From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca on behalf of Cdn-Firearms Digest [owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca] Sent: Tuesday, 22 May, 2001 20:57 To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #784 Cdn-Firearms Digest Tuesday, May 22 2001 Volume 03 : Number 784 In this issue: Bill C-15 disappears after massive filibuster threat Permits to Transport - Georgetown, ONt. Re: Put your money where your mouth is..... [none] Jean Vallin Digest #782 Ten seconds of bad judgement 12-4 Re: Permits to Transport - Georgetown, ONt. [none] Re: Put your money where your mouth is..... Bull ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 13:40:40 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Bill C-15 disappears after massive filibuster threat THE HILL TIMES May 22, 2001 http://www.thehilltimes.ca/cv-curry052101.html Bill disappears after massive filibuster threat John Reynolds expects bill to return this fall in parts By Bill Curry The Hill Times Alliance House Leader John Reynolds is claiming victory in his fight to have Bill C-15, the Omnibus Criminal Code Bill, split into different parts, but it looks like his battle is far from over. Government House Leader Don Boudria managed to quietly hold off a full-blown filibuster attempt last week from the Alliance over the bill. Last Monday, Alliance MPs started a small filibuster by forcing amendments on bills that came up for debate, but by the end of the day, Mr. Reynolds rose in the House to announce that, after speaking with Mr. Boudria he would withdraw the amendments. Bill C-15, which had been scheduled to appear in the House the next day, suddenly disappeared from the Order Paper. "I think it worked," said Mr. Reynolds of his filibuster threat. "We've got a commitment from Mr. Boudria to talk to the minister [of Justice, Anne McLellan] to see what they can do and push the bill off to the fall." Opposition House leaders have complained that the bill contains such a wide range of different elements that it is difficult to support. They say they fully support most parts of the bill, such as measures against child porn and disarming police officers, but want other parts that relate to cruelty to animals and the Firearms Act to be removed for a more thorough review. "If they come back in the fall and they've decided not to change it, then we'll filibuster and cause some problems in the fall," warned Mr. Reynolds. Alliance Deputy Leader Grant Hill told The Hill Times that unless there are major changes to the wording of the bill, "How could you possibly ask an intelligent individual to vote on 10 items when they should be voting on one? To force this through would put us in a position where we're voting against some things that are absolutely perfect and ideal that we support, because we can't support other things." While the Alliance is under the impression that the bill will return in the fall as two or three separate bills, officials from Mr. Boudria and Ms. McLellan's offices would only say that discussions are taking place and that there are currently no plans to split the bill. "There are obviously discussions that are taking place about the splitting up of the bill," said Farah Mohamed, Ms. McLellan's director of communications, "but at this time, there's no intention to split up the bill... Obviously the opposition has put some of their arguments forward, but there's a flip-side to that, and that is [that] omnibus bills are not that unusual. It's a very effective way of addressing a number of different issues... and if you look at the bill in its entirety, it's a very important bill about protection of Canadians." Tory House Leader Peter MacKay also wants the bill split up, but confirmed that no formal agreement has been struck. "There's been both formal and informal attempts to have the government commit to removing the cruelty to animal provisions because it really is a poor fit to have cruelty to animal legislation mixed in with Internet porn and criminal harassment and disarming a police officer and others. It really doesn't seem to jive. "There is this informal consultation going on in the hopes that we might convince the government in their wisdom to remove the cruelty to animals sections. We could bring that bill back in the fall as a stand alone bill and then give it a proper, thorough vetting in the House of Commons." The opposition argues that the cruelty to animal sections is poorly drafted and could hurt animal-based industries. "The way this bill was presented really exemplifies what is wrong and what is so troublesome about omnibus legislation," said Mr. MacKay. "If they had consulted with us previous to introduction, they might have avoided all of this. The House isn't sitting this week, but when it comes back on May 28, C-7, the Youth Justice Bill will be first on the list. Other bills on the agenda are C-27, the Nuclear Fuel Bill and Bill C-19, amendments to the Environmental Assessment Act. Later in the week, the House will deal with report stage of C-11, the Immigration Bill. Thursday will be an opposition day for the Bloc Québécois. Bill Curry's e-mail address is bcurry@hilltimes.