From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca on behalf of Cdn-Firearms Digest [owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca] Sent: Tuesday, 05 February, 2002 23:26 To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V4 #518 Cdn-Firearms Digest Tuesday, February 5 2002 Volume 04 : Number 518 In this issue: Deduct costs of gun safety Your statements in the House Re: Bikers Brownshirts Success in court Proroguing Parliament Re: CFC Mail [none] Weapons, drugs found in bar raid More funds to battle cancer urged LUFA News Re: COP WEAPONS, DRUGS FOUND IN BAR RAID Police: Snowmobile stickup; ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 22:50:02 -0600 From: Lee Jasper Subject: Deduct costs of gun safety >Friday, February 1, 2002 (No 139) >M-455 - January 31, 2002 - Mr. Breitkreuz (Yorkton-Melville) - >On or after Thursday, February 14, 2002 - That, in the opinion >of this House, the government should make the cost of complying >with federal firearm safe storage regulations fully tax >deductible. In 1995/96 the request to make gun cabinets and safes, lockable carrying cases, trigger and cable locks and another safe transportation and storage equipment tax deductible was presented to (then Elgin-Norfolk) Elgin-Middlesex-London MP Gar Knutson. It was also recommended to the Liberal Party of Canada via a Policy Resolution. The basis for the request and resolution was the 'generalized benefits' to all in society. It was not accepted by the Liberal caucus or the National Policy Committee. As similar request was submitted to the fed gov't and Liberals for the forgiveness of GST on the above items. It was not granted. In all fairness to the fed gov't and fed Liberals, a similar request with the same rationale was presented to the Ontario government and the PCs also refused to forgive the PST. I suspect some argument could be made for deducting the cost oflicencing and registration. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 22:59:06 -0600 From: Barry Glasgow Subject: Your statements in the House Mr. Regan, statements attributed to you and made in the House of Commons on January 29th of this year cause me concern. First of all, you state that an overwhelming majority support the firearms program. I would suggest that you conduct the same poll after informing Canadians of the $700+ million costs to date. While you're at it, release the documents your party has been hiding from Access to Information requests that would tell about the hidden costs - then conduct a poll. You and the Justice Department insist that the law is working because of the number of license and registration refusals. I have many friends who have been refused because of some problem with the application and there are some who have been red-flagged in error by your wonderful FIP database. By the way, I am still waiting for the license I applied for in September. What most troubles me about your condescending speech in Parliament is your claim that "certain members of the recreational firearms community suggest that active firearms owners are leaving the shooting sports as a consequence of the individual licensing and firearms registration requirements included in the Firearms Act, there is no indication that this is true." The Justice Department conducted a survey around 1990 indicating that there were over 6 million gun owners in Canada. After Kim Campbell threatened to put guns in central repositories, that number dropped to around 3 million. After your government introduced legislation (90% of which targets legal gun owners), the number has dropped below 2 million. Your claim would suggest that you are either lacking in intelligence or you believe this of most Canadians. Finally, you claim that "nothing in the Firearms Act precludes Canadians or non-residents from hunting in Canada." Nothing specifically, that is. If you and your Liberal policy makers weren't so out of touch with reality and bothered to consult with affected parties, you would know that American outdoors magazines are littered with articles and letters to the editors expressing outrage at the heavy-handed and misdirected approach taken by your party as well as the tax levied on American hunters when they try to take their hunting rifles across the border. You would know all of these things if your nose wasn't buried so deep in the wrong places. Barry Glasgow Woodlawn, Ontario __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 22:59:07 -0600 From: "John E. Stevens" Subject: Re: Bikers At 09:01 AM 2/5/2002 -0600, Bruce wrote: >"John E. Stevens" wrote: > > This seemed to be supported by the fact that on Sunday, with the same > > crowds of people, the same potential for trouble and the same biker > > presence, all was peaceful, quiet and friendly under the guiding hand of > > two (count 'em) London, regular officers and two elderly Western Fair > > security folk. Strange. >Would you consider sending your point of view to the London Free Press? >I'm sure their readers could benefit from an objective point of view. >Bruce Yes. I did. > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 22:59:09 -0600 From: Michael Ackermann Subject: Brownshirts Rick, Rick, Rick,... I've said it before and I'll say it again. There is a SLIPPERY SLOPE. We of all groups in Canada should know full well how today's benign-seeming and well intentioned law will lead to tomorrow's oppression. Once again, real slow: TODAY's C.O.P.'s aren't the problem. TODAY's police aren't the problem (although they are rapidly becoming a major part of the problem). It is the SLIPPERY SLOPE that they have embarked upon that is the problem. Once we accept three classes of citizens, the political elit, their favoured minions, and the rest of the peasantry we are in grave danger of repeating past mistakes. THAT is what I mean when I say the C.O.P.s make me think of collaborators and Brownshirts. Do you really think they are that much different from the early citizens' groups in Germany in 1934? They, too, were formed with the best of intentions. But once formed they were perverted to do the Tyrant's bidding. So, Rick, cool your jets. Don't get yer knickers in a twist. Don't read more into what I write than is wriiten there. - -- M.J. Ackermann, MD (Mike) President, St. Mary's Shooters Association Box 3, RR 1, 4132 Sonora Rd. Sherbrooke, NS Canada B0J 3C0 902-522-2172 My email: mikeack@ns.sympatico.caSMSA URL: www3.ns.sympatico.ca/mikeack/SMSA_Web_Page.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 22:59:09 -0600 From: Lee Jasper Subject: Success in court I have recently reviewed a number of court transcripts of successful challenges to various charges, etc. under the current FA and older legislation - and am astonished at the number of successful, self-representations against the full gov't legal team. This includes Firearm Officers, Chief Firearms Officers, Crown lawyers. It is notable that the causes of the court actions, including References, often was the simple over-zealous use of the law - against ordinary citizens. It is also notable that the actions typically involved the mis-application of federal legislation - by provincial authorities. One case involved a charge of careless storage (R v. Danbrook). The authorities refused to accept that his locked 'storage room' in which an unloaded rifle was found leaning against a locked gun cabinet. It is important to note that two Rottweilers patrolled the room and the police refused to enter this room until the dogs were secured. The case also clearly points out other factors a gun owner should be aware off. The somewhat optimistic results were obtained by citizens who simply refused to accept less than reasonable treatment. I understand these type of actions cause great anguish for the courts due to their expense and especially because the judge must go to extreme lengths to assure that the respondent (citizen) is educated in the law and receives full benefit from the court. This often includes the assignment of duty counsel to assist in legal interpretations and case presentation. The judge essentially needs to sub as the respondents attorney. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 23:12:08 -0600 From: Michael Ackermann Subject: Proroguing Parliament "The problem with prorogation is that is would also abolish all pending legislation and quash further committee activity." Seems a bit coincidental that the PM wants to quash further committee work just as the Justice and Ethics Committee is getting ready to delve into the C-68 snake pit. In addition, any past laws are considered 'fait accompli' with no chance for further challenge unless reintroduced as a new bill. Sneaky, slimy bastard that he is, the Cretin sure knows how to play the system. What he will in effect do is quit the game when it looks like he may lose, but he gets to take the 'pot' with him. - -- M.J. Ackermann, MD (Mike) President, St. Mary's Shooters Association Box 3, RR 1, 4132 Sonora Rd. Sherbrooke, NS Canada B0J 3C0 902-522-2172 My email: mikeack@ns.sympatico.caSMSA URL: www3.ns.sympatico.ca/mikeack/SMSA_Web_Page.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 23:12:08 -0600 From: Jim Powlesland Subject: Re: CFC Mail On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Frank S. McLeod wrote: > So the Registry has received a million pieces of mail. When they get > around to opening that mail I wonder how many are stuffed with scrap > paper and perhaps a short message? Do you suppose David Austin will tell us in 6 weeks? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 23:12:09 -0600 From: Bruce Mills Subject: [none] Subject: My Letter to the Editor(s) [Just submitted, not yet printed] [Sent to the NatPost, the Edmonton Journal and the Sault Star] - -------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: Duck hunters headed for extinction Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 23:15:00 -0500 From: Bruce Mills To: Editor - National Post I object most strenuously to Norm Ovenden's use of the phrase "gun down" in connection with hunters and hunting. Ethical hunters do not wantonly "gun down" animals; this is an emotionally loaded term most commonly used to refer to illegal acts against human beings. As a supposedly objective journalist Mr. Ovenden should know, and do, better. I also object to his assertion that the declining of migratory game bird hunting permits is "good for birds". Waterfowl hunters are among the most conservation minded people in Canada. Ducks Unlimited was started by hunters who were dismayed at the deterioration of wetlands as waterfowl habitats, and their efforts were specifically geared towards preserving them so that there would be sustainable numbers for future hunters. Monies from hunting licences and waterfowl permits go towards other projects to support such renewable resources. Without hunters, our flocks and herds would be in dismal shape. In fact, so successful have these programs become that every summer newspapers like yours run stories and editorials about how many Canada geese there are in your parks, and the problems they create. We don't need fewer hunters, we actually need more hunters. Barriers to hunting, such as increases in permits and fees, including onerous firearms legislation, and anti-gun and pro animal rights propaganda, are bad for wildlife. Bruce Hamilton Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 23:12:08 -0600 From: Bruce Mills Subject: Weapons, drugs found in bar raid http://www.canoe.ca/TorontoNews/ts.ts-02-05-0035.html Tuesday, February 5, 2002 Weapons, drugs found in bar raid By ROB LAMBERTI, Toronto Sun Loaded handguns, knives and drugs hit the floor when police made a routine liquor inspection at a Toronto bar early yesterday, 13 Division officers said. However, no one was arrested because police were unable to link the weaponss or drugs with any of the 128 patrons at The Supreme on Eglinton Ave. near Oakwood Ave. at 2:55 a.m. Staff-Insp. Randall Munroe said when officers entered the bar's basement -- an area which is apparently unlicensed to serve liquor -- an officer found a handgun on the floor. BAR LOCKED DOWN Backup was called in and the bar was locked down. Cops found a 9-mm Luger handgun, a .22-calibre semi-automatic pistol, two .357-calibre revolvers, several sharp-edged weapons, crack and marijuana on the floor. Patrons filed out one-by-one after a search and an identity check. "It tells us there are guns out there in the community," Munroe said, adding they're often found where there are drugs and booze. "It becomes a volatile mix." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 23:12:09 -0600 From: Bruce Mills Subject: More funds to battle cancer urged Fire up your typrewritters for those letters to the editor - $700 million wasted on registering Uncle George's duck gun, insstead of funding real projects for real people. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/printarticle/gam/20020205/UCANCM More funds to battle cancer urged By RICHARD MACKIE Tuesday, February 5, 2002 ­ Print Edition, Page A10 The fight against cancer in Ontario got a major boost yesterday with a report to the government calling for more money and more co-ordination of the efforts of surgeons, hospitals, radiation specialists and others in the health-care system. The disease is becoming more widespread in the province, according to the report, which predicts the number of people being diagnosed with cancer will increase at a rate of 3 per cent a year over the next five years. By 2005, the report estimates, 475,000 people will be living with cancer in Ontario, an increase over five years of 11.7 per cent. The province's population will be about 12 million. "Cancer care in Ontario is becoming increasingly important. The proportion of disease and deaths from cancer is dramatically increasing," the report says. "Currently, Ontario spends about $1.5-billion [a year] on cancer care with increasing pressures to invest more." The report rejects attempts that became public last spring to break up Cancer Care Ontario and give more control over the funds allocated for fighting cancer to the province's hospitals. Instead, it says the government, working with Cancer Care Ontario and others in the system, should improve the way money is spent in fighting the disease and should listen to the agency's proposals for improving the whole health-care system. The training and recruitment of cancer specialists