From: Cdn-Firearms Digest [owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca] Sent: Monday, 11 February, 2002 10:58 To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V4 #534 Cdn-Firearms Digest Monday, February 11 2002 Volume 04 : Number 534 In this issue: Year off hunting Letter I sent to the TLC My Letter to the Star-Phoenix Police Policy Fw: A Splendid Proposal Re; Patriating the Constitution Canada Safety Council The need for accountability King Jean the defender of medicare. Parks doing well [none] bc PIG FARM Column: Liberals' registry is targeting the least dangerous guns ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 22:09:03 -0600 From: Michael Ackermann Subject: Year off hunting Jim, My concern is that the antis may step in with alternate funding for the conservation effort and then there'll be no need to have hunters at all. However, other than this it sounds like a good plan. - -- M.J. Ackermann, MD (Mike) President, St. Mary's Shooters Association Box 3, RR 1, 4132 Sonora Rd. Sherbrooke, NS Canada B0J 3C0 902-522-2172 My email: mikeack@ns.sympatico.caSMSA URL: www3.ns.sympatico.ca/mikeack/SMSA_Web_Page.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 22:09:04 -0600 From: Michael Ackermann Subject: Letter I sent to the TLC To: The Producers of "Trauma: Life in the ER" Dear Sir/Ms, My family and I like to watch Trauma: Life in the ER. As rural GP and ERP I find the show quite entertaining. The other day we were watching an episode that featured a young ERP and Trauma physician who liked to go to a local indoor shooting range for pistol target practice after work. She stated that she found the practice would help her focus her thoughts and that it brought a sense of peace and tranquility to her otherwise hectic day. As a recreational shooter and a physician, I share her views and so her statements come as no surprise to me. What does surprise and please me immensely is to see the positive spin your show has given to the responsible and safe pastimes of the recreational shooting sports. Your well balanced and unbiased approach is most welcome and I'd like to thank you for it. - -- M.J. Ackermann, MD (Mike) President, St. Mary's Shooters Association Box 3, RR 1, 4132 Sonora Rd. Sherbrooke, NS Canada B0J 3C0 902-522-2172 My email: mikeack@ns.sympatico.caSMSA URL: www3.ns.sympatico.ca/mikeack/SMSA_Web_Page.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 22:36:43 -0600 From: Bruce Mills Subject: My Letter to the Star-Phoenix [Just sent, not yet printed] - -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: Langham case erodes faith in police Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 14:06:58 -0500 From: Bruce Mills To: Editor - Saskatoon Star-Phoenix Eileen Neufeld has hit the nail square on the head: who are you going to call (Langham case erodes faith in police, Feb 9)? What most people don't know, and the police won't tell you, is that they have no mandate to protect any given individual at any given time. Their mandate is to "keep the common peace", investigate crime, and arrest criminals. There are several US court cases that have determined that the police are not liable if they don't protect an individual, and I am sure there has been/is/will be similar cases here in Canada. So, who are you going to call? The only people guaranteed to be present at a crime are the criminal and the victim. The only person who can save you is yourself. Self defence is a sovereign and inherent right of every individual human being. We must have access to the most effect means to that defence, else we are all at the mercy of those stronger or meaner than we are. This is why, contrary to what Alan Rock has said, the use of firearms for self defence must not only be permitted, but it must be encouraged. Dr. John Lott's study, "More Guns, Less Crime" shows that confrontational crime decreases in states that enact "shall issue" concealed carry permit laws. I can only speculate as to why our police don't want us to defend ourselves, instead telling us to give the criminal what they want. Easy enough for them to say. They're busy "securing the area". Bruce Hamilton Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 07:24:51 -0600 From: "Mike Hargreaves" Subject: Police Policy So often we see posted problems with the Police not rushing into an area, or premises where a person or persons of criminal intent possibly are lurking/hiding. I am not and have never been a Police Officer, but the teaching of use of carried firearms, and tactics, and of course the law pertaining to this is my business, and has been for twenty plus years. If we look at the instruction that members of rescue organisations who are tasked to oversee safety, in for instance a chemical plant where the presence of many dangerous gases is a