From: Cdn-Firearms Digest [owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca] Sent: Friday, 08 February, 2002 12:09 To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V4 #529 Cdn-Firearms Digest Friday, February 8 2002 Volume 04 : Number 529 In this issue: [none] [none] Man faces charges after second raid Public pressure spurred police probe: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 11:57:53 -0600 From: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: [none] [192.197.82.136]) by broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA20237 for ; Fri, 8 Feb 2002 06:23:17 -0600 by parl136.parl.gc.ca (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2) id g18CYLD15974 for ; Fri, 8 Feb 2002 07:34:21 - -0500 (EST) via csmap (2.0) id srcAAAfKaOmF; Fri, 8 Feb 02 07:34:21 -0500 id <1FM18BL3>; Fri, 8 Feb 2002 07:34:21 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" To: "Firearms Digest (E-mail)" Subject: Police search B.C. pig farm for 50 women: Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 07:34:20 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" PUBLICATION: National Post DATE: 2002.02.08 EDITION: Toronto / Late SECTION: News PAGE: A2 BYLINE: Ian Bailey and Mark Hume SOURCE: National Post, with files from The Vancouver Sun and TheProvince DATELINE: PORT COQUITLAM, B.C.; Port Coquitlam; Vancouver ILLUSTRATION: Black & White Photo: Jeff Vinnick, National Post / An RCMPvehicle sits amid the junk on a pig farm in Port Coquitlam, B.C., yesterday as investigators prepare to pore over the site.; Black & White Photo: Global BCTV / Robert Pickton, shown in 1996 news footage, was charged with a offence yesterday. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- Police search B.C. pig farm for 50 women: Murder investigation: ID papers of some of the missing found on property - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- PORT COQUITLAM, B.C. - Police seeking 50 women who have vanished from Vancouver's skid row since the mid-1980s have sealed a pig farm in this suburb east of Vancouver and are preparing for a massive search that could involve excavating the property. Dozens of Mounties descended on the site yesterday, preparing to pore over the 11-hectare farm, after police searching for found personal identification papers for a number of the missing women. The RCMP said yesterday the discovery could be a major break in an investigation that has seen police review thousands of files on assaults, murders and other crimes against sex-trade workers. A joint Vancouver police-RCMP task force has been on the case since the spring of 2001, trying to figure out what happened to the women. As the search began yesterday, one of the farm's residents was charged with violations stemming from a search on Tuesday. Robert William Pickton, 52, is charged with improper storage of a .22 calibre revolver, possessing a firearm without a licence and possession of a loaded restricted firearm. Police said he is not being held in custody and has not been been charged with any offences relating to the disappearance of women. The RCMP yesterday refused to reveal whether they had found evidence of human remains. "We are not in a position to disclose to the media or the public any physical evidence that we may find here at this property or any other property because that may be used as direct evidence in court," Constable Catherine Galliford said. But according to The Vancouver Sun, city police identified Mr. Pickton, known as Willy, as a person of interest in the case as early as July, 1998. Investigators received a tip that a woman had been inside a trailer on Mr. Pickton's property and had seen bags of bloody clothing as well as women's identification. Detectives also learned Mr. Pickton had been charged the previous year with a knife attack on a Vancouver prostitute in Port Coquitlam on March 23, 1997. All the charges -- including one of attempted murder -- were stayed on Jan. 28, 1998. Later, Vancouver police developed a second, independent source who also offered information that a woman had seen a woman's body on the property. Vancouver detectives pursued the information, but ran into problems because Mr. Pickton resided in Coquitlam RCMP's jurisdiction. According to the Sun, as other officers from B.C.'s unsolved homicide unit became involved, there was a disagreement over the accuracy of some of the information and the investigation stalled. Meanwhile, women continued to disappear. Yesterday, the mother of one of the missing women recounted how she was led by terrified prostitutes almost two years ago to the Port Coquitlam farm. Lynn Frey, of Campbell River, B.C., said she spent days searching and talking to women in Vancouver's downtown eastside after her daughter Marnie went missing in August, 1997. "We drove by the farm that the women had told us about, and it was exactly as they had described, when they told us all these women had been taken out to party. I just felt a chill because I suddenly felt in my heart that Marnie was there," Ms. Frey recalled. "We had been told there was a rundown house and a dumpy yard with a woodchipper on the property and lots of piles of dirt. We drove up to the place to look around and it was just as they said. Then these large dogs came running out after us and I felt so terrifed and it was so creepy that we drove away." Ms. Frey said she immediately reported the location of the farm to the Vancouver city police, "but as far as I know they never went out there. I told them what all the women on the downtown eastside were saying but they treated us as though