also needs to be upgraded, it says. The report is expected to carry considerable weight with the government. The committee that wrote it was chaired by Alan Hudson, former president of the Toronto University Health Network who also has heavy political clout in Ontario. Dr. Hudson has been named the next head of Cancer Care Ontario, putting him in a position to fight to strengthen the agency and its efforts to combat the disease. As one of the province's most experienced hospital administrators, he is familiar with the internal politics of health care and the provincial Health Ministry. Health Minister Tony Clement was quick to endorse the report yesterday. "I will take the report extremely seriously as I review it," he said. The need for the report started with Mr. Clement's efforts to reorganize cancer treatment and the minister noted the report had agreed that change is required. "Cancer care is fragmented and needs to be better co-ordinated," the report says. It adds, "Funding approaches are inadequate to ensure appropriate cancer funding in hospitals. (Currently hospitals can allocate their budgets according to their individual priorities.)" Copyright © 2002 Bell Globemedia Interactive Inc. All Rights Reserved. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 23:12:09 -0600 From: Edward Hudson Subject: LUFA News News Release Law-abiding Unregistered Firearms Association (LUFA) Rocky Mountain House, Alberta Monday 04Feb02 The LUFA Board of Directors is pleased to announce the election of Mr Jim Turnbull as President. Mr Turnbull, formerly of Sundre, Alberta, who now resides in Martinsville, Saskatchewan previously served LUFA as National Spokesperson. Mr Turnbull brings an abundance of energy and enthusiasm to the organization at a time when every individuals' actions are urgently needed to protect our freedoms and liberties. Mr Turnbull's his first duty as President of LUFA is the preparation of a national resistance movement to protect Canada's unique heritage and culture from "desecration". Mr Turnbull, a Korean War Royal Canadian Navy veteran, is a firearms owner who has personally pledged to "go to jail" before submitting to firearm registration. "JT", as his young grandson calls him, states unequivocally, Bill C-68 is not about firearms control, it is an assault on our basic freedoms. Mr Turnbull believes that "Canadians must be willing to protect our Liberty, or we will lose our rights as free people". Mr Turnbull readily acknowledges that the federal government has the responsibility and the authority to ensure the safety of all Canadians, stating he fully supports laws which protect people. But Mr Turnbull stresses that Canadians have a duty to ensure that their government acts in a responsible manner and provides the best protection possible. Mr Turnbull considers Bill C-68, the Firearms Act of 1995, to be "a piece of rotten cow placenta" hanging around our necks, a law that strips basic rights from every citizen in Canada - both firearms owners and people who own only cats. "When the average Canadian realizes what Bill C-68 contains, when ordinary Canadians realize what lies the federal government has told to pass this law, when the average Canadian learns what vast amounts of money has been wasted on this fraudulent piece of garbage, I will be released from jail. If this law is not repealed, Canadians will have lost their freedoms, and we might as well all live in prison." Mr Turnbull abhors violence in any fashion and emphasizes that any action he encourages to oppose this law will be "strictly done as Mahatma Gandhi would advise - absolutely nothing except peaceful resistance". Mr Turnbull pointed out that Martin Luther King Jr freed the blacks from political oppression in the American South without violence by employing Gandhi's principles. "Our task is no less great", Mr Trumbull stated in calling for a national civil resistance movement to overturn "bad law". "If we fail to protect our rights now, we will fail our children and our grandchildren. I, for one, and not prepared to fail." Law-abiding Unregistered Firearms Association (LUFA) is a nonprofit society charter under the Society Act of Alberta, November 1998, dedicated to the protection of liberty and Canadian heritage. For more information contact: Ed Hudson 1-306-242-2379 edwardhudson@shaw.ca 1-306-249-2359 (fax) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 23:12:09 -0600 From: "e.m. acount" Subject: Re: COP Rick Lowe said: >As for the "collaborators and Brownshirts"... I fail to see the logic in >these ongoing statements. Are the police collaborators and Brownshirts >because of >the the actions of some police officer like Cst. Dennis Johnson towards >firearm owners? No. In this comparison, where the roughnecks wear brown, the police are left to wear black. As