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 13:42:15 -0600 From: Bruce Mills Subject: Permits to Transport - Georgetown, ONt. I just came across this at the Halton Regional Police Website, and thought it might be of use to someone out there. http://www.hrps.on.ca/media/permit.htm PERMITS TO TRANSPORT Are you a registered gun owner, living in the Georgetown area, and considering moving soon? For a three month period, Halton Regional Police will be providing the Service of issuing Permits to Transport out of the Georgetown Police Division, at 217 Guelph St. Georgetown. For a trial period (May, June, July,). On the last Wednesday morning of each month, our Firearms Registration Officer will be attending from 9am - 12 noon on the 28th May, 25th June, and 30th July. Permits to Transport are required when moving residence or when it is required to take a gun for repair. Appointments must be made, no walk in requests. To make an appointment for this service, call (905) 878-5511 and ask for extension 4711, or call direct at (905) 825-4711. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 14:27:05 -0600 From: Jim Powlesland Subject: Re: Put your money where your mouth is..... On Tue, 22 May 2001, "Paul Chicoine" <701506@ican.net> wrote: > a few digest ago B. Farion ask for a list of NFA initiated cases, > there was no reply, so I'll ask the same question, could the NFA > post a list to this digest or email to me off digest a list of NFA > initiated cases. There was no reply probably because the answer is zero. >From what I can gather the NFA doesn't "initiate" any cases. It merely provides free legal advice to the lawyers involved in firearms-related court cases. Or, on the rare occasion, provides expert testimony on firearms. Indeed the NFA seems to be downright scared of "initiating" any cases, (constitutional or otherwise) for fear, I guess, of losing. Their policy seems to be to sit on the sidelines and let others take the feds to court. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 15:04:20 -0600 From: "\"Bob Lickacz\" Subject" Subject: [none] Nicole: I hope you read English because my French isn't too good. You are wrong in your assessment of the CFD. Wrong in the respect that it mirrors the mood of the Recreational Firearms Community. Little mistakes such as yours only serve to underline why we don't trust ANYTHING to do with the Firearms Act, the RCMP, and the Department of Justice. Actions speak much louder than words. Bob Lickacz National Firearms Association ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 15:36:12 -0600 From: "Gordon Hitchen" Subject: Jean Vallin Remember this chap who was in charge at Miramachi? The latest rumor is that he is indeed living and working in Edmonton now. Apparently has an Office in the Canada Place Building at the corner of Jasper Avenue and 97th street where the new Chief Firearms Office is to be located on the imminent departure of Georg Reid . I suspect the new Gun Gestapo will also be there since it is only a couple of moments from the Edmonton City police and the Remand Center Jail with the Courthouse in between.. Welcome to the City of Champions , Jean! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 13:19:21 -0600 From: Jim Hill Subject: Digest #782 "Whether the RCMP will allow Pratt to return to active police duties is still uncertain. " I cannot see how , with a criminal conviction for violence, he can remain with the RCMP. The man should be fired , not allowed to retire, but fired! I also agree that the minimum penalty for the use of a firearm during the commission of an offense should be imposed. Letters should be written to our MP's demanding to know why the law is only being applied to the law abiding members of the firearms community and not to the criminal element. The papers are rife with reports of gun violence by criminals and I have yet to see the 4 year minimum imposed on anyone. Jim Hill Fletchers Lake, N.S. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 16:46:28 -0600 From: "Ross" Subject: Ten seconds of bad judgement The copers lawyer told the courts that for ten years of hard service, the cop had ten seconds of bad judgement. We all make bad judgement calls once in a while. It is called experience. But it takes less than ten seconds to put a bullet in some innocent persons head. What possesed the cop to stick a gun and press it tightly to the guys head. That smacks of the ol "we're cops and youre not" routine. if any of us had a ten second lapsse and shoved a gun in some cops head because he was going to give out a ticket or something, you can bet we would be doing hard time. Just more of the them and us. The rules are meant for us, and the law doesnt apply to "them" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 18:00:23 -0600 From: "Byting Mouse Computer Services" Subject: 12-4 I was recently told that non granfathered firearm owners under 12-4 = where able to register such weapons as AK's and FN in Alberta. Can = anyone confirm or deny this? Joseph ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 18:04:25 -0600 From: EUGEN SINGER Subject: Re: Permits to Transport - Georgetown, ONt. Since when do you need a permit to transport guns from your home for whotever reasons.  It is a different story with handguns and prohibited weapons but guns ?
But who knows, may be Halton Region has special  laws.
Eugen

At 03:42 PM 05/22/2001 , you wrote:
>I just came across this at the Halton Regional Police Website, and thought
>it might be of use to someone out there.
>
>http://www.hrps.on.ca/media/permit.htm
>
>PERMITS TO TRANSPORT
>
>Are you a registered gun owner, living in the Georgetown area, and
>considering moving soon?
>
>For a three month period, Halton Regional Police will be providing the
>Service of issuing Permits to Transport out of the Georgetown Police
>Division, at 217 Guelph St. Georgetown.
