From: Cdn-Firearms Digest [owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca] Sent: Friday, 08 February, 2002 11:58 To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V4 #528 Cdn-Firearms Digest Friday, February 8 2002 Volume 04 : Number 528 In this issue: Re: Duck hunters headed for extinction: Location of BDP Ottawa Processing Centre Outfitters urged to watch for suspicious 'tourists' t BRILLIANT MOVE, McCOSHAM happy ending Re: BRILLIANT MOVE, McCOSHAM disarmament doesn't work Peter K Vs the rest Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V4 #524 The cost of Bill C-68 Re: Alan Carlos. Of the Yukon "simple" Guides, outfitters asked to spy on clients prior to summit Animal Rights laws need teeth... Re: Message from an ignorant lout. (Who's last name begins with "K") Re: Duking it out on the Digest..... just a test unknown communication Police arrest five after standoff in Richmond Letter: Hunters: let's take aim! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 17:51:51 -0600 From: Jim Powlesland Subject: Re: Duck hunters headed for extinction: >On Tue, 5 Feb 2002, Lee Jasper wrote: > > > > In Alberta, the province with the highest firearm ownership per > > > capita, the drop in activity has been even more dramatic, falling > > > to 22,000 permits from 82,000 -- down 73%. > >Actually if you look at the CWS table more closely, you will see that, >unlike most provinces, Alberta waterfowler numbers *increased* in 2000. > >(Alberta - 22,238 in 1998; 21,415 in 1999; 21,792 in 2000) > >My guess is that that will increase again in 2001 and 2002. > > > And the westerners blame the eastern urbanites for the erosion. > >Hunter numbers peaked in the mid-1980s across North America and began a >steady decline until about the mid-90s when it levelled off. Alberta was >no exception. > >I have read plenty of speculation on why it occurred but not once have I >read that Canadian "westerners blame the eastern urbanites for the >erosion". > >Do you have anything to back up that statement? Or are you just blowing >smoke again? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 17:51:51 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Location of BDP Ottawa Processing Centre BDP Business Data Services Limited 2405 St. Laurent Boulevard - Unit K Ottawa Ontario K1G 5B4 BDP Business Data Services Limited Data and Image Capture Services Contract By Garry Breitkreuz, MP - Updated: January 23, 2002 Customer: Department of Justice Canada - Canadian Firearms Centre Contract Number Award Value Award Date 1. 19162-990181/001/XG $4,800,555 Jul 18, 2000 2. 19162-990181/001/XG $ 48,805 Oct 12, 2000 3. 19162-990181/001/XG $ 963,282 Oct 12, 2000 4. 19162-990181/001/XG $ 48,791 Dec 18, 2000 5. 19162-990181/001/XG $ 464,994 Jan 02, 2001 6. 19162-990181/001/XG $1,014,119 Feb 16, 2001 7. 19162-990181/001/XG $ 111,260 Feb 21, 2001 8. 19162-990181/001/XG $ 7,223 Mar 23, 2001 9. 19162-990181/001/XG $ 336,665 Apr 27, 2001 10. 19162-990181/001/XG $ 216,669 Jun 22, 2001 11. 19162-990181/001/XG $ 421,715 Jul 06, 2001 12. 19162-990181/001/XG $ 321,088 Jul 18, 2001 13. 19162-990181/001/XG $ 349,967 Aug 22, 2001 14. 19162-990181/001/XG $8,560,000 Nov 20, 2001 NOTE: 1 to 14 for a total value of $17,665,133 Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Source: Contracts Canada documents from Library of Parliament - January 22,2002 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 18:22:50 -0600 From: Bruce Mills Subject: Outfitters urged to watch for suspicious 'tourists' t If I were the Horse Fuzz, I"d be more concerned about disgruntled outfitters showing protestors the way - in protest, of course. http://www.canada.com/components/printstory/printstory.asp?id={DDD289E3-8C87-41F4-8DC6-C836C39DF75F} Outfitters urged to watch for suspicious 'tourists' G-8 SECURITY: THE BUCKSKIN BRIGADE Mark Reid Edmonton Journal Thursday, February 07, 2002 G-8 security officials are urging Kananaskis outfitters and guides to be the first line of defence against terrorists by reporting suspicious clients eager to snoop around the summit site. Calgary RCMP Cpl. James Johnston said officials need the help of outfitters to thwart ne'er-do-wells who might pose as tourists to gain intelligence on summit security. "Security is everybody's concern here," said Johnston, a G-8 security spokesman. "We're only as good as our intelligence. When red flags go out (about suspicious clients) to (outfitters), we would certainly ask them . . . to contact their local police or G-8 planning crew." The G-8 summit will run June 26 and 27 in Kananaskis Village, a mountain resort about 100 kilometres west of Calgary. The