From: Cdn-Firearms Digest [owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca] Sent: Monday, 04 March, 2002 12:23 To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V4 #587 Cdn-Firearms Digest Monday, March 4 2002 Volume 04 : Number 587 In this issue: "Humour" from the CFC? BATF on the Carpet Re: CILA Re: Liberal MP's Want Liars For Public Employees Re: Bloc position on C-68, V4 #584 Realtor finds firearms Ten Good Reasons To Ban Guns (plain text) Stephen Harper Gunsmith Suggests Dell Computer Is Funding Gun Control PRESIDENT OF WPG POLICE ASSOC: AGAINST GUN REGISTRATION ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 20:34:41 -0600 From: Bruce Mills Subject: "Humour" from the CFC? I was looking for something on the CFC webpage, when I cam across the following. Somehow, I don't think that our employees making disparaging comments about "gun nuts" is very funny. ================================================================= What is "On Target"? http://www.cfc-ccaf.gc.ca/safety&education/ontarget/ontar01_en.html Canadian Firearms Safety Education & Awareness Program (CFSE&A) On Target, the flagship publication of the CFSE&A Program, has one purpose: strengthening our partnership. Partnership is cornerstone to the Safety Education and Awareness Program. It extends to our newsletter. This quarterly publication is produced for the firearms community responsible for the co-ordination and delivery of the Canadian Firearms Safety Course having an interest in improving firearms safety in Canada. Articles, viewpoints, questions, photographs and anecdotes are encouraged and welcomed. ================================================================= http://www.cfc-ccaf.gc.ca/safety%26education/ontarget/ontar17_en.asp#crossing6 On Target No. 17 ­ SUMMER, 2001 You Just Might Be A Gun Nut, If ... … you ever clean a gun that hasn’t been shot in the week since you cleaned it last. … you bought a barrel of Garand clips for the Garand you’re going to buy. … you ever bought two brands of the same weight and type of bullet, just to see if one "shot better." … you ever had to explain "It’s not the SAME gun, it’s a different VARIANT." … you have ever had your local gun store call your house and ask "We are doing a stock order, did you need anything?" … you do all metric-to-English unit conversions starting with the phrase, "Well thirty caliber is .308 inches and 7.62mm, so…" … your alarm clock actually screams, "Ready on the RIGHT! Ready on the LEFT! Ready on the FIRING LINE! LOAD! COMMENCE FIRE!" … you’ve ever tried to quote the ingredients list off a bottle of Action Scrubber to your eye doctor while explaining why your contact lens melted. … when you get ready for bed, you’re still picking grains of H335 out of your hair, toothbrush and underwear. … you’ve ever bragged about the size of the groups your semi-auto throws with its empty brass. … you notice that every time you look at a digital clock it reads 1:17, 2:19, 2:20, 2:22, 2:23, 2:43, 2:57, 3:03, 3:08, 3:57, 4:04, 4:16, 4:44, 4:58, 5:56 or any of about 50-odd calibre’s you instantly recognize. On Target ISSN 1480-9125 ================================================================= Are you amused yet? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 20:49:00 -0600 From: Joe Gingrich Subject: BATF on the Carpet Updates and Alerts BATF Oversight Hearing Re-cap On Thursday, the House Appropriations Committee Subcommittee on Treasury, Postal Service and General Government held its oversight hearing on the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (BATF). In the witness chairs were Under Secretary of the Treasury for Enforcement Jimmy Gurulé and BATF Director Bradley Buckles. In addition to many other budget and management issues, subcommittee members questioned Buckles on two gun issues. First, pro-gun Rep. John E. Sununu (R-N.H.) asked Buckles about the recent BATF regulations requiring import permits for non-immigrant aliens to bring guns into the U.S. Noting that his congressional district in New Hampshire includes large areas of hunting land popular with both U.S. and Canadian residents, Rep. Sununu began by asking Buckles what consultation BATF had with hunting and sporting groups, outfitters, and others affected by the new rules. Buckles replied that before September 11, a hunting license from any state was all that was required to bring a gun into the U.S., and that in tightening the requirement, BATF thought it had reached out to affected parties, but that problems had turned up, and that "perhaps we hadn’t reached out the way we thought we had." He also noted that the regulation was also published as a proposed rule so that full opportunity would be provided for public comment. Rep. Sununu noted confusing and conflicting answers