From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca on behalf of Cdn-Firearms Digest [owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca] Sent: Monday, 28 May, 2001 10:12 To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #790 Cdn-Firearms Digest Monday, May 28 2001 Volume 03 : Number 790 In this issue: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #789 Breast Cancer Fundraiser none supplied Tom Cohoe Anti-Leader rant Deb Grey Re: Ammo sales @ SIR RE: Retail Vendors/Identification Requirements Anti-Leader reasoned discussion tit for tat Midway USA changing pricing/shipping charges policy Re: Convicted officer gets probation Re: Ammo sales @ SIR CPIC "Code of Ethics" SEX-OFFENDER REGISTRY BACKED ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 08:19:46 -0600 From: Tom Zinck Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #789 Lex: First of all, considering the poor quality photos (and WRONG photos) appearing on the POL/PAL I am not surprised that business's want to protect themselves by asking for two peices of ID. Heck, even the post office asks me for two peices to pick up parcels (and YES, I show them my FAC) Did you talk to the manager at SIR ? I humbly suggest you go directly to the source (in person, phone call, etc) FIRST, and then if you get answered you don't like, post it to the digest or ask for help. I have done lots of business with SIR, and I plan on continuing. Where would we be without our firearm retailers ? Tom ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 08:21:12 -0600 From: "Henry S.F. Nachaj" Subject: Breast Cancer Fundraiser Le Club de la Roue du Roy in Hemmingford Quebec, is having a FUN SHOOT Sporting event for the Montreal Breast Cancer Foundation. The event can be shot St. June 2 or Sunday June 3. A Browning Gold 12 ga, A Berreta 391 Sporting 20 ga and a Franchi Al48 Deluxe 28 ga are among the over $12,000 (to date) in DOORPRIZES. Sunday also has a "Game Fair" with demonstrations by: Orvis,Browning, Berreta, Benelli, Franchi and more. To participate, you must pre-reister: Le Club de la Roue du Roy, 1-888-747-2882 or plongtin@roueduroy.com You may contact me also for additional information. Women are specially invited to participate. There is a seperate womens class structure and a modified course for them. Loaner guns are available. This Sunday morning, from 9.30 to 12, I will provide instruction for novices and others at La ROue du Roy. Participants will pay only for ammo and targets. I propose a special invitation to our Ontario friends from the Capital region which we have not seen for some time. Don't forget: 1 in 9 women WILL have Breast Cancer AND some MEN! Henry SF Nachaj _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 08:24:19 -0600 From: "Ross" Subject: none supplied Since January, there have been 23 bank holdups in the city, compared with 19 for all of last year. Police solved 15 of this year's bank robberies and have two unsolved ones from last year. Tghis little quote form a digest article on bank robbery is absolute proof that the Police are of no value to the citizens and corporations of this country. They were not around to prevent and protect people and banks from robbery, but after the fact they only managed to solve approx 40% of the crimes that were committed. As oner reader put it before..."they are like well traineds dogs..they only come when called, " otherwise what use are they? With the heavy millions being thrown into Policing, one would think there would be real "crime prevention", rather than "crime solutions after the fact. What a great time to be a cop in society today. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 13:36:43 -0600 From: "David Leskowski" Subject: Tom Cohoe Anti-Leader rant I must respond to a few mis-spoken words from Tom. However, I don't want to fuel the rant, because in case you guys forget, C-68 and the Liberals are the enemy! When you talk about what is "correct" and democratic, moral, etc. to do within the CA, please don't open yer yap until you read the constitution, and the official MP documents. The grassroots (you and me, not the MP) have decided that 25% of the members can call for a General Assembly. At an Assembly, if (and only if) more than 50% vote for a Leadership review, there will be one. This embodies the spirit of democracy, expediency, decency, Recall, etc. The constitution requires that when an Assembly is called, the members and constituencies must have sufficient Notice, and min-max time lines are specified. Those speaking out agains the Leader must realize that all the negative press, and WASTED EFFORT will only accellerate the leadership review by about 3 months. It is already scheduled. Loudmouths, please answer, could all the negativity be worth a few months? I personally also don't consider it to be a small detail that the MP's speaking out against the Leader and other MP's signed a document pledging not to do this. When the CA forms government, we actally want these MP's to be BETTER than the ones there now. Regarding the inappropriateness of John Reynolds taking some leadership, I am part of that crowd that believes we have placed far too much importance on single leaders. The office of the PM has become more powerful than the House of Commons. I have always preferred that we be led by a "team", not a single person. I was not comfortable during those years when it was felt that the Reform Party was a party of one, and if something happened to Preston Manning it was all over. I would encourag the CA to continue to let talent work through a team, to improve upon democracy, not just use it to obtain an elected dictatorship