From: Cdn-Firearms Digest [owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca] Sent: Wednesday, 20 February, 2002 22:44 To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V4 #559 Cdn-Firearms Digest Wednesday, February 20 2002 Volume 04 : Number 559 In this issue: Police grab hostage taker as he tries to escape bank Column: Firearm safety and hunter education absolutely vital Two men face charges in bud hunt gone bad computer security WinNT4 C2, Was: Government Computer Security??? ANSWERS WANTED IN MURDER-SUICIDE Re: Add On Choke Gun Deaths and .22s Stealth Monitoring Defenses DIMMOCK REPORT My letter to the Editor, Regina Leader-Post Help Identify a Colt Model 1851 Navy revolver reproduction Police Arizona style Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V4 #557 Barrel length with choke barrel length ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 15:38:26 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Police grab hostage taker as he tries to escape bank PUBLICATION GLOBE AND MAIL DATE: WED FEB.20,2002 PAGE: A22 BYLINE: JOHN SAUNDERS CLASS: Toronto News EDITION: Metro DATELINE: WORDS: 174 - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- Police grab hostage taker as he tries to escape bank - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- John Saunders A would-be bank robber who held three hostages at gunpoint with a fake revolver was taken alive yesterday as he tried to lead one of them through a cordon of police officers, some aiming sniper rifles. The drama began after a man broke into a Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce branch on Finch Avenue near Weston Road before it was open and took two women hostage as they arrived for work. When police surrounded the building, he marched one of the women outside at gunpoint, then let her go and tried to run. At a nearby TD Canada Trust branch, he seized a man and tried to walk him past the police with the gun held to his neck. Both fell to the ground, either because they stumbled or because the hostage intentionally brought them down, and police rushed in to make the arrest. A 20-year-man faces multiple counts of robbery, hostage taking, breaking and entering and use of an imitation . The hostages suffered minor scrapes and bruises, police said. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 15:38:22 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Column: Firearm safety and hunter education absolutely vital PUBLICATION: The Leader-Post (Regina) DATE: 2002.02.20 EDITION: Final SECTION: Sports PAGE: C7 COLUMN: Outdoor Life BYLINE: Michael Snook SOURCE: The Leader-Post - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- Firearm safety and hunter education absolutely vital - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- Two stories this week -- both, in their own way, signs of the times. The first, a tragedy. A Regina man lost his life last weekend when he was accidentally shot by a handgun. He was riding on a snowmobile at the time. The gun, a nine-millimetre pistol, was in his pocket, and it discharged. The resulting injury was fatal. The very unusual circumstances of the accident are an all-too-vivid illustration of the reasons for both safety courses, and some of the legal limits placed on . Handguns are by their very nature smaller, more easily carried, easier to forget about, than long guns like rifles and shotguns that, by their very size, demand more of our attention. Almost all modern handguns are loaded with multi-shot clips, and it's easy to forget there's a round in the chamber, ready to fire -- an invitation to exactly the kind of terrible and sad event that took place last weekend. It's these characteristics that have resulted in the strict limits placed on handguns. I'm not sure how many laws are being broken by someone carrying a loaded nine-mm pistol on a snowmobile, but I'm certain it's more than one. We're accustomed, in Canada, to thinking of the U.S. as the place where anyone can own and carry a handgun, and we've been led to believe almost everyone does. But the rules are changing in the U.S. for Canadians, and other non-Americans, who travel to that country. As of yesterday, it is unlawful for non-residents (non-immigrant aliens) to possess and receive firarms and ammunition in the U.S. There are some exceptions. If you are a non-resident and arrange to have a firearm directly exported to Canada by a U.S. licensed dealer, then you're okay. If you're a non-resident, but you have a valid U.S. state issued hunting licence or permit, or an official invitation to a U.S. competitive sports-shooting event, that's okay too. If you can prove that you have been in the U.S. for at least 90 days, or you have an alien or admission number issued by the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service (IMS), then you're an exception to the new law. Law enforcement officers on official business in the U.S. are also exempt. Of course, any Canadian importing from the U.S. has to abide by all the Canadian laws once they take delivery of the in this country. If you plan to take your firearm into the U.S., then you'll need to have a U.S. customs pre-approved import permit, and evidence that you fall into one of the above exempted categories.You can get the permit by applying to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and , available at the ATF office in Ottawa, (call 202-927-8320 for further information) on the ATF website (www.atf.treas.gov). Or you can contact the Canadian Centre (613-941-1991), or their website at www.cfc.gc.ca. Modern , particularly handguns, are sophisticated, complex things. So are the laws, rules and regulations that govern their use. Even in the nation that prides itself on being the most free, least regulated country on