that Canadian shooters had received from the U.S. Customs Service about the new rules, and asked Buckles whether Customs had been consulted, and what guidance had been given to Customs for use at border crossings, and what steps could be taken to make the regulations more functional for Canadian visitors. Buckles answered that BATF was "ramping up" its Imports Branch to provide quick processing of permits. He also said he had notified Customs of the new rules, but that upon re-reading his letter to Customs, he thought that it may not have made clear the urgency of the impending changes and may have sounded too routine. Under Secretary Gurulé said that since it was his responsibility to oversee both agencies, he would make sure to sit down with Buckles and Commissioner of Customs Raymond Bonner to ensure that the rules were implemented more smoothly. Rep. Sununu continued by asking whether the current Form 6, designed for permanent commercial importation of guns, was really the best process for temporary visitors. Buckles responded that since their "intent was not to hinder sportsmen" they were working on the process "on an expedited basis," and in response to a follow-up question, suggested it might be possible to complete the paperwork and related background checks at the border. Later, Rep. Don Sherwood (R-Pa.) noted that, as a hunter, he has had no problem taking guns to England, South Africa, and Argentina—all countries with much more restrictive gun laws than ours—and said he hoped that if they could have simple processes for visitors, we could, too. Rep. Sherwood also asked what would happen if Customs confiscated someone's gun at the border due to confusion or lack of information or proper paperwork—could the visitor retrieve it before leaving the U.S.? Buckles said he wasn’t aware of anyone having guns confiscated at this point. Members of the Committee will continue the oversight process as the BATF budget request makes its way through the process. Follow-up inquiries from the initial hearing are expected to include a detailed examination of BATF’s failures to provide the nation’s firearm retailers with the new Form 4473 by the date on which it was mandated to use. Posted: 3/1/2002 3:58:43 PM ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 20:51:23 -0600 From: Bruce Mills Subject: Re: CILA Yannis Marine wrote: > > This is from the first page of CSSA Bulletin FEB 2002. > Yes CSSA and CILA have merged in one, > Yanni > Title: > "Canadian Shooting Sports Association and the Canadian Institute for > Legislative Action merge! What about those memberships that CILA was selling last year? I know they were more of a donation/fund raiser, but does that mean that I am now a member of CSSA? It might be nice if the CSSA put some of this info up on their website - - it doesn't look like it has been updated since Oct 2001. Bruce Hamilton Ontario Moderator: me too! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 03:20:21 -0600 From: "John Poulin" Subject: Re: Liberal MP's Want Liars For Public Employees From: Rick Lowe > The comments of Liberal MP Dennis Mills and the tacit agreement by the rest of > the Liberal Party go a long way towards explaining how this country is run. Well said Rick. Appeasing the dictator or dictatorship is how you get points ahead and climb the ladder of success. What's the truth got to do with it? Nothing! JP Poulin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 11:44:51 -0600 From: "Murray Bell" Subject: Re: Bloc position on C-68, V4 #584 Jules Sobrian says Pierrette Venne (Bloc MP, Saint Hubert) seemed to be on "a very similar wavelength to Wendy." No question of that: it was she who said "All men are linked in violence to Marc Lepine," which became a rallying cry to feminists, if not the vast majority of women, across the country. Gun control soon became a cause for the safety and security of women against men, all of whom were to be considered predatory. So, whatever Mizz Venne happened to say in favour of grandfathering experienced hunters and shooters in the new licencing system is heavily overbalanced by that malicious maxim. She caused a great deal of damage to the public square. Cordially, Murray ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 11:45:03 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Realtor finds firearms PUBLICATION: The Toronto Star DATE: 2002.03.04 SECTION: NEWS PAGE: VI02 SOURCE: Toronto Star BYLINE: Philip Mascoll STAFF REPORTER - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- Realtor finds firearms - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- were seized on the weekend from a Scarborough home and business that has been empty since a murder-suicide last November. A real estate agent trying to sell the property