as we have now. For all you who really think Stockwell Day has screwed up so badly that it is worth the immoral, undemocratic, and unconstitutional behaviour, take some time out to get some facts. I have done that, and been very surprised by what I found out. You shouldn't judge ANYONE in the CA but what the Liberal press prints. Perhaps you are jumping to the conclusions they want you to jump to. From the so-called libel suit in Alberta, to the criticism of the judges, and statements on Palestine, you may be out of line blaming Stockwell....could be that by siding with the Anti-stock crowd, you are are siding with some who are actually responsible. Facts are wonderful things, and hard to come by in the Canadian media. Anyway, we are still in the process of putting the CA together. The election meant nothing; it looked like the CA was only a month old, with no plan and no cohesive organization. What a co-incidence...that's what it was!! We are at a perfect time to get our House in order...it WILL be strong just in time for the Liberals to get their long knives out when the Anti-Jean campaign begins. IF (and only if) we can obey our own ground rules, and act better than the Liberals and PC's have in the past, we will form the next government and repeal C-68. David Leskowski Kaministiquia, ON ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 15:36:06 -0600 From: "Mark Fredrick Hunt" Subject: Deb Grey I would have supported Deb Grey before she went to the pension trough. Now don't tell it was because it was worth a million dollars. That's the reason she originally got elected(PENSIONS) She is no better than Jean or any other Liberal, the next step for her is to cross the floor. Fred ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 20:27:21 -0600 From: "Paul Chicoine" <701506@ican.net> Subject: Re: Ammo sales @ SIR Oh Lex, you are so on target. Again SIR, is above and beyond the call of duty. There was a similar debate held on the other digest regarding this same problem at Le Baron in Ottawa. To date, I believe no NFA official has taken the task in hand to offer the retailer assistance in resisting these extra demands imposed by les gents d'armes. I look forward to learning if the situation will be different in the Peg. You know, it could anyone from the RFC to get the ball rolling. __________ Paul Chicoine (DSS) 0x3B0DB246 *Illegitimi non Carborundum* Non Assumsit Contract, All Rights Reserved, Without Prejudice ________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 22:52:06 -0600 From: "Larry Neufeld" Subject: RE: Retail Vendors/Identification Requirements Lex, I called Terry Robinson at S.I.R Mail Order & Sports Store this morning. He thanked me for bringing your concern to his attention. The note you saw was outdated information that should have been removed from the cash register in December. The note has been removed and Terry assured me that S.I.R customers purchasing ammunition are only required to produce a valid POL/PAL or FAC as required by law. The current firearms legislation is difficult and confusing for the purchaser and the retailer alike. I understand your concern about retailers exceeding the legal requiremts. I have been assured that S.I.R is only complying with the law. I hope this puts you at ease. I can assure you that our local firearms retailers need your patronage. The effects of the firearm legislation has already taken its toll on retailers. Right now we need to be working with the retail community to overcome a common foe! Larry Neufeld Vice President, Communications NFA Manitoba Web: http://www.nfa.ca > Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 00:54:54 -0600 > From: "Winram" > Subject: Retail Ammo Vendors/Identification Requirements > > My apologies to everybody if the above discussion is over and done with. > I've been away. > > I saw some discussion a while back about Wal-Mart in BC requiring that ammo > purchasers produce ID in addition to a POL or Pal in order to make > purchases. > > At Unicity Mall Wal-Mart in Winnipeg a couple of weeks ago I encountered > only the requirement to show my PAL in order to buy ammo. (The lady who > served me remarked that she appreciated that I didn't give her a hard time > when she asked me to produce a license as required by law. Some of us > obviously need to smarten up if we are giving the store clerks a hard time > just because they are forced, in the line of duty, to comply with stupid > laws.) > > In any event, last week while purchasing night crawlers at SIR in Winnipeg, > I observed a notice taped to the cash counters at each till which stated > that ID in addition to POL/PAL are now required in order to purchase > ammunition, etc. > > I wonder if an officer of the NFA could inquire on behalf of the membership > as to why SIR has instituted this requirement? > > I personally do not intend to continue to patronize this important Winnipeg > gun and ammo dealer until I get some satisfactory answers. > > I believe that the stores which we as firearms owners and "outdoorspersons" > deal with should not be complying with police requests to go beyond the > requirements of the law and I fear that this is what is happening in this > instance. > > Anybody else running across this phenomenon?? > > Lex Winram > > ------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 23:52:49 -0600 From: "Jim Szpajcher" Subject: Anti-Leader reasoned discussion David - > IF (and only if) we can obey our own ground > rules, and act better than the Liberals and PC's have in the past, we will > form the next government and repeal C-68. > > David Leskowski > Kaministiquia, ON Your line of reasoning