fact of life! and contained in the way they should be, pose no risk, this instruction has one clear message! if you, the rescuer are overcome by whatever gases caused the person lying on the floor in the plant to collapse! indeed if that was the cause at all, are overcome by the same fumes in a rescue attempt!! now there is two bodies to deal with, and no rescuer in sight! So, in the case of an emergency rescue, rule one! survive first! don the correct gear (gas masks) prior to entry, safety lines, non spark causing equipment!! and on and on. Now back to the Police! in the event of a call on the 911 line, and Police are dispatched to one of the most dangerous situations they have to deal with, a domestic disturbance! their first consideration when they arrive, is their safety, and it has to be, for exactly the same reason as the Chemical Plant rescue worker, if they go down, situation terrible just got worse! so on Monday morning when the newspapers site the inaction, or slow action of the Police response as the reason for this or that person dying, one must take in to consideration the facts are all now totally clear, we have a cause and it's effect in its entirety! 911 call. "I need help". Dispatched Police. Arrive. Wait. Dead victim. Easy, it has to be the fault of the Police!! But in some cases, when attending the scene, it is not clear who is the potential victim, who is the attacker! and how many guns, knives, or even people are present. In most cases of our involvement as citizens, in a street crime, as a rescuer, seems much more simple, at first!! lady on ground, screaming "Help" "help" big male person in denim jacket pulling at the strap of a large shoulder bag! You punch the "attacker" in the kidney, kick his knee out, from behind, it,s safer that way! (necessitating much reconstructive surgery for the undercover) and the poor lady "Victim" runs away! with her bag, that contains a .32 Pistol, and brick of cocaine!! oops! what is wrong with this picture! well it seemed simple! at first. An instance! once on the way home from a club I worked at, in Liverpool UK, (at 1am) I observed a large male! slapping the heck out of small "Lady" at bus stop, I pulled over, dropped large male onto pavement (sidewalk) and spent the next few minutes defending against high heel wielding Wife!! "leave my husband alone" she screamed! I did, and went home to my Wife, who was asleep! at least I was safe there! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 07:24:50 -0600 From: Med Subject: Fw: A Splendid Proposal Here is an bystander with a view. John Q. Public. KEEP YOUR POWDER DRY!!! MED The Canadian Army is short on equipment. The Canadian Government wants to register all firearms in Canada Those who own firearms don't want to register them as a matter of Principal (of some kind or another). I propose all people with firearms donate them to the Canadian Army. They can get a tax receipt, which means the Government pays them for the firearms. They get rid of firearms they don't want to register and don't have to pay the Registry Fees. This is a win-win solution and we can all be happy knowing that our wonderful Army will be able to go to Afghanistan somewhat better equipped then before. Works for me! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 07:24:49 -0600 From: "Hugh Mortimer" Subject: Re; Patriating the Constitution The David - Hunter email appeared in a CFD on January 24th. That was some time ago, but this took a few days. The word does not appear in my dictionary either, so I asked a school teacher (my former wife, as it happens) because she had some interest in history & English studies. Anyway, she sent me the following: "He should have checked the Gage Canadian Intermediate Dictionary, commonly found in schools, where the word 'patriate' is defined as bring (government, decision-making powers, etc.) under the direct control of the people of a given region, nation, etc: The British parliament voted in 1982 to patriate the Canadian Constitution. v.patriated, patriating. - patriation,n. Whether this word was in the Gage Dictionary before 1982, I don't know. It is not in spell checker." Interesting, isn't it? Hugh "Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 16:19:31 -0600 From: "David-Hunter:Thomson" Subject: Fw: Of course we Canadians know EXACTLY what we are doing... Like when we 'PATRIATED' our Constitution.. Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca For the sake of brevity, I cut out the original header. If you are Canadian, this is worth a read... Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 9:30 AM Subject: Of course we Canadians knew EXACTLY what we are doing... Like when we'PATRIATED' our Constitution.. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 22:18:58 -0600 From: "Ron McCutcheon" Subject: Canada Safety Council Metro Today Feb. 8, 2002 DON'T BLAME CELLS FOR CRASHES: SAFETY COUNCIL Toronto Critics of cellphone use in vehicles are dialing a wrong number when they blame wireless devices for making Canada's roadways more dangerous says one of the country's top safety groups.................................. "Show us the evidence." council president Emile Therien said after his group issued a statement urging restraint in any new push to ban cellphone use behind the wheel. ======================================== ==================== However, Mr. Therien strongly supports gun control as a way to reduce firearms accidents. Show us the evidence Mr.Therien! Ron McCutcheon P. Eng ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 22:18:59 -0600 From: Lee Jasper Subject: The need for accountability There has been much talk about the CA leadership contest but Ontario gun owners are very aware that the provincial PC leadership contest is equally important. Are Ontario gun owners holding the candidates accountable? All it need cost you is $10 and a few minutes of your time. The cut-off date for membership is *Feb. 23rd*; the leadership vote will be held on March 23rd. There are several key issues in Ontario: 1) The obstacle facing some 306,143 POL holders in Ont. (Breitkreuz ATIA request) and 115,079 FAC holders (Sol Gen Report). That's up to 421,000 law abiding, tax paying citizens of Ontario jumping through needless bureaucratic hoops. As it currently stands under the FA Regs., anyone who has continuously owned a firearm since Jan 1/79 is eligible for a FREE alternate certification exemption test via the Ontario CFO. Nonsense, provide a valid Prior Learning Assessment for experienced gun owners, or simply grandfather them. Most of these gun owners have already passed the Hunter Ed program to qualify for a hunting licence. They are problem-free or they would not be eligible to hold a FAC/POL and possess firearms. Readers are aware that both MB and QC grandfathered their Hunter Ed grads into PALs. *** The RFC needs to know which candidate will guarantee that after being elected leader, one of her/his first acts will be to instruct the Ontario CFO to fully comply with FA s. 7(4)(a) and grandfather all holders of Outdoor Cards, POLs, FACs, etc. into full PALs. That's what Rock promised. Forget the bogus exemption exam; follow the intent of the law. Grandfather experienced owners into PALs. *** 2) Ontario needs to withdraw it's support for the federal gun registry. Premier Harris and former Sol Gen Runciman both decreed via public statements, and Runciman in testimony before the Senate Standing Committee on Constitutional and Legal Affairs, that 'no Ontario resources' would be expended on the federal Registry. We know that substantial back-sliding has occurred with respect to this old promise because following Breitkreuz and Jasper FIPPA requests it was revealed that the CFO's operation had swelled to $10 mil and 200 personnel. *** We want the Ontario government to commit to opting out and withdrawing support for the registry; that's what we were promised. *** 3) The last item needing our lobby is the unprecedented threatened closing of a number of shooting clubs across Ontario. This too, is solely a provincial action. *** A moratorium is needed on these orders to re-build ranges until adequate funding sources are identified. *** Ernie Eves (former Min. of Finance and Deputy Premier, currently V-P of an investment bank) leads the PC pack. Ernie arrived on scene via Windsor and Parry Sound. Apparently, he has the support of the majority of the PC caucus. He has Bob Runciman, MPP Leeds-Grenville, Min. of Economic Development and Trade on his team. As Sol Gen, Runciman displayed rare common sense regarding firearm's issues. Chris Stockwell would get my vote as The True Man of the People. Ontario gun owners' biggest and unconditionally persistent caucus booster, steadfast MPP Bill Murdoch, Grey-Owen Sound is supporting Stockwell. He has promised to reinstate the spring bear hunt. We need to secure the last stage of support for Ontario gun owners. This can only happen if gun owners attend candidate meetings and lobby Clements, Eves, Flaherty, Stockwell and Witmer. Make these final promises - the lever necessary to get your vote. This is one of the last chances to have an impact on the last phase of the implementation of the FA. December 2002/January 2003 is less than 11 months away and in less than two months we will have new leaders of the CA and Ontario PCs. Reports indicate about 100,000 Party members will vote for the leadership . . . We have over 400,000 firearm owners with POL to PAL and FAC to PAL licencing issues. It's Party Time . . . (Credit for source material acknowledged) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 