at 4177 Lawrence Ave. E., between Morningside Ave. and Kingston Rd., made the discovery Saturday and officers of the newly formed Operation Gun Stop task force were called in, police said yesterday. The bungalow and florist's shop at the site had been locked up since last year, when the reclusive son of the owner killed himself after shooting his mother in the head. Nobody from the task force was available for comment, and officers at 42 Division could not say whether the were from the now-dead owners or were cached there by someone else. They also could not say how many or what type of were involved. The real estate agent, who was preparing the property for sale, discovered the after prying open what turned out to be a false wall in a closet. Neighbours said officers swarmed the red brick home next to the boarded-up florist shop and storehouse. In the November incident, a relative called police when no one had answered the phone for several days. Officers who entered the bungalow found the bodies of Serena Calderone, 78, in one bedroom and her son Philip, 46, in another, a handgun near his side. There was no sign of police at the scene yesterday, but two blood-stainedmattresses were leaning against the back wall of the shop. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 11:45:01 -0600 From: "John Flanigan" Subject: Ten Good Reasons To Ban Guns (plain text) http://www.federalobserver.com/archive.php?aid=1875 Ten Good Reasons To Ban Guns a satire by Bruce Gold 1.) Guns are used in self-defense over 2 million times a year. However, this makes the attempted crime a "non-event," which necessarily complicates the Police investigation. Without civilian ownership of guns, these Police investigations would not have been compromised. Civilians should leave crime prevention to the Police, who are properly equipped to investigate following the crime's completion. 2.) Some .004 % (4/1000 of 1%) of guns are used in crime each year. This is way too high. All guns should be banned 3.) Guns are unnecessary. In 98% of civilian gun defenses, no shot is fired. If you are not going to fire a shot, you clearly don't need a gun. This proves that the guns are unnecessary. Banning guns will prevent these unnecessary defenses. 4.) Guns cause criminal migration. In tough gun-law Washington, D.C., violent crime rates are very high. This high crime rate is caused by the migration of criminals from gun havens like Virginia. This migration is caused by the criminal's cowardly avoidance of armed householders and concealed-carry civilians. This criminal migration is detrimental to helpless unarmed citizens in no-gun areas and must be stopped. Guns should be banned everywhere. 5.) Most gun crimes are committed by inner city gangs and drug dealers. These relatively small and geographically restricted groups consistently commit the majority of gun crimes, which usually peak as turf wars erupt over Drug War changes. The best way to prevent this is by denying guns to all law abiding people everywhere. 6.) No woman needs to protect herself from rape, assault or murder. The Police will protect them by investigating the crime after the fact. Remember, Police paperwork is all the protection anyone really needs. 7.) Guns owners are disrespectful of authority. Good citizens should completely rely on the authorities. A failure to do so is an invariable sign of improper and overly independent attitudes. Failure to completely and absolutely trust and depend on the authorities is excessive democracy and sends a bad message to children. 8.) Guns owners engaging in self-defense are taking the law into their own hands. This is wrong. Only the Police and Criminals have the right to take the law into their own hands. It should be kept out of the hands of citizens. 9.) Children and young people should remain ignorant about guns. Real guns and real gun knowledge dissipate the fantasies created by violent video games and TV. Ignorance, once lost, can never be restored and needs to be protected. Not to mention the lost sales of all the violent movies, TV shows, video games, etc! 10.)Guns reduce people's reliance on the Police and Government. This fosters a mistaken belief in "rights". No person has the right to question authority. No person should be less than 100% dependent on authority. This is fundamental to social order. Banning guns will help to establish the Order the authorities want. This is good. Gun Control - Simple Solutions for Simple Minds Copyright (c) 1999-2002 by The ESCAPE Co. All rights reserved ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 11:45:01 -0600 From: "W. Metner" Subject: Stephen Harper I stand corrected. My apologies to all for the mistake. I received a copy of the "questionnaire" he sent out. I thought it was cleverly