about "ground rules", reminds me of a pilot who files a flight plan. I would hope that if a pilot found a reason NOT to continue on his/her course, (insert reason of choice here), that he/she would have enough sense to react to the situation, rather than bull ahead because "This is where I said that I would go." This is the current situation in Canadian Alliance, and there is discord between factions. If Stockwell has been unable to control the situation, then he is not fit to lead, let alone ask anyone to vote for the party. While not everything that Stockwell Day has done is "a mistake", his judgement has been in question ever since he wrote the letter to the Red Deer Advocate about Lorne Goddard's sexual proclivities. I am reminded of something that Norman Schwartzkopf said in a workshop I attended in 1995, in Edmonton: "In every group there is a leader. If you are the officer in charge, you better be that person, or you will not have the troops behind you." Stock is obviously not the leader, and needs to be replaced by someone who can rally the troops. Jim Szpajcher Airdrie, Alberta ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 13:28:05 -0600 From: "TriggerMortis" Subject: tit for tat The CFC called me to discuss a pistol I have purchased. I wasn't home. My mother answered the phone. She is 82, very hard of hearing and with arthritis in her hands. She doesn't move too fast. The lady from the CFC wanted to leave a message for me. It is important. My mother has to listen for a while before she understands that it is a message for her to take. After the message is rhymed off, Mom says to wait a minute so she can get a pen. When she comes back, the lady rhymes off the message. Mom says to repeat it. The lady from the CFC rhymes off the message again. Mom asks to repeat everything after the first 2 words. The lady from the CFC rhymes off the message again. Mom gets another couple of words and asks her to repeat it. This goes on for a few more minutes and Mom finally has the phone number, but nothing else. It is 1-800-731-4000. The lady from the CFC rhymes off the message again. Mom asks her to repeat it. The lady from the CFC says she will call back. I guess the message wasn't that important after all. :^) Bye. Al. Never trust a bald barber. He has no respect for your hair. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 18:50:18 -0600 From: "Rod Regier" Subject: Midway USA changing pricing/shipping charges policy Midway USA has changed their pricing to "shipping extra", and dropped their catalog pricing for goods. Given that Canadian residents had to pay supplemental shipping, this is likely to result in lower Canadian order total cost for orders from this supplier. Midway has designated Canadian order specialists, so they should still be shipping many of their products to Canadian residents. \\ http://www.midwayusa.com/csHelp/csInternational.html "If you're ordering from Canada: Canadian customers are now considered "international" and can order from us using: 1-877-320-0067 between 8 a.m. and 4 p.m. U.S. Central Time Monday through Friday. Please go to our Canada page and read more about the change in status." \\ I would mention in passing that UPS (United Parcel Service) is not in my experience a good choice for transborder shipment of any comodity. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 01:03:30 -0600 From: alypen Subject: Re: Convicted officer gets probation Things are not likely to get better soon. In Quebec, the six shot, 357 magnum has been deemed inadequate for the job at hand.Thousands of police are now being issued seventeen (17) shot automatic pistols. What kind of wars are these people planning for? Also, while the older revolvers were fairly idiot proof-only the occasional suspect got shot accidentally, the automatics are notoriously tricky. Accidental shootings will escalate. Perhaps we should check with the minister of justice about removing them from the streets. After all, if it saves just one life...... A ^5 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 09:37:35 -0600 From: "Jim Hinter" Subject: Re: Ammo sales @ SIR Re The NFA and Le Baron, and other Firearm Businesses. Paul was quite right that the NFA has not stepped into the business of Le Baron. We have over the past three years, that I know of personally, contacted every firearm business in Canada that we could get an address for. We have provided each of those businesses with factual information along with our offers of help to any questions or problems which they may have. The National Firearms Association has not however "stepped in" where we have not been asked to go. Frankly, to me, personally, I would see that as none of our business. We had a similar situation with a provincial firearm organization which is in the process of solving a problem. The NFA was approached to answer questions and asked "WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT ....x". My reply, as National President was this is an internal matter of that organization -- we will agree with the decison that their Executive makes. With NFA Member Businesses, we do the same. If a Business is not an NFA Member, I beleive that for us to wade in, would be not the best tactic we could use. If a business is not providing you with the service you want, you have a freedom to shop somewhere else. Jim Hinter National President - ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Chicoine <701506@ican.net> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 8:27 PM Subject: Re: Ammo sales @ SIR > Oh Lex, you are so on target. Again SIR, is above and beyond the call of > duty. There was a similar