From: Cdn-Firearms Digest [owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca] Sent: Wednesday, 06 March, 2002 11:39 To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V4 #591 Cdn-Firearms Digest Wednesday, March 6 2002 Volume 04 : Number 591 In this issue: REPORTED ON AERO NEWS NETWORK MARCH 4, 2002 PETAs charity status questioned Bagging victories for Sportsman DES ERREURS, DES ERREURS, ENCORE DES ERREURS Editor's Comment (The registry missed the target.) Re: Wendy's quote, V4 #589 More on stat's Re: Statistics Cdn-Firearms Digest V4 #589 Re: CILA Unlicensed person can not borrow... The Terrifying UN... re: HCI ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 18:29:59 -0600 From: Bruce Mills Subject: REPORTED ON AERO NEWS NETWORK MARCH 4, 2002 From: "Guy Van Brabant" <4vanb@sympatico.ca> To: "Bruce Mills" Hi Bruce Please submit to the digest. I have tried to subscribe a number of times with no success. Thanx Guy ALPA Says to Let Gun Issue Play Out Union Discounts Administration Spin Captain Duane Woerth, president of the nation's largest and oldest pilot union, responded on Monday to public statements that Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta and Homeland Security Director Tom Ridge made against pilots being allowed to keep firearms in the cockpit ("ALPA Wants Guns on Planes -- in Cockpits," 03-04-02, ANN) to defend against terrorists: "The Bush Administration's most recently stated opposition to arming pilots is no surprise to us. From Sept. 25, the day that ALPA came out in favor of arming pilots, the Administration came out against it. In fact, it came out against a number of aviation security enhancements, including the federalization of airport screeners and federal economic relief for airlines -- yet we've seen Congress approve these measures after extensive study of the situation. "In the same manner, Congress has paved the way for a voluntary program that allows highly trained pilots to carry firearms in the cockpit as a last line of defense against the kind of terrorism that this nation encountered on September 11, and ALPA stands ready to work with Congress, the new Transportation Security Administration and the DOT to overcome any obstacles and put a reliable program into effect as soon as possible. To that end, ALPA has filed a formal petition for rulemaking with the DOT seeking new rules that would allow pilots to have firearms in the cockpit under specific conditions, and we hope to see action on this rule in the near future. "We urge the Bush Administration to put personal opinions aside and thoroughly review this issue by assessing the 6,700 public comments the DOT received and conducting feasibility studies with law enforcement and other experts in the field. These steps must be taken and the regulatory process must be given an opportunity to work. "The Administration's preference for stun guns over firearms in the cockpit and its claims that firearms pose undue danger to the aircraft and passengers can only be attributed to naiveté or a lack of accurate information. First, manufacturer data and law enforcement experience demonstrate that the small cockpit environment and the unreliability of stun guns make their use inappropriate. To use stun guns effectively requires the target to be within a specific distance range that may not be possible within the confines of an airline cockpit. Even police officers require two additional personnel with firearms as backup before stun guns are used. Second, because pilots would engage a firearm only in the direst of circumstances as a last line of defense, the concerns about stray bullets or the unlikely event of aircraft depressurization is irrelevant. "A large majority of airline pilots and the American public views firearms in the cockpit as a necessary deterrent to terrorism, recognizing that it is but one in a myriad of security measures that must be implemented to protect our nation. And as long as cockpit doors have to be opened for pilots to gain access to meal service and lavatories, there is a risk that a terrorist can slip through security and get into the cockpit. We need to give pilots a viable weapon to deal with this very real threat." FMI: www.alpa.org - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 18:37:55 -0600 From: Joe Gingrich Subject: PETAs charity status questioned PETA's charity status questioned By Matthew Cella THE WASHINGTON TIMES An organization that tracks crimes against business interests filed a complaint yesterday asking the Internal Revenue Service to revoke the tax-exempt status of People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. The 12-page complaint, filed by Ron Arnold, executive vice president of the nonprofit Center for the Defense of Free Enterprise (CDFE), argues that the Norfolk-based animal rights group should be stripped of its charitable status. The complaint says PETA supports domestic terrorist groups, steals trade secrets and assaults business executives. "PETA is required by law to be operated exclusively for the charitable purpose of prevention of cruelty to animals," the complaint says. "PETA's pattern of encouraging unlawful activity goes back more than 10 years. Its activities are completely inconsistent with its allegedly charitable purpose." The complaint accuses PETA of acting as a "conduit for information" for the Animal Liberation Front (ALF), which was singled out in congressional testimony by the FBI regarding domestic terrorism last month as "one of the most active extremist elements in the United States." It also claims PETA funds were used in the legal defense funds of one ALF member who pleaded guilty in 1995 to destroying a University of Michigan laboratory conducting animal tests. The complaint recounts several episodes where PETA members were arrested during protests for stunts ranging from slashing leather clothes in a New York store to setting a fire on the steps of the U.S. Capitol to protest government plans to help the pork industry. "I don't think the average person realizes PETA's a tax-exempt organization," said Alan Gottlieb, president of the Bellevue, Wash.-based CDFE. He said the real offense is that U.S. taxpayers are subsidizing PETA's activities by permitting PETA donors to deduct contributions as charitable contributions on their income tax returns. PETA founder and Executive Director Ingrid Newkirk yesterday characterized the complaint as "one half-truth linked to another half-truth with a dollop of misstatement." "It didn't look like anything new," she said. "Some of it is highly offensive." Miss Newkirk said the issue continues to be one of free speech. "It's not a crime to say what you think," she said. "Otherwise we would have been locked up." But she acknowledged that the loss of tax-exempt status could be devastating for her organization, which drew more than $13 million in donations for the tax year ending July 31, 2001. "Anytime an organization loses its tax-exempt status, there are some donors who will give less or not at all," she said, adding that was the center's true goal. Miss Newkirk also accused the center of preying on post-September 11 fears about domestic terrorism. During congressional testimony before the Committee on Resources subcommittee on forests and forest health probing the increasing threat of ecoterrorism on national forest lands, PETA general counsel Jeffrey S. Kerr acknowledged the organization's "sometimes creative and theatrical means of communicating our message in a tabloid era." But Mr. Kerr testified that "PETA has never engaged in violence or threats of violence against any person or entity, no matter how heinous their animal abuse." The chairman of that subcommittee, Rep. Scott McInnis, Colorado Republican, yesterday sent a letter to Miss Newkirk independently of the center's complaint to the IRS asking her to clarify PETA's relationship with the Earth Liberation Front (ELF), ALF's sister organization. "As a nonprofit organization with tax-exempt privileges and the incumbent public policy obligations that status entails, PETA has a responsibility to explain the full extent of its involvement with and contributions to environmental terror groups like ELF and ALF," Mr. McInnis wrote. An IRS spokesman yesterday couldn't confirm that the center's complaint had been received but said auditors do conduct investigations that are based on information received from outside sources. Still, he said, federal tax law would preclude him from confirming or denying whether an investigation into PETA's tax-exempt status was under way. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 18:37:56 -0600 From: Joe Gingrich Subject: Bagging victories for Sportsman If they can change things down there why can't we in Canada? To view the entire article, go to http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A38429-2002Mar4.html Bagging Victories for Sportsmen By Matthew Mosk By the time an orange dawn had broken over the open prairie on Maryland's Eastern Shore, Sen. John C. Astle had already spent an hour in the frosty grass with his buddy Ladd Johnson, scanning the wispy clouds for any hint of a Canada goose. With the morning chill sinking in, Astle and Johnson crouched into a cramped wooden blind, camouflaged by a field of soft yellow grain, and got to jawing about politics. On a morning just like this one, the two had first turned their frustrations about state restrictions on hunters into thoughts of a Maryland Legislative Sportsmen's Caucus. Now, between sightings of distant flocks, the