earth, the rules are getting more complicated. Anyone who handles , particularly handguns, is taking responsibility for a potentially dangerous item. The need for training in the safe handling of is never more evident than when a tragic accident happens. One of the most dramatic facts in the entire regulation debate is the extent to which firearm safety courses reduced the incidence of serious and fatal accidents in every jurisdiction where they were implemented. Training people to have a healthy respect for , to use them with caution and common sense, has done more than complicated laws, rules and regulations will ever do. Short of removing every firearm from the possession of every legal and illegal owner, (an unlikely event under any circumstance), there is no way to remove the risk from their possession and use. But the reduction in potential harm that can result from proper training and regulations that make us think twice before we tuck a loaded rifle behind the seat in a pickup truck, or a loaded pistol into our pocket, is worth the effort. The possible consequences of an error in judgement, a mistake, an accident, are just too serious, too tragic, too unimagineable for firearm safety ever to be taken for granted. Firearm safety and hunter education is available in Regina through SAFE, reachable at 352-6730. (Outdoor Life appears Wednesdays; Michael Snook can be reached atsagecommunications@sasktel.net) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 15:38:25 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Two men face charges in bud hunt gone bad PUBLICATION: The Province DATE: 2002.02.20 EDITION: Final SECTION: News PAGE: A8 COLUMN: B.C. News SOURCE: News Services - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- Two men face charges in bud hunt gone bad - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- Vancouver police say there's a strong likelihood two men may have been impersonating police in two separate incidents in which they were searching for marijuana in homes. A 19-year-old and a 29-year-old face charges of attempted break-and-enter, possession of housebreaking instruments and pointing a . A 25-year-old Vancouver man faces possible charges of cultivation of marijuana after a grow-op was found at one of the residences yesterday. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:20:10 -0600 From: "Brian Drader" Subject: computer security >Don Clarke wrote: > (snip) >how do us ordinary mortals check >our computers to see if there is a stealth monitor program running that >is reporting our every keystroke to a nefarious agency like the >Arse-Cee-Em-Pee without our knowledge or consent? One can never be reliably and 100% certain that there is no such software on his or her computer - let alone on the hundreds of other computers and networks that we use to connect to the Internet. Therefore, the appropriate response is to consider *all* your computer activities, keystroke by keystroke by microphone signal by screen by mouse click, from your term paper to your love notes, to be 100% insecure to anyone who cares. Several governments at all three levels have shown no aversion to the expenditure of massive resources on firearms laws and cases that do not involve public safety. Anyone interested in the publicly-available nuts and bolts of stealth monitoring might check out the terms 'magic lantern' 'Data Interception by Remote Transmission' 'carnivore' and 'echelon'. Computer programs don't care who they work for. Cheers, Brian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:20:11 -0600 From: Roger Walker Subject: WinNT4 C2, Was: Government Computer Security??? I On Sat, 9 Feb 2002, Rick Lowe wrote: > However, while Microsoft is not the sterling example of secure > networking, those NT 4.0 workstations you mentioned CAN be properly > configured as a C2 compliant system. That system was C2 compliant as long as it didn't have a network connection. Microsoft doesn't like to mention that part. Nor, it seems, have they tried to get that rating (or better) with anything else. I know several people who can trash any networked Windows system... - -- Roger Walker Voice/Fax 1-780-440-2685 "HIS Pain; YOUR Gain" Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:20:08 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: ANSWERS WANTED IN MURDER-SUICIDE PUBLICATION: The Edmonton Sun DATE: 2002.02.20 SECTION: News PAGE: 16 SOURCE: Edmonton Sun BYLINE: Andrea Wiebe ILLUSTRATION: photo of JENNIFER STENBERG Found dead - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- 'SOMETHING TRIGGERED HIM'; ANSWERS WANTED IN MURDER-SUICIDE - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- The family of a man police say shot his girlfriend before turning the on himself never saw any warning signs, the man's distraught cousin said yesterday. "If there was anything going on, we had no idea. He was such a fun-loving person," said Billie-Jo Reynolds, 22, from her home in Mayerthorpe, 106 km northwest of Edmonton. "I never saw any violent tendencies with him." Lanny Currie, 21, and his 20-year-old girlfriend Jennifer Stenberg were found dead Friday morning in the trailer they shared on an acreage just east of Rich Valley, 83 km northwest of Edmonton. A spokesman for the Stony Plain RCMP said yesterday that weekend autopsy results and forensic tests show that Currie used a high-powered hunting rifle to shoot Stenberg and then himself, both at close range. Stenberg was found on the bed, with Currie nearby in the bedroom, said Const. Kim McKee. "We can't tell if she was sleeping or not," he said. Police are concluding their investigation, and McKee said it's unlikely they'll ever know what led to the murder-suicide. "It could have been a number of factors. With a lot of domestic things, we