>
>For a trial period (May, June, July,). On the last Wednesday morning of
>each month, our Firearms Registration Officer will be attending from 9am -
>12 noon on the 28th May, 25th June, and 30th July.
>
>Permits to Transport are required when moving residence or when it is
>required to take a gun for repair. Appointments must be made, no walk in
>requests. To make an appointment for this service, call (905) 878-5511 and
>ask for extension 4711, or call direct at (905) 825-4711.
>
Eugen Singer
Toronto, ON., Canada

"Much better to be judged by 12, than to be carried by 6 !!".
"Good gun control is keen eye and steady hand!!" Moderator: GPH Above is an example of the mess html makes. POSTING IN PLAIN TEXT ONLY PLEASE ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 19:25:53 -0600 From: mikeack@ns.sympatico.ca (Michael Ackermann) Subject: [none] "This is the second time in a month that Saskatoon-area police have shot and killed a suspect, and both incidents took place on Highway 41." I guess the Fed Libs will have to ban highway 41. Seriously, though, this unfortunate incident sounds to me like "suicide by cop". My bet is he's insured to the eyebrows. I wonder what led to his failed businesses? Could it have been some weird regulations (like the requirement for a land owner to pay for the cleanup of spilled fuel oil on your property, regardless of who spilled it or when - potentially costing hundreds of thousands)? Anyone know? It would be interesting if we could show that a government regulation's unintended consequence led to this man's suicide. Oh yeah, one other thing. If he shot a dog he had to hold at quite an angle below horizontal. If he then raised the gun to shoot in the air (as he had already done) he would have to have it pointed briefly in the general direction of the police. - -- M.J. Ackermann, MD (Mike) President, St. Mary's Shooters Association Box 3, RR 1, Sherbrooke, NS Canada B0J 3C0 902-522-2172 mikeack@ns.sympatico.ca Hope for the best, Plan for the worst ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 20:52:06 -0600 From: "Jim Hinter" Subject: Re: Put your money where your mouth is..... The NFA is in the process of producing just such a list. That list will be published in the NFA Magazine POINTBLANK, in the near future. Frequently, the NFA posts an adobe pdf of past issues of POINTBLANK on the website, although usually a few months after the Membership has received the issue. As they say, stay tuned.... Jim Hinter National President National Firearms Association - ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Chicoine <701506@ican.net> Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 9:58 PM Subject: Re: Put your money where your mouth is..... > Peter Kearns wrote: > " perhaps CILA should consider funding NFA > initiated cases.... " > > a few digest ago B. Farion ask for a list of NFA initiated cases, there was > no reply, so I'll ask the same question, could the NFA post a list to this > digest or email to me off digest a list of NFA initiated cases. > __________ > Paul Chicoine > (DSS) 0x3B0DB246 > *Illegitimi non Carborundum* > Non Assumsit Contract, All Rights Reserved, Without Prejudice > ________________________________________________ > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 20:56:31 -0600 From: "Dave Harmer" Subject: Bull Hello all, Dave Harmer here from Victoria, BC. the excerpt pasted below is complete and utter bullshit for lack of a stronger word and I am totally disgusted with the Judge in the case. The judge should loose his job immediately; end of that subject. The officer in this case!! Well that should be a no brainer as well. If you have one law for all; you better damn well enforce that equally across the population. I personally was banned from owning firearms for an indefinite period based on a so called FIP database allegation & rumor mill, I was never ever charged or convicted of any misuse of a firearm or assault or minor charge or even a parking ticket. I do not have a criminal record now nor did I have a criminal record during my ecstatic experience with our CFO ,Constable Glenn Vermette; who I feel is lacking in some moral scruples, decided it was in the interest of public safety if I did not own or possess firearms. The so called reference hearing that I was afforded was nothing more than a joke and a waste of time and money as far as I am concerned. So as for this poor officer below and his 60,000 dollar a year job; say good bye to it. If it is in the interest of public safety, you cannot be allowed to own or possess firearms, and I am sure if Mr. Vermette is reading this he will make sure of the latter as any good CFO would. If this officer is not immediately banned from owning or possessing firearms, which would mean no more job or recreation related to firearms as it has for many other member of society, ie, myself and a local politician by the name of Robin Blencoe and who knows how many others. Please rescind this completely useless law (Bill C-68) and restore my license and compensate me for my firearms that were wrongfully confiscated from my person and allow me to pursue a career in which I might need to carry or possess a firearm or use for my personal enjoyment. Remember that this officer was charged and convicted. Remember equality, and one law for one people?? If this is allowed to go unchecked. The law has failed to protect anyones rights, but instead gives us different classes of people. The working