22:18:58 -0600 From: John Hansen Subject: King Jean the defender of medicare. Heard on Warren this afternoon. Our King Jean the defender of medicare you better have a good excuse for lying to Parliament and Canadians. When King Hussin died our Prime Minister was not in British Columbia as he was telling us....... He was in Minnesota on Taxpayers expense flown down there courtesy of the Canadian Airforce to take advantage of that bad American PRIVATE MEDICARE. John Hansen ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 22:18:59 -0600 From: Bruce Mills Subject: Parks doing well http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/printarticle/gam/20020209/SATLETS-11 Parks doing well Globe and Mail Letters to the Editor By ALAN LATOURELLE Saturday, February 9, 2002 ­ Print Edition, Page A18 Hull, Que. -- Re Fed-Up Wardens Quit Troubled National Parks (Jan. 28): Contrary to the assertion in the article, the national parks of Canada are not "being looted with impunity." The number of poaching incidents in national parks has not increased compared with previous years and, contrary to a claim by the Public Service Alliance of Canada, the parks are being protected. The RCMP continues to enforce the Canada National Parks Act, the Criminal Code and other federal statutes while Parks Canada staff are still present in the back country and have been directed to report incidents to the RCMP for action. However, the union has decided to publicize every actual or hypothetical incident in order to achieve its objective: to have wardens equipped with side arms. Parks Canada's position is that side arms are not warranted. The facts speak for themselves. The vast majority of law-enforcement actions are routine and deal mainly with park visitors. For example, over a six-year period, there were more than 106 million person-visits -- the equivalent of three times the population of Canada -- to national parks and national historic sites and only once did a law-enforcement incident come to the point where the use of a collapsible baton was required. As for the perceived exodus of park wardens, only eight wardens out of a workforce of 425 have left Parks Canada over the past year. A turnover of less than 2 per cent hardly qualifies as an unusual situation. chief administrative officer, Parks Canada, Copyright © 2002 Bell Globemedia Interactive Inc. All Rights Reserved. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 21:37:16 -0700 From: Gordon Hitchen Subject: [none] From: Michel Subject: POL Hi all, Just to let you know that they (CFC) are improving on their speed but not on accuracy. I sent my application to renew my FAC on Jan 25, 2002 because it was expiring in August of 2002. To my amazement, I received the my new POL on Tuesday Feb. 6, 2002. That's right, only a week and a half after I sent it and that is in Quebec. Now, that is service you probably think. BUT, it is riddled with mistakes and I urge all of you to take a second look at your POLs. Compare the two columns, one says acquisition and the other says possession. Well, I am able to buy a crossbow but I am not able to have one in possession. Also, I am one of the lucky ones to be grand fathered under 12-4, 12-5 and possibly 12-3. They are not included under the possession or acquisition column. So, I urge all of you to triple check your POLs license to make sure there are no mistakes. I will be writing a nice letter to the Surete du Quebec (local registrar) and Miramichi with copy to NFA and my MLA. Please do the same so that more people are aware of how well the system is working. In the meantime, I received my ATT with a form to have a valid ATT for the firearms wich are not allowed to possess. Talk about people that are mixed up.I will keep you all informed of this new saga as developments arise. Michel NFA member #1942 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 22:23:48 -0600 From: "rossj." Subject: bc PIG FARM If there were 50 women murdered and they were chopped up and fed to the pigs, they eat everything, bones included. After 10 years, there may be nothing to find. Moderator: UGH! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 10:58:07 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Column: Liberals' registry is targeting the least dangerous guns in the country Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca PUBLICATION: Edmonton Journal DATE: 2002.02.10 EDITION: Final SECTION: Opinion PAGE: A14 COLUMN: Lorne Gunter BYLINE: Lorne Gunter SOURCE: The Edmonton Journal - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- Dead is dead, and safe is safe: Liberals' registry is targeting the least dangerous guns in the country - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- You'd never know it from reading my stuff, but I was once a member of the University of Alberta's writing skills committee. Among our tasks was reviewing freshman essays. One I'll never forget advocated strict gun control, and contained the memorable non sequitur "Gun control is needed more in the 20th Century than in previous centuries, because being killed with a bullet is more fatal than being killed by a sword." Hey, dead is dead. Medically, one kind of "killed" is no "more fatal" than the others. But I've often wondered if that freshman graduated and went on to a stellar career designing Canada's firearms regulations. Certainly the illogical obsession with the evils of guns was already present some 20 years ago. Last Sunday I wrote how the Liberals' gun control will be useless at preventing robberies. Firearms are only the third most common weapon used in robberies, well back of both fists and knives, and tied with clubs and blunt instruments. Moreover, nearly 90 per cent of the firearms used in robberies are already illegal or should have been registered even before the new firearms law. Handguns, for instance, account for 82 per cent of firearms robberies, even though handguns have been subject to compulsory registration since the Depression. Robbers now smuggle them instead. This week, even more firearms-robbery statistics came available, thanks to the determined digging of Saskatchewan Alliance MP Garry and researchers at the Library of Parliament. As with last week's figures, this week's lead to pretty much the same conclusion: Legal guns aren't the biggest problem in crime. Therefore, all the gun control in the world isn't going to have much impact on crime. In 2000, 800 victims of robbery suffered major injuries from their attackers. Only nine per cent of those (about 70 people) suffered major injuries from firearms, and nearly all of those injuries were inflicted with handguns, which, as I pointed out before, are already supposed to be registered. Fists -- technically "physical force" -- accounted for the largest percentage of major injuries (31 per cent), clubs and blunt instruments 18 per cent and knives 18 per cent. And just as dead is dead, a major injury is a major injury. StatsCan makes no distinction between one caused by a gun and one inflicted by a boot or switchblade. So it's no use to counter that a gunshot wound is more serious than a stab wound; there is an empirical definition of "major," and only wounds that exceed that threshold count, regardless of which kind of weapon inflicted them. So fists and feet and clubs and knives all injure more Canadians seriously each year than guns. But are guns still more dangerous? Guns are used in fewer robberies, so while their percentage of inflicted-injuries is smaller, perhaps in the robberies in which they are used, they are used more often to wound. Not so. To begin with, the chance of receiving any injury -- major, minor or indeterminate --if your assailant robs you with rifle or shotgun is so small StatsCan doesn't even register it. Of course, it's rifles and shotguns the Liberals are currently trying madly to register. Futile, futile, futile. If a robber uses a sawed-off rifle or shotgun (already an entirely illegal class of gun), you stand a one-in-four chance of suffering an indeterminate injury, but again a statistically insignificant chance of a major or minor one. If a handgun is used, the victim has a one-in-three chance of being injured. But with a knife, the ratio is one in two. With a club or a fist, the chances are high --four in five -- you'll end up hurt in some way. The chance of receiving a major injury in a robbery is just about the same no matter what weapon (except one) is used. A knife gives a one-in-11 chance, a handgun a one-in-12 chance and physical force about one in 15. The exception is a club, bat or other blunt instrument. If you are attacked by a club-wielding robber, you're more likely to get hurt than not. You run a one-in-four chance of suffering a major injury, too. Put another way, if you're robbed by a guy with a club, there's a 25-per-cent chance he's going to hurt you badly. If he has a knife there's a nine-per-cent chance; a handgun, an eight-per-cent chance and his fist, a five-per-cent chance. If he has a hunting gun there is virtually no chance you'll be hurt badly, or at all. But instead of cleaning our streets of baseball bats, hidden knives and smuggled handguns (or better yet, of the criminals who use them), the Liberals are pouring $12 million a month, or more, into their registry of the least dangerous guns in the country. And you won't be one jot safer forit. ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V4 #534 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:acardin33@shaw.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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