a Hells Angle driving away on a motorcycle and a picture of a MRI machine with caption "would you like more of these"? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 08:12:03 -0600 From: Al Dorans Subject: CILA Response to Fred Smith CILA Defending Canada's Heritage ............................... Dear Firearms Owner, I appreciate Fred Smith's recent posting, his important questions and the sensible way in which they were expressed. When writers are concerned about the tone of their letters, this sets a good and caring example for others to follow. Fred asks for clarification of " lawful and peaceful program of national resistance and dissent to an unjust law, Bill C-68." The long answer will be contained in the "Canadian Firearms Action Campaign" which is currently being developed in consultation with key leaders in the RFC. This is a program inviting all firearms owners and organizations to cooperate in national opposition to C-68. The short answer is that gun owners do not have to register all of their firearms until January 1, 2003. In the meantime, they can unite their efforts in lawful and peaceful ways to repeal and replace C-68. Civil disobedience involves deliberately breaking the law, as in refusing to license self or failing to register any or all guns. Those would be criminal offences subject to ridiculous maximum penalties of 5 or 10 years in jail. On the other hand, resistance and dissent involve working within the law to demonstrate opposition to an unfair and unjust law, as in waiting to the last possible minute to license self and register firearms. Those are our rights and we should exercise them. Canada's major firearms organizations have consistently advised gun owners to be law-abiding. Nevertheless, non-compliance with licensing is sky high, despite fairy tales to the contrary from the DOJ/CFC. Millions of innocent Canadians have become instant criminals for doing absolutely nothing. This is obscene. The black and gray gun markets are booming, as predicted. Non-compliance with gun registration is expected to be even higher. Lorne Gunter Edmonton Journal has written, "C-68 is the greatest act of civil disobedience in the history of Canada." What can the RFC do together, legally and peacefully to protest and sink C-68 Titanic? That is the nature of the upcoming "Canadian Firearms Action Campaign." In response to Fred's questions, a thorough evaluation of the FED UP II Rally, showing strengths and weaknesses, was conducted in Bulletins #42-#47, following the Rally. The overall cost was around $45,000. Before decisions are made about any program, a thorough evaluation of the strengths and weaknesses of each strategy should be conducted by key decision makers. Since the topic was raised by Fred, the example of firearms rallies is appropriate: Some Strengths of Rallies · Liberals hate large rallies, as they expose federal failings and threaten re-elections. · Rallies unite the RFC by building more leaders and better communication networks. · Rally infrastructures are essential in all municipal, provincial and federal elections. · Cumulative rallies unify English and French gun owners across the country. · Rallies communicate C-68 dissatisfactions to gun owners, Canadians and the world. · Rallies educate gun owners to the changing requirements and dangers of C-68. · Rallies build a political power base to elect and un-elect politicians. · Rallies motivate gun owners to political action before, during and after the rallies. · Rallies expose the ineffectiveness, cost and waste of an unjust law, C-68. · National FED UP I and FED UP II Rallies showed the RFC is growing stronger, not weaker. · Rallies affirm our rights to self-defense and to own firearms. These aren't privileges. · Rallies confirm the supremacy of pro gun scientific research, subject to peer review. · FED UP I (21,000) and II (30,000) were the largest political protest rallies in Canada. · Spontaneous rallies (with signs) carry the strategic advantage of total surprise. Some Weaknesses of Rallies · Media coverage can be sporadic and biased. · Rally messages can be hijacked and distorted by anti gunners. · Rally returns may not be worth the financial costs, energy and efforts expended. · Rallies may be ignored by a determined PM and a majority Liberal government. · DOJ/CFC propaganda and bogus polls may mislead the majority of Canadians. · Late donations do not allow for sufficient advance advertising to draw huge numbers. · Huge rallies require sufficient preparatory time to organize. Because rallies have not led to the immediate repeal of C-68 does not mean we should abandon rallies, any more than we should stop writing letters. A diversified and relentless attack, like a diversified investment portfolio, is the wisest plan. In a recent Digest posting Rob Johnson wrote: "There is no substitute for people on the Hill, there is no substitute for writing your MP, there is no substitute for hounding the press." A national FED UP III Rally is like a single stout oak in the forest. A national writing campaign is a second stout oak in the forest. A national billboard campaign is a third. The Canadian Firearms Action Program is an attempt to observe the greater forest and not be obscured by individual trees. Professor Al Dorans Director of Operations, Ottawa Office Canadian Institute for Legislative Action / Institut Canadien pour l'Action Législative National Office: P.O.Box 44030, 600 Grandview St. S. Oshawa, ON. L1H 8P4 Ph: (905) 571-2150 Fax: (905) 436-7721 e-mail: teebee@sprint.ca Ottawa Office: 27 Cedar Grove Crt. Nepean, ON. K2G 0M4 Ph: (613) 828-8805 Fax: (613) 828-6967 e-mail: aldorans@magma.ca Home: http://www.cila.org A proud member of the World Forum on the Future of Sport Shooting Activities / Forum du Monde sur le Futur d'Activités des Sports des Armes à Feu ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #702 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:acardin33@home.com List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v03.n198 end (198 is the digest issue number and 03 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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