From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca on behalf of Cdn-Firearms Digest [owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca] Sent: Thursday, 05 April, 2001 14:42 To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #713 Cdn-Firearms Digest Thursday, April 5 2001 Volume 03 : Number 713 In this issue: FW: copy of communication to Whitehorse Star Hamilton Spectator article FW: Police get another $200-million to fight organized crime - CP Correction Requested Re: What the NFA does. Was "Re disagreement" Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #711 Re: Disinformation? Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #712 Worth reading Sabiston Transcript in PDF format Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #712 Re: What the NFA does. Was "Re disagreement" Unintended Consequence??? Re: Billboards and semi-trailers... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 09:30:47 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: FW: copy of communication to Whitehorse Star - -----Original Message----- From: PaulGallant2A@cs.com [mailto:PaulGallant2A@cs.com] Sent: April 4, 2001 11:39 PM To: breitg0@parl.gc.ca Subject: copy of communication to Whitehorse Star Subj: Column in WhiteHorse Star Date: 4/4/2001 To: star@whitehorsestar.com, david@i2i.org To: JoanneDEisen@cs.com Dear Sir: Please be advised that neither David Kopel, nor Joanne Eisen, nor myself had anything to do with the column which appears below. Neither did we have any knowledge of it until it was brought to our attention after being circulated on the Internet through a mailing list. We ask that you post a correction to your readership to that effect, immediately. -Paul Gallant ============================================================ Subject: Column: These foundations fund mass murders >Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 09:06:03 -0400 > >PUBLICATION: The Whitehorse Star >DATE: 2001.04.03 >SECTION: Opinion >PAGE: 6 >COLUMN: Comment >BYLINE: Gaffin, Jane > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - >---- > >These foundations fund mass murders > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - >---- > >Ed. note: the first part of this two-part commentary was published Monday. > >Almost three years to the day in Littleton, Col., Eric Harris and Dyland >Klebold opened fire on fellow students at Columbine High School on April >20, >1999. Twelve students and a teacher were dead before the murderers killed >themselves. At least 14 other students were wounded. > >This episode was a year in the planning. The pair, wanting to "go out" in a >blaze of glory for some reason, intended to level the school with bombs and >kill or maim all occupants. The media played up the . > >Harris and Klebold were on a school drug program to "help" them. Yet >parents, teachers and peers ignored the warning signs, except for two young >fiercely anti-gun freaks who supplied the weapons. > >Several months before the massacre, the killers acquired a handgun from >22-year-old Columbine graduate Mark Manes, the son of a longtime activist >in >Handgun Control, Inc. > >Manes bought a pistol at a gun show and went to prison for giving the >handgun to a person under 18 years old. > >The previous December, an 18-year-old fellow student purchased three long > for the killers with their money at a Denver-area gun show. >Afterwards, the green media went to work with contrived interviews. > >Robyn Anderson had produced a driver's licence three times as proof of >identity and age. Had there been an instant background check required on >her >clean record, Anderson claimed, she would never have purchased the . > >Why would that deter her? An instant backgrounder wouldn't have been >retained as a permanent record about her or the purchases. There is, >however, a permanent record of her attached to a Colorado anti-gun bill >that >bears her name. > >Anderson wouldn't come forward to assist investigators, which sounds like >obstruction of justice. Neither did she apologize for her role in the >murders, as did Manes. The police discovered her through an anonymous tip, >probably Manes. > >A 1999 Washington Post story said that some of the nation's leading private >foundations and philanthropists are pouring millions of dollars into the >battle to control gun violence. > >Yet they actually fund violence under pretense of crime-prevention >programs. >Since billionaire George Soros established the New York-based Center on >Crime, Communities and Culture in 1996, it has doled out well over $13 >million in grants. > >The Columbine High School massacre occurred on the day > >representatives of 30 private foundations were sitting down at the Council >on Foundations annual meeting in New Orleans discussing anti-gun efforts. > >They had been trying for the "just right political climate" so Congress >would pass stricter gun-control measures. The shootings made the funders >"all the more determined to make a difference," said Nancy Mahon, the >director of Soros' Center on Crime. > >"Increasingly," wrote Ron Arnold in Undue Influence, "foundations are >coordinating their anti-gun efforts as they do their environmental issues." > >Any person or organization accepting money from the same grant foundations >that fund mass murders have their hands tainted with blood, too. > >Dr. Paul Gallant and Dr. Joanne Eisen, members of Jews for the Preservation >of Firearms Ownership, contributed to this article, as did lawyer Dave >Kopel, who writes a weekly column for "National Review Online". ><< attach3 >> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 09:30:53 -0600 From: "Bert van Ingen" Subject: Hamilton Spectator article Ed Cashman, "a" President of the Public Service Alliance, is in favour of issuing sidearms to Nat'l Park Wardens. Some of his reasons include: "rifles are much more dangerous when seizing evidence or making arrests. Huh? ) He figures that since Provincial and other Federal enforcement people carry handguns so should they. ( Logic? ) Mr. Cashman says Wardens "face armed individuals. They have been assaulted. They constantly come in contact with people with criminal records." ( And I suppose that by virtue of not being a public servant while visiting a National Park, and thanks to the "visionary" effect of C-68, that ordinary civilians will not face armed people, be assaulted, or come in contact with people with criminal records? ). Mr. Cashman spews forth a thoroughly discriminatory horsefeather "Us" and "Them" argument. Bert van Ingen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 09:33:52 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: FW: Police get another $200-million to fight organized crime - CP > Police to get another $200 million to fight organized crime, government > says > Source: CP > Apr 5, 2001 10:25 > By Nahlah Ayed > OTTAWA (CP) _ The federal government introduced legislation Thursday to > crack down on organized crime in a package that also offers new tools and > $200 million of new money for police. > Justice Minister Anne McLellan and Solicitor General Lawrence MacAulay > jointly announced the long-touted legislation, promising to make > participation in a criminal organization a new offence under the Criminal > Code. > Ottawa has been under pressure to put some teeth into its current > anti-gang legislation _ especially since a crime reporter was shot in > Montreal after he published an expose on gangs. > The proposed law introduces three new offences aimed at various degrees of > involvement with gangs, with sentences ranging from five years to life. > MORE LATER > INDEX: JUSTICE POLITICS SOCIAL > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 10:45:11 -0600 From: PaulGallant2A@cs.com Subject: Correction Requested Please be advised that neither David Kopel, nor Joanne Eisen, nor I had anything to do with, or any knowledge of, the column noted below, despite the statement at the end of the column that we "contributed" to it. Please also circulate this notice to recipients of your mailing list. Thanks for your cooperation. - -Paul Gallant =========================================================== Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #709 Date: 4/4/2001 12:39:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time Subject: Column: These foundations fund mass murders PUBLICATION: The Whitehorse Star DATE: 2001.04.03 SECTION: Opinion PAGE: 6 COLUMN: Comment BYLINE: Gaffin, Jane These foundations fund mass murders - - ---------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 10:48:48 -0600 From: "Jim Hinter" Subject: Re: What the NFA does. Was "Re disagreement" Organization: National Firearms Association Roger, A few months ago, we posted a message in POINTBLANK titled "Someone died" When you are asking organizations to work very hard on a project and "hide" the fact that they are doing that, you open the NFA, CILA, OFAH and any other organization up to criticism. WE are not doing anything wrong. We DO NOT Have to hide out! Hiding out, basically means that we will have a greater task trying to fundraise for this project. Hiding out means that the media will question who or what is doing the campaign. Hiding out is what a criminal would do! We would be absolutely silly to do that! Right now, is time for working TOGETHER. The NFA, and other organizations are starting that process NOW! Right now, the target should be raising the funds needed to make sure that this campaign can actually happen. On www.nfa.ca there is a link to www.nfa.ca/billboards.html If you have an idea there is an e-mail address billboards@nfa.ca where you can send ideas