From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca on behalf of Cdn-Firearms Digest [owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca] Sent: Wednesday, 04 April, 2001 19:09 To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #710 Cdn-Firearms Digest Wednesday, April 4 2001 Volume 03 : Number 710 In this issue: McLellan befuddled by angry West Information commissioner wins bid to view secret cabinet files PARKS CANADA GUN DECISION What the NFA does. Was "Re disagreement" Linda's got the right idea Correction by David B. Kopel Ottawa Citizen 4 April 2001, C3 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 10:14:47 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: McLellan befuddled by angry West PUBLICATION: Edmonton Journal DATE: 2001.03.31 EDITION: FINAL SECTION: News PAGE: A1 / Front BYLINE: Norm Ovenden SOURCE: Journal Ottawa Bureau DATELINE: Ottawa ILLUSTRATION: Colour Photo: Journal Stock / - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- McLellan befuddled by angry West - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- is frustrated. After eight years in government, the justice minister admits she is no closer to understanding what alienates Western Canada. The senior cabinet minister for the region is struggling to figure out why westerners perpetually turn their backs on her Liberal party and stay so skeptical about the federal government. It's a dilemma riddled with contradictions, she says. ``That makes it so very hard to figure out,'' McLellan says during an interview in her Parliament Hill office. ``If you're looking for a magic bullet, forget it. There isn't one.'' McLellan laughs at her naivete for thinking when she was first elected in 1993 that her party's perpetual poor fortunes in the West were poised for a turnaround. For the first term of that mandate, Ottawa's agenda matched the wishes of most westerners and the polls looked promising. The focus of the second three-year mandate, begun in 1997, was similar to that of the popular provincial government of Ralph Klein -- eliminate the deficit, reduce debt, cut taxes and reinvest in the public's social priorities of health care and education. The electoral results? Klein won landslides, while nationally, in both the 1997 and 2000 elections, western voters showed their appreciation for federal Liberal accomplishments with the back of their hands. The electorate stuck with the opposition in the western-based Reform and Canadian Alliance parties. The lack of western representation in majority Liberal governments attracted bigger and bigger headlines about the dangers of western alienation. ``It's very complex,'' McLellan says. She can't define the ``nebulous'' problem, let alone outline a solution. ``This is a conundrum.'' Of course there are frustrations in a region so far from the country's capital, she says. But there are grievances in Atlantic Canada, too, as there are in all large federations. Demands for institutional change have their strongest roots in the West, yet none of the governments in the four western provinces has gone out of its way to reflect that interest by implementing populist approaches like recall or citizen-initiated referendums, or sought constitutional changes to reform the Senate, the Edmonton MP points out. Is it just Liberals who are unpopular? McLellan points out that the Mulroney Conservatives were sacked by irate western voters despite powerful western representation in cabinet by the likes of Joe Clark and Don Mazankowski. McLellan can't point to any specific measures contemplated by her government to combat the as- yet-undefined alienation. ``We are clearly seized with the issue. As a Liberal party, we clearly see the challenge. You would have to be blind not to see it in provinces like Saskatchewan, Alberta, and British Columbia. ``One of the things I've learned about historical baggage is you don't acquire it quickly and you don't lose it quickly. It will take time.'' Some steps have already been taken to increase the government's visibility and to avoid making policy mistakes that might further alienate the west. A parade of cabinet ministers has marched through the four provinces in the past few months and Calgary lawyer Raj Chahal has been hired to filter government initiatives through a western perspective. ``It's not about changing one concrete policy,'' McLellan says. ``It's about day after day regaining the trust of people who, whether we agree with them or not, have lost trust. That takes time and effort.'' Preston Manning says the government is on the wrong track by neglecting fundamental changes he has been advocating for 15 years to address regional grievances: Senate reform and democratic reform to let MPs be more accountable to constituents. ``Those are simple things, but they so self-evidently make a positive contribution to this problem,'' says the former Reform party leader. ``Any government that says it's concerned about regional alienation and doesn't have an interest in reforming Parliament or the Senate, I think, is insincere.'' Federal efforts to spur the energy industry will highlight Jean Chretien's April 6 speech in Calgary to the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers. The prime minister will also be encouraging Premier Klein to assume a more active leadership role in national affairs as Alberta prepares for its 100th anniversary, McLellan says. ``There's more we can do. ... Alberta's frustration comes from the fact that their role as nation builders has not been adequately respected and reflected.'' ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 11:49:41 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Information commissioner wins bid to view secret cabinet files PUBLICATION: The Ottawa Citizen DATE: 2001.04.03 EDITION: FINAL SECTION: News PAGE: A3 BYLINE: Janice Tibbetts SOURCE: The Ottawa Citizen - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- Information commissioner wins bid to view secret cabinet files - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- The Canadian public could gain insight into the reasons behind federal cabinet decisions following a court ruling yesterday in which Canada's information commissioner won a bid to pry open files that have been kept secret. Federal Court of Canada Justice Edmond Blanchard declared the government tried to circumvent the will of the Trudeau government of the early 1980s by refusing to release papers explaining the reasons behind one of cabinet's environmental decisions. The ruling is a victory for Information Commissioner John Reid, who took up the challenge three years ago when the government refused to release certain discussion papers to a company called Ethyl Canada. The ruling could prove to be a blow to federal decision makers, whom critics contend have been excessively secretive in keeping documents from the public. The Ethyl Canada case began in April 1997, when the federal government passed a bill banning international and interprovincial trade of the fuel additive MMT, saying it had potentially dangerous effects on the environment and human health. In an attempt to find out about the decision, Ethyl Canada, which made the additive, applied to Environment Canada for the relevant cabinet files. The case revolves around a clause of the Access to Information Act of 1982. The act decrees that cabinet files be kept secret for 20 years, with only one exception. Documents called ``discussion papers,'' which are designed to help cabinet ministers make decisions by supplying ``background explanations, analyses of problems or policy options'' are subject to release. According to the act, these papers are supposed to become public as soon as cabinet has announced its decision. Judge Blanchard found that Ethyl Canada had a ``well-founded'' complaint under the legislation when its request for information was rejected. Francis Fox, the federal minister who sponsored the bill, clearly intended certain types of cabinet files to be released by stating to Parliament that ``we want discussion papers to come out, that we want the factual basis on which decisions are taken to be made public,'' said the 34-page decision. At issue was whether the papers in question fit under the realm of ``discussion papers.'' Judge Blanchard, noting the purpose of the access law is to give the public greater access to the inner workings of government, said although the files sought by Ethyl Canada did not officially bear the name ``discussion papers,'' they still contain the same information. ``In my view, the court cannot ignore evidence that points to the existence of information containing background explanations, analysis of problems or policy options contained within the four documents declared to be cabinet ,'' said Judge Blanchard. Justice Department lawyers failed to convince the court that the documents sought by Ethyl were part of ``cabinet '' that they maintained also should have been precluded from a court challenge. David Sgayias, a lawyer for the federal government, said an appeal is under consideration. ``Our position is that Parliament has indicated that memoranda to cabinet and other sorts of documents are not covered by the Access to Information Act and are not to be released.'' - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- Click here ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 11:51:49 -0600 From: "Bob Lickacz" Subject: PARKS CANADA GUN DECISION The Firearms Act allows people in certain professions to carry a sidearm, WITH A GET OUT OF JAIL FREE card called an Authorization To Carry (ATC). I don't understand why Parks Canada wardens can't simply apply for an ATC personally. They would have to have a valid FAC/ PAL /POL, and buy / supply their own sidearm. These guys are Peace Officers and are certainly in need of protection (from both 2 legged and 4 legged animals) that only a firearm can provide. Perhaps the solution is to ask the Honourable Ms. Copps to for a ridealong on a Saturday night of a long weekend. Bob Lickacz NFA Edmonton ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 16:18:44 -0600 From: "Jim Hinter" Subject: What the NFA does. Was "Re disagreement" Frankly, I could not let a message such as this go unanswered. I respect the original writer's right to free speech and freedom of expression, however I thought that adding a few facts would help clarify the truth. I am not sure exactly who wrote the original article, and frankly, it doesn't matter. My thoughts follow what was said.... > ** Here, I TOTALLY DISAGREE! The general public, like it or not, is > AGAINST NFA, and will ignore/avoid anything that has its name/logo on > it. > You will never get the general public to change their minds when the > comments come from what "they" consider the lunatic fringe. This has > been > the wrong tactic all along as I have said for years. All NFA does is > preach > to the converted, not the millions, and millions of fence sitters and > sheeples. Claim: The General Public is against the NFA and will ignore/avoid anything that has it's name or logo on it. My question; Is this based on anything other than conjecture? Last November, the National Firearms Association, and our supporters distributed a quarter of a million copies of the November issue of POINTBLANK to Canadians across the west and in Ontario. >From that effort, we received dozens of requests for more information about the National Firearms Association, literally tens of thousands of "hits" on our Web page. There were over 117,000 hits