From: Cdn-Firearms Digest [owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca] Sent: Wednesday, 27 February, 2002 22:23 To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V4 #576 Cdn-Firearms Digest Wednesday, February 27 2002 Volume 04 : Number 576 In this issue: RE: Posting of NFA Board Announcement on CFD 'Dude,' Don't Get A Dell A very astute observation [Fwd: NFA Announcement re Webmaster] My Letter to the Moncton Times & Transcript I JUST KNEW IT!!!! CAUCHON: "gun registration is something fantastic" "coup" Re: GUN CLUBS IN NEW BRUNSWICK? Just obey the law Oh, and by the way Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V4 #574 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 12:21:38 -0600 From: "Linda Toews" Subject: RE: Posting of NFA Board Announcement on CFD NFA Members There have been questions asked on NFAMemberDigest and on CFD as to why the recent NFA National Board Announcement regarding the Board's election call appeared on CFD and not on NFAMemberDigest. Responses have already been made to the individuals who asked those questions, however as it is no doubt of general interest also, information regarding that is now being posted here. It was never the Board's intention to the leave the field officers or general membership in the dark. Every attempt was made by the Board to keep the problem within the executive / director level of the provincial and national NFA structure until all the answers were in. Unfortunately, however, someone else had other ideas, and phoned in to the papers and the CBC in order to create rumours and the perception of great turmoil within the organisation. Following our successful downplaying of the situation with the press, misleading and false information was posted to NFADigest and CFD. At that point, we did post an official announcement to NFAMemberDigest, which never has appeared. The posting to CFD was successful. Apparently, there were some technical problems with NFAMemberDigest with some postings not getting through. This message was also a victim of those technical problems. Moderator Tom Zinck has indicated on this list that he has been able to fix the problem. There are serious financial concerns which members of the National Board and some Provincial Presidents tried to resolve with the National Executive without success forcing the National Board to take this step to protect the organisation and assets of the NFA. An independent audit is now underway and once it is complete we will then have a lot of answers. We expect to have more information available once the audit is completed. In the meantime, the national office is continuing to operate with the same people you have come to rely upon to get the memberships processed, etc. Thanks to renewal notices sent out in the last month from the national office, we are now receiving stacks of membership renewals daily. The office is receiving numerous calls for information on firearms and registration. We are being represented throughout the country at gun shows, sportsmen shows, and other events. NFA is functioning effectively and will continue to function effectively. All of us believe in the NFA and what it stands for. That's why we joined, and why we volunteer in various capacities to help the NFA in the fight for all of us to own our legally acquired firearms, and to stand up for the rights of firearms owners. We ask for your patience and support while we work through this situation. Now, more than ever, we need to be strong and continue the fight. Other groups have had problems; some have fallen by the wayside, some are still having difficulties, others have grown stronger. If we all pull together we will be one of the groups that grow stronger - but we all need to pull together to accomplish that. We need to continue to work for the best for the NFA and to fight for our rights to own our own property, our rights to enjoy our cultural heritage, our shooting sports and collecting interests, and our choice to live in Canada with rights and freedoms. Let's continue to work together on all of these. Linda Toews Spokesperson for the National Board ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 12:46:26 -0600 From: Jim Pook Subject: 'Dude,' Don't Get A Dell From: http://www.sierratimes.com/02/02/27/arjw022702.htm 'Dude,' Don't Get A Dell By Jack Weigand: 02.27.02 - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- Note: Sierra Times has learned that since this orginal publication, Dell Computers has called this matter a 'breakdown' in communications. However, it was not clear if the breakdown in communication was with Jack Weigand, or the Dell.com mail server - due to a healthy response from the Second Amendment community. Only time will tell. - - Sierra Times I am writing this because I feel every Firearms owner should know this story. I placed an order for a Dell notebook