most Canadian police forces have already adopted this colour of uniform, no imagination should be required. >But wait - you don't belong to the police profession, medical profession, >or a union. Are you trustworthy? Perhaps... as long as you aren't a member >of the United Church, Lutheran church, Mennonite, Quaker or the Jewish >faith. Those respective churches all support the Firearms Act, so of course >all those affiliated with those faiths are also collaborators and >Brownshirts. Anybody left out there who ISN'T a collaborator and >Brownshirt? Well, me for one. But, my personal virtue isn't the issue here. You miss the unique position of the police. Your doctor may counsel you not to own guns; your union may strike out against firearm ownership; and your minister may condemn the shooting sports. But! this is all speech. The police, alone among all of the groups you listed, can and will use violent force instead of persuasion to promote and enforce the cause of gun control. I can ignore Rabbi Zelman's speech about the danger of pocket rockets, but having Constable O'Connor's size-13 boot on my throat is much more compelling. >If you want to see an example of a job well done in selling a position, go >to: > >http://www.guncontrol.ca/Content/default-english.htm > >Yes, it is full of errors that are closer to being outright lies than >anything else. Yes, it uses research that has been refuted time and again. >Yes, it plays on emotionalism and suggestive language. Yes, it uses logical >fallacies. > >The sooner we match her in professionalism and getting >OUR message across, the greater our chances of winning this battle. Nasty >labels and hotheaded comments aren't the way to do it. If you want to set up http://www.mindcontrol.ca as a centre for opinion-free, fact-free gun advocacy, go ahead! But, I don't think the rest of us are going to close our mouths and wait to receive your notice that C-68 has been repealed. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 23:26:08 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: WEAPONS, DRUGS FOUND IN BAR RAID PUBLICATION: The Toronto Sun DATE: 2002.02.05 SECTION: News PAGE: 25 BYLINE: Rob Lamberti - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- WEAPONS, DRUGS FOUND IN BAR RAID - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- Loaded handguns, knives and drugs hit the floor when police made a routine liquor inspection at a Toronto bar early yesterday, 13 Division officers said. However, no one was arrested because police were unable to link the weaponss or drugs with any of the 128 patrons at The Supreme on Eglinton Ave. near Oakwood Ave. at 2:55 a.m. Staff-Insp. Randall Munroe said when officers entered the bar's basement -- an area which is apparently unlicensed to serve liquor -- an officer found a on the floor. BAR LOCKED DOWN Backup was called in and the bar was locked down. Cops found a 9-mm Luger , a .22-calibre semi-automatic pistol, two .357-calibre revolvers, several sharp-edged weapons, crack and marijuana on the floor. Patrons filed out one-by-one after a search and an identity check. "It tells us there are guns out there in the community," Munroe said, adding they're often found where there are drugs and booze. "It becomes a volatilemix." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 23:26:09 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Police: Snowmobile stickup; PUBLICATION: The Kingston Whig-Standard DATE: 2002.02.05 EDITION: Final SECTION: Community PAGE: 1 / Front COLUMN: Newsline SOURCE: The Kingston Whig-Standard - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- Police: Snowmobile stickup; real heel on wheels - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- A snowmobiler showed Centre Hastings OPP a new variation on an old crime Sunday when he held up a cyclist on Station Road, just east of Marmora. The 29-year-old victim told police the snowmobiler produced a and demanded money. The cyclist handed over a small amount of cash and the snowmobiler drove away. The stickup man is tall and thin and was wearing a black snowmobile suit. His getaway vehicle was an older model, blue snowmobile. Meanwhile, the hunt is on for a rude, crude ATV operator in the Battersea area after he flipped the bird at a woman disturbed by his trespass on her property at 3:30 a.m. Saturday. The complainant called Frontenac OPP after she was disturbed twice in the early hours. The woman went to her front door and motioned at the ATV's driver to stop, but she told police his only response was to give her the finger and continue on hisway. ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V4 #518 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:acardin33@shaw.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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