From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca on behalf of Cdn-Firearms Digest [owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca] Sent: Wednesday, 04 April, 2001 08:18 To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #708 Cdn-Firearms Digest Wednesday, April 4 2001 Volume 03 : Number 708 In this issue: Billboard Campaign Authorization to Transport Prohibited Long Guns CIVIL TRIAL Signature Parentheses {---} [none] stuff Congress Mend Teen charged for pointing a paintball gun Montreal: 3 hurt in bar shooting GRITS, ALLIANCE TRADE SHOTS OVER GUN REGISTRY Man shot at basketball game in Pickering high school PAPER GUN CASE THROWN OUT ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 00:48:49 -0600 From: "Gordon Hitchen" Subject: Billboard Campaign From: "Tom Ritchuk" Subject: Billboard campaign Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 20:25:52 -0400 My cheque has been sent out. I like it. Do it well. Place the signs strategically. Word them so = they generate discussion topics at every possible gathering and they = become the Albatross around every despicable Liberal's neck. Tom ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 00:46:31 -0600 From: "Gordon Hitchen" Subject: Authorization to Transport Prohibited Long Guns From: Peter Cronhelm Subject: Authorization to Transport - prohibited long arms The Surete is making things up. Last year I got more than half a dozen such permits here in Alberta. Peter Cronhelm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 00:43:44 -0600 From: "Gordon Hitchen" Subject: CIVIL TRIAL From: "davelind" Subject: CIVIL TRIAL Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 16:29:30 -0600 Hi just a note on my civil suit on the federal govt. I Dave Lind & family were traveling from Kenora to Calgary last may.We loaded all our belongings into a 1988 ford school bus along with 5 50 cal rifles and a few handguns.The OPP in Kenora put out a cpic to watch me and if contacted for them to contact the OPP. The RCMP in Swift Current put us throught a nightmare and resulted in charging me with 5 endictable charges. I called the NFA who with Richard Fritze as my lawyer won the case and the judge ruled that the search and seisure was illegal and everything else they did was wrong.Anyone wanting to read the court decision can read it on the NFA web site. We have just filed a civil suit against the federal government to teach the RCMP that gun owners have rights.This case is going to cost considerably and as I have just moved to Calgary and my other legal costs we are looking for assistance in any way.The NFA said it is out of their area of expertise. Anyone willing to help in any way please contact Dave Lind & family General Delivery Bragg Creek TOL-OKO Phone-403-949-5604 Email=-dave.lind@3web.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 00:52:51 -0600 From: "Gordon Hitchen" Subject: Signature Parentheses {---} From: Robert LaCasse Subject: Signature Parentheses (---) Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 17:49:23 -0700 Does anyone remember, if a signature is then put in Parentheses (---), that it legally nullifies the Validity of the Signature.... If so, then how much "weight" does it carry.... I signed all the legal stuff when I was arrested..that way, just in case.... Bob On Tue, 3 Apr 2001 08:36:36 -0600, you wrote: |> |>In this issue: ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 00:45:15 -0600 From: B Farion Subject: [none] Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #704 Hi; Does anyone have an electronic copy od Addled Annies "befudlement" article that appeared in the Edmonton Journal last weekend? I think it would be helpfull to a lot of people! Thks Bill (;-) Cdn-Firearms Digest wrote: ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 00:48:38 -0600 From: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: stuff Congress Mend who have committed various crimes and other acts of moral turpitude. Example: [Collected on the Internet, 1999] 29 members of Congress have been accused of spousal abuse, 7 have been arrested for fraud, 19 have been accused of writing bad checks, 117 have bankrupted at least two businesses, 3 have been arrested for assault, 71 have credit reports so bad they can't qualify for a credit card, 14 have been arrested on drug-related charges, 8 have been arrested for shoplifting, 21 are current defendants in lawsuits, Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca And in 1998 alone, 84 were stopped for drunk driving, but released after they claimed Congressional immunity. (from Capitol Hill Blue) And these are the People who make Laws that We MUST obey? Your tax dollars at work! Origins: The 535 men and women (100 Senators and 435 Representatives) who comprise the United States Congress are the core of our democratic system -- the people we elect (and pay) to represent us to our federal government and make the laws that regulate our society. We therefore somewhat unrealistically expect them to be paragons of virtue, selfless public servants dedicated to the task of making our country a better place for everyone, into whose heads the very thought of wrongdoing never intrudes. Congressmen are mere human beings, however, and so some of them exhibit the same flawed behaviors as some of us: they lie, they steal, they cheat on their spouses, they put