or thoughts for the committee. We have created an Adobe pdf which you can download and print out to distribute -- and send in to the Billboard campaign. Right now, after a week, donations are starting to come in. Without the funds to DO a campaign, nothing will happen. Respectfully to those with criticisms, talk is cheap! Earlier on there was a challenge issued of $20 per person. I met this challenge on DAY 2. I challenge each person on CFD to match (or beat) that donation. Jim Hinter National President ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 11:14:16 -0600 From: B Farion Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #711 > > HEADLINE: Anti-gang law to get tougher: 'Police are handcuffed' > > The federal government is expected to sharpen judicial tools for combatting > organized crime today by reworking its troubled - law and > bolstering resources for police. Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Hi; Well, the day after the pulicity stunt called "The Great Biker Raid", a judge in Edmonton publicly stated that the anti gang law was unenforcable and would not get far in court. Trying to try more than 2 people at a time was just a waste of time and money! By the way, all them bikers are out on the street a day later. Where do these people in Justice get thier advice from? Anyone ready to buy a gang court? There is one for sale in Winnipeg! Truly Bill (;-) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 11:15:56 -0600 From: "Glenn Springer" Subject: Re: Disinformation? > Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 08:30:30 -0600 > From: Jhogue > Subject: CFC Disinformation Bulletin #10 for Prosecutors > ... > > Firearms Acquisition Certificate (FAC): > > FACs are valid until their expiry date and allow the person to possess and > > acquire firearms, borrow firearms, and acquire ammunition. > > Unless it is printed awfully small on the FAC, I have not seen any > reference as to the classes of firearms I may own. It's on the back.of the blue/purple ones (late FACs -- 99 onward and PAL/POLs). It's not on the old green one. THe FAC was good for Restricted/non-Restricted or grandfathered classes. - --------------------------- Glenn Springer CFO Master Instructor #0095 President & Chief Instructor FAC Firearms Academy Canada email ==> glenn@guns.to web site ==> http://www.guns.to Hot Line ==> 416 966 7464 Direct ==> 416 630 5921 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 12:48:52 -0600 From: Walter Martindale Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #712 > Subject: Shipping a restricted handgun > > Hi folks, > > > > Only Loomis accept them, but from Business to people. We've called so far > > Puro, FedEx and UPS without any luck. > > > > Do you have any idea on a courrier who can accept them ? > > It's been a while, and I'm not completely up on the current law about sending restricted weapons - but - my free pistol was sent registered mail (in 1989), and nobody except the sender and receiver knew what was in the package. Is this no longer legal? We had done the appropriate paperwork for transport permits... Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 12:50:03 -0600 From: "Dave Thomson" Subject: Worth reading You may have already seen this, but I'm forwarding it in case you haven't. I've extracted the text from an e-mail thats being widely distributed. THIS MESSAGE IS WORTH READING!!!!!! Guess our national leaders didn't expect this, hmm? On Thursday, Darrell Scott, the father of Rachel Scott, a victim of the Columbine High School shootings in Littleton, Colorado, was invited to address the House Judiciary Committee's subcommittee. What he said to our national leaders during this special session of Congress was painfully truthful. They were not prepared for what he was to say, nor was it received well. It needs to be heard by every parent, every teacher, every politician, every sociologist, every psychologist, and every so-called expert! These courageous words spoken by Darrell Scott are powerful, penetrating, and deeply personal. There is no doubt that God sent this man as a voice crying in the wilderness. The following is a portion of the transcript: "Since the dawn of creation there has been both good & evil in the hearts of men and women. We all contain the seeds of kindness or the seeds of violence. The death of my wonderful daughter, Rachel Joy Scott, and the deaths of that heroic teacher, and the other eleven children who died must not be in vain. Their blood cries out for answers." "The first recorded act of violence was when Cain slew his brother Abel out in the field. The villain was not the club he used. Neither was it the NCA, the National Club Association. The true killer was Cain, and the reason for the murder could only be found in Cain's heart." "In the days that followed