From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V4 #612 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Wednesday, March 13 2002 Volume 04 : Number 612 In this issue: 3.2 million people experienced unmet health care needs in 2000/01 Criminal Lobby UPDATE: NUMBER OF GUNS TURNED-IN Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V4 #610 H&R Block H&R Block Heads Objections Re: Call in the NRA ATF/CFO and gun laws Re: Easy Gun System Re: Call in the NRA Re: Call in the NRA www.digitalpersona.com Re: ATF/CFO and gun laws Re: Night poachers kill elk, deer on south Island Re: ATF/CFO and gun laws 8 round revolver? Message to Grant Obst, President, Canadian Police Association ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:36:11 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: 3.2 million people experienced unmet health care needs in 2000/01 http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/020313/d020313a.htm The Daily. Wednesday, March 13, 2002 Changes in unmet health care needs 2000/01 One in 8 people reported having unmet health care needs in 2000/01, up from 1 in 24 in 1994/95, according to an analysis of data from the new Canadian Community Health Survey (CCHS) and the first three cycles of the National Population Health Survey (NPHS). Preliminary CCHS data show that an estimated 12.5% of Canadians aged 12 or older - about 3.2 million people - experienced unmet health care needs in 2000/01, nearly double the proportion of 6.3% in 1998/99. This statistically significant jump is a continuation of a slow-but-steady rise in self-reported unmet health care needs, from 4.2% in 1994/95 to 5.1% in 1996/97 and to 6.3% in 1998/99. Several factors may explain the recent substantial increase in reported unmet needs. These may be related to the structures and processes within the health care system, or to characteristics of the population, including individuals' perceptions of the state of health care. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:45:39 -0600 From: "rossj." Subject: Criminal Lobby Over the last two days, Mike Harris (CFRA spokesthiungy) did excellent shows on violence, our justice system, the Police. I called in and related several instances to him, which surprisingly he knew of, and asked if I had read "More guns less crime". He is clearly in touch with what is going on, and supportive of our rights to defend ourselves. I spoke of the Criminal Lobby, and knew he would ask what it was...I was right he asked. I responded that it was every politician, Chief of Police, single purpose group who would attempt to take away or rights to self defence, and trample those right under the charter which keep us free. People that do that are clearly in support of terror and criminal activitry, as they make it easier for those two categories to ply their trade. He agreed, and it appears that he has used this term several times over the last two days while I listened to his program. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:47:14 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: UPDATE: NUMBER OF GUNS TURNED-IN NUMBER OF GUNS SURRENDERED TO RCMP SINCE JAN '95 = 58,742 Documented as of: December 18, 2001 Click Here for more information: http://www.garrybreitkreuz.com/publications/firearmssurrendered.htm NUMBER OF GUNS TURNED-IN TO MUNICIPAL POLICE FORCES = 7,776 Documented as of: July 13, 2001 Click Here for more information: http://www.garrybreitkreuz.com/publications/Turn-InSurveyJuly-13-2001.pdf NUMBER OF GUNS TURNED-IN TO FEDERAL CFOs = 1,337 Documented as of: February 12, 2002 Click Here for more information: http://www.garrybreitkreuz.com/publications/firearmsturnedCFO.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:48:57 -0600 From: "Tom Bryant" Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V4 #610 H &R Block thinks that it has made the right move. They forget that millions of people that own firearms do not belong to the NRA though they identify with the NRA's program and count on the NRA to protect their interests. We have the same thing here in Canada with the NFA. I think a letter writting campaign would reveal just where the REAL support is. As with much of the anti gun agenda they can appear to have broad support but in truth it is a "paper tiger" with the appearence of support with do depth. The actual numbers of committed anti gunners is very small. They use the media etc. to make themselves look much more influential than they are. Does anyone have an e-mail addy for where letters of complaint can be sent? Letters to BOTH U.S. and Canada offices should be undertaken. Yes I know that the Canadian H&R did not do this but as any union rep can tell you SOLIDARITY is the key. Several million REAL people telling H&R Block that they will not use their services because of their decision based on prejudice will have more impact than all the anti gun warm and fuzzy media drivel. Lets spread the word. > > Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 23:42:12 -0600 > From: "e.m. acount" > Subject: H&R Block does a bad thing > > According