From: Cdn-Firearms Digest [owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca] Sent: Friday, 15 February, 2002 10:19 To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V4 #547 Cdn-Firearms Digest Friday, February 15 2002 Volume 04 : Number 547 In this issue: Re: PEN sHOOTING CFO refuses to obey Court direction Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V4 #544 More on New Blood in the RFC Lock & Load Firearms Dealers Re: New blood Ammunition Purchasing Requirements Follow-up Re: CFO refuses to obey Court direction Lab fudges test results Lock & Load Raid. Lock & Load Firearms Dealers Police Seize Guns your 25 cents worth? check this out Police Raid. gun show Problems with CFO of Ontario ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 20:15:22 -0600 From: Jim Powlesland Subject: Re: PEN sHOOTING On Thu, 14 Feb 2002, Robert Schultz wrote: > I know buffalo farmers that sell the heads for taxidermy purposes. > Also people that have the beef hides tanned. However, they don't claim to have acquired them by "hunting". > These are not the issues. Correct. The bigger issues are disease transmission and genetic pollution from game ranches to the adjacent wild populations. > Is it fair chase if the animal is in a squeeze chamber prior to > killing it? Is does the animal have a reasonable chance to elude the > shooter? Put it this way. Bowhunters have a success rate of about 10 percent. Pen shooters have a success rate of 100 percent. It doesn't matter whether the pen is large or small, there is vegetation or not, it is always 100 percent. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 20:14:44 -0600 From: "Jeff Gurnsey" Subject: CFO refuses to obey Court direction > From: Lee Jasper > Subject: CFO refuses to obey Court direction > > The CFO had refused to issue a transfer of firearm registration, > claiming that membership in a gun club was a necessary > pre-condition. Superior Court Justice Jenkins disagreed with the > CFO and agreed with the appellant and directed that the CFO > issue a transfer of registration and an ATT. > I am advised that the CFO has refused to obey the direction of > the court and refuses to return phone calls to the appellant's > MLA re the matter. Well now, isn't this an interesting slant on events; the CFO refusing a court order. What is the phone number for the Judge; or even email address? I might be really mistaken, but I think judges frown really, really, really heavily on this sort of behaviour. Refusing a Court Order from a Provincial Judge seems to be a big line that has been drawn in the sand that might equal big dollar civil monies. I think it is high time to call the big dog Judge and see who the real sheriff is in town. Jeff Gurnsey Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 20:20:16 -0600 From: Michael Ackermann Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V4 #544 Hey, guys. December 31 has come and gone. Let's get or demands in that the CGC be shut down for failure to provide proper financial documentation as we discussed last year. - -- M.J. Ackermann, MD (Mike) President, St. Mary's Shooters Association Box 3, RR 1, 4132 Sonora Rd. Sherbrooke, NS Canada B0J 3C0 902-522-2172 My email: mikeack@ns.sympatico.caSMSA URL: www3.ns.sympatico.ca/mikeack/SMSA_Web_Page.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 20:57:10 -0600 From: Lee Jasper Subject: More on New Blood in the RFC Check the person's site out at Talking about working overtime. There are over 100 different transcripts from court cases hosted on the site - including one of my favourites - Clifford Owen Sabiston v. George E. A. Reid, CFO and the Attorney General of Alberta. This was a significant precedent where the court directed that a grandfathered FAC be issued to the applicant solely because he was an 'experienced firearm owner' and that he be exempt from the CFSC exams. I am not unsure whether the Mount Sinai Hospital v. Quebec (Minister of Health and Social Services) which addresses the need for government to fulfil it's promises is onsite, but it isalso a good read. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 21:24:53 -0600 From: Moderator Subject: Lock & Load Firearms Dealers The original message from awp@datanet.ab.ca may have been corrupted. This firearms business has been raided again. You may recall information from the last raid . when one of the owners. Randy Sinclair was arrested by Edmonton city Police at a range some 40 miles West of Edmonton an returned to the premises during the raid. The Police apparently under the direction of the CFO Edmonton, claimed also that Peter Kearns was an owner of this business and Peter's home was raided as well. Peter's wife was abused during the raid and forced to remain stationary in a chair without even bathroom access for hours. The confusion and tyranical treatment was apparently as a result of some misguided belief that Peter Kearns was a part owner of Lock & Load, which Peter has denied. Peter's only connection, he says , is that one of the owners is a former employee of Kearns& McMurchie - Peter's former business. There is no other information of this latest smash and grab by the CFO's JackBooted gang at this moment. Please post anything you learn. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 21:36:13 -0600 From: Bruce Mills Subject: Re: New blood Jim Powlesland wrote: > > On Wed, 13 Feb 2002, Lee Jasper wrote: > > It is a cause for celebration when a new face joins the crusade. > "A" new face? So why does this person then refer to himself as some kind > of holy trinity? > And, oddly, as also "a major provider of scams, frauds, and patented > love tonics to the Southwestern Ontario region"? > See http://www.tamerlane.ca/about/ Did you lose your sense of humour somewhere, Jim? > > One such person has done a tremendous job of researching and > > hosting legal documents and recently established a significant > > precedent. > And of course having the good taste to post not one but *two* Lee Jasper > articles, eh doc? > See http://www.tamerlane.ca/firearms/ And how does that detract from the certainly valuable legal documents he *does* provide? Just where are your articles, Jim? Bruce Hamilton Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 21:36:14 -0600 From: "Marc Mousseau" Subject: Ammunition Purchasing Requirements Follow-up Ammunition Purchasing Requirements Follow-up . Federal law requires that purchasers of ammunition hold a valid firearms license (FA 25.) . The Ontario Ammunition Regulation Act, 1994 (was Bill-181) requires that dealers record valid ID, address and quantity of ammunition purchased. This provincial law is still in effect according to local firearms officer (Ottawa) as well as the CFO. . Most, if not all, Ontario dealers are recording firearms licenses in order to meet requirements of provincial and federal law at same time. . Ontario dealers are allowed to record other ID to comply with the provincial law. They do NOT need to record your PAL as long as other ID is provided for recording purposes. If a dealer is demanding the PAL be recorded, that would be their store policy, not the law. . I have been informed that "The Gun Room" will accept other ID for provinical recording requirements as long as a PAL is also shown for federal purposes. . Dealers in other provinces, for the most part, are not recording any information, just asking to see your firearms license. . I would concentrate any Ontario efforts at this time on getting commitments from the Ontario leadership candidates to have the province opt-out of all administration of the costly, ineffective federal firearms law. . - -- Marc Mousseau ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 21:55:47 -0600 From: "Brad Thorarinson" Subject: Re: CFO refuses to obey Court direction > Unfortunately, I don't know what can be done about this person's > actions. If the Court can't enforce its orders, what good is the > Court? Does anyone ahve any ideas on how to make this guy obey? > Bruce > Hamilton > Ontario Hmmm. Perhaps apply to a competent court for a writ of Mandamus? Then failing to comply would be contempt of court; possibly it already is. I seem to recall there was a criminal code section which covered public officers and breach of duty (failing to do something they are required to do) but I don't have my C.C. handy. Sec. 337 covers _things_ and failing to produce them when demanded, it wasn't that, I don't think. And then, you'd still have to prosecute the case or get a Crown to do it (ha!). Very difficult, from what I have heard, but then, this is not a trivial matter. If the government's own agents don't follow the court's orders, we hardly have the rule of law anymore, do we? Just one more reason I feel like spitting every time I think of how this country is being governed. Brad Moderator: In the Liberal vision of Canada they and their employees are above the Law that governs everyone else. And Easterners wonder why the west is ready to split? Time to go! Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 00:19:26 -0600 From: Lee Jasper Subject: Lab fudges test results Toronto Sun; Thursday, February 14, 2002 ONE FINE MESS Lab sparked concerns in '98: Audit HAMILTON-Ontario's environment ministry knew as early as 1998 of serious testing problems at a private Hamilton lab now at the centre of a major fraud probe, a researcher says. A government audit obtained by The Toronto Sun shows wildly varied results for the same sample of commercial paper sludge tested by Fine Analysis Laboratories Ltd. and the ministry's own lab in 1998. Police allege they've found evidence of forged documents involving 42 of the lab's clients, including multinational pharmaceuticals, and more are expected. (Apparently municipal water supplies, hazardous waste slated for sanitary land filling and the surface spreading of huge quantities of Metro Toronto sewage sludge are also involved). ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 00:19:26 -0600 From: Peter Kearns Subject: Lock & Load Raid. The stadzpolitzei (arse-cee-empee,) arrived at L & L a little before four o'clock today. They had numerous "keystone kops" and assorted officers, a fire truck and a dangerous goods truck. The "klowns" took both owners downtown and proceeded to empty the shelves at the store. It seems the dangerous goods truck was there to cart guns away, and the fire truck, possibly in case the federal goons set the place on fire. At nine thirty tonight the "klowns" are still working to empty the store. They transported Randy and Blair downtown and released both around five this evening. Think about this brethren....... "Operation Karabine" appears to be a very determined effort by the authorities to harass gun stores out of business. They remove all the inventory and release it piece by piece after a few weeks. What business can survive without inventory? I think we now know the true intent of "Karabine." Blair was released and went home to find another team of "elite" thugs waiting to search his home. (Blair has been a licenced FA collector for some time, so they will undoubtedly be showing machine guns to the media!) Apparently the "elite" team are removing his collection at this time. Police advise that L & L will not open tomorrow, as they won't be finished whatever it is they are doing. Blair and Randy's lawyer is aware of the raids, and apparently, (second hand information,) regards them as "more harassment by the RCMP." How low this country has sunk.............. We let goons like this trample on the rights of ordinary citizens. I have known both men for more than twenty years and neither has ever done anything that could be construed as illegal, to my knowledge. They are fine ordinary decent men. L & L's lawyer just finished a Court case today outlining the arse-cee-empee, and Crown Prosecutors malicious prosecution of a man named Jason Dix. The wonderful law enforcers tried to tailor facts to fit their notion that Dix was a murderer, despite him having an unimpeachable alibi! (Sounds familiar to me. They dreamt that I was smuggling machine guns into "Kanada" and tried to find evidence, (with a singular lack of success,) to prove their fantasies!) I would imagine the lawyer will enter a statement of claim soon for L & L. (Well at least the goons didn't come and pester yer 'umble servant, yet!) Has anyone been able to access the NFA Members Digest, or the members section of the website? Neither will accept me, and it appears I'm not alone. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 01:06:13 -0600 From: Moderator Subject: Lock & Load Firearms Dealers As late as 10 Pm Mountain time Police continue to carry boxes from this established firearm's dealers premises. Some of our members have firearms there for repairs. Damage to their property in any way will certainly result in civil claims! Gordon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 08:59:51 -0600 From: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Police Seize Guns Firearms Business Owner in custody after officers find 75 guns at his home. City police adn RCMPolice raided a west end gun shop Thursday and seized hundreds fo weapons as they looked for improperly documented prohibited and restricted firearms. Officers closed the doors of Lock and Load, 15889 116th Ave, Thursday morning and began cataloguing everything in the shop, said Police spokeswoman, Annette Bidniak. All the weapons were seized, along with computers and files, she said. The search warrant was obtained based on information from the provincial firearms officer about possible irregularities at that business. "Avariety of firearms including shotguns and rifles, assorted assault weapons including a couple of UZis, tear gas canisters, and in one case a launcher and handguns were seized. All together, there were more than 400 seized," she said. As well, a search at one owner's northside home turned up a variety of weapons. That owner "is currently in custody being questioned" Bidniak said Thursday night. " His house was searched and there we seized an assortment of 75 guns." Bidniak said once all the seized weapons are packed up, "what has to happen in the next few days is we have to sort out what is legal. "But likely all of the guns, the legal ones , will be turned over to the provincial firearms officer, depending on what happens with this person's license." And she said" charges are pending. It's just that those charges have to be sorted out, because there is so much paper work to go through with this size of a seizure." Bidniak said Thursday's investigation is not connected to a raid at several stores, including Lock & Load, last summer. Last june's investigation and charges were triggered by the discovery of supposedly "deactivated" handguns at Edmonton crime scenes. Police spokesman Wes Bellmore said that one such gun turned up at the scene of a homicide. Another jammed when a suspect tried to fire it at a city police officer. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 09:11:57 -0600 From: Paul Chicoine Subject: your 25 cents worth? I look forward to see the city resolve this dilemma. Either the governments trust the billion boondoggle or they don't. http://www.canada.com/montreal/montrealgazette/story.asp?id={6D94146A-86DA-4C11-B30F-8308A8A814CF} Montreal Gazette February 15, 2002 LINDA GYULAI Montreal Gazette Friday, February 15, 2002 If Peter Yeomans has his way, the city of Montreal will destroy the revolvers of about 4,600 municipal police officers in full public view when the weapons are replaced with semi-automatic pistols this year. The question is: Would the public be willing to pay the $400,000 it will cost to do that, to prevent the weapons from possibly falling into the wrong hands? "It's a moral dilemma," said Yeomans, city councillor for Dorval and the person responsible for public security on the city's executive committee. The now-defunct Montreal Urban Community voted in August to approve the $4.7-million purchase of 9-millimetre semi-automatic pistols and accessories to replace the police's arsenal of .357-calibre revolvers and 30-year-old Smith & Wesson .38-calibre revolvers. The $400,000 represents what the city would get for trading in the old guns. The police department has since come under the control of the newly merged city of Montreal, which has delayed the purchase because Mayor Gérald Tremblay's administration wanted to re-examine some of the details of the deal before giving its OK. The bids from gun companies to supply the police department came in about a week ago, Yeomans said. One detail that's being looked at is whether to destroy each of the old handguns or allow the supplier of the new weapons to take the old guns back, as is often done. Suppliers give an assurance the old guns could wind up only with other police departments. Yeomans said he's concerned about reports old handguns from other police forces have wound up in criminals' hands. Would you be ready to pay about 25 cents "to have that gun destroyed so it didn't get into the hands of the wrong people?" he asked. The gun purchase is to be discussed this month at a closed-door meeting of the city's public-security committee, said Commander André Durocher of Montreal police. Until then, he said, he can't comment. The Montreal Police Brotherhood would not oppose paying to destroy the old weapons, even though there are laws regulating their reuse, said Yves Francoeur, the brotherhood's director of communications. - - Linda Gyulai's E-mail address is lgyulai@thegazette.southam.ca. ===== ____________ Paul Chicoine Illegitimi non Carborundum Non Assumsit Contract, All Rights Reserved, Without Prejudice. _________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Got something to say? Say it better with Yahoo! Video Mail http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 09:12:33 -0600 From: Michael Ackermann Subject: check this out Have a look at the top link on the SMSA Politics page at: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/mikeack/Politics.html ("Opposed to Gun Ownership?...") - -- M.J. Ackermann, MD (Mike) President, St. Mary's Shooters Association Box 3, RR 1, 4132 Sonora Rd. Sherbrooke, NS Canada B0J 3C0 902-522-2172 My email: mikeack@ns.sympatico.caSMSA URL: www3.ns.sympatico.ca/mikeack/SMSA_Web_Page.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 09:37:59 -0600 From: Owner.Cdn-Firearms-Digest Subject: Police Raid. Firearms Business Owner in custody after officers find 75 guns at his home. City police and RCMPolice raided a west end gun shop Thursday and seized hundreds fo weapons as they looked for improperly documented prohibited and restricted firearms. Officers closed the doors of Lock and Load, 15889 116th Ave, Thursday morning and began cataloguing everything in the shop, said Police spokeswoman, Annette Bidniak. All the weapons were seized, along with computers and files, she said. The search warrant was obtained based on information from the provincial firearms officer about possible irregularities at that business. "Avariety of firearms including shotguns and rifles, assorted assault weapons including a couple of UZis, tear gas canisters, and in one case a launcher and handguns were seized. All together, there were more than 400 seized," she said. As well, a search at one owner's northside home turned up a variety of weapons. That owner "is currently in custody being questioned" Bidniak said Thursday night. " His house was searched and there we seized an assortment of 75 guns." Bidniak said once all the seized weapons are packed up, "what has to happen in the next few days is we have to sort out what is legal. "But likely all of the guns, the legal ones , will be turned over to the provincial firearms officer, depending on what happens with this person's license." And she said" charges are pending. It's just that those charges have to be sorted out, because there is so much paper work to go through with this size of a seizure." Bidniak said Thursday's investigation is not connected to a raid at several stores, including Lock & Load, last summer. Last june's investigation and charges were triggered by the discovery of supposedly "deactivated" handguns at Edmonton crime scenes. Police spokesman Wes Bellmore said that one such gun turned up at the scene of a homicide. Another jammed when a suspect tried to fire it at a city police officer. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 09:45:25 -0600 From: "dmwright" Subject: gun show GUN SHOW This Sunday Feb 17th, To be held at "Woodstock Fairgrounds" in = the Oxford Auditorium, 875 Nellis Street, one block North of Dundas = Street, (HWY #2) at West Ave, Woodstock, Ontario. The show runs from 8 = a.m. till 1 p.m. For more information please call 905-689-8181 Moderator: Please! no more multi part mime or html messages. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 10:18:42 -0600 From: "Bruce Montague" Subject: Problems with CFO of Ontario Bruce Mills CFD post #V4 546: - -------snip-------- > > The CFO had refused to issue a transfer of firearm registration, > > claiming that membership in a gun club was a necessary > > pre-condition. Superior Court Justice Jenkins disagreed with the > > CFO and agreed with the appellant and directed that the CFO > > issue a transfer of registration and an ATT. - ------snip-------- >and invite all Ontarians to post their negative encouters with >the CPFO of Ontario here. - ------snip--------- . Bruce Montague writes in response to this request : My problems with the CFO are numerous and ongoing. I have to deal with them both as a business (Monty's Gunsmithing) and personally. One of my 'problems' is very similar to the one noted above. . I acquired four handguns in Dec. 2000, and still have not successfully gotten them registered to me. Their excuses are numerous so I won't bore you with all the details, but the latest excuse is that I don't have a valid ATT, so they can't transfer them to me. It is interesting to note that I am a member in good standing in a gun club, but the CFO has been dragging it's ass for many months now in issuing me with my ATT. Slick scam they have going, isn't it?!?!? . Fortunately, I don't have a lot of respect for these bloated power tripping bureaucrats, that like to push their weight around just for the pleasure of seeing people suffer. I have been enjoying the use of these guns for over a year now without their blessing. Sooner or later I imagine they will get around to issuing me with my ATT and possibly even the green slips for my private property. . ON DIFFERENT NOTE: I am seeing way too many people registering their guns in this area (northwestern Ontario). We all have to get the word out, that the fight isn't over yet. If too many people endorse this registration by volunteering to register early, we will be fighting a losing battle. This year (because of this alarming trend) I have instituted a store policy where I will not work on a customers guns, if he/she has voluntarily registered their guns. It's a tough stand to make, but I'm hoping that word of this gets out and makes people think twice about whether they should register or not. This may sort of fall into that "tough love" category that Mike Ackermann talks about. - -And believe me, it's tough to turn down business, especially if it was a good, long standing customer. I did however have one exception to this last week. A customer came in claiming to be a friend of my 'friendly CFO inspector' with two guns for servicing. He then went on to say how he registered all his guns. . Needless to say, the conversation degraded considerably after this point. This guy became increasingly agitated after many attempts to get me to work on his guns. At one point he aggressively approached me and verbally threatened to "kick me in the nuts". After a brief pause he reconsidered his threat (I'm bigger than him) and left the shop, while uttering more threats to me. He even urinated on my front walkway!! After seeing this display, I was convinced that he truely was a friend of my 'friendly CFO inspector. . This may not be one of my brightest business ideas, but I can no longer in good conscience do business with anyone who is a gun owner and decides to help endorse the firearms act in this way. - - I guess the anti's can no longer claim I'm biased in this fight, because in this case I'm "putting my money where my mouth is". . . . Yours in Liberty, Bruce. . "There can be no compromise on basic principles. There can be no compromise on moral issues. There can be no compromise on matters of knowledge, of truth, of rational conviction." - - Ayn Rand . Live free or die. - -the caption on New Hampshire license plates ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V4 #547 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:acardin33@shaw.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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