From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca on behalf of Cdn-Firearms Digest [owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca] Sent: Saturday, 02 February, 2002 12:33 To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V4 #508 Cdn-Firearms Digest Saturday, February 2 2002 Volume 04 : Number 508 In this issue: 'Good cop'... VcrSun: Army unfit for all but ceremony at 2010 Games LET'S GET WITH THE PROGRAM - NOW re 23 mile range Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V4 #502 Liberals quash testimony of Gagliano accuser Gun Show Police recruit civilians to fight crime RCMP Flee. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 23:42:42 -0600 From: "The Jordans" Subject: 'Good cop'... Now every 'once in a while', there's also a 'good cop' story.... Being a dog's best friend Police officer saves canine partner’s life Thursday, January 31, 2002 VANCOUVER - It's been an incredible four days for police dog ‘Bear.’ A routine break-and-enter call last Sunday almost cost him and his handler their lives. "As we left the residence and we're walking along the sidewalk, Bear started to yelp and whine," explained Vancouver Police Const. Ray Wong. "Bear at that time fell over onto his side and started convulsing. His legs were rigid, and his muscles were as hard as a rock. His eyes had rolled back and his tongue fell out and was turning purple and blue." Bear had stepped on an exposed electrical plate. Two hundred and forty volts of electricity coursed through his body. Wong was also zapped when he pulled his canine partner away. "It was quite apparent he was in cardiac arrest," said Wong. "We couldn't find a pulse and he wasn't breathing." "I immediately began CPR on my partner - chest compressions and breathing into his nose. But panic was setting in and I was watching my dog die in front of my eyes." With a police escort, Bear was rushed to an emergency vet clinic. Veterinarians say they can't believe he survived. But thanks to his partner, Bear is expected to make a full recovery. "It was very emotional," said Wong. "I was watching him die in front of my eyes." "To see something that you love and not be able to help until your thoughts could be focused on what the problem was... like I said at first I thought it was a seizure, but I'm just glad he's alive." For now, Bear still gets to rest. But it's hoped he'll be back fighting crime in a couple of weeks. PIC: Global BC - Const. Ray Wong and police dog Bear. © Copyright2002 Global BC ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 23:42:42 -0600 From: "The Jordans" Subject: VcrSun: Army unfit for all but ceremony at 2010 Games Sad... Army unfit for all but ceremony at 2010 Games Lack of B.C. base hinders security function: report Peter O'Neil - Vancouver Sun Friday, February 01, 2002 OTTAWA -- Canada will have a difficult time offering a significant military role in security at the proposed 2010 Winter Olympics in Vancouver-Whistler because there is no longer a major army base in B.C., according to internal documents obtained Thursday. An RCMP-led security team would involve 2,000 to 3,500 people, but only a handful would likely be soldiers, according to minutes of an organizational meeting that took place before the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. "Military presence will be limited as there is no major base nearby, and would function in a largely ceremonial capacity [i.e. escort members of the Royal Family]," stated the summary of a May 9, 2001 meeting of the Vancouver/Whistler Interdepartmental Committee, which involved representatives from a number of federal departments. Security organizers involved in the Vancouver bid are attending the Salt Lake City games and will assess the security effort there, which expanded massively after the Sept. 11 terror attacks, bid spokesman Sam Corea said Thursday. The U.S. military is contributing thousands of soldiers to patrol Salt Lake City streets, while air force fighters and surveillance planes will patrol the airspace over northern Utah. "Canada will produce whatever we need to produce in terms of the security plan but I can't comment on the military. It's not one of my areas of expertise," Corea said. The RCMP, which plays the lead role on Olympic security and would have the right to ask for military help, refused to comment Thursday. The Liberal government shut down Canadian Forces Base Chilliwack shortly after the 1993 election, so the closest significant army presence is at Defence Land Forces Western Canada headquarters in Edmonton. Fraser Valley MP Chuck Strahl said a military presence is needed in the post-Sept. 11 environment to send a message to would-be terrorists, but the decision to close down Chilliwack makes that a logistical nightmare. "To have a region, the only region of the country that isn't represented by a land forces base, has been folly