don't know. Obviously there was something that triggered him to do that," McKee said. And those unanswered questions are making the deaths hard for Currie's large family to comprehend, said a tearful Reynolds. "It's sad that he has done this, and I feel for her family, I really do. But the thing that upsets us is (media coverage) made it look like he was a horrible person," said Reynolds. Reynolds called Currie's actions "inexcusable," but said that doesn't take away his family's love for him. "Growing up with Lanny, I remember him as tender-hearted, fun-loving, with a love for quads, dirt bikes and hunting. That is how I will always remember him." Reynolds said she doesn't believe any of her family members could have foreseen the deaths. "I did not know of any prior signs of threats or violence. If someone did, then why didn't someone take him seriously and get him help, or let his family know so we could have helped him?" A memorial service for Currie will be held at the Barrhead United Church tomorrow at 1 p.m. Currie attended high school in Barrhead, which is 116 kmnorthwest of Edmonton. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:20:09 -0600 From: "Steve Allen" Subject: Re: Add On Choke Does this matter anymore? The old registrations had the length of the barrel listed, but the new questionnaire only asks if the barrel is longer than 18.5 inches, so the question may be a moot one if they've abandoned the lengths altogether. Then again, I would like to know if I cut a barrel down to 14.99 inches, and added a poly-choke to it, if it would be prohibited. The only safe answer seems to be to write down unknown if given that option ;-) > question is.... Does the barrel length of the shotgun include the > adjustable choke? > Bill ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:20:08 -0600 From: "DJ MacIntyre" Subject: Gun Deaths and .22s >High Level RCMP Staff Sgt. Peter Sherstan said gun incidents >involving a .22-calibre usually result in death, so the teen was >lucky. Here is another instance of ignorance. >Of 131,241 woundings only 16.6 per cent were fatal. 68.9 per cent were >non-fatal woundings. Source: An Economic Analysis of Guns, Crime and Gun >Control. >The truth is that "gun incidents involving a .22 calibre firearm" do NOT >usually result in death. Got another spin on that, for you, Ed, to think about. I knew personally, growing up in the Maritimes, three kids who decided to end their own lives with firearms. They all used .22s. Somewhere I read that the majority of suicides, or atleast a disproportional amount of them, were adolescents. When you (and I) were adolescents, what was the handiest firearm? It's not, I suggest, that the .22 is an especially lethal firearm, it's what the most common "gun incident" involving it may well be... DJ _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 17:01:27 -0600 From: "Howard R. Hamilton" Subject: Stealth Monitoring Defenses Greetings! . Don Clark ment6ioned ... . > Next (everyone jump in here please), how do us ordinary mortals check > our computers to see if there is a stealth monitor program running that > is reporting our every keystroke to a nefarious agency like the > Arse-Cee-Em-Pee without our knowledge or consent? . There are two quick solutions that can be used here by people who are not computer guru's: anti-virus software and personal firewalls. . If you do a virus scan on your system, most current virus software will detect any software stealth monitoring programs as a "worm" or "trojan" (there are a couple versions that have been developed by the FBI that the FBI is trying to have the AV software companies ignore, but to my knowledge, this has not happened yet). . If you install a personal firewall, (such as Zone Alarm), you can set them to prevent any unauthorized software from sending stuff out to the internet (usually the default setting) and alert you to the occurrence. . This does not preclude a hardware device (usually, it will be a small module in line with your keyboard connector) from being installed, and then the being reclaimed after a second grab of your equipment. . A more in-depth solution would be to re-install of your software from original disks (not practical for a lot of people, but also effective). . Regards BUZ - -- | Howard R. Hamilton | ___ | Senior Programmer Analyst | o__ o__ | |\ | International Road Dynamics Inc. | /| /\ | |X\ | Phone: (306) 653-9707 | / > o < \ | |XX\ | FAX: (306) 242-5599 | - -------------------------- Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 22:20:57 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: DIMMOCK REPORT contact us: editor@dimmockreport.com tips@dimmockreport.com COPYRIGHT© 2001 Adam Thomlison and Gary Dimmock Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 22:20:58 -0600 From: Bruce Mills Subject: My letter to the Editor, Regina Leader-Post [Just submitted, not yet printed] - -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: Firearm safety and hunter education absolutely vital Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 18:16:21 -0500 From: Bruce Mills To: letters@leaderpost.com While I agree with Mr. Snook that firearms safety training is vital, I do disagree with some of his assumptions about firearms, and firearms laws. Mr. Snook's argument that even the laws in the US are getting stricter is specious. While laws regarding purchases by non-US citizens have become stricter, the laws pertaining to the rights of US citizens to carry concealed handguns are getting less strict. At last count, there were 32 out of the 50 States that are "Shall Issue", 11 that are "May Issue" and only 6 that are "No Issue". Vermont is in a state of its own, since there are no laws at all about concealed carry: all citizens are allowed to carry