computer on February 13 on line with Dell. I was given a tentative delivery date of February 21st. I was watching the order through the Dell on line tracking system; I also opted for the automatic email notification of when the machine was to be shipped. Well the 21st came and went, I am a Pistolsmith I know things can happen. I made a phone call on the 25th, did a voice mail message for my salesman to get back to me and I was looking for the delivery date. The 25th came and went with no callback. On the 26th I placed another call this time to cancel the order. After a few hours I got a call back, with this amazing reason for the delay. It seems someone in Dell had already canceled my order, when I asked why I was told Dell was afraid I was going to use the machine for illegal purposes. When I asked why someone would think that I was told it was because of the name of my business "Weigand Combat Handguns Inc.". Because I am involved in firearms I might be doing something illegal. Now keep in mind I was never called or informed of this decision the order was just canceled. Many of you know me personally and know I run my business about as squeaky clean as possible. In addition being the President of the American Pistolsmiths Guild I am under additional scrutiny as to how I run my business, if I am not clean how can I be the President of an organization that promotes just that! I was informed by a Dell supervisor not long after all of this the reason I was refused was because of their post September 11th policy of screening buyers. I would like to respectfully ask the firearms community to do the following. If you intended to buy a Dell and because of this letter you do not, email Dell and let them know why. Feel free to distribute this account to all you know in the Firearms community, I think they need to know. I for one am sick and tired of people assuming just because we are involved with firearms that we are doing something illegal. I also do not believe Dell deserves our business if this is how they intend to treat us. God Bless Jack Weigand President American Pistolsmiths Guild Inc. Dell Computer Corporation One Dell Way Round Rock, Texas 78682 (512) 338-4400 800-915-3355 Related Links: Jack Weigand http://www.jackweigand.com/ Dell Computer http://www.dell.com/us/en/gen/default.htm E-mail Dell Direct at: webmaster@dell.com Permission to reprint/republish granted, as long as you include the name of our site, the author, and our URL. www.SierraTimes.com All Sierra Times news reports, and all editorials are © 2002 SierraTimes.com (unless otherwise noted) - - 30 - Jim Pook Burnaby, BC Canada jim@anglefish.com [Moderator's Note: please turn off MIME/HTML encoding when sending messages to the CFD. BNM] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 13:19:18 -0600 From: "Karl Schrader" Subject: A very astute observation From: Michael Ackermann Subject: My Opinion ***All along I have been saying that there is likely no legal way to beat this thing.*** Dr.Mike has put it very clear ! He mentions "the State", what and who is the "State" ? The state is a human invention and is run and operated by fellow human beings, now, what is motivating these other human beings to torture and mistreat their fellow human beings is probably taking a long list to describe. The law of the dschungle still applies and whoever member of the tribe is meek will be mistreated by whoever is meaner. And so it applies to the peaceloving and decent RFC. (The decent fellow always finishes last!) The state, or the humans we have put in charge and those entrenched in their positions as "civil servants" are going full speed ahead to dismantle basic fundamental justice (innocent until proven guilty, etc.etc.) and the Canadian masses are just looking on and letting it happen. Who the hell is that we have given so much power over us and who is manipulating the levers of that power with impunity? The Americans are also basically a bunch of immigrants just as we are, however, they went through hell and back for their freedom while Canadians never had to do that and now it shows in the differing stature of the two countries. *****I believe it will take something like the situation described in Ross' book to get the Freedom ball rolling. But Canadians haven't suffered enough yet to make them value Freedom. Most Canadians are quite comfortable and don't care about Freedom as long as their basic needs are being met (welfare {in all its many forms}, tobacco, alcohol, gambling, and Hockey Night in Canada). The State, of course, wants to totally disarm and domesticate us before we wake up and try to take back that which has been ours all along: our rights to self determination.****** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 13:21:01 -0600 From: "NFA National Board" Subject: [Fwd: NFA Announcement re Webmaster] The NFA National Board has previously made this announcement to the provincial executives and directors and is pleased to now also make this announcement to NFA members. Please welcome Brent Mossop, Manitoba Director, as the Webmaster for the National Firearms Association. Brent has been an instructor at Assiniboine College in Computer Systems Technology for several years and previously worked in the IT field for 13 years. Among other accomplishments, he is a Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer, Microsoft Certified Professional plus Internet, New Technology Certified Independant Professional, Cisco Certified Network Analyst, Comptia A+ certification and is a Gold Member of the HTML Writers Guild. He has been designing and writing websites and website graphics for quite a few years. Wolverine Supplies website is an example of his work. We are very pleased to welcome Brent as NFA's Webmaster and also as publisher of our monthly publication. Not only is Brent using his considerable expertise to take on two important roles in the NFA, he is doing both of them as a volunteer. Brent firmly believes that these positions should be volunteer and that the National Firearms Association should put its funds to better use by using them to further the goals of the NFA. If anyone has any articles or cover photographs they would like to contribute to the magazine, or ideas for inclusion in either the magazine or the website, please forward them to Brent at spiritw@escape.ca. We are very pleased to make this announcement and to welcome Brent in these new roles. We look forward to a very productive relationship. Linda Toews Spokesperson for the NFA National Board ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 16:37:49 -0600 From: Bruce Mills Subject: My Letter to the Moncton Times & Transcript [Just submitted, not yet printed] - -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re:Is gun registry worth the $700M spent so far? Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 17:44:51 -0500 From: Bruce Mills To: editor@timestranscript.com I must call into question some of the statistics and figures that are attributed to Ms. Cukier in your article "Is gun registry worth the $700M spent so far?", Monday, February 25, 2002. The article claims that "200 drivers are killed sitting at their steering wheels every year". Are we to take that as a literal statement - that somehow 200 people spontaneously expire while they just happen to be sitting at their steering wheels? Is this a typo or other error, considering that there have been over 2,000 traffic fatalities every year since 1981? Ms. Cukier's claims that "spending $700 million over the past 10 years" on the firearms registry is also suspect, since the legislation was only enacted in December 1995, which is effectively 6 years, not 10. Claiming that the "process began" in 1989 is an outright fallacy; that may have been when Ms. Cukier started her misguided crusade, but it certainly wasn't when the Firearms Act was passed into law. She plays fast and loose with the data yet again in her comments about the reduction of the use of "hunting rifles or shotguns" in homicides. In 1989 there was a total of 657 homicides, 218 of which involved firearms, which equal 33%. In 1999 there were a total of 536 homicides, 165 of which involved firearms, which equals 30%. Even though the number of homicides have dropped, the rate at which firearms are used has stayed fairly constant. If, as Ms. Cukier asserts, people are using "hunting rifles or shotguns" less frequently, that must mean that they are using handguns more frequently. As you point out in the article, the legal ownership, transportation, and use of handguns has been severely restricted since 1934. We only know about $700 million spent so far, since the Federal Government refuses to divulge the complete figures under the guise of "cabinet secrecy". Over $100 million per year to keep track of Uncle George's duck gun seems a little excessive to me. Why don't they have the courage of their convictions and state plainly how much this has cost, in total, instead of playing stupid games? As for the Gallup Poll that "shows" there is 70% support (down from 80% in past years, I might add) for "gun control", these polls have been shown to be flawed, yet the gun-control lobby keeps trotting out these fallacious numbers. These polls ask a very simplistic question about a very complex situation; naturally, you are going to get a simplistic answer. Drs. Mauser and Buckner conducted a study on just this, which revealed that as more "trade offs" were introduced into the question, such as high costs, or taking police off the street to perform administrative duties, support for "gun control" dropped significantly. Is it any wonder that the law abiding gun owners of Canada are up in arms over the antics of the anti-gun lobby, when they play fast and