to our web page last November. www.nfa.ca averaged 165 "hits" per hour last November! We received, from Canadians across the areas covered, many letters expressing support for our stand on The Firearms Act. We did receive five letters denouncing hunting, firearm ownership and firearm owners in general. Claim: "All NFA does is preach to the converted, not the millions, and millions of fence sitters and sheeples." The NFA has run advertisements in newspapers with circulations of over 100,000, like the Western Producer. We have additional ads planned for this spring. We have run large ads in major newspapers, like the Ottawa Sun. We have done media interviews around the world on this issue. Do we talk to firearms owners? The "Converted"? Certainly!! I liken the idea of "preaching to the converted" to the efforts put forward each and every Sunday by churches around the world. If the effort was not worth it to the church, do you really think that they would do it? It has been, and is by, the support and efforts of the "converted" that we continue to grow. It is by the efforts and dollars of the "converted" that we can reach out to the public, firearm owner or not. Is this helping? I think so! This assertion is not based on conjecture, it is based on facts. The NFA has continued to grow, dramatically, over the past four years. Right now, the National Firearms Association is in the midst of a major upgrade to our Web Site www.nfa.ca We are averaging 130 "hits" per hour right now on our website. Today, April 4th, we have (as of 11:00AM MDT) received 13962 hits this month. Through the course of the average month, the telephones in our National Office and Legal Office, receives abut 50 inquiries per day from across Canada. 50 x 30 = 1500. Just this week, we recived a call from The British Government. This call was from a department in London seeking our help to help a British Company seeking to export products to Canada. They had been refered to the NFA from the British High Commission offices in Ottawa. This of course does not include the many telephone calls our provincial executives field. In the course of the average day, the e-mail volume in our Calgary Office is over 200 messages per day. If this is "the lunatic fringe" like the author tried to claim in their message... I will welcome it! Jim Hinter National President National Firearms Association ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 15:28:13 -0700 From: allister.muir@ns.sympatico.ca (Allister Muir) Subject: Linda's got the right idea Hi Fighting the firearms act is promoting firearms organizations. We do not have the hearts and minds of firearms owners, let alone the public. I worry about showing gun owners that we are doing something before worrying about the rest of the public. Regardless of the content of billboards they will be recognized as pro gun. The NRA in the states has two things 1) Gonads 2) Power . Number 2 is derived from number 1. As we in typical Canadian fashion in all things, struggle to walk the line between the US and British model, we end up somewhere in the middle. In my mind a good place to be in most cases. In the firearms case we are too close to the British model and I tire of it. The situation demands a shift away from the middle ground, towards the US model. Get in their face and stay in it .The government is continually shifting the line in the sand. They get low compliance, they drop gun owner estimates. They will do the same with registration figures. It is time to draw a line in stone. Al ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 16:25:54 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Correction by David B. Kopel Dear David: Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca I have forwarded your correction to all the recipients of my first e-mail. Dennis Young Parliamentary Assistant - -----Original Message----- From: David Kopel Sent: April 4, 2001 5:45 PM To: BreitG0@parl.gc.ca Subject: Re: Column: These foundations fund mass murders Dear Mr. Breitkreuz: Could you please inform your mailing list that I did not "contribute" to the April 3, 2001 article in the Whitehorse Star by Jane Gaffin -- despite what the article claims. I have never seen this article before. I have no recollection of ever having spoken with Ms. Gaffin, and I have never heard of her before. Sincerely, David B. Kopel >From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" >To: "Firearms Digest (E-mail)" >Subject: Column: These foundations fund mass murders >Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 09:06:03 -0400 > >PUBLICATION: The Whitehorse Star >DATE: 2001.04.03 >SECTION: Opinion >PAGE: 6 >COLUMN: Comment >BYLINE: Gaffin, Jane > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - >---- > >These foundations fund mass murders > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - >---- > >Ed. note: the first part of this two-part commentary was published Monday. > >Almost three years to the day in Littleton, Col., Eric Harris and Dyland >Klebold opened fire on fellow students at Columbine High School on April >20, >1999. Twelve students and a teacher were dead before the murderers killed >themselves. At least 14 other students were wounded. > >This episode was a year in the planning. The pair, wanting to "go out" in a >blaze of glory for some reason, intended to level the school with bombs and >kill or maim all occupants. The media played up the . > >Harris and Klebold were on a school drug program to "help" them. Yet >parents, teachers and peers ignored the warning signs, except for two young >fiercely anti-gun freaks who supplied the weapons. > >Several months before the massacre, the killers acquired a handgun from >22-year-old Columbine graduate Mark Manes, the son of a longtime