at will. Those states that introduce "Shall Issue" laws see a drop in violent crime, without a corresponding increase in "shootouts", as some detractors envision. There will always be stupid people, and there will always be stupid accidents - training is of vital importance. More restrictive laws that infringe upon the rights of Canadians, at a cost of at least $700 million, with little discernible return, is not, in my estimation, the way to do it. Restrictions placed on handguns, and other firearms, by the Federal Government are simply a means to an end: the eventual elimination of private ownership of firearms. Bruce Hamilton Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 22:30:23 -0600 From: "The Penney's" Subject: Help Identify a Colt Model 1851 Navy revolver reproduction Guys, I need a little help identifying a recent acquisition. Its an Italian reproduction of the Colt Model 1851 Navy revolver in .36 cal. It has a brass frame/trigger guard. Light brown wood grips, appears to be Walnut. The bullet ramrod located under the octagonal barrel is color case hardened. Barrel and cylinder is blued. Barrel length is 190mm. On the right side of the frame there are two proof marks. The first, from left to right, is a small box with what looks like an "X" inside it. On top of the box is a circle with a "star" inside it. The next mark is a capital "PN" with another circle immediately over the two letters. The same proof marks are found on the barrel along with the words "Black Powder Only" On the left side it is marked ".36 cal Navy Model" On the top of the octagonal barrel it is marked "Euroarms * BRESCIA Made In Italy" On the bottom of the frame is the S/N 65XX It was purchased new in the 1970s and never fired. This is my first black powder revolver. I had thought perhaps it was an early Uberti, however, I don't know enough about the repro industry to comment one way or another. Any extra info would be very welcome. Also, if anyone can recommend a good book for beginner black powder shooters I'd appreciate it. I will be casting my own round balls and conical bullets for it, however, any load advice, etc... would be welcome. I think I have the basics pretty much down, but am never too proud to learn! Thanks in advance. Regards, Sean ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 22:30:24 -0600 From: "Mike Hargreaves" Subject: Police Arizona style Well the difference in Phoenix Police compared to ours! at lest a wee = while ago my son and I spent a Christmas in Mesa Arizona, stayed in a = really nice Hotel,a buddy of mine (since retired) was a Sgt. in Phoenix = PD, we could not take our own Glocks with us, had to be Dept weapons = only in the Squad, my young driver made sure I knew where his spare .357 = Smith was! our first call was a dispute, next door neighbours, in = entering one of those houses, the first thing I noticed was a loaded = revolver along side buddies ironing board, I asked the young Officer if = he would care to have me unload it ! he just gave me a strange look! he = asked me "how come?" when we got outside! "he has the right to have the = gun, about the place". I said, OK, and the show went on. Every call, = "good evening Sir!! marm." Really pleasant. Mike Hargreavrs ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 22:30:51 -0600 From: "Ed Bratt" Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V4 #557 > > Of 131,241 woundings only 16.6 per cent were fatal. 68.9 per cent were > > non-fatal woundings. > > Source: An Economic Analysis of Guns, Crime and Gun Control. > > > > The truth is that "gun incidents involving a .22 calibre firearm" do NOT > > usually result in death. > While your point is valid, I have to question your math. > Fatal = 16.6% > Non-fatal = 68.9% > which leaves 14.5% of the woundings which were neither fatal or non- > fatal. > - -- > Earl Johnston, ejohnston@ns.sympatico.ca > "....and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy > one." > Yeshua ben Yosef .. Luke 22:36 Earl: I know it does not add up, but as I have no way to question the authors of the study, I can only assume that the medical diagnosis of the 14.5 % remainder is not yet complete. They may be "on the mend", or conversely "palliative". Ed ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 22:32:56 -0600 From: "Frank S. McLeod" Subject: Barrel length with choke For what it is worth I have a shotgun which came with a factory fitted choke. Factory specs indicate barrel length of 26 " and in fact it measures 26" including the choke device. Frank Mcleod ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 22:43:52 -0600 From: Sorensens Subject: barrel length >I have a shotgun with a "polychoke" adjustable choke >permanently silver soldered on the end of the barrel. > Does the barrel length of the shotgun include the adjustable choke? I don't know and neither does the CFC. I asked them the same question regarding a Browning "A" bolt with a BOSS device installed. The case of the BOSS is even more interesting because adjusting it changes the "barrel" length. The actual part of the adjustable choke and of the adjustable "boss" that moves, is not part of the barrel length. Remove everything you can, without using a propane torch, acetylene torch or a hacksaw. What is left measures as barrel length. If they do not accept that, challenge them in court. Don't ask the CFC anything... as nice as some of them are, most of them do not know anything about firearms. I have had the absolute opposite of what the law actually is quoted to me. Dennis Sorensen ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V4 #559 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:acardin33@shaw.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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