From: Cdn-Firearms Digest [owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca] Sent: Tuesday, 12 February, 2002 10:37 To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V4 #538 Cdn-Firearms Digest Tuesday, February 12 2002 Volume 04 : Number 538 In this issue: Re: bc PIG FARM POL ?? PAL ?? #534 Grit MP joins helicopter backlash Visit to famed England gunmaker was a blast Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V4 #534 [none] Re: cellphone Re: bc PIG FARM ATI Request Template Re: cellphone Denial of Service - Attacks against grc.com List Server trashing posts Re: Grit MP joins helicopter backlash Formal inquiry into author Michael Bellesiles Pair pulls off armed robbery of corner store Column: 'PET SHOOTS' TARGETED; Sport fishery 'headed to collapse': ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 17:04:52 -0600 From: augustin Subject: Re: bc PIG FARM Let's remember that there is no evidence that this list of 50 women were murdered or that there was any wrong doing. There is no evidence that the farm owners were involved in anything illegal involving these women. Its amazing the level of faith people around here (BC) have in suspicion. Augustin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 17:22:14 -0600 From: Gary Baker Subject: POL ?? PAL ?? #534 You mentioned in your post ." To my amazement, I received the my new POL on Tuesday Feb. 6, 2002" Did you receive a POL as I thought the last POL had to be issued prior to 31 Dec 2001? "Also, I am one of the lucky ones to be grand fathered under 12-4, 12-5 and possibly 12-3. They are not included under the possession or acquisition column." If you in fact you have a POL you can no longer acquire any NEW firearms. What you should have is a PAL !! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 17:22:15 -0600 From: Bruce Mills Subject: Grit MP joins helicopter backlash At least one Liberal seems to be able to admit that they made a mistake... http://www.nationalpost.com/home/story.html?f=/stories/20020211/17394.html February 11, 2002 Grit MP joins helicopter backlash Process too 'slow': Volpe urges buying 'Cadillac' model Chrétien rejected Mike Blanchfield Ottawa Citizen OTTAWA - A Liberal backbencher has broken ranks with the government and criticized the eight-year delay in replacing Canada's ageing fleet of Sea King helicopters, saying the government should buy the same ''Cadillac'' helicopter Jean ChrŽtien rejected in 1993. ''I think the process is going unnecessarily slow,'' Toronto-area MP Joe Volpe said in an interview. ''It's important to note we've got a company that's delivered and is capable of delivering a quality product. A product that the military appreciates, search and rescue appreciates, Canadians appreciate. There's no reason why we should spend any time looking elsewhere.'' Mr. Volpe was referring to the the EH-101 Cormorant helicopter, which the Conservative government of Brian Mulroney had agreed to buy to replace the Navy's fleet of 1960s-era, ship-borne Sea Kings and the fleet of search-and-rescue Labrador helicopters. The Prime Minister labelled the Cormorant a ''Cadillac'' and a waste of taxpayers' money during the 1993 federal election campaign, promising to cancel the $5.8-billion deal if elected. Mr. ChrŽtien followed through and tore up the EH-101 contract, his first act as prime minister, a decision that resulted in hundreds of millions of dollars in penalties. Since then, opposition politicians, senators, and aerospace industry players have accused the ChrŽtien Liberals of playing politics with the lives of navy aircrews they say are forced to fly an aircraft well past its expiry date and prone to mechanical failures. They accuse the Liberals of trying to rig the bidding process to ensure that Team Cormorant, an English-Italian consortium, does not win the Sea King replacement contract. If Cormorant won, it would call into question exactly what Mr. ChrŽtien had achieved by cancelling the deal in the first place. Though some MPs have grumbled privately about the Sea King delay, Mr. Volpe is the first member of the Liberal caucus to publicly break ranks over the issue. Mr. Volpe, who has represented Toronto's Eglinton-Lawrence riding since 1988, stopped short of accusing his government of political meddling. ''I can only speculate, so I won't. But I just think it's going too slow,'' he said. The government announced in August, 2000, that it intended to buy 28 new navy helicopters for $2.9-billion, and that it would split the contract between two successful candidates -- one to supply the airframe, and one the high-tech mission systems. What the government did not tell the public was that its own advisors estimated that splitting the helicopter contract would add an extra $400-million to the overall cost. Along with Cormorant, two other international helicopter consortiums are the top contenders for the contract: U.S.