meeting will be attended by leaders of the world's eight most powerful countries. K-Country's alpine wilderness is ideal for hiking, camping and horseback riding and is used by numerous outfitters, guides and outdoor adventure companies. The G-8 security team is sending letters to touring and guiding companies, urging them to be on alert for customers who seem too interested in the G-8. Johnston said outfitters with concerns over clients should call police and "advise them: 'Hey, I talked to this person, and he asked these specific questions, and I'm a little concerned ... ' "By providing that kind of intelligence," Johnston added, "we can ensure the peaceful conclusion of the summit." That said, the outdoor adventure operators would like a little information of their own -- specifically, how seriously the G-8 will disrupt their business. "We don't know a darn thing," said Jan Matthews, co-owner of Anchor D Guiding and Outfitting Ltd. of Turner Valley, south of Calgary. "We've been writing letters all over the place, trying to find out what (G-8 officials) want to close down, and what we can do to continue with our business -- but we haven't had any response at all." G-8 officials have said they will impose a security perimeter around Kananaskis Village prior to the summit, but have not released specifics on the plan. Matthews said clients are booking tours months in advance. "It would be a real shame if we have to say to these people at the last minute: "Sorry, you can't come.' " Abe Deyto, marketing co-ordinator for Creative Western Adventures Ltd. of Calgary, found it odd the RCMP would ask tour operators to act as informants. "Security is a big concern, but it's not why we're in business," Deyto said. "We're here to conduct tours." Johnston, the G-8 security spokesman, said RCMP will do security checks on all workers at the summit, as well as on some tour operators and outfitters who need to be in the area during the event. Only those providing services at the G-8 -- such as catering, cleaning and garbage collection -- will be allowed into the main summit site. Johnston stressed G-8 security officials have no plans to close all of K-Country to the public. "It's a balance we have to meet with all users in the area," he said. "We are not talking about K-Country being shut down to the public, but . . . there won't be just random groups © Copyright 2002 Edmonton Journal Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 18:23:13 -0600 From: "Bob Lickacz" Subject: BRILLIANT MOVE, McCOSHAM and they're Subject: happy ending 11-year-old shoots, kills assailant threatening his grandmother By GWEN O'BRIEN Tribune Staff Writer SOUTH BEND - When Tony D. Murry held a box cutter to Sue Gay's neck Monday night, Gay's 11-year-old adopted son ran upstairs at the home at 1348 N. Huey St. and grabbed a gun. "He hit the bottom of the stairs with the .45 and stood ready stance with the gun," said Gay with feet spread apart and her hands outstretched as if holding a handgun. The boy shot one round and hit Murry, 27, in the chest, even though the man was shielding himself with Gay. "I don't know how he did that. One shot and he got him. He's my little hero," Gay said of the grandson she adopted... [more] http://www.southbendtribune.com/breakingnews/posts /293.html - --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by AEBC's Anti-virus system (beta test).] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 22:00:22 -0600 From: "John E. Stevens" Subject: Re: BRILLIANT MOVE, McCOSHAM At 06:23 PM 2/7/2002 -0600, Bob wrote: >[snip]Suppose those guns would be highly prized by you local Gentlemen's >Motorcycle Club and that those same motorcycle enthusiasts had one of their >girlfriends working for the company that runs the "outsourced" gun registry. good grief. Ain't life a misery around here. I own guns and one of them big ol' motorcicles. Is there no help for the widow's son? You don't suppose we could start a rumour that Wendy rides a harley. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 22:00:22 -0600 From: wrpa Subject: disarmament doesn't work Subject: disarmament doesn't work Jason Hayes wrote: "Although I do not advocate persons creating their own firearms, for obvious legal reasons" What obvious legal reasons? What law prevents you from building your own gun? As far as I know (correct me if i'm wrong) there is no Canadian law prohibiting the manufacture of a firearm by an individual. Moderator: one problem would be deciding at what point in manufacture it becomes a firearm that requires registration. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 22:01:14 -0600 From: Ian Parkinson Subject: Peter K Vs the rest I seem to recall Peter K and Co were due their day in court this week. Any news?? Moderator: The case was adjourned without plea for about 4 months at the Crown's request. The investigation continues they say. What they don't say is that the investigation is probably to try and find a way out for them. They expected a little puppy and caught a bulldog! Now they are realizing the difference. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 22:03:12 -0600 From: Rick Lowe Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V4 #524 "Howard Magda" > to speak to me. I contacted Det. Sergeant Baumann. He informed me that the > OPP monitors all telecommunications for keywords like police. He used the Oh dear! It sounds like you should immediately have your lawyer send a registered letter to the Ontario Attorney General demanding more information on the search warrants the OPP is using to intercept telephone calls at random. And in the letter point out to the A-G that you know this is happening because you have Det. Sgt. Baumann on tape telling you they do this! Send a copy to the justice critic for the Official Opposition... I'm sure they'll ALL want more information from Det. Sgt. Baumann... > Internet. His tone changed. He asked me if I knew that taping > telecommunications was illegal. I informed him I knew it was not illegal to Sounds like threatening harassment to me... lawyer time again. "Cst. Baumann" has a nice ring to it... EI claimant sounds even better, but this is so stupid they probably won't can him for it. Unlike an email for evidence that has to be retrieved from a server and can be destroyed by simply "forgetting" to get it, tape in YOUR hands is oh so much better. Have fun... BTW, what are Baumann's connections to the firearms bureaucracy? He sounds likeOntario's version of Glen Vermette ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 22:23:56 -0600 From: Alfred Hovdestad Subject: The cost of Bill C-68 Dear Mr. Cauchon: There are now less than eleven months left before the deadline for registration of all firearms in Canada. Recent documents show that the Canadian Firearms Centre (CFC) admits to spending $700 million to date with more costs hidden under the guise of Cabinet secrecy. On top of that, they are contracting out the registration process at an additional cost of $300 million (if they can find anyone to do it for that little). The latest estimate from the CFC puts the number of firearms in Canada at 7 million. If you can believe that figure ask yourself this, "How many of those firearms are single shot .22's, 60 year old Lee Enfields and how much are they worth?" If the average cost of a firearm in Canada is $200, the CFC will soon have spent more on registration than the combined value of all the firearms in Canada. In other words, it would have been cheaper for Ottawa to buy all of the firearms in Canada than to register them. Alfred Hovdestad Saskatoon cc: Dr. Jim Pankiw Gary Breitkreuz National Firearms Association Cdn-Firearms Digest ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 22:23:57 -0600 From: wrpa Subject: Re: Alan Carlos. Of the Yukon "simple" Mike Hargreaves wrote: "Storage is just that! Locked away, when you are away, so no thieving bugger can take them away! simple. The exact letter of the law is quite simple, no loaded guns can be stored in your safe!" Sorry Mike but Law is not simple. If it was we would have no need for lawyers. Storage regulation, 6.An individual may store a restricted firearm only if (a) it is unloaded; (b) it is (ii) stored in a vault, safe or room that has been specifically constructed or modified for the secure storage of restricted firearms and that is kept securely locked; Lets say I have a specially constructed room that meets the above requirements to store my handguns. Since I dedicated the room for the storage of my guns I also have a table in the room I use to inspect and clean my guns. So I can now store my guns in my secure room. They are stored and not in use. I can use the same room to inspect and clean my guns. Say I'm cleaning my Desert Eagle on the table. I am currently not storing my gun since it is in use but it is still in my legal storage container (room). The remainder of my guns were stored and not in use while I was cleaning the Desert Eagle. Say I had someone at the door ringing my door bell. I would put down my gun, leave the room, lock the room then answer the door. My gun was still on the table with a cleaning rod down the barrel. It is still in the locked room with the rest of my handguns. Since I left my room