from the beginning," Strahl said. Major Robert Black, the defence department's liaison with B.C. Olympic organizers, said the military played a major security role at the 1976 summer Olympics in Montreal because it was the first games after the 1972 terror attacks at Munich. The defence department played a lower-profile role at the 1988 Winter Olympics in Calgary, he said. While no firm security plans were made public for Toronto's failed bid to host the 2008 summer Olympics, Transport Minister David Collenette said at the time that the federal government would consider "donating the military to work as security." Black said the RCMP is the lead agency for security if the B.C. bid is successful. He said the defence department would respond to any specific requests for aid. While he said the military's role in national security is being reconsidered in many areas since Sept. 11, he said a defence department role in security at the 2010 games would be a challenge. "If you have a big base right there there's just more tendency to want to use the military. And it becomes difficult when there's not a big base near Vancouver," Black said. The RCMP refused to comment on a possible military role. "This would not be something that would be discussed in the public domain," said Sergeant Paul Marsh. The documents, obtained through Access to Information by Ken Rubin, detailed various financial and personnel commitments by Ottawa in addition to the recent $9.1 million contribution to assist with the bid. Environment Canada, for instance, expects to spend $3.5 million for weather forecasts, waste management, and environmental protection, while Citizenship and Immigration says 800 additional customs officials -- and one intelligence officer -- will be needed. The department of Indian and northern affairs will contribute up to two employees over 10 years to deal with the impact of Olympic venues and transportation on reserve lands, while $500,000 will be used to hire "program enablers" and "consultants." Transport Canada expects to supply an extra 15 people to deal with heavy traffic at Vancouver International Airport, eight train inspectors, and eight additional marine personnel. poneilsns@southam.ca © Copyright 2002 Vancouver Sun Moderator: Isn't this supposed to say "800 additional customs officials- one of them intelligent?" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 23:42:44 -0600 From: "Dale Blue" Subject: LET'S GET WITH THE PROGRAM - NOW Re: UPDATE - WITNESS LIST STILL BEING PREPARED If you belong to a gun club, organization, business, or have anything to offer as an individual, please apply to give evidence. If nothing else, I am sure any of us on this list can refute item number 18, the big lie, found below. Note that at this point Mr. Breitkreuz is looking for a witness list, not a commitment to make a trip to Ottawa at government expense or a commitment to present a detailed brief. Feel free to use the following letter as a model for your request. DO IT NOW! - ------ January 30, 2002 Mr. Garry Breitkreuz, MP breitg@parl.gc.ca Dear Mr. Breitkreuz: I understand you are preparing a list of expert witnesses and organizations that would like to appear before the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights to give testimony on how the implementation of the Firearms Act will affect their jobs, their industry, their business activities and their recreational pursuits and pastimes. Responsible Firearms Owners of Alberta (RFOA) would appreciate being on this list. We are certainly familiar with the Statutes of Canada 1995, Chapter 39. RFOA made presentations to committee in 1995 and 1997. I am confident RFOA could provide valuable insight as to some of the "costs" of the above mentioned legislation. Sincerely, Dale Blue, President Responsible Firearms Owners of Alberta c.c. Marie Danielle Vachon, Clerk, Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights vachom@parl.gc.ca - ------ - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 5:39 PM Subject: UPDATE - WITNESS LIST STILL BEING PREPARED > The Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights will be considering a > Canadian Alliance motion at 11 AM on Tuesday, February 8, 2002 and will > decide at that time whether or not they will study the total projected cost > and economic impact of the Firearms Act. Note: The correct date is February 5 - that's next Tuesday. Get your requests in NOW. > Please e-mail or fax your request to Garry Breitkreuz, MP with a copy to the > Clerk of the Justice Committee > GOVERNMENT RESPONDS BUT DOES NOT ANSWER Q-98 > By Garry Breitkreuz, MP - January 29, 2001 > HOUSE OF COMMONS DEBATES > VOLUME 137, NUMBER 134, 1st SESSION, 37th PARLIAMENT > (18) Nothing in the Firearms Act precludes Canadians from participating in > activities in which they participated in before the coming into force of the > Firearms Act. While the forces of demographic change and the free choice of > other recreational activities may have resulted in a decline in active > participation in hunting and shooting sports, there is nothing to indicate > that any decrease was the direct result of the introduction, passage, coming > into force or implementation of the Firearms Act. THE DEBATE IS NOT OVER UNTIL WE SAY IT IS OVER. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 00:07:14 -0600 From: "TONY KATZ" Subject: re 23 mile range the simple answer is 5000 yards is aproximately 2.3 miles make a small mistake in the decimal placement and you have 23 miles. of course no liberal or bureaucrat can admit to making a mistake so 23 miles it is. remember occams razor, the simplest answer is usually the right one. regards, tony _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 00:07:15 -0600 From: Don Webb Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V4 #502 Your right, Austin said, "a million of the 1.8 million licensed gun owners in Canada have returned their packages already." The majority of them are the thanks but no thankers. He'll spin anything to his advantage. Just a suggestion ploy to start owners registering. REMEMBER..The deadline is at the end of the year. - --- Tom Bryant wrote: > How much do you want to bet that he is counting the > packages that say > "Thanks but no thanks" as people actually > registering their guns? > How many of these packages actually have something > in them? > How many packages have incorrect information? > How do they know that those sending in their > packages actually registered > ALL of their firearms? > > > > Thursday, January 31, 2002 ­ Print Edition, Page > A9 > > > > Miramichi, N.B. -- The Canadian Firearms Centre > will meet its target > > of registering the bulk of firearms in Canada by > Jan. 1, 2003, a > > spokesman said yesterday. > > > > David Austin said in a telephone interview from > Ottawa that more than > > a million of the 1.8 million licensed gun owners > in Canada have > > returned their packages already. > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 00:46:41 -0600 From: Bruce Mills Subject: Liberals quash testimony of Gagliano accuser http://www.nationalpost.com/home/story.html?f=/stories/20020201/1306602.html February 1, 2002 Liberals quash testimony of Gagliano accuser Former chairman Andrew McIntosh National Post OTTAWA - Combative backbench Liberal MPs yesterday scuttled a bid by opposition MPs to have the former chairman of Canada Lands testify before a Commons committee about the cronyism and political interference he says he experienced while working with Alfonso Gagliano. Opposition MPs wanted Jon Grant, an Ontario banker who was chairman of government-owned Canada Lands until November, to tell a Commons committee about his dealings with the former public works minister. But under the watchful eye of a staffer from the Office of the Liberal Whip, Liberal MPs voted 8-7 to defeat a motion to have Mr. Grant testify, complaining it was a witch hunt launched "in contempt of Parliament." Opposition MPs condemned the Liberal decision, saying the refusal to investigate the allegations will further damage the declining confidence voters have in Parliamentary institutions. "Mr. Gagliano would still be the public works minister if it weren't for this scandal. Why are we running away from accountability?," said James Moore, a Canadian Alliance MP and committee member. "The failure of government MPs to support this means they are complicit in covering up illicit and unethical behaviour," said Jim Pankiw, a Saskatchewan MP and committee member for the PC-DR coalition. Last month, Mr. Grant publicly alleged that contrary to denials by Mr. Gagliano, the then-public works minister pressured the Crown corporation to hire his friends and political supporters. The claims were supported by Robert Basque, a sitting member of the Canada Lands board, triggering a national uproar. Mr. Gagliano was shortly afterward removed from Cabinet and named ambassador to Denmark by the Prime Minister. Mr. Grant earned cross-country praise for going public with his information. At yesterday's committee hearing, opposition MPs said they have many questions to ask Mr. Grant about a series of disputed land deals and forensic audits that were undertaken at the Crown Corporation during his tenure. But Andre Harvey, a former Conservative MP who defected to the Liberals, was among those who voted against Mr. Grant testifying. "He didn't report his concerns [about interference] to the Minister while he was serving him. It's not his courage that will kill him, is it now?" he said. "I don't want to turn this committee into a commission of inquiry, especially because of the man who is making these allegations," Mr. Harvey said. The Chicoutimi Liberal wants MPs to study trucking safety instead. Val