worded in order to come up with a pro gun control result. Sort of "are you still beating your wife?" type of wording. I remember taking a lot of ribbing from my co-workers on how even Reform was pro gun control and I had delivered campaign literature for the guy. Regards Bill Metner > From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) > Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca > Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:26:44 -0600 > To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca > Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V4 #582 > >> >>> Was this a provincial riding? If so/not, what party was Mr Harper >>> representing? He certainly wasn't a Reform MP when Kimmie was justice >>> minister. >>> >>> Mark >> >> Calgary West. He was the Reform MP. At least someone with that name was. I >> assume it's the same guy. The bill was C-17 as I recall. > > He was _not_ a Reform MP during Kimmie's time. > > I presume that you are referring to his term when C-68 was being debated. > > During that time, as he has explained, he was personally against it but > voted in favour during second reading as that was the desire of the majority > of his constituents as he understood it. Doing so was entirely in keeping > with the policy of the Reform Party - representing the wishes of one's > constituents rather than the wishes of the MP or Party. It is still so in > the Alliance. Would-be candidates must sign for that on their nomination > papers. > > He voted _against_ it on third reading, however. It appears that his > constituents became better educated in between and changed their collective > minds, or at least more firearms owners spoke up. > > Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 11:44:51 -0600 From: Jim Pook Subject: Gunsmith Suggests Dell Computer Is Funding Gun Control From: http://www.newsbytes.com/news/02/174860.html Gunsmith Suggests Dell Computer Is Funding Gun Control A spat between Dell Computer [NASDAQ:DELL] and some gun owners continued to rage today, despite a formal mea culpa from the computer maker's chairman. In a message to supporters, Jack Weigand, owner of Pennsylvania-based Weigand Combat Handguns Inc., claimed today that Dell Computer is "connected" to Handgun Control Inc., a lobbying group that changed its name to The Brady Campaign last June. Representatives of Dell Computer and the Brady Campaign refuted the statement. Weigand touched off a firestorm Tuesday when he posted a notice at his site and in several gun forums, describing how Dell initially canceled his order for an Inspiron notebook computer earlier this month after his company's name triggered an automated order screening system put in place by Dell following the Sept. 11 attacks on America. In a statement released Wednesday, Chairman Michael Dell confirmed that the computer maker does "carefully review customer orders for prohibited destinations and activities" and red-flagged Weigand's order because of the word "combat" in his company name. But, according to Dell, the computer company made a mistake in its handling of the cancellation of Weigand's purchase. Although Dell has offered to ship him the computer at no charge, Weigand said he refused. "I know every gun owner in America will appreciate my not accepting the computer I was offered," said Weigand in the message, noting that Dell is listed as a merchant at a Web site entitled the Handgun Control, Inc. Online Shopping Mall. "This is a handgun control support site. Please come to your own conclusions," said Weigand. According to a banner at the HCI online shopping mall, clicking links in a directory of dozens of online retailers and making purchases there raises money for the gun control organization. Dell spokesperson Cathie Hargett said the computer company was not aware of the HCI online mall, but she confirmed that the company participates in a number of online affiliate programs "on both sides of issues." According to Hargett, Dell "has not taken a position on the issue of gun control. Not in our sponsorships, not in our giving, and not in our public policy." A spokesperson for The Brady Campaign told Newsbytes today that the organization did not authorize the creation of the HCI online mall, nor has the lobbying group ever received any funds from the site. According to Amy Stilwell, communications director, the Brady Campaign has also never received donations directly from Dell Computer or Michael Dell. The site hosting the HCI mall, Progressivefunds.com, "hosts online virtual shopping malls on behalf of affiliating organizations" according to its terms and conditions page. The site is registered to David Cole of Hallsville, Texas, according to domain records. Cole was not immediately available for