debate held on the other digest regarding this > same problem at Le Baron in Ottawa. > To date, I believe no NFA official has taken the task in hand to offer the > retailer assistance in resisting these extra demands imposed by les gents > d'armes. > I look forward to learning if the situation will be different in the Peg. > > You know, it could anyone from the RFC to get the ball rolling. > __________ > Paul Chicoine > (DSS) 0x3B0DB246 > *Illegitimi non Carborundum* > Non Assumsit Contract, All Rights Reserved, Without Prejudice > ________________________________________________ > > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 09:50:54 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: CPIC "Code of Ethics" CPIC REFERENCE MANUAL Appendix I-2-C R30: NOV 95 Canadian Police Information Centre Code of Ethics 2.1 PRINCIPLE #1 - "Information to be contained in personal information must be obtained in a fair and lawful manner and in accordance with legislation which permits it to be gathered an held." 2.2 PRINCIPLE #2 - "Personal information in the CPIC computerized data banks shall be held and used only for one or more specified and lawful purposes." 2.3 PRINCIPLE #3 - "Personal information held for any purpose or purposes shall not be used or disclosed in any manner inconsistent with that purpose or those purposes." 2.4 PRINCIPLE #4 - "Personal information shall be accurate and where possible, kept up to date." 2.5 PRINCIPLE #5 - "Personal information held on CPIC data bases for any purpose or purposes shall not be kept for longer than is necessary for that purpose or those purposes." 2.6 PRINCIPLE #6 - "(a) In those instances where a CPIC Agency is registered as the record owner, an individual is entitled to request access from that agency who, without undue delay or expense: (i) may grant disclosure of that information, where appropriate;o and (ii) where appropriate, such data may be corrected or erased." "b) In those instances where access is requested and that CPIC agency is not the registered owner of a record in the CPIC data banks, the agency will consult with the record owner and will identify the owner of the record, when appropriate." "Nothing in either (a) or (b) above overrides the exemption provisions of the federal Privacy Act or of any provincial or territorial legislation which might apply." 2.7 PRINCIPLE #7 - "Appropriate security measures will be taken to prevent unauthorized access to, or alteration, destruction or disclosure of, personal information and against accidental loss or destruction of personal information." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 10:11:24 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: SEX-OFFENDER REGISTRY BACKED PUBLICATION: The Edmonton Sun DATE: 2001.05.21 SECTION: News PAGE: 12 SOURCE: Edmonton Sun BYLINE: Andrea Wiebe KEYWORDS: Sex Crime; Child; Safety; Alberta - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- SEX-OFFENDER REGISTRY BACKED; FEDS THINK ALBERTA'S JUMPING THE GUN - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- Canada's justice minister thinks the Alberta government is jumping the gun with its talk of creating a provincial sex-offender . "I think they should see if CPIC (the Canadian Police Information Centre crime database) can meet their objectives. I see no reason why it can't," Anne McLellan said yesterday. Premier Ralph Klein vowed last week to establish an Alberta in the wake of the slaying of five-year-old Jessica Koopmans, who disappeared May 4 after leaving her Lethbridge home to visit a friend's place two houses away. And Alberta Solicitor General Heather Forsyth said from her Calgary home yesterday that McLellan's comments won't affect her work. Forsyth's department is tasked with studying the cost and value of a pedophile . "The province is still moving ahead. I'm reporting to cabinet in two weeks and we will establish a provincial sex-offender ," Forsyth said. "I think when it comes to Albertans' safety, it is practical." It's also something Albertans want, she added. "(It has) major support." The Ontario government launched its sex-offender last month, with a provision to fine or jail those convicted of sex crimes who don't alert authorities to their current addresses. But McLellan said the provinces should stick with the national database that's already there. If it's not doing the job, the federal government is open to ideas, she said. "If they have suggestions for improvement of the CPIC , which is available to every police officer in this country, then we would happily consider their proposals," said McLellan. "The solicitor general (Lawrence MacAulay) has made it plain that if there are ways to upgrade the CPIC to make it more useful, that he would look at this, and I support him in that." But if the provinces want to go ahead, McLellan won't stop them. She cautioned that setting up individual provincial registries could be costly and cumbersome. "Certainly it is within the jurisdiction of the province to create one of these registries, but there are costs involved. They will have to be linked, and not all provinces are creating them, whereas CPIC is there with information on everyone who has been charged and convicted." - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- Click here to find the last hit Click ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #790 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:acardin33@home.com List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v03.n198 end (198 is the digest issue number and 03 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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