two hunters marveled at how their fledgling caucus had grown. "Last year, the group was just getting off the ground," said Astle (D-Anne Arundel), the caucus's chairman. "This year, we're really getting involved." Since the start of this year's General Assembly session, the sportsmen's caucus has expanded to include 74 of the legislature's 188 members. In the session's first two months, its members have waded into debates over shooting deer and bears and over a centuries-old ban on Sunday hunting -- with some success. In coming weeks, they plan to challenge animal rights groups over a bill that would outlaw steel-jawed leg-hold traps. At the same time, the 12-year-old Congressional Sportsmen's Foundation in Washington has been at work, trying to broaden the reach of hunting interests into several other state capitals. Beyond Maryland, it has aided outdoor enthusiasts in forming caucuses in Georgia and Colorado. This week, organizers will meet with hunters in the Virginia legislature to discuss a Richmond branch. The migration from Capitol Hill to the states is not accidental. To a growing degree, laws that regulate hunters and wildlife are being made on the state level. For several years, leaders of the sportsmen's group say, animal rights activists have had the luxury of influencing state lawmakers with little organized opposition. "Relative to the animal rights activists, we've been totally disorganized," said James Farmer, a Charles County lawyer who chairs the Maryland Legislative Sportsmen's Foundation, a nonprofit group that works with the caucus. "That's been the problem. Sportsmen have had no organization to let the public and the policymakers know about all the good that they do." To catch up, Farmer's foundation has started an aggressive fundraising effort, which included a Feb. 21 dinner that paired donors -- many of whom were Annapolis lobbyists -- and lawmakers at the same table. The effort skirted state ethics laws that prevent lawmakers from raising money during the legislature's 90-day session because the group is classified as a charity, not a political action group. Organizers received a written opinion from the legislature's ethics counsel approving the dinner. Establishing a sportsmen's caucus in Maryland was not an easy sell. The General Assembly has passed some of the most restrictive gun legislation in the nation. Support for the group, caucus leaders say, has hinged on the caucus's pledge to bridge hunting interest with those of other outdoor-minded groups, such as bird-watchers, horseback riders and white-water rafters. "We wanted this to be sportsmen-related, not gun-related," Del. Kenneth D. Schisler (R-Talbot) said. "We've made a real effort to be broad-minded." Unlike the congressional branch, whose leaders embrace a bond with the National Rifle Association and say they don't typically work with environmental groups, the Maryland group has tried to shift to the left, offering support, for instance, to the land preservation projects of Gov. Parris N. Glendening (D) and to environmentalists' efforts to clean up the Chesapeake Bay. And their stance on gun issues is softer than their congressional counterparts', Farmer said. "Most of the citizens of Maryland agree, as I do, that there must be reasonable regulation of firearms," he said. "We strongly believe in the right to bear arms, but no freedom is absolute." This grasp for balance has appealed to House Speaker Casper R. Taylor Jr. (D-Allegany), who has tried to walk a similar line between liberal colleagues in House leadership and conservative constituents back home. "A lot of sportsmen's issues have a common thread with conservationists," Taylor said. "That voice has been missing in Annapolis, and it should not be." Lobbyists for animal rights groups, though, are skeptical that the caucus has strayed far from its core interests in hunting and guns, and they doubt the caucus will gain enough traction to exert meaningful influence. "I just see this as an additional means of doing their political organizing," said Wayne Pacelle, a spokesman for the Humane Society of the United States, a group that is actively lobbying in Maryland. "The battle lines have been drawn on these issues for a long time now, and even if a lot of members join the caucus, presumably so they can put it in letters to their constituents, I think they will still vote their conscience on the important issues," he said. Animal rights supporters have maintained their core support from suburban lawmakers during recent votes in the House of Delegates. But that was not enough to defeat a bill, approved 102 to 32, that for the first time since 1953 would allow hunters with a permit to kill black bears that have threatened someone's life or property. Nor were the