Meredith, a Canadian Alliance MP, tabled the opposition motion, but Mr. Harvey joined seven Liberals to defeat it in a recorded vote. Other Liberals who voted against Mr. Grant testifying were: Paul Szabo (Mississauga South); John Cannis (Scarborough Centre); Claude Duplain (Portneuf); Wayne Easter (Malpeque); Reg Alcock (Winnipeg South); Roy Cullen (Etobicoke North); and Marcel Proulx (Hull-Aylmer). Bev Desjarlais, an NDP MP (Churchill), said parliamentarians have a moral obligation on behalf of Canadians to investigate Mr. Grant's claims. "If we believe the accusations are wrong, we need to get the correct information. If we believe the accusations are valid, we need to get that information out there, too," she said. Mr. Cannis dismissed such concerns, saying Mr. Grant "made no allegations of criminal wrongdoing." Holding a Commons committee hearing with Mr. Grant as a witness "would be in contempt of democracy and Parliament," he added. Mr. Alcock said he was sad about how Mr. Gagliano's political career ended. "He's left in a way that has stained him and I feel sorry for him," he said. amcintosh@nationalpost.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 00:46:40 -0600 From: Moderator Subject: Gun Show I made a mistake in the dates for the CHAS 38th Annual Gun Show. It is not this weekend but next Saturday Feb 9th and Sunday the 10th. It is at the Sportex Exhibition grounds 118 ave off Wayne Gretzky Drive . 10 Am to 6 Pm Saturday and 10:00 Am to 4 Pm Sunday. See You there! Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 00:46:41 -0600 From: Bruce Mills Subject: Police recruit civilians to fight crime I think that the paragraph regarding New Liskeard says it all: it's an inexpensive way to replace real cops on the street. http://www.nationalpost.com/home/story.html?f=/stories/20020201/1306584.html February 1, 2002 Police recruit civilians to fight crime COPS (Citizens on Patrol): Program in Ontario, Manitoba hailed by law enforcement Adrian Humphreys National Post Police in Ontario and Manitoba are recruiting citizen volunteers to patrol the high-crime and troublesome areas of their community, part of a growing nationwide trend of putting civilians on the front lines in the fight against crime. Dubbed "the Rat Patrol" by some who equate it with vigilantism rather than community activism, Citizens on Patrol is spreading to most provinces where cash-strapped police forces are praising the program. The Ontario Ministry of the Solicitor-General is funding a new Citizens on Patrol group in Caledon, a community north of Toronto, and expanding existing groups in the Northern Ontario communities of New Liskeard and Owen Sound, according to a ministry spokesman. In Manitoba, local police forces, Manitoba Public Insurance and the province's Ministry of Justice have teamed up to fund and co-ordinate 3,000 citizen volunteers in about 100 patrol groups. There are also well-established Citizens on Patrol groups in British Columbia and Nova Scotia, where they have been credited with saving lives and criticized for lobbying for legislative changes. A Kings County Nova Scotia COP group raised $7,000 to buy a large electronic sign and radar unit that alerts motorists on a dangerous highway stretch how fast they are travelling. In Codiac, N.B., a group spent a night videotaping rowdy characters who frequented an area plagued by vandals. One of Canada's oldest citizen patrol programs is in Abbotsford, B.C., where members have been taking to the streets since 1984. Members saved a young man who was unconscious and submerged in water at a construction site when stumbled upon by a patrol group. Citizens on Patrol, often called COPs for short, is a movement expanding the Neighbourhood Watch concept of passively keeping an eye on nearby homes to actively patrolling the streets looking for trouble. The patrols are run differently in different communities but, generally, participants patrol a specific area in their own cars and call police if they spot suspicious activity or encounter a crime in progress. Some groups drive specially marked cars and others walk their patrols. Some groups have police radios to communicate with police and other patrol members while most just use cellular phones. Most participants are trained on what to look for, how to take notes and write reports, and some groups require first-aid training. What is common to the patrol groups, however, is a standing order to be the eyes and ears of the police but to leave strong-arming and foot chases to real officers. "You're not going to send a whole bunch of people out into the street to try to grab people doing break and enters," said Bruce O'Neill, senior spokesman for the Ontario Solicitor-General's office. "They're not meant to be a lynch mob or have guns strapped to their backs. They are just normal mothers and fathers who have hopefully been trained