personal gain ahead of public service, they line their pockets at the expense of those whom they are supposed to serve, etc. None of this should be surprising to anyone but the most naive among us. What is surprising is that so many people willingly circulate the above-cited piece of cheap, inflammatory tripe expecting it to be taken seriously. No names or dates are mentioned, of course, so trying to match individuals with the vague charges levelled in this text would be a fruitless task (especially since the composition of Congress changes at least every two years, and the piece is undated). In any case that effort would be pointless, for this article is nothing more than a cheap smear: no one in it is cited as actually having done something wrong, but merely of having been "arrested" or "accused," or being a "defendant," or having been "stopped." Isn't our system supposed to be based upon the presumption that a person is innocent until proved guilty? One can be arrested without being convicted of a crime (or even being charged with one), so the mere mention of an arrest with no other detail is meaningless. And when did these alleged arrests of Congressmen occur? While the arrestees were serving in Congress? While they were running for office? Before they became politicians? When they were juveniles? Thirty-two arrests and no convictions should probably make us more concerned about problems with our law enforcement and legal systems than it should about the people who make up Congress. The claims that numerous Congressmen have been "accused" of various wrongdoings is even more specious. "Accused"? By whom? Journalists? Jealous rivals? Bitter ex-spouses? Childhood enemies? Muckrakers? Gossip mongers? I suspect that every single member of Congress has been "accused" of something bad at one time or another. By what standards does an accusation become "serious" or "official" enough to merit inclusion in this list? Even the entries that contain some marginal detail are too vague to be relevant. We're told than 117 Congressmen "have bankrupted at least two businesses." What does that mean? Were all 117 personally and solely responsible for driving thriving businesses into the ground, or were they merely nominal board members of companies that went belly up? Were these businesses large companies, or the equivalent of mom-and-pop shops run out of someone's home? More importantly, is failing at business in today's volatile business environment supposed to be considered a moral failure as well as an economic one? Is being a successful businessman a prerequisite for being a legislator, or is it a sign or moral turpitude that should automatically disqualify one from office? 21 Congressmen "are current defendants in lawsuits"? What kinds of lawsuits? What are the merits of these lawsuits? Are these Congressmen supposedly being sued for infractions such as breach of contract, or merely because some cranky neighbors don't like they way they painted their houses? 71 "have credit reports so bad they can't qualify for a credit card"? Heck, a single late payment can ruin your credit report these days, assuming your spotless rating hasn't already been done in by completely erroneous information mistakenly placed on your record by a credit reporting agency. And despite common public perception, Congressmen incur some considerable financial obligations as part of their jobs without receiving tremendously large salaries in return, so if some of them had trouble making ends meets, that wouldn't make them much different than many of us. 84 Congressmen "were stopped for drunk driving, but released after they claimed Congressional immunity." Again, being "stopped" is in itself no indication of wrongdoing, and the Constitution (Article I, Section 6) gives Congressmen privilege against arrest while Congress is in session (in order to prevent others from using the power of law enforcement to intimidate them). Although protecting members of Congress against traffic tickets may not be exactly what the Founding Fathers had in mind when then crafted Article I, how many of us would disdain a constitutional protection to avoid trouble with the law? Would any one of us, even if he were guilty of a crime, not challenge an unwarranted search of his home performed in violation of the Fourth Amendment? I doubt many of us would stand on niceties if we had "Get Out of Jail Free" cards we could play, either. All that said, this list wasn't made up out of whole cloth. The information was taken from a series of articles that appeared in an on-line publication called Capitol Hill Blue (whose motto is "Because nobody's life, liberty or property is safe while Congress is in session . . .") in August 1999, and gained widespread currency when a brief summary (stripped of what little supporting evidence the articles had in the first place) was irresponsibly run in a syndicated "weird news" column with no clue as to where the reader might find the source material on which it was based. What appears in the original Capitol Hill Blue articles doesn't exactly validate the list by any responsible journalistic standards. The series includes lengthy articles about four of Congress' worst offenders, a screed about how Congressmen have "a long tradition of corruption and ambivalence," and a heap of vague innuendo. We're told that "117 members of the House