loose with these statistics, or outright lie? Bruce Hamilton, Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 16:39:26 -0600 From: "Bob Lickacz" Subject: I JUST KNEW IT!!!! >A ROBBER who tried to hold up a take-away restaurant at gunpoint fled >empty handed when staff pelted him with chicken drumsticks. I just knew that Billy Barnes (Billy was the rotten little kid who pointed a LOADED CHICKEN FINGER at a classmate) would turn out OK. Billy thwarted a robbery!! GOOD ON YA BILLY Bob Lickacz NFA Edmonton ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 16:41:20 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: CAUCHON: "gun registration is something fantastic" HOUSE OF COMMONS DEBATES Wednesday, February 27, 2002 Unedited copy - not official until printed ORAL QUESTION PERIOD * * * Mr. Jim Pankiw (Saskatoon--Humboldt, PC/DR): Mr. Speaker, since 1994 the Liberal government has been harassing law-abiding firearms owners, but it has been business as usual for criminals. Numbers from the Canadian Centre for Justice statistics show that since the Liberal firearms registration act was passed in 1994 use of a firearm in murders has increased by 3% and in attempted murders by almost 20%. Hundreds of millions of dollars have been spent to target law-abiding citizens. Should the government not correct this mistake and direct future resources toward targeting criminals? Hon. Martin Cauchon (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I am proud to live in a society which is indeed very secure compared with many countries in the world. As well, we have had the courage in the past to make choices about security in our society and the firearm registration system is one good choice that we have made as Liberals on this side of the House and I stand for. Lately we have proceeded with some out-sourcing in order to keep offering the Canadian population very good services. We believe in what we are doing and at the end of the day it is in order to make that sure that we will keep protecting our society. ¸ (1450) Mr. Jim Pankiw (Saskatoon--Humboldt, PC/DR): Guess what, Mr. Speaker. Surprise, surprise, criminals do not register their firearms. Statistics clearly show that since the Liberals introduced the Firearms Act the trend of guns used in violent crimes is going up, not down. Would the minister not agree that it is time to get tough on criminals who use firearms, instead of spending hundreds of millions of dollars to harass sports shooters, hunters and farmers? Hon. Martin Cauchon (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, very simply put, if the hon. member would read the budget and Speech from the Throne he would see that we have invested a lot of money in order to make sure that we will keep protecting our society. We proceeded as well lately with the enactment of new legislation in order to keep protecting our society. Of course gun registration is something fantastic that we will keep working on in order to keep protecting Canadian society which has made the difference as a government. * * * ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 22:09:55 -0600 From: Michael Ackermann Subject: "coup" I am deleting all "coup" related posts from my computer without reading them. I will wait until this blows over, and hope we still have an NFA to fight for us. I hope we do. If not, I will continue the fight as an individual, realizing the Statists have won a major battle. No offense to anyone, but I don't find reading this material a good use of my time. - -- M.J. Ackermann, MD (Mike) President, St. Mary's Shooters Association Box 3, RR 1, 4132 Sonora Rd. Sherbrooke, NS Canada B0J 3C0 902-522-2172 My email: mikeack@ns.sympatico.ca SMSA URL: www3.ns.sympatico.ca/mikeack/SMSA_Web_Page.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 22:09:56 -0600 From: LawrenceAWehren@aol.com Subject: Re: GUN CLUBS IN NEW BRUNSWICK? Would anyone have a recommendation for Gun clubs in New Brunswick? I have a line on a Black Powder group that I am going to join, but I have regular rifles as well that I want to shoot so I have to go to a range that allows smokeless powder guns as well. I live about 30 miles north of Moncton and 10 miles west of Rexton. thanks, Larry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 22:18:57 -0600 From: Lee Jasper Subject: Just obey the law It was said in CFD V4 #571: >Sask. Wildlife Federation Resolution #7 which called for >passive active civil disobedience by the Sask. Wildlife >Federation failed to receive approval . . . This action was >seen by many as being possibly illegal. Perhaps, Joe, part of the problem was in the misnaming of the Resolution. It could have been more aptly called 'acting in the full, true spirit of the firearms legislation' - talk of civil disobedience among Canadians is a no-no. For example, it was intended (and promised by the federal