we were crazy, and wouldn't even take down the address of the farm." Vancouver police admitted yesterday they should have moved much sooner to pool their information with other police forces on the missing women file. "Perhaps we didn't share enough information at the outset," said Detetective Scott Driemel, a Vancouver police spokesman. He said police at first failed to realize the size and scope of the case, or the possible connection among so many of the missing. "It's been a tough case," he said. "We certainly didn't have a playbook to work from." Mr. Pickton lives at the farm with his brother, David. Neither was on the property yesterday. Const. Galliford indicated their whereabouts are not a concern to investigators, but would not be more specific. The only resident of the farm present, as scores of police, reporters, schoolchildren and neighbours descended on the property, was a friendly Rottweiler, which roamed around cozying up to reporters and police. The Mayor of Port Coquitlam said police appeared to have substantial evidence in the case. "The leads that have led them to this property at this particular time are particularly strong," Scott Young said, declining to provide more details. City staff have provided police with maps and aerial photos to help in the search. In the coming days, police will begin poring over buildings on the site and likely excavate some of the property, which includes a barn, bungalow, trailer and mounds of earth and excavation equipment, Mr. Young said. News of the search brought at least one relative of the missing women to the farm yesterday. Sherry Koski, whose sister Kerry Lynn Koski has been missing since January, 1998, sobbed as she spoke to police officers on the site. She brushed by reporters, saying she didn't feel like talking to the media. Sandra Gagnon, whose sister Janet Henry vanished on June 25, 1997, leaving her daughter and $115 in the bank, said she was "totally shocked" by the news. "It's a bit overwhelming and scary at the same time," she said. "I just hope this time we're going to get some answers." Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 11:57:48 -0600 From: Rick Lowe Subject: [none] "e.m. acount" said: > I believe the OPP dropped the milk-man uniform at least two years ago. And now they're dressed in the dreaded black? I still don't accept your claim that most police forces in Canada are now uniformed in black. Convince me I'm wrong and you're right. On second thought, don't bother; the color of uniform they wear is only relevant to how high their annual dry cleaning bill is, not whether they perform their jobs within the law or outside the law. > I am sure that you understand how daft this sounds. While the police may Not daft at all - just your basic cause and effect. Cukier and her ilk push that firearms are the cause of crime rather than the intent of the individual, and you appear to think that police, simply by being police, are the cause of some problems with the Firearms Act. And I think THAT'S daft. > Intent is the key thing that differentiates them from a gun. To repeat a > well-known bromide: "Guns don't kill people, people kill people." The cops > are the people. They are wilful actors, not clumps of metal. So are the "law abiding firearms owners" people when some of their number decide to commit murders and other criminal acts with firearms. So if you want to throw all police officers in the same bucket because of the criminal/malicious acts of a few, then I guess we have nothing to whine about when Cukier or one of her cronies lumps all firearms owners together because of the criminal/malicious actions of a few firearms owners. Much as you might like to, you can't get away with one rule for them and one rule for us... > Look to another currently active thread to find my response to the idea that > it is a good thing to do bad things because you made a promise. Oh, that's one I REALLY love. "The police shouldn't enforce the (fill in the blank) Act because WE believe the (fill in the blank) Act is a bad thing." It reminds me of a trial I had a very minor part in once when a member of NAMBLA said that the police shouldn't be arresting and charging NAMBLA members for having sex with underage boys because it was a bad law that interfered with the sexual rights of the boys and the boys really liked it. Yep, he said that. Go check out their website if you have a strong enough stomach. Well, "we" have our opinions on what is bad law - and other people have THEIR idea of what is bad law. We don't live in a vacuum in this country, remember? If we get to make the decision about whether the Firearms Act is a bad thing that the police shouldn't enforce, I guess the NAMBLA pedophiles get to make the decision about whether having sex with your kid is a law that should be enforced. No thanks... my Canada doesn't include letting vested interests - good or bad - decide which laws that affect them are good laws or not. But let's say we think it's a good idea for police to have the right to ignore the oath of office to enforce legally enacted legislation, presumably because they agree with us and believe it is bad law. We have now given police the authority to decide how to enforce legislation, based on THEIR perception of whether that legislation is good or bad. Let's see how this plays out. So Cst. Goodguy says, "I see I have found you with an unregistered firearm, Mr. e.m. acount and it is now 2003. Hey, don't worry about it - I think that law is a bad thing so my interpretation is that I'm not going to enforce it." So far, so good - we're batting a