comment. Rather than put the dispute with Weigand to rest, Dell's apology for the order snafu has raised the hackles of some civil libertarians. "Michael Dell's statement is a more grievous attack on civil liberties than the original it tries to apologize for," said John Young, operator of a freedom-of-information site known as Cryptome.org, in a posting to an Internet mailing list today. According to Young, it's inappropriate for a company to screen domestic customers in the way Dell has admitted doing "unless the company has made those considerations publicly known, and law substantiates the restrictions. "Patriotism and information warfare are insufficient reasons," said Young. According to Weigand, he has been asked to appear on "quite a few" talk radio programs today as a result of the run-in with Dell. "I am receiving (an) overwhelming positive response from my family, the firearms community ... I thank each and everyone who has responded to this issue and taking the time to care about our 2nd Amendment rights," said Weigand. The Handgun Control, Inc. Online Shopping Mall is at http://www.progressivefunds.com/hci/ . Weigand's site is http://www.jackweigand.com . Reported by Newsbytes, http://www.newsbytes.com . 13:46 CST Reposted 14:40 CST (20020228/WIRES TOP, ONLINE, PC, LEGAL, BUSINESS/ANTITERROR/PHOTO) © 2002 The Washington Post Company Jim Pook Burnaby, BC Canada jim@anglefish.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:22:46 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: PRESIDENT OF WPG POLICE ASSOC: AGAINST GUN REGISTRATION PUBLICATION: The Winnipeg Sun DATE: 2002.03.03 SECTION: News PAGE: 6 BYLINE: Bob Holliday - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- POLICE TELL IT LIKE IT IS ON CRIME'S FRONT LINES - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- As a homicide investigator Loren Schinkel was never one to mince words. He believed in law and order and putting the bad guys in prison. As president of the Winnipeg Police Association, Schinkel has taken a harder line in his argument that the pendulum has swung too far. Instead of protecting society from the predators, our justice system has made society an easier prey for felons. His union's members, Schinkel claims, are "pissed off" with a revolving door system that doesn't seem to care about the victims of crime. A system that puts the rights of criminals ahead of the rights of people to live peaceful, law-abiding lives. "There is no fear (of police) anymore," Schinkel claimed Friday night as about 300 friends and fellow officers gathered for the retirement party of Grant (Butch) Eakin. Eakin was described by Schinkel and other speakers as a "street cop's street cop," feared by Winnipeg's criminal element. "We need more street cops like Butch Eakin," Schinkel said to loud applause. "You knew you were safe when Butchy had your back," one officer said. Eakin turned in his badge a couple of months ago to begin a a life in the private sector. AGAINST GUN REGISTRATION In June 2000, a jury convicted Eakin of assaulting 24-year-old Nkule Guma during the investigation of a noise complaint at a Pembina Highway apartment block Feb. 13, 1998. Eakin was fined $1,000 and placed on paid leave. He is appealing his conviction. Guma has a criminal record not related to the incident. Schinkel also opposes Bill 62 which calls for compulsory registration of all guns. "Did it do Const. (Mike) Templeton any good?" asked Schinkel in reference to the shooting of the RCMP officer 10 days ago as he approached a stolen car. The shooting has sparked an all-out manhunt for suspects Daniel Jonathon Courchene, 25, a known member of the Manitoba Warriors street gang, and Michael Gary Regamy, 20. "Shooting a police officer shows (criminals) have no fear of us," said Schinkel, who also is against lenient sentences for violent crimes. Schinkel's argument that the justice system is wishy-washy was driven home Friday when two men were sentenced to six and three years respectively for a pair of convenience store armed robberies last December. During both robberies, store clerks -- working for near-minimum wage -- were forced, at the point of a 9-mm Beretta handgun -- to lie on the floor. These sentences fly in the face of a 1995 Criminal Code amendment which calls for a minimum three-year sentence consecutive to any other for using a in the commission of a crime. In this case, the men should have received six years each, plus time for the robberies. Once again, society was the big loser in the justice system lottery. ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V4 #587 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:acardin33@shaw.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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