and Senate have run at least two businesses each that went bankrupt, often leaving business partners and creditors holding the bag," but no detail about who these members were, the nature of the businesses that failed, why the businesses failed, or who was left "holding the bag" (and for how much). We're informed that "seventy-one of them have credit reports so bad they can't get an American Express card," but we're provided with no details about whom or why. Have these people been kiting checks, did they absent-mindedly make a few late credit card payments, or were they innocent victims of credit reporting agency screw-ups? And since when is not qualifying for an American Express card the standard by which "bad credit" is judged? I probably couldn't qualify for an AmEx card because I don't have sufficient income. Does that mean I have "bad credit" unquestionably caused by personal fiscal irresponsibility? Most everything found in the Capitol Hill Blue articles continues in this vein. "Twenty-nine members of Congress have been accused of spousal abuse in either criminal or civil proceedings," it says. Well, at least we know the "accusations" were made in the context of court cases, but they remain nothing more than accusations nonetheless. Were any Congressmen actually convicted of spousal abuse, or did any of them have to pay civil damages because of their abusive behavior towards their spouses? You won't find out from Capitol Hill Blue. "Twenty-one are current defendants in various lawsuits, ranging from bad debts, disputes with business partners or other civil matters." Is this really supposed to have any significance in a society where people can and do sue at the drop of a hat, often for the most frivolous of reasons? How about telling us who was successfully sued, and why? That effort appears to be beyond the ability (or the inclination) of Capitol Hill Blue staff. Why ruin a good story with pesky facts, after all? As we mentioned at the outset, members of Congress are human beings just like the rest of us, and thus they're subject to the same foibles as everyone else. This doesn't mean that we should meekly accept the wrongdoings of some of them as par for the course or turn a blind eye when they break the law, but neither does it mean they aren't entitled to the same considerations and protections as the rest of us -- including the right to be tried in a court of law rather than a court of public opinion. Many of our Congressional representatives are in fact dedicated, hard-working public servants, and tarring them all with the same brush of anonymous, vague accusation does no one any good. "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem" the adage goes. Save your efforts for rooting out those who truly breach the public trust instead of wasting time and energy in smearing an institution and everyone who comprises it by passing this cheap bit of scandal-mongering netlore along. Last updated: 2 January 2000 The URL for this page is http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/congress.htm Click here to e-mail this page to a friend Urban Legends Reference Pages © 1995-2001 by Barbara and David P. Mikkelson This material may not be reproduced without permission ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 08:18:05 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Teen charged for pointing a paintball gun CATEGORY:Ontario-Quebec regional news DATE: 2001.04.03 HEADLINE: Teen-weapons charge WALLACEBURG -- Police say a is still a -- no matter what it shoots. That's the message from Chatham-Kent police who charged a Wallaceburg teen after a paint ball was pointed at another youth last night. It happened during an argument on a public (Wallace) street. The has been seized and the teen is charged with pointing a firearm, having a weapon dangerous to the public and assault with a weapon. (CKSY) - --- RN ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 08:18:12 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Montreal: 3 hurt in bar shooting PUBLICATION: Montreal Gazette DATE: 2001.04.04 EDITION: FINAL SECTION: News PAGE: A4 SOURCE: The Gazette - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- 3 hurt in bar shooting - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- A shooting in a male strip bar in the heart of Montreal's gay village early yesterday wounded three men, two of them seriously. The shooting happened at 12:10 a.m. during a ``ladies' night'' in Adonis strip bar on Ste. Catherine St. About 50 people of both sexes were in the bar when an altercation broke out involving four men at neighbouring tables, said Constable Natalie Valois of Montreal Urban Community police. One of the men pulled out a and shot several times at two brothers he was arguing with. The shots hit the two brothers and a bar doorman who was standing in the line of fire. The shooter and his companion then fled in a red Toyota Corolla. The two injured brothers also fled. They called police from the safety of a friend's house on Cartier St., Valois said. One of the brothers and the doorman were badly wounded. Police have not made any arrests but they have a good description of the fugitives provided by many witnesses, Valois said. Police are also examining a security camera tape. The first man was described as a mulatto about 6 feet tall, weighing about 200 pounds, with short-cropped hair. His companion was a white male, about 5 feet 8 inches tall, weighing about 200 pounds. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 08:17:52 -0600 From: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: GRITS, ALLIANCE TRADE SHOTS OVER GUN REGISTRY : The Edmonton Sun DATE: 2001.04.04 SECTION: News PAGE: 14 SOURCE: Edmonton Sun BYLINE: Doug Beazley KEYWORDS: Federal Government; Weapon; Legislation; Canada - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- GRITS, ALLIANCE TRADE SHOTS OVER GUN REGISTRY - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- The federal government and the Opposition are butting heads over new numbers that appear to show extremely low compliance rates for the feds' gun law in the West. Alliance MP Garry Breitkreuz put out his own estimates yesterday of the number of gun owners who've obtained possession licences under the Firearms Act. Breitkreuz's numbers show a steep slide in compliance from east to west, ranging from a high of 87% in Newfoundland to a low of just 40% compliance in Alberta. "What this shows is that a very large number of Canadians are openly flouting the law," he said yesterday. "Gun owners who didn't get their licences by the (Jan. 1) deadline are in a catch-22 now, because they can't come forward to get licences without giving the government the evidence to lay a criminal charge against them." The federal government, meanwhile, insists the numbers tell a different story. Breitkreuz based his estimates on a 1998 government memo estimating the number of gun owners in Canada at just over three million. "That document is old and out of date," said Canadian Firearms Centre spokesman David Austin. "The government spent $93,000 and surveyed 6,000 Canadians, and we found that the most recent estimate of the number of gun owners is about 2.3 million. "And we've issued two million licences, not 1.9 million." Breitkreuz has said the feds are deliberately lowballing their estimate of the gun-owning population in order to make the gun law look more successful than it is. "All we're arguing about now is the extent of (the law's) failure," he said. Al Bohachyk, head of the Alberta Federation of Police Associations, said the fact many gun owners are openly defying the law brings it into public disrepute. "That high rate of non-compliance is plausible," he said. "The law isn't being enforced now and police services don't have the resources to enforce it. Many police services just don't see it as a priority." ------------------------------ Date: 2001.04.04 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Man shot at basketball game in Pickering high school - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- Man shot at basketball game in Pickering high school; Province-wide alert issued after victim hit at least four times - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- Two people have been arrested and one is being sought after a person was shot several times during a night-time basketball game at a Pickering high school yesterday. A dispute arose in the middle of the game and one suspect pulled out a and began firing, police said. The victim was shot at least four times when a fight broke out at Pine Ridge Secondary School on Liverpool Rd. N. at about 9:20 p.m., said Durham Region police Acting Staff Sergeant Joe Bennett. "Somebody got upset at somebody else during a basketball game and shots were fired," Bennett said. "I believe the victim was hit many times. I have no idea if it was an organized game or a pickup game. "People were seen running from the school and getting into cars." Bennet said a province-wide alert has been issued for a suspect believed to have fled the scene in a car after the shooting. "A lot of people were seen running into cars and we're having trouble interviewing those people," Bennett said. "It's unknown if the male we are looking for is connected to the shooting." The victim was taken to Sunnybrook hospital. Police were searching a rural part of Pickering in the Altona Rd. and Taunton Rd. area after three suspects fled from a car following an accident during a police pursuit. Tracking dogs and officers from three forces Durham and York regions and Toronto were called in for the search checking ravines and farm sheds in the area. Adult learning classes at the school had just ended when the shooting occurred. The school is equipped with three gyms, five fields and an outdoor track. Located in the north end of Pickering, the school has pictures of its mascot a puma and its colours maroon and gray on its walls. ------------------------------ Date: 2001.04.04 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: PAPER GUN CASE THROWN OUT - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- World Brief - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- PAPER GUN CASE THROWN OUT A Superior Court judge in New Jersey yesterday threw out a case against two 8-year-old boys charged with making a dangerous threat by pointing a paper at classmates. ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #708 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:acardin33@home.com List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v03.n198 end (198 is the digest issue number and 03 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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