thousand and getting warm fuzzy feelings all over. However, Cst. Goodguy isn't the only policeman in the province - and each have the right to do with the law as they see fit. It turns out we have another policeman in the province, let's call him Cst. Johnson, and he just happens to have become the Deputy Firearms Officer for the province. "My God" says the mythical Cst. Johnson, "there are all those people out there with guns, getting permits to purchase handguns, take handguns to the range, applying for and getting PALs, etc. Fortunately, the wise people of this province have allowed not just Cst. Goodguy, but me as well to decide for ourselves what laws we will and will not comply with. So I have decided that I simply am not going to issue ANY permits/licenses out of this office, regardless of whether the Firearms Act provides for their issue." What you propose is frightening - the police are no longer restricted to the law as written, whether we or they like that law or not, but absolutely free to ignore and enforce laws in a pick and choose fashion, each according to his own unique likes and dislikes, pet peeves, etc and so forth. You envision a system where the police would be free to side with firearms owners and refuse to enforce firearms legislation because it is a "bad thing". And some would do just that, happily in agreement with us. However, others would use that same freedom to interprete and enforce the law as their personal bias saw fit to have a blanket refusal policy of all PAL and other license applications, etc and so forth. And it would be legal for them to do so, because we have told them it is okay to do just that. It couldn't end just with firearms, of course - a strongly pro-life police officer could decide he wasn't going to investigate the shooting of a doctor who performed abortions, because in his world abortion is murder and the doctor got what he had coming. That's his interpretation of the law which you have given him the authority and freedom to make. The next guy decides that since the Old Testament says women are subordinate to men, he isn't going to lay charges against a man who beats hell out of his wife "disciplining her". That's his right because you give him the authority to interprete laws through his beliefs of what laws are bad things. In short, nobody in this country - not even the police - would have a clue what the law was, because it would be unique to every single police officer. You would just have to take your chances with whoever chance had you dealing with. And THAT's why police are sworn to uphold the law without fear or favour, and without personal bias. Allowing police to decide what is good law or bad law and then pick and choose how to enforce/not enforce law according to their personal biases is insanity. > No, this is not correct. The only persuasion that the police employ is of > the "do what we say and we will hurt you LESS" variety. That's crap - unless you're of the view that any time the police prevent you from doing whatever your little heart desires they're hurting you. If you buy into that, then I have a mental image of a rapist complaining he sustained some degree of injury because the police forced him to do what they say ie stop what he was doing and submit to arrest. Being told to quite causing a disturbance or you will be arrested is hardly causing anyone harm. The vast majority of arrests involve no force at all other than placing your hand on their arm. If, like some people, you choose to take a swing at the cop who has just arrested you... well, sorry, if you're that stupid you deserve a tune up. > It isn't a stereotype; it is a job requirement. I guess that's as good an explanation as Cukier or the media could come up with for when they stereotype handguns as "Saturday night specials", poachers as "hunters", etc. > This may shock you, but I don't think Cukier spends her time on the CFD > reading your messages. She may, but she seems to have a full time job and This may shock you, but all sorts of stuff get forwarded to her and other anti-firearms types - CAVEAT for one. Furthermore, a search of the Internet by anyone on any number of firearms law related words and phrases will quickly put you in the archives for this list reading posts, amongst assorted other references. > Don't worry, some day you will get it. Oh I do worry - I understand the power of language and how it affects peoples' perceptions all too well. So I get it just fine - and judging from some of theother responses here, so do a lot of other people. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 12:09:19 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Man faces charges after second raid PUBLICATION: The Chronicle-Herald DATE: 2002.02.08 SECTION: Metro PAGE: A3 - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- Man faces charges after second raid - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- A Timberlea-area man faces drug charges after the second raid on the same home in less than seven months. Tantallon RCMP searched an Elmgrove Avenue home at about 1:30 p.m. Thursday. Inside, they say, they found 108 grams of processed marijuana, 22 grams of hashish and drug paraphernalia. They did not release the estimated street value. Officers also seized two stolen motorcycles - a Yamaha 125 and a Kawasaki 125 - along with $526 in cash. Two people were inside the home at the time of the raid - a 19-year-old man and a woman. The man was arrested and charged with one count each of possession of marijuana for the purpose of trafficking, possession of hashish for the purpose of trafficking and possession of stolen property. He was held overnight at the Tantallon detachment and is expected to appear in Halifax provincial court for arraignment Friday. Last July 13, Tantallon RCMP seized five stolen , other stolen weapons and jewelry and a small quantity of drugs from the home. The same man was charged after that raid with possession of stolen propertyand drug and weapons offences. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 12:09:24 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Public pressure spurred police probe: PUBLICATION: The Ottawa Citizen DATE: 2002.02.08 EDITION: Final SECTION: News PAGE: A3 SOURCE: The Ottawa Citizen DATELINE: VANCOUVER ILLUSTRATION: Photo: Ric Ernst, The Vancouver Province / An unidentifiedwoman, left, who is a friend of a man the RCMP believes may be linked to the disappearance of 50 Vancouver prostitutes, is consoled by another woman outside the gates to the man's pig farm in Port Coquitlam yesterday.; Photo: Sherry Irving; Photo: Andrea Fay Borhaven; Photo: Dawn Crey; Photo: Jacqueline McDonell; Photo: Cindy Louise Beck; Photo: Brenda Wolfe; Photo: Cindy Feliks; Photo: Patricia Johnson; Photo: Sarah Jean deVries; Photo: Marnie Lee Frey; Photo: Catherine Louise Gonzalez; Photo: Angela Arsenault; Photo: Heather Chinnock; Photo: Wendy Crawford; Photo: Jennifer Lynn Furminger; Photo: Laura Mah; Photo: Leigh Miner; Photo: Georgina Papin; Photo: Francis Young; Photo: Serena Abbotsway; Photo: Angela Josebury; Photo: Dianne Rosemary Rock; Photo: Mona Lee Wilson; Photo: Rebecca Louisa Guno; Photo: Michelle Gurney; Photo: Inga Monique Hall; Photo: Helen Mae Hallmark; Photo: Elaine Allenbach; Photo: Janet Gail Henry; Photo: Angela Rebecca Jardine; Photo: Catherine Maureen Knight; Photo: Kerry Lynn Koski; Photo: Stephanie Marie Lane; Photo: Diana Melnick; Photo: Jacqueline Maria Murdock; Photo: Dorothy Anne Spence; Photo: Kathleen Dale Wattley; Photo: Olivia Gale Williams; Photo: Sheila Catherine Egan; Photo: Tanya Marlo Holyk NOTE: Missing Women Case. Ran with fact box "Some key dates in thecase of 50 women missing from Vancouver's east side", which has been appended to the story. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- Public pressure spurred police probe: Police ignored missing women because they were sex workers and drug users, victims' advocates say - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- VANCOUVER -- At last count, there were 50 women listed as missing from Vancouver's drug-infested downtown east side. But most of the women were involved in the sex trade. And they simply vanished -- there were no bodies to prove they had been killed. Some were reported as missing as long as 17 years ago. Police argued that these women could be anywhere. Yesterday, more than 30 investigators were combing a pig farm in suburban Port Coquitlam as police hinted at a break in the case. It took the anger of family members and a series of newspaper stories to convince police to take a second look at some of the women in the missing files. In October, a newspaper report in the Vancouver Sun revealed that the number of women who had died was much higher than first believed. In December, 18 names were added to the list. Police said they were working on narrowing down a suspect list of "hundreds." Only three weeks ago, the RCMP-Vancouver police missing-women task force added the names of five more women who have disappeared from the Downtown East side, bringing the total to 50. Families of the newly identified women said they were happy to finally have the disappearances publicized. But they also wondered why it took so long to get the names and photographs released. "It has been very frustrating," Patricia Young, whose daughter Frances disappeared in 1996, said last fall. "I don't know why it has taken so long." Ms. Young had tried aggressively for two years to get her missing daughter's case publicized, but had no luck. "My theory is that police don't have a mandate to search for missing people," said Ms. Young. Frances was a chef, but she had also been involved in the sex trade. "The police authorities in the province and the politicians who sit in Victoria, they have to come to our side," said Ernie Crey, whose sister Dawn Crey has been missing since December 2000. "I'm very concerned that I'll never learn the fate of my sister." While the number itself is shocking, critics say the initial police reaction to the growing list of missing women was equally appalling. "The point has often been made that if you had 50 women of any other profession missing, the reaction would have been entirely different," said John Lowman, a criminologist at Simon Fraser University. It may have started in June of 1983, when Rebecca Guno, a drug addict and prostitute, disappeared from the downtown east side, a grim collection of rooming houses, bars and needle-littered alleyways on the edge of Vancouver's Chinatown. Almost 20 hookers were known to have been killed in Vancouver in the last two decades, but there was nothing to suggest the missing women had met with foul play except intuition. While many lived a street life, others still retained family connections, cared for their children, even had active bank accounts. By 1991, relatives and social activists on the east side were theorizing a serial killer was at work. Police initially dismissed the idea, suggesting the women's transient lifestyle meant they could be anywhere. Vancouver police were at a loss. There were no bodies, no crime scenes, no witnesses, no forensic evidence. Nothing. But critics suspected the