government) that all experienced gun owners, as of Dec. 1998 would be exempt from all CFSC requirements and fully grandfathered into PALs. So demand it! (A. Rock, Feb. 1995). Your Saskatchewan colleagues are also being stiffed with a very unnecessary CFSC/CRFSC challenge exam. By comparison, your gun Buds in MB and QC were fully grandfathered (by their provincial governments) into PALs via previous Hunter Ed courses. Where was your government while this was happening? Additionally, even though the provincial governments in BC, ON and NS also failed to act in the interests of their law abiding, firearm owning citizens prior to 1998, these gun owners have been provided with the luxury of an albeit somewhat psychometrically fraudulent CFO'S free oral, telephone test to circumvent the CFSC. Simply demand that your CFO produce one. Better still get your provincial government to demand that your CFO provide experienced SK gun owners with a free Prior Learning Assessment means to getting PALs. So how many of your SWF folks are willing to pursue this? These things are lawful and are required under the law. Simply demand that your CFO obey the law. What the heck, the feds have given us 10 different licencing standards across Canada - when the law calls for one! When it comes to the last phase of Bill C-68, there is one last wrinkle. That is to fully comply with the exact letter of the law in respect to registration. I am sure you have read the frame only, or some other facsimile, registration discussions. I am sure the specifics of this will get fleshed-out to owners satisfaction as time goes on. I hear of gun owner initiated, free, on line, frame only or some other facsimile, registration blitzes. Give the feds all the 'dance on the head of a pin' registration specs - but it won't uniquely identify any guns of substance. The beauty of this is that 'law abiding' gun owners will not be faced with 'failing to register' charges and the resultant criminal convictions - and all the hassles that could entail. I respect that there may be a few stalwarts who insist on being 'hung-out' to dry by refusing to register, and for these brave folk I salute you. I wish you well with your Charter arguments in Court, and while you pursue legal redress for the return of your guns. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 22:22:07 -0600 From: Paul Chicoine Subject: Oh, and by the way Oh, and by the way From: "hogan myster" Subject: NFA Wrote: >My concerns with the public airing of the NFAs "dirty laundry", was the >great laughs being provided to the CFC and the "Antis". I had hoped it could - -snip- >That being said however, I understand that communications to the NFA >executive or the National President, Jim Hinter, (He is still president >until he resigns, or some form of "impeachment" teakes place. That is my >take on the bylaws, anyways) is quite difficult as people have been denied >access to e-mail accounts at the office...or perhaps even denied access to >the office. - -snip- Actually, Mr. J seems alive and well judging from his posts to other firearm groups. He still signs off as Prez of the NFA but uses a non NFA address. I'm not sure how long this has been going on but it pre-dates the vigerous activity. Try these links and if you wanna ask him questions it appears he's using this addy: The group is can.talk.guns located here: http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&group=can.talk.guns He is posting under the addy of "Canadian Firearm Owner" from this email: str8shooter@nospamshaw.ca You typically remove the "nospam" portion of the email to reply. Here is the link (which is long) to one of his recent posts: http://groups.google.com/groups?q=+%22Canadian+Firearm+Owner%22+group:can.ta lk.guns&hl=en&selm=yJSa8.36227%24Cg5.2048011%40news1.calgary.shaw.ca&rnum=2 I hear jhinter@shaw.ca also works. Anyway folks there you have it. ===== ____________ Paul Chicoine Illegitimi non Carborundum Non Assumsit Contract, All Rights Reserved, Without Prejudice. _________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 22:23:10 -0600 From: Michael Ackermann Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V4 #574 Keith wrote: "I think they made it up. The number of car accident related deaths is about 1300-1400 a year in Ontario alone." In 1997, according to Stats Can, there were 3026 deaths attributable to motor vehicle accidents in all of Canada. - -- M.J. Ackermann, MD (Mike) President, St. Mary's Shooters Association Box 3, RR 1, 4132 Sonora Rd. Sherbrooke, NS Canada B0J 3C0 902-522-2172 My email: mikeack@ns.sympatico.ca SMSA URL: www3.ns.sympatico.ca/mikeack/SMSA_Web_Page.htm ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V4 #576 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:acardin33@shaw.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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