and tested by the local police and who use common sense. Their role is not to confront people but to monitor, and then alert police." Just in case, however, the Ontario government funding is only available to groups that are sponsored by organizations carrying a minimum of $5-million in liability insurance. The Caledon plan calls for information sessions to be held in the community to recruit residents who are at least 18 years old with a vehicle and driver's licence. Applicants must also be willing to allow police to run a criminal background check. In Owen Sound, the money from the Ministry of the Solitictor-General will provide supplies to expand the program. "It's a wonderful program. They're a great bunch of people," said Constable Brian Dunham, police liaison officer with the group of 30 COP members in Owen Sound, a community of 21,000. In New Liskeard, where members of the fledgling program pair up and take turns driving a retired police cruiser, the program promotes community involvement and inexpensively fills in the gaps of regular police patrols, said Doug Jelly, Chief of Police. In Manitoba, the province-wide initiative is aimed at co-ordinating and unifying the many groups that have sprung up in several cities, said John Douglas, a vice-president with Manitoba Public Insurance, the Crown corporation that runs the province's automobile insurance. MPI is a sponsoring agency in the new program. "We want to give them a common look and feel and bring them in touch with each other without interfering with their independence," he said. The patrols have an immediate impact, said Brian Napady, patrol captain with a group in the north end of Winnipeg. After just one patrol, he heard unruly kids on the street calling his COP members the Rat Patrol. It is a nickname he considers a badge of honour. "That's good. That's why we're there. I want them to know someone is out there and watching them and will call the police if there is a problem," Mr. Napady said. His members usually walk patrols wearing bright orange safety vests. Mr. Napady, whose wife is also a COP member, said it is an excellent way to meet neighbours and draw the community together, even though his members have rarely had a need to call police to investigate an incident. ahumphreys@nationalpost.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 12:32:46 -0600 From: Mike.Hargraves Subject: RCMP Flee. Digest #500 Jim put a very good point forward in the above noted Digest. I for one did see the article where it stated, one Officer down and the other two drove back to the detachment with the pick up truck complete with the criminals in pursuit. I think that is close to the articles content. Noted also is Jim's take on the job description of the fleeing RCMP Officers. As a full time Firearms Instructor, who specialises in teaching how to fight and survive a confrontation with issue weapons, (all my clients are armed for the purpose of their employment) the bottom line in all this training is this, no matter what you do, or who you do it to. " YOU MUST BE ALIVE AT THE END OF THE DAY" If running away from an opponent, or more than one, who are armed with Rifles or Shotguns, when all you have is a Stainless Steel S&W 9mm, you driving at high speed away, if you pick that option, then that's what you do! The reason a Police Officer has not got a compact 5.56 short barrelled military rifle Electro-locked in his patrol vehicle is totally beyond me. The reason a Steyr AUG with a 30 round mag: in place is not standard issue for every Mobile Patrol Officer is simple, the hi ups who make the rules don't get shot at! our stupid Politicians, think of things like "Public outcry" "Political Correctness" and on, and on. These where the same fools who put flaps on the first open revolver holster issued to Metro Toronto Police! that lasted only until the inventor Bill Rogers was informed! Shotguns reside in the trunk of Radio Cars!! what will people think! if they see them in the unit in plain view? horrors! A question, if those two Officers, approaching an Officer Down call,on foot, with a fully loaded 30 round short Rifle at the hi-ready, scanning left and right, taking advantage of any available cover! Do you think they would have then ran if fired on? (Oh' I forgot the main piece of equipment) and properly trained. Last and not least, it is really difficult to properly assess a gun fight that you did not see, based on some one else's description in a News Paper article, who also was not at the scene! an even more difficult task! describing what you think happened in a gun fight you where actually involved in! Mike Hargreaves. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V4 #508 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:acardin33@shaw.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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