animal rights interests able to stop the House from overturning a long-held ban on Sunday hunting and permitting a one-day Sunday hunt at the start of the deer-hunting season in the fall. Both measures still need the support of the Senate and Glendening to become law. Glendening has not indicated if he will sign or veto the bills, his spokesman said. Sherry Crumley, a Buchanan, Va., woman whose company makes camouflage clothing for hunters, said she hopes to see a sportsmen's caucus exerting influence in a similar manner in Richmond, even though hunters have had little trouble finding support there. "You never know who is lurking out there who would like to curtail a tradition that is a way of life for many of us," Crumley said. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 18:37:58 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: DES ERREURS, DES ERREURS, ENCORE DES ERREURS http://www.garrybreitkreuz.com/publications/erreurs-erreurs.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 18:38:18 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Editor's Comment (The registry missed the target.) PUBLICATION: The Calgary Sun DATE: 2002.03.05 SECTION: Editorial/opinion PAGE: 14 COLUMN: Letters to the editor MP GARY is doing the Canadian taxpayers a great service. ("Lock, shock and barrel," Mike Jenkinson, March 4.) He is uncovering the fact that the $700 million spent to date plus the recent $300 million contract to a private firm to administer the shopping list of names and addresses of all gun owners, has done little or nothing to save lives, or solve crime, in Canada. That adds up to $1 billion to register my uncle's duck gun, compared to the $7 million a year the feds put into cancer research. Compare the number of people you know who have died from cancer to the number of people you know who have died from gun shot wounds. Paul Ryan Editor's Comment (The registry missed the target.) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 23:17:35 -0600 From: "Murray Bell" Subject: Re: Wendy's quote, V4 #589 Christopher di Armani wants the source of this (not Wendy's, but Pierrette Venne's) quote: "All men are linked in violence to Marc Lepine." Sorry, I don't have a precise reference, but the Montreal Gazette would be a good start. It has quoted her several times over the years and has even published an article of hers. Whether the quote was initially spoken and later rendered in print, or the reverse, I can't recall. Come to think of it, maybe Wendy has used it on the Coalition's web site, so it wouldn't hurt to try it, too. Best of luck on your article. Regards, Murray ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 23:17:35 -0600 From: Lee Jasper Subject: More on stat's Re the Breitkreuz ATIA registration stat's: So we know - >I believe that this is only the number of packages [1,455,607] >that have been "mailed out" to [1,726,341] licenced firearms >owners, not the number that have been received back. >The other column of this table indicates how many of these >"mailed out" packages have been sent back to the CFC by Canada >Post as "return to sender". [38,629] I wonder how many of these folks simply did not update their addresses with the CFR? You would think if the CFR dug out these figures they would have provided data on the number of 'returned envelopes' to the CFR. (Still not very useful statistics since an 'envelope' typically contains multiple registrations and most folks only register keepers and not their throw-aways). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 23:18:02 -0600 From: wrpa Subject: Re: Statistics Cdn-Firearms Digest V4 #589 Lee Jasper wrote: > >'A' indicates that there are 1,959,250 licenced firearm owners >(not including minors) in Canada as of Nov. 17/01 and the CFR >claims in 'B' to have received 1,455,607 registration envelopes >by Feb. 27/02. > >Does this only appear to be a 74.3 per cent compliance rate >among Canada's gun owners? > Have you excluded Internet registrations? Most people I know from the gun club I belong to used the online registration. Now most didn't register ALL their guns so you could say there is even lower compliance so far. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 23:18:03 -0600 From: "Yannis Marine" Subject: Re: CILA Mark, Do you own any handguns? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:38:17 -0600 From: Sorensens Subject: Unlicensed person can not borrow... Some one asked "Am I able to 'borrow' his firearm while hunting with him (noting that we may be separated from each other at various times), without getting licensed? " This is a no brainer! If you are required to possess a POL or PAL to borrow a firearm, and you are required to possess PAL to purchase a firearm, and you are required to have either a POL or PAL to possess ammunition, what do you think you can do with NO LICENSE? The only thing you can do without a license, is to handle and shoot a firearm with the direct hands on supervision of a licensed person. That person must be able to reach over and take control of the firearm. You may have that disputed by some officials, but I would argue it in front of a judge if I was charged. Dennis Sorensen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:38:18 -0600 From: Rick Lowe Subject: The Terrifying UN... Jaded Junker said: > This stinks!!! ...just like why are we shooting at people in lands > across the ocean when all the terrorists came from within???? ...let in Ummmm... because some people think it's not nice for groups of people to get together and fly airplanes into buildings and kill thousands of innocent people? I wasn't aware that any of those involved in the September 11 mass murder were born and raised in North America... correct me if I'm wrong here. Which is not to say that there isn't an element of hypocrisy in this belated reaction to terrorism, but I think it is a step forward and sets a standard that ALL nations will be hard to ignore in future. I kind of doubt NorAid is still raising money "for the boys" in Boston since 9-11. It's a start. > into our thinking ...it's no wonder many of you think that by complying > to government C-68 you're somehow going to be exempt from what the UN > has planned for us westerners ... all you who registered are now great > targets! I am perpetually amused at those who live in terror of the UN and see black helicopters flying about at night. As somebody who has actually served on a UN mission in a gen-yew-whine shooting war, it is apparent to me that anybody this frightened of the UN has clearly never served on a UN mission. Given that the UN couldn't even organize regular resupply of food and clothing to troops - and didn't have the guts to order us to go sort the Croats out when they were slaughtering people in the Medak Pocket right in plain view of us, I rather doubt you are going to see the dreaded "blue helmets" patrolling the streets of North America anytime soon. The UN is partially well meaning people working their guts out, and partially cold calculating bureaucrates like our very own Robert Fowler who are only interested in lining their pockets and building little empires around themselves within the UN. And those bureaucrates spend as much time backbiting each other as they do anything else. So I don't think they can pose a common front to "ruling North America" when they can't even agree on the most obvious of things. Furthermore, before I believe that pile of BS about the dreaded UN, somebody is going to have to convince me that world leaders Chretien, Clinton, Yeltsin, Blair, Mugabe, etc and those who succeed them would spend their whole lives seeking to be the king of the heap in their country, yet suddenly decide to hand over rule and authority to the UN. Convince us of how people like Chretien would hand over power to the UN before you ask us to believe this drivel. > ...and I bet you couldn't even hit one if it were 2' in front > of you! Considering some of the people I know who for various reasons, right or wrong, have registered and are nationally ranked shooters, I'll take that bet of yours any day you want to show up at a range anywhere in Alberta or Ontario. In fact, I'll sweeten the deal by betting that the people I have in mind can kick your ass pretty quickly even on their worst day. > ...let's start dealing with reality! Excellent idea. Why don't you start out and set the example by putting forward a rational explanation of how somebody like the present leaders of Canada, the US, or Russia would willingly hand over control and rule of their countries to the UN. I'm dying to hear that one! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:38:18 -0600 From: Barry Snow Subject: re: HCI You have posted the Anti-Handgun Control Inc. web site. You will find a different attitude at the actual HCI site. http://www.bradycampaign.org/ >From: pinkelTriangle >Subject: Re: Gunsmith Suggests Dell Computer Is Funding Gun Control > >This is all great work, but to even out the concept, if U >http://www.handguncontrol.net/ of [ Handgun Control, Inc. - A Total Stranger To >The Truth ] you will find that they are, or seem to be somewhat on our side. >Other than the Handgun Control, Inc. logo that has changed owners from >time to time, this site has all the facts that sites like mine or > snip > > ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V4 #591 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:acardin33@shaw.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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