the Columbine tragedy, I was amazed at how quickly fingers began to be pointed at groups such as the NRA. I am not a member of the NRA. I am not a hunter. I do not even own a gun. I am not here to represent or defend the NRA - because I don't believe that they are responsible for my daughter's death. Therefore I do not believe that they need to be defended. If I believed they had anything to do with Rachel's murder I would be their strongest opponent." "I am here today to declare that Columbine was not just a tragedy-it was a spiritual event that should be forcing us to look at where the real blame lies! Much of the blame lies here in this room. Much of the blame lies behind the pointing fingers of the accusers themselves. "I wrote a poem just four nights ago that expresses my feelings best. This was written way before I knew I would be speaking here today": Your laws ignore our deepest needs, Your words are empty air. You've stripped away our heritage, You've outlawed simple prayer. Now gunshots fill our classrooms, And precious children die. You seek for answers everywhere, And ask the question "Why?" You regulate restrictive laws, Through legislative creed. And yet you fail to understand, That God is what we need! "Men and women are three-part beings. We all consist of body, soul, and spirit. When we refuse to acknowledge a third part of our make-up, we create a void that allows evil, prejudice, and hatred to rush in and reek havoc. Spiritual presence's were present within our educational systems for most of our nation's history. Many of our major colleges began as theological seminaries. This is a historical fact. What has happened to us as a nation? We have refused to honor God, and in so doing, we open the doors to hatred and violence. And when something as terrible as Columbine's tragedy occurs politicians immediately look for a scapegoat such as the NRA. They immediately seek to pass more restrictive laws that contribute to erode away our personal and private liberties. We do not need more restrictive laws. "Eric and Dylan would not have been stopped by metal detectors. No amount of gun laws can stop someone who spends months planning this type of massacre. The real villain lies within our own hearts. Political posturing and restrictive legislation are not the answers. The young people of our nation hold the key. There is a spiritual awakening taking place that will not be squelched! We do not need more religion. We do not need more gaudy television evangelists spewing out verbal religious garbage. We do not need more million dollar church buildings built while people with basic needs are being ignored. We do need a change of heart and a humble acknowledgment that this nation was founded on the principle of simple trust in God!" "As my son Craig lay under that table in the school library and saw his two friends murdered before his very eyes-He did not hesitate to pray in school. I defy any law or politician to deny him that right! I challenge every young person in America, and around the world, to realize that on April 20, 1999, at Columbine High School prayer was brought back to our schools. Do not let the many prayers offered by those students be in vain. Dare to move into the new millennium with a sacred disregard for legislation that violates your God-given right to communicate with Him. To those of you who would point your finger at the NRA - I give to you a sincere challenge. Dare to examine your own heart before casting the first stone! My daughter's death will not be in vain! The young people of this country will not allow that to happen!" Do what the media did not - - let the nation hear this man's speech. Please send this out to everyone you can!! Dave Thomson Thunder Bay ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 12:54:13 -0600 From: "Gordon Hitchen" Subject: Sabiston Transcript in PDF format Cross Posted to facilatate timely delivery. To down load this file go to www.freedrive.com user name ghitchen and password retrofit. This deals with Alternate Certification and the Gentleman, unrepresented had a decision of the Alberta Chief Firearms Officer , George Reid, Overturned. It was not originally typed by a Court reporter but rather by an Electronic Recorder. That caused some unique problems. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 13:14:45 -0600 From: Garry Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #712 In reference to Rosie O'Donnell I saw a great wheel cover on a van. It said, "Blaming guns for violence is like blaming spoons for Rosie O'Donnell being fat." Well, I liked it! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 13:26:49 -0600 From: Roger Walker Subject: Re: What the NFA does. Was "Re disagreement" On Thu, 5 Apr 2001, Jim Hinter wrote: Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca > Roger, > When you are asking organizations to work very hard on a project and "hide" > the fact that they are doing that, you open the NFA, CILA, OFAH and any > other organization up to criticism. > > WE are not doing anything wrong. > > We DO NOT Have to hide out! Who is criticizing? I'm just adding my 2 cents. I'm not suggesting that the sponsors be kept secret. The sponsors and their supporters will already know. But when we know that there are people who will completely ignore a perfectly argued point, simply because of the source, it makes sense to me to ignore the source and stick with the perfectly argued point. It is a simple matter of reducing the variables that could affect the outcome. If the uncommitted or the counter-committed would be swayed negatively by flaunting of the sponsorship, why not remove that variable. I think the arguments can stand on their own. It won't be a secret in any case, but I think it will be less likely to "lose votes" for the wrong reason. I have seen far too many people agree with our arguments until they find out that we are associated with the firearms community... In the NFA's (and others') own promotions is the place to state their involvement. > Respectfully to those with criticisms, talk is cheap! > > Earlier on there was a challenge issued of $20 per person. I met this > challenge on DAY 2. > > I challenge each person on CFD to match (or beat) that donation. Well, Jim, now that I finally have the phone number, I just have to see if I can get to a phone before your answering service kicks in (I'm extremely busy!) to make good on my commitment (and challenge) of $400 - that's zero firearms, plus one, then multiplied by $400. - -- Roger Walker Voice/Fax 1-780-440-2685 "HIS Pain; YOUR Gain" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 14:39:40 -0600 From: "Ross"rossj.@home.com Subject: Unintended Consequence??? I wonder if the government when passing its new anti gang laws in Parliament were thinking about the NFA, LUFA CILA and other large membership gangs like that. After all they disagree with the government. Unintended consequence??? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 14:41:38 -0600 From: "Linda & Rory" Subject: Re: Billboards and semi-trailers... In addition to my comments on magnetic signs, I will add the following, then bow out of this thread for personal reasons. Initially, I did NOT "quote or reply" to part two of Winram's email, because "I did in fact agree with it". OTHER THAN the part about using 'firearms logos and identifiers' which I had addressed earlier. The concept of semi-trailers is almost identical to billboards, and in some cases they are more mobile than billboards so can be used in places no billboards exist. ALL THESE IDEAS should be looked at in combination under the one project. In fact, I'll take the semi-trailer idea one step further. Has anyone thought of checking with the truckers to see if some of the long-haul units might be interested in sponsoring some of these ads? They often drive across the country, and since many are privately owned and operated, they could provide a good avenue for advertising. There is also, as I mentioned before, the ads on the side (outside) of transit buses, and the inside of transit buses along the top above the windows and seats. These cost money, but could be checked into. I'm sure everyone can come up with several more ideas on "venues". The problem with ALL these types of ads though is that you MUST be very careful about "what" is said, and "how" it is said. The "message" cannot be "repeal the Firearms Act", because we are WAY, WAY BEYOND THAT NOW, and if you think otherwise, you'd better "wake up and smell the coffee". To pursue such a course of using the former types of messages and logos that "DID NOT WORK" (remember the Liberals got back in with a bigger majority than ever before and nothing has been repealed), would indicate you are merely looking for whatever "glory" you may think you'll find, and you will continue to speak only to the converted, and all the effort in such a campaign will be for naught. All firearms organizations ARE "special interest groups". They most definitely have their place, and serve a purpose, but they are NOT the be-all and end-all of the average Canadian. REALITY CHECK FOLKS. Now put those nasty "redneck" type of thoughts and images away, and start thinking along the lines of the rest of the Canadians and how to win them over. Linda ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #713 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:acardin33@home.com List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v03.n198 end (198 is the digest issue number and 03 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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