to a press release from gunindustrywatch.org - which appears to be > affiliated with the Million Mom March, which merged with Handgun Control > Inc., which was transformed into the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, > which is tied Sarah Brady, who is married to a man who is hooked to a > respirator - tax preparer H&R Block (U.S.A.) has decided to snub gun owners > in favour of the gun-banning authoritarian schmucks. > > This is a link to the press release: > > http://www.gunindustrywatch.org/index.cfm?C=15&F=1&M=0 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:50:04 -0600 From: "Tom Bryant" Subject: H&R Block Ok folks here is a link to contact H&R headquarters. GIVE 'EM HELL! http://www.hrblock.com/about/contact/index.html The format that I am using is simply including the link to the anti gun press release and then telling them I will not be using their services as a result of their decision. I am sure that my wife will send a similar note as will my two sons. Time to let them know who REALLY represent a big chunk of their business. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:51:32 -0600 From: "Tom Bryant" Subject: H&R Block Heads The link to H&R is a bit convoluted but well worth it. Here are the three letters that went out from my family. Easy to do as after sending one you just have to click BACK and you have the submit form ready to send another letter if you have someone else in the family that wants to write. As a result of your decision as outlined in the attached link I have decided that I will not use your services this year. http://www.gunindustrywatch.org/index.cfm?C=15&F=1&M=0 I will recommend to every firearm owner that I know (well over 300 in four gun clubs) to take similar action. The NRA represents many millions of firearm owners beyond the several million that are actual members. You have allowed several hundred strident extremists to promote their prejudice against MILLIONS of existing and potential clients. Here is a simple formula for your accountants to apply: Firearm owner = Taxpayer = Client Before the decision to drop your support for the NRA the formula would have been: 30,000,000 = 30,000,0000 = 30,000,000 It is now closer to: 0 = 0 = 0 To whom it may concern; I have just finished reading a press release from Gun Industry Watch that tell us that your organization has been pressured into dropping its association with the NRA. As a result I will not be dealing with your company ever again. I cannot support a company that would so easily be swayed to support such obvious prejudice against its own clients. This is my first year to have to fill out tax forms. As a student and a first time taxpayer I considered H&R to be my first choice for a firm to help me. As a firearm owner however I see that your company has chosen to work against my interests by supporting Gun Industry Watch. I would be foolish to give you my support or my business. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:54:45 -0600 From: Barry Snow Subject: Objections >Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 23:39:25 -0600 >From: Christopher di Armani >Subject: Re: Easy Gun System > >At 02:59 PM 2002-03-12 -0600, you wrote: > >>>All firearms owners would be issued with two smart cards, exactly the same, >>>duplicates, Photo, good for ten years, one thumb print, chip inside. In case >>>of loss. Your possession of a type, or level would be in it. >> > >I for one would not submit to fingerprinting and chips on cards. > >*I* have done nothing wrong. *I* do not need to be kept track of like >murderers, rapists, child molesters . > >Leave the fingerprinting and chip implants for the deviants and > snip One of the most objectionable parts of this fiasco, to me, is the ability to buy your way out of jail. Will registrations or license renewals be refused if the fee is not paid? If so, then Canada has become the corrupt type of government that allows some to bypass a criminal record by virtue of paying a set fee. Someone posted here quite some time ago that they had refused to pay for what they did not need, did not want and otherwise have complied with all the BS. Sorry I have forgotten who that was but how did that resolve? (Alan?) thx, Barry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:56:10 -0600 From: Jim Powlesland Subject: Re: Call in the NRA On Tue, 12 Mar 2002, Al Dorans wrote: > As of early January and due to lack of funds, CILA merged with the > Canadian Shooting Sports Association (CSSA, formerly OHA). > [The] CILA and the NFA had still not agreed "in principle" to > cooperate in fighting C-68. Over the past 6 six years both the CILA and NFA have amply demonstrated that they have been incapable of mounting any sort of meaningful resistance to C-68. Now both organizations are in disarray, if not disintegrating. Perhaps it's time that we ask the NRA to set up a branch office in Canada. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:02:03 -0600 From: "Brian Stephens" Subject: ATF/CFO and gun laws I need to vent....... I am a PPC Shooter and I shoot in the US a lot.. Although I didn't like the new rules that ATF threw at us I followed them and I now have in my possession 2 Form 6a's from the ATF (of the 26 I requested they have said they will issue the others as I need them).... But now my government(CFO Ontario) won't issue me a short term ATT to go to the border without documentation from the MPCPA that I am a member and that I've been invited to compete at these events... And they want me to get a short term ATT's as I need them a process that takes several attempts....They also will no longer issue long term ATT's to the Border unless the ATF issues a letter that I am allowed to compete in the US..... They suggested that if I don't like it I can talk to Wally Bauman the only problem is that his mailbox is full... What does the CFO Ontario care about if the US has already issued me the permit... His responsibility is firearms in Ontario not Michigan not New York... So much for working with the firearms community... Thanks BW "Bear" Stephens info@reloadersbench.com http://www.ReloadersBench.com BDX Bullets, Starline Brass, Dillon Reloading Presses and so much more ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:31:44 -0600 From: Gordon Hitchen Subject: Re: Easy Gun System This sounds even more intrusive than C68. Fingerprints, chips? Are special uniforms next? Gordon Hitchen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:49:04 -0600 From: Bill McGarry Subject: Re: Call in the NRA Jim your suggestion is timely, in hind sight perhaps we should have extended the invite long ago. Listening to the "criminal lobby" constantly site the American situation appears to have caused legitimate Canadian groups to distance themselves from seeking assistance from the one truely effective "Gun lobby"... in light of recent developements, its time to call our cousins to the south for re-inforcements. Jim Powlesland wrote: > > On Tue, 12 Mar 2002, Al Dorans wrote: > > > As of early January and due to lack of funds, CILA merged with the > > Canadian Shooting Sports Association (CSSA, formerly OHA). > > > [The] CILA and the NFA had still not agreed "in principle" to > > cooperate in fighting C-68. > > Over the past 6 six years both the CILA and NFA have amply demonstrated > that they have been incapable of mounting any sort of meaningful > resistance to C-68. Now both organizations are in disarray, if not > disintegrating. > > Perhaps it's time that we ask the NRA to set up a branch office in > Canada. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:50:28 -0600 From: "Trigger Mortis" Subject: Re: Call in the NRA > > [The] CILA and the NFA had still not agreed "in principle" to > > cooperate in fighting C-68. > >Over the past 6 six years both the CILA and NFA have amply demonstrated >that they have been incapable of mounting any sort of meaningful >resistance to C-68. Now both organizations are in disarray, if not >disintegrating. > >Perhaps it's time that we ask the NRA to set up a branch office in >Canada. ============== I disagree that both or either organization has failed to oppose the legislation effectively. I'm thinking of buying a life membership in the NRA, but not because I want them to start working in Canada. I figure a strong NRA in America is good for gun owners in Canada. It's in my interest to support them. I like the NFA approach in Canada. Canadian interests would become marginalized if we were a branch office of the NRA. Remember the infighting in the NRA a few years ago? Infighting is not unusual in any large organization. Look how strong they are now. Our NFA is still strong and capable. In a few months, we'll be looking back at the infighting with some relief and we'll still be strong. I'll bet there is plenty of infighting in the CSSA, but we just don't hear about it, because they don't have an open forum for members to voice opinions, member to member. I like the NRA, but I want Canadian people in a Canadian organization, to represent me in the movement for fair firearms laws in Canada. I expect the NFA and the CSSA to work in cooperation with, but not subordinate to, the NRA and other foreign gun owner groups. Bye. Al. SI VIS PACEM, PARA BELLUM _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:58:01 -0600 From: lisa_simps0n@yahoo.com Subject: www.digitalpersona.com From: Harry Gilbert [mailto:harrygilbert@prodigy.