to check on the door, is the gun now stored or just secured until I can return to continue cleaning it? Since I'm still smelling of Hoppes #9 cleaning fluid most normal people would look at the scene and determine that I am cleaning my gun and it is not stored although it is in its normal storage container. Now Alan Carlos may not have been as fortunate and not have a room specially constructed for the storage of restricted firearms. How is his situation much different than mine above. He did not just put down the gun on his kitchen table and answer the door. Under stress he tried to secure the guns and answer the door in a timely manner. I think he did the right thing in trying to secure his guns in a safe manner (pun intended). Fortunately he did not try to carry three guns to the safe at once (probably prevented an unintentional discharge). Mike Hargreaves wrote: "Storage is just that! Locked away, when you are away" I say the the original Judge had it right. The guns may have been in the safe used for storage but that does not mean they were being stored. I should have been a lawyer, Rudy - ------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 22:23:57 -0600 From: "Walter Hornby" Subject: Guides, outfitters asked to spy on clients prior to summit Alberta news Thursday , Feb 07, 2002 print this page Guides, outfitters asked to spy on clients prior to summit CALGARY (Alberta.com) ­— Alberta outfitters and guides are being asked to spy on clients they suspect are really gathering intelligence on the site or security for the June, G-8 summit. Calgary RCMP Cpl. James Johnston told the Calgary Herald that, "security is everybody's concern (and) we're only as good as our intelligence." The summit will be made up of leaders of the world's eight most powerful nations and will be held June 26-27 in Kananaskis Village. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 22:23:55 -0600 From: "A Engel" Subject: Animal Rights laws need teeth... Right after my letters about being more professional, this.... "Clayton Ruby, the lawyer darling of the cookier group opens his mouth again but p[rovides little if any true insight. More hot air withoput backup read on! Some serial killers tortured animals when they were young. < Well cmon now... which serial killer specifically did this...tell us ..no more straw men Clay!" You have asked for this..... 'Hunting Humans' by Elliot Leyton: refer to section on Edmund Kemper. His first killing was burying the family cat alive... Others as well started out on animals. I gave you the first example. Now do your own research for more examples and please be a little more careful with snide statements about the people who oppose us. They are not as stupid as we might wish them to be... ~Sighs~ Andy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 23:53:38 -0600 From: Peter Kearns Subject: Re: Message from an ignorant lout. (Who's last name begins with "K") A. Engel wrote: > > > > As a native-born German, I have long found the constant 'K' business > > (Kanada, Kustoms, etc.) and the rest of the German language insinuations > - -snip- > Peter Kearns wrote: I am rather proud to be a thick headed oaf, (perhaps because my great grandparents were German,) and suffer no pangs of "konscience" caused by my use of the "K" word. I wonder if any of the "kustoms klowns" or "stadzpolitzei" worried about hurting my "feelings" when they caused me financial damage, filed false criminal charges, and blackened my name. Frankly Mr. Engel, you can always use delete. Neither you nor anyone else will censor me. Now, have a really nice day. Peter "K"earns Simon says: "You can please some of the people some of the time, but who the hell really cares about the odd one who gets pissed off about trifles." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 23:53:39 -0600 From: Peter Kearns Subject: Re: Duking it out on the Digest..... I find the dialogue between "e.m. acount" and Rick Lowe interesting and amusing. I personally hope it goes on for a while. Both are talented at this type of exchange, and it sure makes much more pleasant reading than people touting their pick for leader of the Alliance. Keep up the great work guys! Peter Simon says: "Don't worry about the anti's being offended by your wit and remarks guys, they don't have the brains to enjoy good clean literary brawling........" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 10:54:39 -0600 From: Skeeter.Abell-Smith (skeeter@skatter.usask.ca) Subject: just a test just a test...please ignore... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 11:57:51 -0600 From: MJ Subject: unknown unverified not sure not indicated I don't know I'm not sure not shown any other good alternative answers? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 11:57:52 -0600 From: MJ Subject: communication Gun control has cost the average Canadian family about $50 over the past six years. Most families spent more on holiday gift wrap, and consider gun control a bargain. The outrageous $600 million dollar cost over-run of the gun control program has crippled our health care system. That much money would put a staffed MRI machine in a hospital in every MLA's riding. Same numbers, the only difference is the direction of the spin. Everyone defines their own reality from the facts available. MJ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 11:57:52 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Police arrest five after standoff in Richmond PUBLICATION: Vancouver Sun DATE: 2002.02.08 EDITION: Final SECTION: News PAGE: B2 SOURCE: Vancouver Sun - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- Police arrest five after standoff in Richmond - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- Richmond RCMP and Vancouver police arrested five men Thursday after a lengthy standoff at a luxury east Richmond home police said was used as a major marijuana-growing operation. Two of those arrested were aged 15 and 17. They surrendered without incident when police surrounded the home at the 2200-block of Rathburn Drive about 8 a.m. But three other men inside the home refused to come out until four hours later, when they surrendered without incident around 12:30 p.m. "We made contact with the residents in the immediate areas to stay in their homes and away from the windows," said Richmond RCMP Constable Peter Thiessen. "We had intelligence there were in the house." Under a search warrant taken out by Vancouver police, about 30 officers from both detachments entered the house after the five men were taken into custody. "This is an upscale home and the entire top floor and attic was used to grow marijuana," Thiessen said Thursday. "We are still searching for weapons." Thiessen said police believe those arrested are involved in Vietnamese gangs and have organized crime connections. The five men are now in police custody and charges will be laid Friday. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 11:57:52 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Letter: Hunters: let's take aim! PUBLICATION: The Whitehorse Star DATE: 2002.02.07 SECTION: Opinion PAGE: 7 COLUMN: Letters to the Editor - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- Hunters: let's take aim! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- In 1995, the Liberal government passed Bill C-68, a costly and ineffective law that requires all law-abiding citizens in Canada to register their hunting rifles by 2003 or face criminal charges and imprisonment. Most hunters feel the ultimate aim of the law is to confiscate all from the law-abiding citizens of Canada. As of December 2000 (government records are not being released since then), the registry has managed an enviable record of registering each hunting rifle at a cost of $1,252.96 per firearm. This number was arrived at by taking their admitted expenditure of $319 million of taxpayers' money and dividing it by the number of registrations applied for (254,596). By using the RCMP's previous estimates of 21 million in Canada, the eventual registry cost will be $26,312,160,000 ($26.3 billion) of taxpayers' money. More appalling than the cost of this program is the arrogance of this government to assume that all the hunters out here will just cave in and comply. We are not criminals and we will not be treated as such. We must stand up and fight this unjust law that targets the law-abiding gun owners in Canada. I don't think I have met a hunter who hasn't said to me, "We should all just take a year off and not hunt. That might send them a message. Think of the revenue they would lose." Let's do it! I am looking for your support in a campaign to boycott hunting in all the provinces in Canada for 2002. Don't purchase a hunting licence. I would like to begin an organization to get this thing rolling. The cost to join is "Giving up hunting for 2002." Are you willing to pay the price? If I have your support on this, please fax me at 613-283-3030 or e-mail me at jim@homes-cottages.com Jim Bennett Lombardy, Ont. ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V4 #528 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:acardin33@shaw.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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