activist >in >Handgun Control, Inc. > >Manes bought a pistol at a gun show and went to prison for giving the >handgun to a person under 18 years old. > >The previous December, an 18-year-old fellow student purchased three long > for the killers with their money at a Denver-area gun show. >Afterwards, the green media went to work with contrived interviews. > >Robyn Anderson had produced a driver's licence three times as proof of >identity and age. Had there been an instant background check required on >her >clean record, Anderson claimed, she would never have purchased the . > >Why would that deter her? An instant backgrounder wouldn't have been >retained as a permanent record about her or the purchases. There is, >however, a permanent record of her attached to a Colorado anti-gun bill >that >bears her name. > >Anderson wouldn't come forward to assist investigators, which sounds like >obstruction of justice. Neither did she apologize for her role in the >murders, as did Manes. The police discovered her through an anonymous tip, >probably Manes. > >A 1999 Washington Post story said that some of the nation's leading private >foundations and philanthropists are pouring millions of dollars into the >battle to control gun violence. > >Yet they actually fund violence under pretense of crime-prevention >programs. >Since billionaire George Soros established the New York-based Center on >Crime, Communities and Culture in 1996, it has doled out well over $13 >million in grants. > >The Columbine High School massacre occurred on the day > >representatives of 30 private foundations were sitting down at the Council >on Foundations annual meeting in New Orleans discussing anti-gun efforts. > >They had been trying for the "just right political climate" so Congress >would pass stricter gun-control measures. The shootings made the funders >"all the more determined to make a difference," said Nancy Mahon, the >director of Soros' Center on Crime. > >"Increasingly," wrote Ron Arnold in Undue Influence, "foundations are >coordinating their anti-gun efforts as they do their environmental issues." > >Any person or organization accepting money from the same grant foundations >that fund mass murders have their hands tainted with blood, too. > >Dr. Paul Gallant and Dr. Joanne Eisen, members of Jews for the Preservation >of Firearms Ownership, contributed to this article, as did lawyer Dave >Kopel, who writes a weekly column for "National Review Online". ><< attach3 >> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 19:08:20 -0600 From: "Bert van Ingen" Subject: Ottawa Citizen 4 April 2001, C3 Headline: FAMILY OF MAN SHOT BY BOY AWAITS JUSTICE Byline: Hopes lesson can be learned about dangers of guns Geraldine Roy will have to wait nearly three more months to find out what happens to the father of the eight-year-old boy who shot her 64-year-old husband, leaving him blind and without the use of an arm. Yesterday, the 38-year-old father of the boy, who cannot be named, was to be sentenced after pleading guilty to careless storage of a firearm............................ The maximum sentence for careless storage is two years in jail, but the victim's son, Mark Roy, A St. Jerome police officer, said the Crown wasn't seeking jail time. Rather, she ( sic ) wanted two years probation, a $1000 fine and an order that he not be allowed to possess a firearm for 10 years............................ I (We, the RFC) sincerely feel for the man. 270 Win is not a military designated caliber so it is with certainty the unfortunate gentleman was struck by a government-legislated-non-military "humane" bullet. The medical trauma would have been horrific. What comes first; chicken or the egg? Nobody from the press mentioned that it is still legal to own firearms. Or tell us whether the owner had a "license" or not. And whether the 270 Win rifle in question was entirely legal. Nobody mentioned that the C-68 law allows for "non-restricted "firearms ( read 270 Win ) to be kept out for predator-control under situations when the "owner" is home. A decent lawyer would have figured this out in a hurry but "ordinary" people don't usually have access to competent $250/ hr advice. Now if I take this court judgement a few steps further parents will soon not want to have their children drive their car. Automobiles too can be used to wreak havoc, just like a firearm. Child did it, though, with "parents" car. Obviously "irresponsible" parents fault. Result; parents driving privileges revoked and they shoulder the responsibility by going to jail, Big Time..No driving license for ten years and a Hefty Fine. Think the birthrate may go down in this 75 IQ government-run Country? No, but might provide a serious incentive. Engineer a whole new class of citizens? Definately. Don't "legally" marry, don't have children, don't say anything that might offend the State and by all means aspire to a prestigious chase-the-tail dog-job with the government. I'm scared, I no longer want to realize that my neighbour's child might not be "all there", and could use some real world guidance. No, I might just become another Liberal supporter. I just want to stand back and believe that over 1/2 my cheque is going to protect me and at the same time support the fine "people" that couldn't care less just so they could look good whenever they pretended they were doing something about it. That is what really scares me! Bert van Ingen ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #710 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:acardin33@home.com List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v03.n198 end (198 is the digest issue number and 03 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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