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 6:41 AM Subject: Re: www.digitalpersona.com Maybe I'm a little paranoid, but as a believer in the law of unintended consequences, I hesitate to support any technology that can (and will)be eventually turned against individual freedom and privacy. Soon, if digital fingerprint technology spreads, your activities will be monitored and recorded even more than they are now. And I don't even want to get started with Microsoft's Windows XP, which requires you to register each copy to an individual machine, and re-register it if you change major components or move to another PC. That crapola went out with IBM mainframe software in the 1970's. And Microsoft has dropped support for Java in XP, and is aggressively pushing its "Passport" online identity service. All your personal information, from passwords to credit card information, stored on Microsoft's notoriously security-porous servers, where they can exploit the information for commercial gain. The whole thing is part of Microsoft's .NET plan to eventually stop "selling" software, and instead force you to buy subscriptions to use the software from their servers. All your work products can be monitored, and you will have no control over the upgrades and features set changes. Stop paying the monthly or yearly subscription fee, and all your work is not longer usable because you have no access to the applications. Good luck. Technology is a double-edged sword, and I don't rush to embrace everything new before thinking through the results. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:02:27 -0600 From: "Trigger Mortis" Subject: Re: ATF/CFO and gun laws >They suggested that if I don't >like it I can talk to Wally Bauman the only problem is that his mailbox is >full... > >What does the CFO Ontario care about if the US has already issued me the >permit... His responsibility is firearms in Ontario not Michigan not New >York... So much for working with the firearms community... > >Thanks >BW "Bear" Stephens ================ So, they said to talk to someone who is not available? Sounds like the typical CFO Ontario approach of prevarication and BS. I, too, have heard their words of how they want to work with us. They say that they will provide us with better service than the RCMP would. In their quest for better service to the public and shooters, the Ontario CFO has revoked my instructors certificate for tardy payment of the annual insurance premium. It is pure coincidence that I am an outspoken critic of their stupid, deliberately obtuse and incompetent behavior. Bye. Al. SI VIS PACEM, PARA BELLUM _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:03:33 -0600 From: Rick Lowe Subject: Re: Night poachers kill elk, deer on south Island > PUBLICATION: Times Colonist (Victoria) > Night poachers killed 13 elk and two pregnant deer on southern Vancouver > Island in the past three months, according to the B.C. Ministry of Water, > Land and Air Protection. ... > Future regulated opportunities in the Lake Cowichan area may be > jeopardized by the "indiscriminate, unlawful incidents," according > to the release. > > The Duncan conservation officer service is asking for assistance from anyone > with evidence of illegal to call their nearest conservation > officer or the toll-free Observe, Record, Report number at 1-800-663-WILD > (9453). I think all this stuff about poachers, "rogue" hunters, etc and so forth is a bit wide of the mark for the intent of this list, but as most of us are also hunters, what the heck... It is rather amusing to read all of this in light of the situation with CO's in BC. First, the CO service in BC was already severely understaffed in British Columbia - out of sight is out of the taxpayer mind. I have called their 1-800 number about three times in the last five years - including one time when I told them I actually had video of the offenders committing the offense. Not a single CO ever showed up at my door to talk to me or retrieve the video. I DID, however, get a call from one CO to advise me they had taken the license number I provided, tracked down the owner, phoned them, and "gave them a verbal warning". I'm partially irritated by the indifference and laxness of some of the CO's we have, but mostly upset that the main reason for such poor levels of enforcement is insufficient manning levels of the CO ranks. Not to mention they have all the relatively new environmental monitoring stuff heaped on their plates. However, on top of all of this, it is curious that the Times Colonist (situated right in the provincial capitol of BC) didn't see fit to mention that the new Liberal Government's budget is slashing the ranks of the already decimated CO service. So here they are, calling for people to notify Conservation Officers on the one hand, while there aren't enough CO's to respond in the first place. And let's not even TALK about enough CO's to have them actually doing proactive patrolling to prevent the crime in the first place. It's enough to make you weep... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:09:34 -0600 From: Bruce Mills Subject: Re: ATF/CFO and gun laws Brian Stephens wrote: > > I need to vent....... > > I am a PPC Shooter and I shoot in the US a lot.. Although I didn't like the > new rules that ATF threw at us I followed them and I now have in my > possession 2 Form 6a's from the ATF (of the 26 I requested they have said > they will issue the others as I need them).... But now my government(CFO > Ontario) won't issue me a short term ATT to go to the border without > documentation from the MPCPA that I am a member and that I've been invited > to compete at these events... And they want me to get a short term ATT's as > I need them a process that takes several attempts....They also will no > longer issue long term ATT's to the Border unless the ATF issues a letter > that I am allowed to compete in the US..... They suggested that if I don't > like it I can talk to Wally Bauman the only problem is that his mailbox is > full... > > What does the CFO Ontario care about if the US has already issued me the > permit... His responsibility is firearms in Ontario not Michigan not New > York... So much for working with the firearms community... Seems like the Ontario CPFO is dancing to the tune of the BATF... Who is Wally Bauman supposed to be? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:06:01 -0600 From: Jaded Junker Subject: 8 round revolver? >>>>clipped>>>> "...Up ahead in the Pontiac, Daniel Lamer sat waiting in the passenger seat, revolver in hand. ....>>>>clipped>>>> ...The officer had started making his way over the car when Mr. Lamer suddenly turned around, drew a gun and opened fire on the police. He fired eight rounds. " hmmm? What kind of "revolver" other than a some .22s, is capable of 8 rounds? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:12:50 -0600 From: Al Dorans Subject: Message to Grant Obst, President, Canadian Police Association Mr. Grant Obst, President Canadian Police Association Dear Mr. Obst, March 13, 2002 You may recall that I spoke with you personally at some length at the Western Summit Conference in Saskatoon, January, 2001. Your address included how firearms owners were increasingly losing faith in Canada's police officers. Shooters perceived on-again-off-again police support for or against C-68 as a leverage tool for bigger police budgets at the expense of Canada's responsible firearms owners who were being used as pawns in this process. During that address, you mentioned that you did not understand why gun owners were being less and less supportive of the police. Subsequently, I sent you periodic batches of emails (numbering about 50 in total) verifying those realities. Recently, Dr. Michael Ackerman from Nova Scotia wrote the enclosed letter to you and shared it with me. On behalf of Canada's 5-7 million firearms owners, I write in support of Dr. Ackermann's message. Consequently, I have enclosed a copy of the Canadian Firearms Action Plan (CFAC) (Cdn-Firearms Digest, Tuesday, March 12, 2002, Volume 04 : Number 610) to assist you in understanding how gun owners feel. Help restore public trust in the police by opposing the needless, useless, costly and wasteful Bill C-68 that will do nothing to reduce crime and save lives. Sincerely, Professor Al Dorans Director, RFC Ottawa Chairman, FED UP Canada ..................................................................................... Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 00:12:45 -0400 From: Reply-To: mikeack@ns.sympatico.ca Organization: St. Mary's Shooters Association X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en]C-SYMPA (Win95; I) To: Al Dorans Subject: Re: RFC Ottawa: Gun Owners and the Whiffenpoof Song Dear Mr. Obst, You must be joking, right? After the CPA refused to act on its own recommendations to insist the government take a long hard look at the utility and cost effectiveness of Bill C-68, but instead took a $200 million dollar pay off in exchange for its cooperation with the Billion Dollar Boondoggle, NOW you are begging the public to support your plea for tougher laws against the violent? Where were you when the law abiding citizens of Canada needed your support against this expensive intrusion into our harmless lifestyles? Where was your concern for the Charter Rights and Freedoms that are trampled by C-68, and its sister laws C-36 and C-42? Where was your concern for the wastage of a billion dollars used creating criminals out of thin air while rapists, murderers and thugs all get a cake walk in the 'Justice' system? Why do you insist on a policy of victim disarmament and helplessness? It is plainly obvious that all you and the CPA are concerned about is building your own little political empire and you have so divorced yourselves from true police ethics and justice that you wouldn't recognize them if you saw them. So don't act all shocked when the rest of the Responsible Firearms Community send you similar notes to this one. Remember, I told you this was going to happen in my last letter. When you and the CPA start showing us by word AND BY DEED that you are on the side of the harmless, decent folk who make up the overwhelming majority of firearm users in Canada, then I will be willing to sign your petition. Not before. Once again, I have appended Peel's Nine Principles for your further education. - -- M.J. Ackermann, MD (Mike) President, St. Mary's Shooters Association Box 3, RR 1, 4132 Sonora Rd. Sherbrooke, NS Canada B0J 3C0 902-522-2172 My email: mikeack@ns.sympatico.ca SMSA URL: www3.ns.sympatico.ca/mikeack/SMSA_Web_Page.htm ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V4 #612 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:acardin33@shaw.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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