investigation was dragging because of who the women were. No one would come out and say violence and death is an occupational hazard for prostitutes, Mr. Lowman said, but the initial allocation of police resources raises questions. "You've got to say that there were some people in the senior VPD (Vancouver Police Department) administration who weren't making enough effort to do something about this," he said. Residents of the neighbourhood remain angry, said Erin Graham, a mental health advocate at the Downtown East side Women's Centre. They believe police never took the disappearances seriously because many of the women were aboriginal. "There's a lot of attitude flying around the centre, that's for sure," she said. "It's about poverty and sexism and racism. "We're also concerned that the women who are missing have been labelled by what they do as prostitutes and drug addicts rather than that they're women first. They're mothers, they're daughters, they're our friends." Relatives and activists began a campaign to push the investigation into higher gear. Valentine's Day, Feb. 14, was chosen to mark the women's disappearance annually with a vigil in the east side. While $100,000 rewards were quickly posted to help catch a home-invasion gang and someone who was robbing residents in their garages, Mr. Lowman criticized Vancouver Mayor Philip Owen for balking at offering a big reward to help solve the missing-women case. As the tally of missing women kept growing and in 1999 Mr. Owen recommended the police board post a $100,000 reward for information in the case. A year earlier, the Vancouver police set up a team of investigators to focus on the disappearances, reviewing files dating back as far as 1971. Mr. Lowman said it was spurred by the growing pressure from advocates for sex-trade workers and the relatives of the missing women. The media played a major role, too, he said. A series of articles in the Vancouver Sun and a story on the case by the popular TV show America's Most Wanted put police activities in the spotlight. "Everything changed after that," said Mr. Lowman. "It took embarrassment." Because many of the women were originally from other parts of British Columbia, the RCMP came aboard, forming a joint task force with Vancouver police last fall. The investigative team grew to about 30 officers. But the task remains daunting. Police say they have between 600 and 1,000 suspects and are interested in looking at other properties besides the farm in Port Coquitlam. Retired RCMP inspector Ron MacKay, Canada's first criminal profiler, was part of a team of police officers from Canada and the United States that met in Vancouver in 1991 to review 25 unsolved homicides of women -- most of whom were involved in the sex trade. There are a number of ways to dispose of a corpse, but profilers say serial killers are no different than anyone else. They're lazy. "They tend to go back to the same place they've been to before," Mr. MacKay said last year. "You're not going to bury a body in some place you've never been to. There's a reason why you put it there." In December, investigators travelled to Seattle to interview Gary Ridgway, charged with four of an estimated 49 of the Green River killings in Washington state. Those killings stopped in 1984. It was after the Seattle murders stopped that sex-trade workers began disappearing from Vancouver streets. However, Mr. Ridgway pleaded not guilty and prosecutors have not linked him to the Vancouver killings. Some Key Dates in the Case of 50 Women Missing From Vancouver's East Side: - - June 1983: Rebecca Guno, a drug addict and prostitute, disappears from Vancouver's east side. - - 1991: Relatives of growing list of missing women, along with advocates for sex-trade workers, establish annual Valentine's Day remembrance, press for tougher police investigation. - - September 1998: Vancouver police set up team to review files of up to 40 women missing as far back as 1971. One tracked down, deaths of two others from illness, overdose, confirmed but no trace of many others. - - April 1999: Vancouver police board posts $100,000 reward for information in missing-women case. - - September 2001: Vancouver police and RCMP form joint task force to replace Vancouver's stalled investigation. - - December 2001: Task force investigators travel to Seattle to interview Gary Ridgeway, charged in four of 49 Green River homicides in Washington state. - - January 2002: Task force adds five names to list, bringing total number of women missing to 50. - - Feb. 5: RCMP officers, accompanied by missing-women task force members, enter pig farming operation in suburban Port Coquitlam on warrant. - - Feb. 6: Task force officers use their own warrant to begin searching pig farm for clues in missing-women case. - - Feb. 7:Robert Pickton, one of two brothers who own pig farm, charged with weapons offences as search of property continued. ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V4 #529 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:acardin33@shaw.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) If you find this service valuable, please consider making a tax-deductible donation to the freenet we use: Saskatoon Free-Net Assoc., 1702 20th St. West, Saskatoon SK S7M OZ9 Phone: (306) 382-7070 modem lines: (306) 956-3700 and (306) 956-3701 Home page: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/ These e-mail digests are free to everyone, and are made possible by the efforts of countless volunteers. Permission is granted to copy and distribute this digest as long as it not altered in any way.