-based Sikorsky, the builder of the original Sea King, and the French-German Eurocopter. At one time or another, all three companies have complained that the Liberals' tendering process is flawed and discriminates against them. Another 10 companies are vying for the on-board high-tech systems portion of the contract. The government has publicly defended splitting the contract, saying it will give more companies, including Canadian high-tech firms, a chance to take part in the bidding. In 1998, the Liberals awarded the search-and-rescue component of the contract to Team Cormorant, which delivered the first of its EH-101 search and rescue helicopters last fall. The government is already a year behind schedule in calling for a request for proposals for the Sea King replacement. Critics say Mr. ChrŽtien is loath to see Cormorant sweep the helicopter competition by winning the Sea King portion of the contract. Mr. Volpe said the split procurement is causing unnecessary delays. He dismissed the government's argument that widening the field of competitors is a good strategy. He also said the government should take into account the long-term savings that could result in having the same helicopters replace both the Sea Kings and the Labradors. ''Unless we have manufacturing facilities in this country, there's no reason for us to think in terms of trying to spread the wealth to other places,'' said Mr. Volpe. None of the three of the main helicopter builders has plans to build its Sea King replacement in Canada. Mr. Volpe suggested the Cormorant is probably the best helicopter available for the Navy. ''That company made a commitment and did deliver on the commitment. Let's go to the bid process,'' he said. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 17:22:19 -0600 From: "Karl Schrader" Subject: Visit to famed England gunmaker was a blast A businessman traveling in England and visiting Holland & Holland describes exactly how I felt when I visited Ferlach in Austria some time ago. And having acquired some of those fabulous pieces of art there with my hard earned Can.$, I am now faced with the prospect of surrendering them to our "elected" Government for destruction. Maybe not in my lifetime but certainly after my demise. Maybe, I was just stupid to make this investment, trusting my government would not deprive me of private property without just compensation. Something along the lines of investing in Enron. I am just wondering how H.&H. is faring given all these new gun-laws in England. There must be different conditions for the rich and famous, they can be trusted with those expensive "works of art", which by the way could be used to shoot at a partridge once in a while. Naw, that could not be! Englishmen (and- women) are so steeped in tradition that their "elected" government would not dare to snatch these "weapons" out of their hands without paying for them ? This can only happen in the colonies, like Canada, which is not steeped in tradition at all and the local government is only constituted by commoners who could only dream of being rich and famous. In other words, by poor slobs who are pushing a temporarily politically correct agenda. According to that agenda, we here in Canada are very misguided to appreciate a hunting firearm as a "work of art" since this sort of thing can shoot, it has to be temporarily registered until confiscation. Wow, what a mistake I made !! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 17:28:52 -0600 From: B Farion Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V4 #534 Med@mywaymed@shaw.ca said > I propose all people with firearms donate them to the Canadian Army. They > can get a tax receipt, which means the Government pays them for the > firearms. They get rid of firearms they don't want to register and don't > have to pay the Registry Fees. > Hi; You mean that I should give them my 303 LeeEnfield Jungle Carbine, complete with bayonet that they gave away 30 years ago! Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca What an idea! But I do not think that they would be happy with it! After all 1 shot might go rite thru 3 Somallis. Cheers Bill (;-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 20:19:58 -0700 From: Gordon Hitchen Subject: [none] From: Michel Subject: My error As was pointed out to my in a private response, it is a PAL that I received not a POL as i reported. Sorry for the error. The rest of my post is correct. Michel NFA #1942 Moderator: You are too late to claim the first mistake on this List! We are now looking for the person who will make the last mistake. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 21:13:24 -0600 From: B Farion Subject: Re: cellphone > Moderator: I don't believe cellphone use while driving is banned in the > States. I do believe the City of New York is considering it though. Hi; At least one state did ban use while driving last summer. I think it was Masetchsis (sp?) but I might be wrong. Anyway, the phone logs of several calls made when an accident took place were produced. Cheers Bill (;-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 21:13:23 -0600 From: "DJ MacIntyre" Subject: Re: bc PIG FARM From: Bill McGarry Subject: Re: bc PIG FARM >I first learned of the pigs amazing capacity to completely consume > human >remains while reading historical accounts of post battle clean > up during >the war of 1812... "Unintended Consequences" weaves the > concept into a >contemporary scenario which illustrates just how > thoroughly effective our >swine friends are. To bad the "pork > barreling" process can't be reversed >to accomplish similar results! > On the other hand given the current >popularity of politicians, I > foresee serious potential in the pig farming >industry... I ncidentally, a Quebec company is about to open a HUGE factory pig farm in the "suburbs" of the new city of Ottawa... Conspiracy? Hmm... ;-) DJ Woyld it be too big a stretch to believe 24 Sussex Drive is in the Suburbs of Ottawa? _________________________________________________________________ Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 21:13:23 -0600 From: Edward Hudson Subject: ATI Request Template Dear Mr di Armani, Re: ATI Request Template Thank you for the information regarding the Access To Information which you sent. That was a very complete packet. I commend you for a job well done. My wife used this form today to request her personal information. When my wife applied for a POL the CFC clerk billed her VISA card for ten dollars twice - once for a license and once to register "something". Should be interesting to see what was registered. Sincerely, Eduardo Subject: ATI Request Template From: Christopher di Armani Hello Edward, Please find attached an Adobe PDF file containing a cover letter and an Access To Information request template. The template covers all three classes of firearms, non-restricted, restricted and prohibited.. You may be surprised, or you may not, but at least you will know what they believe you currently own. All it will cost is the price of an envelope and a stamp. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 01:31:11 -0600 From: B Farion Subject: Re: cellphone Moderator: I don't believe cellphone use while driving is banned in the States. I do believe the City of New York is considering it though. Hi; At least one state did ban use while driving last summer. I think it was Masetchsis (sp?) but I might be wrong. Anyway, the phone logs of several calls made when an accident took place were produced. Cheers Bill (;-) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 01:31:12 -0600 From: "Richard A. Fritze" Subject: Denial of Service - Attacks against grc.com What Happened? On the evening of May 4th, 2001, GRC.COM suddenly dropped off the Internet: snip xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Richard A. Fritze (780) 449-3808 - Phone (780) 464-6707 - Fax www.fritze.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 01:31:11 -0600 From: Rick Lowe Subject: List Server trashing posts f Gordon said: >> Mr. Moderator: why does the Digest keep trashing the format of my posts??? > The list owner has been advised of the problem Rick. Meanwhile I am trying > my best to fix them here after they arrive minus spacing. I truly hate to > see your well thought out and presented postings thrashed in that way, > Sir. Unfortunately it happens with a lot of posts and I am trying to fix > them as much as time permits. Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Just to clarify, I'm mildly frustrated but not complaining. I appreciate all the volunteer work that goes into maintaining this list, and so the warts that go with the list these days fall into the "sh*t happens" category. The list doesn't cost us anything other than what we choose to donate, and so I'm not complaining, just wondering if there's some way I can engineer a workaround for this problem until the list server gets debugged... Would it make life easier for you if I sent them to you directly? Or would that result in you having to handle them twice? Moderator: I will reply privately Rick. Perhaps a note to skeet@shaw.ca might help if you outline your problem to the Owner in person. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 01:33:44 -0600 From: Don Webb Subject: Re: Grit MP joins helicopter backlash - --- Bruce Mills wrote: > At least one Liberal seems to be able to admit that > they made a > mistake... > > http://www.nationalpost.com/home/story.html?f=/stories/20020211/17394.html > February > 11, 2002 > The bustard Rock is doing a pretty good job of splitting the liberals. The poor guy is pissed off because Martin has control of the party for the next leadership race. Rock is going the way of the Tobinator. Good riddance......but on the other hand hang in there Rockhead.....your doing a good job there bustard.....keep up the good work fracturing the liberal dictatorship! Keep using the media to wash your dirt in public. We all like hearing about the dissent in the party, I love it! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 10:32:12 -0600 From: "Richard A. Fritze" Subject: Formal inquiry into author Michael Bellesiles February 8, 2002 Probe aims at claim of gun-use author From combined dispatches Atlanta's Emory University has started a formal inquiry into accusations of research misconduct by history professor Michael Bellesiles, author of a prize-winning book that claimed gun ownership was rare in early America. The university has initiated a process for "addressing allegations of misconduct in research," Robert Paul, dean of Emory College, the school's undergraduate division, said in a statement. snip full story at http://www.washtimes.com/national/20020208-90052858.htm xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Richard A. Fritze (780) 449-3808 - Phone (780) 464-6707 - Fax www.fritze.com Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 10:32:14 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Pair pulls off armed robbery of corner store PUBLICATION: The Chronicle-Herald DATE: 2002.02.12 SECTION: Metro PAGE: A5 - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- Pair pulls off armed robbery of corner store - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- Halifax Regional Police are looking for two men who robbed a Dartmouth corner store Monday night. The men, one armed with a , entered Mary's Grocery and Video at 187 Windmill Rd. just before 9:30 p.m. The pair demanded cash and also made off with a cordless phone. They escaped on foot. The robbers were wearing dark clothing and had bandanas over their faces. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 10:32:14 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Column: 'PET SHOOTS' TARGETED; PUBLICATION: The Calgary Sun DATE: 2002.02.12 SECTION: Editorial/opinion PAGE: 15 COLUMN: The legislature SOURCE: Sun Media BYLINE: Neil Waugh - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- 'PET SHOOTS' TARGETED; CANNED HUNTS CALLED 'SLAUGHTER' PLEASE AND THANKS - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- Somewhere, this morning, Premier Ralph Klein is out in the world selling something he calls the Alberta Advantage. It a strong and compelling message about a green and mellow land called Alberta, where the creeks brim with trout, taxes are always low, workers are well educated and happy and there's an effective, plugged-in government taking care of business. Meanwhile back in the real Alberta, things aren't quite the way the premier is painting them. And a determined crew of myopic MLAs are eager to maintain the media myth that Albertans are as brutal and backward as Robert Kennedy Jr. portrayed us. Klein's audiences haven't heard about something called Cervid Harvesting Preserves yet. But Alberta Liberal environment critic Debby Carlson has. Yesterday, she succinctly summed up what these killing pens for farm-raised elk, deer and likely whatever else will look like once the word gets out. "It sends a very bad message," said Carlson, who was already fuming after being removed by legislature security from a government MLA committee meeting, where secret deliberations between the PCs and elk and deer lobby groups were taking place. "It makes us look very redneck and living in another century." These dubious operations have already been branded as "pet shoots" or "canned hunts" by legitimate outdoors organizations that are bitterly opposed to them. This grisly concept involves pen-raised, domestic elk and deer being turned out into an area with an escape-proof fence. The animals are then shot for a fee -- in the neighbourhood of $4,000. This certainly beats the $500 to $600 an elk goes for on the venison market. "Is it humane for animals to be chased by a guy with a into a fence?" Carlson questioned, clearly anticipating the media image that will come out. "It's a slaughter, it's not a hunt," added Alberta Fish and Game Association president Rod Dyck, who didn't even make it as far as Debbie and was left cooling his heels in the legislature porch because of the Klein government's offensive new anti-people security rules. "They're going to see wildlife as something to be kept behind a high fence and as a commodity that is bought, sold and shot," Dyck said. "I don't think it's a good image." And he pointed out a poll conducted by his organization found 78% of Albertans opposed to these bizarre operations. Dyck cast doubt on the results of the so-called public hearings that the elk and deer lobby conducted last year after the same standing policy committee encouraged them to go ahead. "They called them public hearings but the majority of the people at them were game farmers," Dyck said. "We find this is morally unethical, these animals have no chance for escape and there is no fair chase element there." This was confirmed by elk and deer task force spokesman Norm Moore. "These are animals that are going to come from production farms," said the brother of the PCs' provincial election campaign chair and former cabinet minister Marv Moore. "They go there on a one-way ticket. They're going there to be harvested." But as a result of the lobbying, the premier might also be going to see ethics commissioners Bob Clark after revealing recently he bought six bison from Marv Moore. Changing legislation to allow pet shoots -- it's not clear if bison will be included -- could significantly enhance the value of Klein's animals. "That's a good question and I think it should be investigated," Carlson said. "That would be the route to go, ask the ethics commissioner to investigate." Yet MLAs on the committee following the meeting were beaming that pet shoots "look like a go." Is Ralph Klein starting to lose his grip? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 10:36:31 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Sport fishery 'headed to collapse': PUBLICATION: Vancouver Sun DATE: 2002.02.12 EDITION: Final SECTION: News PAGE: A1 / Front BYLINE: Scott Simpson SOURCE: Vancouver Sun - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- Sport fishery 'headed to collapse': Study has billion-dollar implications for B.C's share of industry - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- Overfishing by recreational anglers may be pushing Canada's $7-billion sport fishery toward collapse, an international team of researchers warns in a respected fisheries journal. The collapse encompasses nearly all species of sport fish in Canada including most B.C. trout and salmon, according to the article in a journal of the American Fisheries Society. The report says although the problem began in the 1960s, "these declines have gone largely unnoticed by fisheries scientists, managers, and the public." Even the ubiquitous rainbow trout that sustain about half of British Columbia's $1-billion share of the national sport fishery are in trouble. On average, catch rates fell six-fold over the last 40 years at 800 rainbow trout lakes in south-central British Columbia. The authors warn that unless the collapse is recognized and reflected in tougher fishing regulations, anglers will catch fewer fish, smaller fish and many populations of native fish will become extinct. B.C. fisheries biologist Eric Parkinson, one of the co-authors, said easier access to fishing spots and improved fishing equipment are some of the culprits that could push catch rates even lower unless new regulations are introduced. He says in some cases, the only way to maintain a quality fishing experience may be to limit the number of anglers on a given lake -- much as the provincial government limits the number of applicants who are given tickets to hunt for some animal species. Parkinson says most lakes within a six-hour drive of Greater Vancouver are in decline and self-sustaining populations of trout have vanished from lakes closest to the urban centre. There are numerous reasons for the decline including population growth. But Parkinson also singled out the role played by the Coquihalla Highway in providing quick, easy access to the Kamloops-Merritt hub of the province's world-famed lake district. Even at a comparatively remote place such as Puntzi Lake, about midway between Williams Lake and Bella Coola along Highway 20, an angler would need to fish for four hours to catch one fish compared to 12 minutes in 1960. The same problem is playing out in other provinces as well -- at Wolfe Lake, Alberta, it would take 50 hours to catch a single walleye compared to four hours in the early 1980s. Catch and release regulations have been used with some success in B.C. for about 20 years, but Parkinson said that won't solve the problem of crowding. Some anglers purchase high-quality fishing opportunities, such as patrons of Corbett Lake Lodge near Merritt who last year paid between $104 and $163 a day for lodging, meals and access to a private lake that offers unparalleled fly fishing for large rainbow trout. A basic B.C. fishing license granting access to thousands of public lakes and streams is $30 a year -- about half the cost of a single round of golf in Greater Vancouver. "Virtually all the moose in B.C. is by limited entry. We can't set a season for moose, have it wide open and expect there to be a reasonable number of moose around," Parkinson said. "In a sense, it's similar for fisheries. "You can make them catch and release, but you could also limit the effort and have very high quality fishing -- catch rates of 10 fish a day. I think about it this way. There are some guys out there with lots of time but not a lot of money, a retired guy who can fish 50 days a year. But if you've got a bunch of people who work five days a week and they get out three days a year, they'd much rather have a limited-effort situation where they get some good quality fishing when they get out there." ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V4 #538 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:acardin33@shaw.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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