class kind and the ones in "positions of trust" who can be overlooked when they make mistakes and not have to be made to pay as the rest of us would. RCMP Staff Sergeant Steve Wills, the elected staff relations representative for 3,000 Lower Mainland police officers says "The sentence fits within the parameters of other sentences imposed on other police officers and people in positions of trust as RCMP Officer". ``I'm not troubled with [the sentence] at all,'' Pass this on to your MLA and lets get rid of this wonderful waste of money and infringement on our charter that this Government under Mr. Chretien has decided to place upon us as Canadian Citizens. EXCERPT BELOW An RCMP officer convicted of assault after holding his gun to the head of a man he thought might be a pimp was told Friday he can still carry for the purpose of police work. A provincial court judge in Vancouver put Burnaby RCMP Constable Michael Pratt on probation for 18 months, ordered him to do 200 hours of community service work and imposed a $2,000 fine. The probationary sentence means Pratt now has a criminal record, but Judge Erik Bendrodt imposed a restriction that doesn't automatically prevent Pratt from continuing with the police career he began 10 years ago. The judge ordered the 34-year-old man to surrender any he owns and not to possess any , ``except within the scope of your employment as a police officer.'' While imposing sentence, Bendrodt said he agreed with Pratt's lawyer Jack Harris when he argued: ``In 10 years of policing, we've had 10 seconds of bad judgment.'' Insert comment(Oh that's a good one, how many seconds does it take to kill someone??) Pratt pressed the barrel of his gun against the temple of Vancouver dentist Dr. Kary Taylor, then put the gun under Taylor's chin, during an ostensibly routine traffic check for a parking violation. Pratt has been suspended with pay from his $60,000-a-year job since August 1999, awaiting the outcome of charges about the February 1999 confrontation. Whether the RCMP will allow Pratt to return to active police duties is still uncertain. Pratt, the son of a retired RCMP inspector, refused to comment to reporters after hearing his sentence. Pratt's lawyer Harris, who also wouldn't comment, told the court earlier that Pratt wanted to continue his career in policing. While awaiting sentence, Pratt operated a a retail kiosk in a shopping mall. Harris said his client also returned to Concordia University to complete a degree and took a Vancouver school board course called Tools for Change: Paradigm Shifting. RCMP Staff Sergeant Steve Wills, the elected staff relations representative for 3,000 Lower Mainland police officers, called on the RCMP to allow an ``outstanding officer'' to continue his career in policing. The sentence fits within the parameters of other sentences imposed on other police officers and people in positions of trust, he said. ``I'm not troubled with [the sentence] at all,'' said Wills, who speaks for police officers who are legally prohibited from joining a trade union. ``We finally got closure.'' But Corporal Grant Learned -- an official spokesman for the RCMP in B.C. -- said Pratt remains suspended with pay and the RCMP hasn't yet decided whether he can return to police duties. ``In a nutshell, his fate is an issue that is still ongoing,'' Learned said. In February, an internal RCMP disciplinary hearing for Pratt was halted when the panel hearing the case ruled it did not have jurisdiction because the RCMP had missed a deadline for beginning action against Pratt. The RCMP's E Division is now appealing to Ottawa. Learned said the RCMP's commanding officer in B.C. -- assistant commissioner Beverly Busson -- will likely make a decision within 10 days on whether Pratt's suspension will be lifted while the internal RCMP appeal process runs its course. Busson's decision will be based on her review of the provincial court judge's decision, as well as ``public interest and public confidence in the RCMP,'' Learned said. Taylor, the assault victim, couldn't be reached for comment. He has filed a civil suit against Pratt. Taylor, who is black, was out on a dinner date in Burnaby with an Asian woman when Pratt tried to stop his vehicle for improper parking. When Taylor drove on, Pratt followed. The judge found Pratt used unnecessary force later when he pulled Taylor out of the car. The constable then put a gun to Taylor's head before asking to see his driver's licence. Another officer who arrived on the scene as back-up, Constable Michelle Lakusta, testified at Pratt's trial that she asked Pratt afterward why he had reacted so strongly. ``He said he saw a black man in a nice car with an Oriental female and, given the area, he wasn't sure if it was possibly a prostitute-pimp situation,'' Lakusta said. Taylor was handcuffed but later released without charges. The pressure of Pratt's gun barrel left abrasions on his temple, but there were no other injuries. Thank you for taking the time to read all of this. Now it is upto you to pass this message on to your MLA and any other person in a position of trust! Sincerely Dave B. Harmer ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #784 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:acardin33@home.com List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v03.n198 end (198 is the digest issue number and 03 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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